134 victims have been killed in Chicago in thus far in ‘23. That is just Chicago. Definitely makes your heart aches.
Mass shooting at Old National Bank in Downtown Louisville
- Thread starter Nightwish84
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25 of those are 19 yrs and under. Those are routinely ignored because they don't fit the narrative.
21 would make sense and coincide with other age restricted things. Wouldn't bother me.
Unfortunately, I don't think it'd have the impact expected.
7 of 10 school shooters are under 18 (not supposed to have guns anyways). Quite a few others are older than this threshold or got guns illegally/took from family.
I'd rather add protection to the targets rather than add more laws that aren't exactly followed to begin with. This proposal (elevated age limit) could've stopped Uvalde - wouldnt have impacted Columbine, Sandy Hook, Covenent or the non school version in Louisville.
The compromise on that one would not be about joining the military (which is currently on a volunteer basis only) but to get drafted. So raise the following to age 22:
- Vote
- Buy a gun
- Get drafted
Eliminating virtually every college aged American the opportunity to have a say in our political system is ridiculous. Despite my stand against the left and how their party has infected the minds of that age group, they still have a say. They are involved in entirely too many issues to have to sit idle.....financial decisions, personal welfare, national security, to name a few. 18 may not be perfect, but it is decidedly better than anything much older.
Another reason why you’re going to see heavy resistance to “do something” is because we all know the “something” is going to be a massive power grab, eviscerating the rights of law abiding Americans.
The recent “TikTok ban” is a perfect example. The politicians had show trials with TikTok executives, went on all the news stations talking about banning TikTok, then put forth a bill that is a sweeping power grab completely unrelated to TikTok.
So we know the “something” is going to be another massive government overstep obliterating our rights, which happens to be the exact reason the founders put the Second Amendment in the Bill of Rights in the first place.
The recent “TikTok ban” is a perfect example. The politicians had show trials with TikTok executives, went on all the news stations talking about banning TikTok, then put forth a bill that is a sweeping power grab completely unrelated to TikTok.
So we know the “something” is going to be another massive government overstep obliterating our rights, which happens to be the exact reason the founders put the Second Amendment in the Bill of Rights in the first place.
-off the top of my head >25 would've also stopped parkland, the Illinois parade shooting as well as the guy that shot up the batman movie some years back. Again...not a panacea, but progress.
-21 would've stopped Uvalde and parkland... can't recall parade/batman ages. It's a start.
-getting govt to begin enforce existing laws/red flag laws would help as well. Many of these shooters are "known" by law enforcement types before they act.
-21 would've stopped Uvalde and parkland... can't recall parade/batman ages. It's a start.
-getting govt to begin enforce existing laws/red flag laws would help as well. Many of these shooters are "known" by law enforcement types before they act.
Yet another reason you’ll see resistance to “do something.”
If the FBI would stop LARPing as governor kidnappers and “insurrectionists” and focus on solving/preventing crimes instead of inventing them, it’d be a different story.
This is one of the reasons why I'd like to see compulsory military / civil service for 18-20ish year olds. That would get kids in a structured system where they are provided mental health services, as well as a structure that teaches accountability, discipline, etc.
By necessity, the military appears to be really good at spotting troublemakers and either getting them some help or punishing them.
I can see what you mean about how the military teaches accountability and discipline but the military is not a place that I would look towards as a beacon of excellent mental health services. The suicide rate among our veterans is one of the saddest things about our country.
While I'm a supporter of the 2A, I'd prefer we take weapons like the AR-15 that keep popping up in some of the worst shootings out of the public sphere. Could murderers use something else? Sure. But those options won't be as efficient as this weapon.
At the very least could we not make this particular style of gun REALLY hard to obtain? That doesn't infringe on anything. It's hard for me to go get a freakin' pseudofed. This asshole got his AR-15 a week before carrying the act out. No long background check. No training of any kind. Just, here, enjoy your killing machine.
We make these kind of nuanced decisions on many things in life. Why is this so difficult?
At the very least could we not make this particular style of gun REALLY hard to obtain? That doesn't infringe on anything. It's hard for me to go get a freakin' pseudofed. This asshole got his AR-15 a week before carrying the act out. No long background check. No training of any kind. Just, here, enjoy your killing machine.
We make these kind of nuanced decisions on many things in life. Why is this so difficult?
This idea sounds like a no-brainer to someone not familiar with guns. To someone who is, it sounds ludicrous.
"Let's make it harder for crazy people to get a gun that can kill dozens of people in seconds."
@Hank Camacho : "That's ludicrous!"
It's like you stopped after his first sentence and said "I agree with zero of this." I mean honestly, there's no point in even having a discussion with some people when it comes to guns.
-there is no mechanical difference in an AR 15 and my old (still regret selling it) browning BAR safari 30-06 deer rifle...it's all aesthetic. In fact most ar's use rounds that are much less potent than my old 30-06.
^ar's are black and scary... and my browning had beautiful engravings of stags/boars on the receiver and a beautiful wooden stock.
^ar's are black and scary... and my browning had beautiful engravings of stags/boars on the receiver and a beautiful wooden stock.
This is where I am. I don’t want to take anyone’s guns. I don’t want to ban guns. I would like to make certain guns harder to obtain.
But, I wouldn’t mind of firearms capable of firing ____ rounds in ___ seconds be limited to those who can pass a written and demonstrated performance test similar to a driver’s test, undergo a psychiatric evaluation and a thorough nationwide background checks. Any convictions for crimes such as domestic violence or terroristic threatening disqualifies the individual for life.
I find it absurd that if I want to sell you a $500 beater car with 250K miles on it, we have to go to the courthouse with title in hand to transfer the vehicle from me to you, I have to pay the taxes for that year, etc. If you wanted to sell me a firearm for $500, we could meet up in a parking lot, I hand you the cash, you hand me the gun, end of transaction. You don’t know if I intend to use it to shoot beer cans or school children. Seems backwards.
I also think lengthy background checks/cool down periods would he a good idea. I understand a person needing a pistol same day for personal protection, but I can’t think of a single reason anyone needs an AR-15 same day.
To be clear, I’m not advocating banning this weapon. I just don’t think everyone with a pulse should be able to acquire one easily. For experienced hun owners it’s another tool im the toolbox. For inexperienced gun owners, it’s akin to buying a 16 year old a sports car - too much engine for the level of experience and ability.
Briefly:
1. ARs are probably the most ubiquitous firearm in America. There are millions and millions of them. Banning them would do nothing to stop the supply for at least a decade.
2. The VAST majority of gun murders (including mass shootings) are committed with handguns. Admittedly, ARs appear to being increasingly used in mass shootings that are designed to capture the public's attention. Even though those types of shootings seem incredibly common due to the media attention, they thankfully are not.
The vast majority of mass shootings are drug related and committed with a handgun. Banning ARs would just be window dressing and have almost no measurable effect to reduce gun violence.
It would be the same WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING! mentality that led to all kinds of dumbass government abuse during COVID.
3. The AR platform is an incredibly versatile rifle. It has near limitless configurations. People use them for almost every conceivable use -- legal and illegal.
There are so many variations that defining what you mean by "AR" in order to ban that is basically impossible. (Google "featureless rifle California" if you want to see an example of the difficulty involved.)
4. As rudd said, most of what people object to about the AR are cosmetic details. It is a semi-automatic rifle that fires a relatively weak rifle round. Other than 22 long rifle, nearly every rifle is utterly devastating to mammals. In fact, that's the entire point.
By comparison, an AR is much more deadly than a handgun but much less deadly than many other rifles that no one believes should be banned.
Frankly, we should be glad that shotguns are not more popular with mass shooters because a generic pump action shotgun would cause much more carnage in your typical spree shooting at close quarters than an AR.
5. The federal assault weapons ban that was in effect in the 90s has caused many people (and many more people than will publicly admit it) to stockpile ARs, magazines, etc in case it is ever reinstated. That ban was also associated in many people's minds with the federal government tyranny in the 90s like Waco and Ruby Ridge.
Trying to reinstate the ban could cause much more bloodshed in this country than currently exists.
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The shutdowns were a human travesty. There was zero benefit to them.
Relevance? I did. It was still a horrendous fiction based political decision. A horrible thing that society will pay for for generations.
This is the truth and the number one reason nothing ever gets done on gun issues. It's not right wingers stopping this stuff. Most gun owners I know and talk to are in favor of some common sense reforms like background checks. The problem is time and again the left has shown that if you give them an inch they will take a mile. Every. Damn. Time. They can't be trusted and so the right refuses to budge because they know exactly what will happen down the road if they do.
We have a direct precedent that shows this statement is false. The 1994 assault weapons ban did not lead to liberals banning all guns. So no, it doesn't happen Every. Damn. Time. The issue is we have half of our politicians being spoon fed thousands of dollars by the NRA to block any and all gun reform because they know that more gun reform=less money spent on guns.
I mean honestly, there's no point in even having a discussion with some people when it comes to guns.
Agreed.
TBH, I don't find it particularly useful to discuss action steps to reduce gun violence with people who aren't at least familiar with guns and who, preferably, have at least some experience shooting.
Other than bolt action rifles, basically EVERY gun legally sold in America can kill dozens of people in seconds. There is no magic to an AR. It may look scarier to people without exposure to guns but it isn't some magically devastating unicorn of a firearm. It is a light, handy rifle that most people can shoot relatively well. That's why it is the most popular firearm platform in America.
The ar-15 is vilified because it looks different. Handguns kill far more people per year. The ar-15 is no more of a "killing machine" than a 9mm or .38ACP. Do some reading up JD. People really need to educate themselves on guns and not just parrot mass media(on both sides).
-that's a fair question. 4 round capacity, iirc same as most ar's out of the box. Could reload in 10 seconds if I had to.
Right so since basically every gun that is sold can kill dozens in seconds like you said, don’t you think we should make it harder for just ANYONE to be able to buy them?
These changes target those people. The extra steps will help show who those people are. Age restrictions also just make sense. There is already age restrictions in place for handguns.
I'm by no means a gun expert, but to me the ability to easily convert an AR-15 into something that can hold a high number of rounds is a bigger issue than the type of ammunition it actually uses.
I don't really understand why any civilian needs a firearm with a high capacity magazine, but I know many disagree.
I don't really understand why any civilian needs a firearm with a high capacity magazine, but I know many disagree.
Unfortunately there isn’t a 100% successful way to know that someone is going to commit a crime before they do it.
I can swap out a magazine in 3-4 seconds. AR or handgun.
Just telling you that eliminating high capacity mags doesn't slow you down much if at all. Unless you're running full auto.
So you've ruled out that reasonable/logical suggestion.
This is why nothing ever happens, and what was alluded to above with the "give an inch and they try to take a mile" comment.
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