Mass shooting at Old National Bank in Downtown Louisville

[Ukalum99]

I mean honestly, there's no point in even having a discussion with some people when it comes to guns.

Agreed.

TBH, I don't find it particularly useful to discuss action steps to reduce gun violence with people who aren't at least familiar with guns and who, preferably, have at least some experience shooting.

Other than bolt action rifles, basically EVERY gun legally sold in America can kill dozens of people in seconds. There is no magic to an AR. It may look scarier to people without exposure to guns but it isn't some magically devastating unicorn of a firearm. It is a light, handy rifle that most people can shoot relatively well. That's why it is the most popular firearm platform in America.

"I don't find it particularly useful to discuss action steps to reduce gun violence with people who aren't at least familiar with guns"

This is the exact sentiment that leads to absolutely nothing ever getting done after this. This entitled "I know more about guns than you do" attitude and refusal to find middle ground is asenine. A deranged 25 year old just bought an AR 15 like he was buying a gallon of milk and you see no issue with that? No required training, no mental health screening, no waiting period? I am a republican but this entitled attitude pisses me off. Lets just arm eveyone and it will be the ****ing wild west.

 

[TCurtis75]

So you've ruled out that reasonable/logical suggestion.

This is why nothing ever happens, and what was alluded to above with the "give an inch and they try to take a mile" comment.

I simply said a lot can happen in 5 years no more no less. The idea has merits but a 5 year window is way too long when mental health is involved. Maybe it could be 2 years for certain purchases. Every single time for others. In my opinion, the checks should be every time you purchase since at any point something could set you off. I also think there should be mandatory retesting after the purchase. Maybe that’s every 5 years.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Unfortunately there isn’t a 100% successful way to know that someone is going to commit a crime before they do it.

We can get pretty close. Then we could just lock up people that are statistically likely to commit crimes and only violate their rights, rather than violating everyone’s rights.

 

[TCurtis75]

We can get pretty close. Then we could just lock up people that are statistically likely to commit crimes and only violate their rights, rather than violating everyone’s rights.

Background checks, waiting periods, testing, etc is not violating anyone’s rights. No where in the Bill of rights does it say immediate access to arms.

 

[UK_Dallas]

I think most of them intend to die during their act.

Since you didn't want to answer my question from last night, which is perfectly fine:

You can find poll after poll that says young adults between 18-29 have very different thoughts(negative) about the US compared to what older generations have. There are also millions of examples on social media.

The point is - these kids/young adults are being told at some point, likely college but some high school that the United States is not a good country and that sticks with them. If they are also hearing that at home it only exacerbates that thought.

Combine that^ with constantly being told the world is going to end in X amount of years along with all the other negative news in social media...is it any wonder that age group is having severe mental issues? Add in prescriptions that have random side effects and you've created a ticking time bomb.

So I ask, why not teach them early how great America is before you start in with the negative side? Maybe learning those things will keep those feelings of hopelessness and depression of living in a terrible country from developing and keep them from breaking.

You all might laugh but this is a huge part of the divisiveness and resulting mental issues in this country. It is time to restore American Pride along with civic pride.

 

[BleedBlueCats21]

Just telling you that eliminating high capacity mags doesn't slow you down much if at all. Unless you're running full auto.

Okay, if you say so. How about this then; would your standard police officer (or armed guard/teacher) prefer to encounter a would-be mass shooter armed with a pistol, or an Ar-15 with a high capacity magazine?

There are reasons these people choose AR-15s to carry out the shootings beyond just the fact that they look cool/scary. I realize that banning/restricting them is not going to stop mass shootings from occurring altogether, but I do not understand the rationale for continuing to allow just about anyone to own one.

 

[TCurtis75]

Okay, if you say so. How about this then; would your standard police officer (or armed guard/teacher) prefer to encounter a would-be mass shooter armed with a pistol, or an Ar-15 with a high capacity magazine?

There are reasons these people choose AR-15s to carry out the shootings beyond just the fact that they look cool/scary. I realize that banning/restricting them is not going to stop mass shootings from occurring altogether, but I do not understand the rationale for continuing to allow just about anyone to own one.

The Uvalde Police have already let their preference be known.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Background checks, waiting periods, testing, etc is not violating anyone’s rights. No where in the Bill of rights does it say immediate access to arms.

Would you then agree if we require background checks, waiting periods, testing, etc. before someone is allowed to speak freely or vote, no one’s rights are being violated?

 

[Hank Camacho]

Okay, if you say so. How about this then; would your standard police officer (or armed guard/teacher) prefer to encounter a would-be mass shooter armed with a pistol, or an Ar-15 with a high capacity magazine?

How about this then: if you are a law-abiding citizen whose home is invaded, would you rather have an AR with a 30 round magazine or single shot 410?

Or, how about this then: if you are at your office and a nutcase with an AR starts wandering the halls and shooting people, would you rather have a pistol with a high capacity magazine or a 6 shot revolver?

 

[SmoothRunner32]

 

[I am stupid]

A lot can happen in five years to one’s mental health.

True. Just like the KY ccdw if something happens that you would lose your license they can show up at your doorstep and take it. With my suggestion they don't even have to show up. Just deny you the purchase of an NFA weapon. You'd likely still pass the standard background check though.

 

[TCurtis75]

Would you then agree if we require background checks, waiting periods, testing, etc. before someone is allowed to speak freely or vote, no one’s rights are being violated?

Apples to oranges. When was the last time 6 people died in minutes because someone spoke freely or voted?

 

[PTI (pti)]

Since you didn't want to answer my question from last night, which is perfectly fine:

You can find poll after poll that says young adults between 18-29 have very different thoughts(negative) about the US compared to what older generations have. There are also millions of examples on social media.

The point is - these kids/young adults are being told at some point, likely college but some high school that the United States is not a good country and that sticks with them. If they are also hearing that at home it only exacerbates that thought.

Combine that^ with constantly being told the world is going to end in X amount of years along with all the other negative news in social media...is it any wonder that age group is having severe mental issues? Add in prescriptions that have random side effects and you've created a ticking time bomb.

So I ask, why not teach them early how great America is before you start in with the negative side? Maybe learning those things will keep those feelings of hopelessness and depression of living in a terrible country from developing and keep them from breaking.

You all might laugh but this is a huge part of the divisiveness and resulting mental issues in this country. It is time to restore American Pride along with civic pride.

You are literally advocating for brainwashing kids with propaganda. WTF is wrong with you?


Just tell people the truth. How about that?

 

[BleedBlueCats21]

How about this then: if you are a law-abiding citizen whose home is invaded, would you rather have an AR with a 30 round magazine or single shot 410?

You could have a pistol, Hank. After all, you all seem to be saying there's no real difference between handguns and ARs.

 

[TCurtis75]

True. Just like the KY ccdw if something happens that you would lose your license they can show up at your doorstep and take it. With my suggestion they don't even have to show up. Just deny you the purchase of an NFA weapon. You'd likely still pass the standard background check though.

That does nothing for already purchased guns. Those will require ongoing testing etc. how frequently I don’t know. It’s one thing to stop a “crazy” person from buying. We also have to figure out a way to prevent them from using guns they already own of they “snap”. Ongoing/random testing would help I think.

 

[MatteoV25]

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/21pdf/20-843_7j80.pdf

Respectfully, I’m not reading 135 pages worth of a Supreme Court decision. If you want to, you can summarize it

 

[MatteoV25]

We can get pretty close. Then we could just lock up people that are statistically likely to commit crimes and only violate their rights, rather than violating everyone’s rights.

Putting people in jail for crimes that they did not commit just so that it’s not as hard for you to get the gun that you like is quite literally the most idiotic and unserious thing that I’ve ever heard.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Apples to oranges. When was the last time 6 people died in minutes because someone spoke freely or voted?

It’s not apples to oranges at all. Uncontrolled speech and stupid votes cause far more damage to this country than guns ever will.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Putting people in jail for crimes that they did not commit just so that it’s not as hard for you to get the gun that you like is quite literally the most idiotic and unserious thing that I’ve ever heard.

No, violating the rights of tens/hundreds of millions of people because you’re scared, rather than actually tailoring a solution that would address the problem, is far more idiotic.

 

[UK_Dallas]

You are literally advocating for brainwashing kids with propaganda. WTF is wrong with you?


Just tell people the truth. How about that?

Are there not classes in HS and college specifically dedicated to all the negative things about the United States? Would you consider that brainwashing as well?

Is there a harm in teaching kids the positives? Had I said you can only teach the positives then you'd be right.

 

[PTI (pti)]

No, you idiot. There are NOT classes specifically dedicated to all the negative things about the US, despite whatever snowflake bs you read on the internet.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

The ar-15 is vilified because it looks different. Handguns kill far more people per year. The ar-15 is no more of a "killing machine" than a 9mm or .38ACP. Do some reading up JD. People really need to educate themselves on guns and not just parrot mass media(on both sides).

Military say the AR is easier to successfully shoot people than a handgun for the average person.

 

[TCurtis75]

No, you idiot. There are NOT classes specifically dedicated to all the negative things about the US, despite whatever snowflake bs you read on the internet.

To be fair, people that think like he does would say those classes are History 1, History 2, etc. Why do you think they are trying to avoid teaching things like slavery while using buzzwords and phrases like CRT to describe it.

 

[MatteoV25]

No, violating the rights of tens/hundreds of millions of people because you’re scared, rather than actually tailoring a solution that would address the problem, is far more idiotic.

Simply making it harder to buy something that can kill people is not a violation of your rights. You are still well within your right to purchase a gun but that doesn’t mean that laws can’t be put in place to make that process more difficult for people who intend to do harm to others. You are not a serious individual based on your last two comments.

 

[UK_Dallas]

No, you idiot. There are NOT classes specifically dedicated to all the negative things about the US, despite whatever snowflake bs you read on the internet.

You're certain about that? 100% certain?

Since you believe there aren't, how are these kids developing their negative views of the United States? You think it is just social media?

 

[I am stupid]

That does nothing for already purchased guns. Those will require ongoing testing etc. how frequently I don’t know. It’s one thing to stop a “crazy” person from buying. We also have to figure out a way to prevent them from using guns they already own of they “snap”. Ongoing/random testing would help I think.

I think you would have better luck pushing red flag laws over ongoing or random testing. Not only does that sound horrible it would be almost impossible to enforce. How many people would need to be hired to do millions of screenings every few years?

All I know is most suggestions people have are either already done but are not enforced(letting people with mental issues pass NCIS checks), impossible to enforce, or they wouldn't help much.

But raising the minimum age for certain weapons? Could work. Easy to enforce. Adding a waiting period to pick one up? Could work. Easy to enforce. Neither would be 100% but I guess it could be a starting point.

 

[PTI (pti)]

You're certain about that? 100% certain?

Since you believe there aren't, how are these kids developing their negative views of the United States? You think it is just social media?

Hey. To be fair, I’m 44. I haven’t been in public school since 1997. Maybe instead of geometry, health education, art, chemistry, PE, history, and business they now teach totally different classes.

I’ll check with Libs of Tik Tok just to make 100% sure what’s really going on in America today.

 

[Hank Camacho]

Respectfully, I’m not reading 135 pages worth of a Supreme Court decision. If you want to, you can summarize it

In the decision, the Supreme Court found that a state's ability to pass laws that give a state's government the ability to deny concealed carry licenses based upon the decision of a government agency is unconstitutional. That decision came out last year.

The aftermath of that decision has called into question what ability states have to regulate firearms since the US Constitution guarantees the right to possess firearms. That has even led to federal courts holding that states can't stop people with domestic violence orders against them from possessing firearms. (It is slightly more complicated than that.)

TL;dr: the Supreme Court just made it clear that the Second Amendment guarantees the right of individual American citizens to possess firearms and state governments' ability to pass laws restricting gun possession is currently unclear.

 

[CB3UK]

Once again here we are with people quibbling over guns when the issue is mental health. Good people with guns are not a problem in this country, or any country. It is merely a tool. You want to address the problem, then go to the source of it. Warped minds and twisted ideologies. This country has a mental health crisis and it needs to be addressed head on. No sane, rational person experiences some sort of hardship in life and comes to the conclusion the solution is to shoot up a bunch of people.

 

[Tannerdad]

People determined to kill or be killed will find a way. They usually do.

My wife and I have pistols. We each took a class on its use. Sitting here I can tell you that I have no reluctance to use it to protect my family or myself. But since I haven’t faced that situation (Thank God), I have no real idea how I would react but I feel I’m prepared to do what’s necessary.

I have zero interest in owning an AR or facsimile. To each their own I guess.

I feel strongly that we need to treat the cause and not just just react after the fact. But in today’s world, not sure adding more laws that will ultimately be circumvented is the answer.

We’re not going to stop these things totally, imo. It’s a matter of reducing the number of incidents. Stricter background checks…longer wait times…maybe a start. I don’t know. But consistently is the key. The laws have to be the same everywhere.

Pissing in a hurricane.

 

[UK_Dallas]

Hey. To be fair, I’m 44. I haven’t been in public school since 1997. Maybe instead of geometry, health education, art, chemistry, PE, history, and business they now teach totally different classes.

I’ll check with Libs of Tik Tok just to make 100% sure what’s really going on in America today.

My niece is in 7th grade and in Texas you have to study Texas history in the 7th grade. This year they added a section on Reconstruction with a heavy focus on songs, poems and artwork by former slaves. In the essays they had to describe how they thought the former slaves felt along with how those things made them feel. Needless to say there were plenty of upset parents. Granted that is part of history but should 13 year olds studying those types of issues?

This is the first real history class many of them have had. Let's hope they don't carry those negative feelings forward.

There was a teacher in the high school she will attend that was making her students read White Fragility. She was let go last year.

This is going on in Texas, can't imagine what is happening in less red areas.

 

[PTI (pti)]

I, too, definitely remember learning about slavery and that it was bad. Guess I was indoctrinated.

🥺😢

 

[Hank Camacho]

There was a teacher in the high school she will attend that was making her students read White Fragility. She was let go last year.

I'm glad the good people of Texas are educating their children that slavery is bad and firing people who support Karen Sharpton.

Sounds pretty reasonable.

 

[ukcatz12]

My niece is in 7th grade and in Texas you have to study Texas history in the 7th grade. This year they added a section on Reconstruction with a heavy focus on songs, poems and artwork by former slaves. In the essays they had to describe how they thought the former slaves felt along with how those things made them feel. Needless to say there were plenty of upset parents. Granted that is part of history but should 13 year olds studying those types of issues?

This is the first real history class many of them have had. Let's hope they don't carry those negative feelings forward.

Good lord. Yes, she should be taught that. Yes, Americans need to feel those negative feelings when learning about the history of our country. Everyone should be taught an accurate history of the history and founding of this country and they can come to their own determination of whether the country is as good as is often claimed.

 

[Ron Mehico]

My niece is in 7th grade and in Texas you have to study Texas history in the 7th grade. This year they added a section on Reconstruction with a heavy focus on songs, poems and artwork by former slaves. In the essays they had to describe how they thought the former slaves felt along with how those things made them feel. Needless to say there were plenty of upset parents. Granted that is part of history but should 13 year olds studying those types of issues?

This is the first real history class many of them have had. Let's hope they don't carry those negative feelings forward.

There was a teacher in the high school she will attend that was making her students read White Fragility. She was let go last year.

This is going on in Texas, can't imagine what is happening in less red areas.

I’ve always despised Germany and Germans since reading the diary of Anne Frank back in the seventh grade in 1993 so I can see why kids hate America now

 

[UK_Dallas]

I, too, definitely remember learning about slavery and that it was bad. Guess I was indoctrinated.

🥺😢

Did you do a deep dive in the 7th grade on how images like this make you feel?

Back on topic, kids are having their heads screwed up and part of it is coming from the education system.

 

[PhDcat2018]

"I don't find it particularly useful to discuss action steps to reduce gun violence with people who aren't at least familiar with guns"

This is the exact sentiment that leads to absolutely nothing ever getting done after this. This entitled "I know more about guns than you do" attitude and refusal to find middle ground is asenine. A deranged 25 year old just bought an AR 15 like he was buying a gallon of milk and you see no issue with that? No required training, no mental health screening, no waiting period? I am a republican but this entitled attitude pisses me off. Lets just arm eveyone and it will be the ****ing wild west.

No. That's not how this works. JD talked like an uneducated person on this topic. A lot of people do that. If people would actually research gun types, how they work, then the ar-15 wouldn't be mentioned. It doesn't matter how "scary" it looks. There's other guns that kill more. There's other guns that would be far more devastating to use than it.

 

[PTI (pti)]

Serious question --> where did YOU go wrong, UK_Dallas?

- parents?
- school system?
- observed a drag show as a child?

 

[ukcatz12]

The point is - these kids/young adults are being told at some point, likely college but some high school that the United States is not a good country and that sticks with them. If they are also hearing that at home it only exacerbates that thought.

They're not so much as being taught as they are seeing it first hand. The internet is a great equalizers and has let people who have grown up with it see the warts of our country.

I don't have the study in front of me, but I believe Millennials will be the first generation who will be less wealthy and have a worse standard of living as their parents. They look around and see small houses starting at half a million dollars, one bedroom apartments going for $2,000 a month, student loan payments larger than a mortgage payment, healthcare costs off the charts, jobs requiring a bachelors starting at $15/hr, childcare costs that make having children completely impossible unless you live in the same town as your family, and wonder what all the hype is about.

I'm lucky to have an upper middle class lifestyle and own a home in an NYC suburb. Even then, I'm one bad accident away from losing it all. This country can do better. It's great for the top 15% or 20% of people, it can absolutely suck for people below that.

 

[UK_Dallas]

I’ve always despised Germany and Germans since reading the diary of Anne Frank back in the seventh grade in 1993 so I can see why kids hate America now

My dad had a set of WW2 Encyclopedias that I started looking at early on. Some very graphic concentration camp pictures. Feel the same way as you.