New Year's resolution two years ago was to stay off the Internet political discussions as much as possible, can't say I've been perfect but the nasty and ugly commentary is just way over the top and is totally unnecessary. I decided that I have better things to do
Mass shooting at Old National Bank in Downtown Louisville
- Thread starter Nightwish84
- Start date
- Status
I don't want to discount what you're saying, but at least from my perspective, I am not sure that public shame will change the trajectory. I think that works only if you assume the people who commit these acts are motivated by fame and given that they almost always get killed, shame isn't a problem they have to worry about.
I agree totally with your last paragraph! Without getting deep into it and as a veteran, I think every capable individual should serve two years of military service either after leaving hs or graduating college. This woke bs should also be thrown out of our society.
The mayor said we need to reduce violence and, then, followed with “gun violence.” Instead of narrowing it, I think he should have broadened his comment. We need to reduce the level of angst and emotional hyperbole in our cultural and political discussions. Over the past 3-4 years, we have seen the results of pushing people’s emotional buttons. People do things they would not otherwise do. And, emotionally ill people do the horrific.
The problem is that too many people in power benefit from the emotional hyperbole. So, looking to our “leaders” on this subject is unlikely to produce results.
Totally agree. You’ll never see me suggesting we look to our leaders. The people in power are only interested in staying there. They never solve any of the issues they run on. Instead they perpetuate them and capitalize on them.
Not a gun guy - but this doesn't seem like a great idea or maybe a fair idea that whack jobs doing atrocious acts remove the ability to purchase a gun for an 18-24 year old who may live on their own. A 24 year old business women in downtown X, should be able to carry for protection if that is the protection she deemed appropriate.
Maybe long rifle purchases restricted? Waiting periods on when you buy to when you receive certain types of guns....a cool down if you will? I'd always want handguns to be available to those who need immediate self protection - but obviously plenty of gun types aren't necessary in self protection...
Judged by your posts you are biased and nothing he does will change your opinion. The shutdowns were necessary sir, whether you want to believe it or not.
You can't tell me you'd rather have had Matt Bevin navigate us through these times.
Through what times? And what exactly is Andy navigating?
That would be false, and has been proven as such.
Nope, I disagree. The frontal lobe isn’t fully developed till 25. One of the reasons you can’t rent a car (deadly weapon) until you’re 25. Don’t worry - everyone under 25 will manage.
Hate that we have to keep messaging family/friends making sure that they're ok after yet another mass shooting. We can debate over whether this is a mental health issue, gun issue, some combination of the two, or something else entirely but knowing that our government is going to do absolutely nothing to try and prevent this from happening again is something that all of us should be furious over. We have created a society that cares more about filling our pockets than protecting our fellow citizens.
You know exactly what he meant. Andy made difficult decisions during Covid in attempts to protect people. Did he get everything right? Of course not. No one did. Bevin on the other hand was advocating people going to "measle parties" prior to Covid. What do you honestly think he would have done during Covid? Do you honestly think he would have handled Covid better than Andy? Those results would've been catastrophic.
Don't forget Andy was recognized nationally by Dems and Reps as one of the best governors with his handling of Covid.
That was an absurd statement at the time, back when Beshear was just following whatever Dewine was deciding to do. There’s a thread at the top of this board chronicling the real time criticisms of his policies that were in no way based on science or logic.
With the benefit of hindsight, to claim the lockdowns were necessary is just flat out insane. The state will be suffering the ramifications of shutting down in person learning for years to come.
I disagree as well.
Every law abiding citizen under 25 becomes a potential target. Defensive gun use occurs in approximately 1.67M incidents annually. I would not be a proponent for putting a gun free zone label on all law abiding individuals younger than 25.
Also - the Louisville shooter was 25 and the Tennessee shooter was 28.
The car thing is interesting...but you can own your own car and drive alone at 16. You can purchase your own, just not borrow from a rental place...I'm fine with forbidding the borrowing of guns.
Last edited:
-Louisville shooter was 23.
-im a conservative and a gun rights proponent... but nearly *all* school shootings are perpetrated by folks under 25. This workplace shooting was carried out by someone under 25.
-outlawing guns will never happen in the USA. Confiscation will never happen...it's impossible. Preventing gun violence is impossible here.
^in that light, mitigation is all that can be done. This is a reasonable proposal to mitigate a specific *part* of problem.
-ron explained the reasoning well, as to why.
-are we not disenfranchising folks under 18 right now?
-im a conservative and a gun rights proponent... but nearly *all* school shootings are perpetrated by folks under 25. This workplace shooting was carried out by someone under 25.
-outlawing guns will never happen in the USA. Confiscation will never happen...it's impossible. Preventing gun violence is impossible here.
^in that light, mitigation is all that can be done. This is a reasonable proposal to mitigate a specific *part* of problem.
-ron explained the reasoning well, as to why.
-are we not disenfranchising folks under 18 right now?
Ok, let’s compromise at 22? Deal? Great, we met in the middle to try and save lives. Great job!
Can we also raise the age to vote and enjoy freedom of speech? On the whole, idiots with votes have done far more damage to this country than idiots with guns.
-Louisville shooter was 25. Original reporting was recanted. https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/10/us/connor-sturgeon-louisville-bank-mass-shooting/index.html
-I have no guns and never shot more than a bb...but I would not want to underestimate the amount of deterrence that occurs for the potential gun ownership/gun ownership to outlaw guns for under 25s for mass active shooter scenarios which happen far to often, but are rare in reality....and this outlawing wouldnt have prevented the last two shootings of this nature in TN and Louisville.
-Under 18s are minors, considered vulnerable and protected as such under many laws. Under 18s are soft targets and this is unfortunately reality from the beginning of time. I would love protections for these individuals in schools and other vulnerable areas.
-I'm all for raising the voting age.
If we're going to let 18 year olds get killed in the military, the least we can do is allow them the right to vote.
-got it...so let's say it only applies to 99% of school shootings, raising the age to 25 will mitigate school shootings. Worth it.
-it's a volunteer army... but I can get behind 21yo for both.
If it is worth it, by all means. But you have to do some accounting for any positive protections guns may provide for those age 18-24. I don't know the accurate measurement of that.
At least 6 of the 10 school shooting deaths in 2023 were killed by a 28 year old. Another or 2 look like illegal gang activity and not traditional “school shootings”. The 25 law wouldn’t help there either. Shooters under 18 also wouldn’t be deterred by the 25 limit, considering they weren’t legally holding as is.
40 deaths in 2022. Can ownership from the 18-24 category offset that amount in protection category? I dont know. But you would want to find out.
He was 25. The news media initially reported he was 23.
I think age restricting firearms is going to run into constitutional problems based on recent SCOTUS decisions. I'm not intellectually opposed to considering a federal law raising the age of adulthood to 23 or so, though.
Last edited:
-the 6 folks killed by a 28 yo in Nashville shooting was an anomaly. I wouldn't hang my hat on that. Overall the point remains that the vast majority of school shootings are carried out by folks under 25.
^that gal was showing signs of strain as was the young man yesterday... we've gotta do a better job of looking after each other, relationships are key here imo.
-im far from a gun grabber...and i know our gun deaths are skewed in this country by gang/criminal activity...and most "mass shootings" fall under this category as described (4 or more folks involved)...and no laws are gonna stop that stuff.
^that said raising to 25 would greatly reduce children being shot in schools... which *is* something that we can mitigate. Again...not a panacea, but a worthwhile step that would show meaningful impact.
^that gal was showing signs of strain as was the young man yesterday... we've gotta do a better job of looking after each other, relationships are key here imo.
-im far from a gun grabber...and i know our gun deaths are skewed in this country by gang/criminal activity...and most "mass shootings" fall under this category as described (4 or more folks involved)...and no laws are gonna stop that stuff.
^that said raising to 25 would greatly reduce children being shot in schools... which *is* something that we can mitigate. Again...not a panacea, but a worthwhile step that would show meaningful impact.
I've often thought of this as well. Required military or civil service. And the civil service option would send you somewhere away from home so you experience other types of people. And at the end of it the government would pay for either two years of community college with a guaranteed acceptance to a four year school if you want to continue your education, or a training program for a skilled profession.
Why would it run into constitutional problems? I believe hand guns already have age restrictions in place for purchases?
Yes. If the 25 were to be a net positive, I would agree. My educated guess is that it ends up not being one and other protection measures at schools should be implemented- yesterday.
I have to assume assaults, burglaries, rape and murders are also thwarted by ownership in 18-24 category. Is that # 40, is it 40,000; 400,000? That matters tremendously.
I’d be more for starting with metal detectors, updated doors and windows, additional officers per school to start.
Columbine was illegal gun purchase. Sandy Hook was a mothers gun purchases. Uvalde was gun purchase days after 18th bday. Which is why I mentioned a cool down, request to gun in hand time period for certain gun types, regardless of age.
When was the last time a mass shooter targeted a non-gunfree zone? They may be crazy but they are not dumb.
I'd love to know how much time this guy spent online with "shooter" games. "All" of the recent shooters, at least the males, basically use those for training. We need to do studies as to mental illness and those spiraling into hours and hours of desensitizing video games.
Plus this new trend to live video stream of your crime. This seems to be spreading and will be further mimicked.
I'd love to know how much time this guy spent online with "shooter" games. "All" of the recent shooters, at least the males, basically use those for training. We need to do studies as to mental illness and those spiraling into hours and hours of desensitizing video games.
Plus this new trend to live video stream of your crime. This seems to be spreading and will be further mimicked.
Intellectually just randomly picking a number? Why not 12?....liberals are allowing kids to make gender decisions at this age so there's that. Most, if not all, of my friends in my age group have been out of school and working/raising a family since we were 21...none of us shot anyone, robbed a store, etc. Many of our parents have been adulting before that. What/Who defines "adulthood"?
Another update:
One of the other victims sons went to Our Lady of Lourdes with me. The oldest is a year older. Another hit closer to home.
Just don't think it's a great idea (especially in this current political climate) to take away the right to vote from millions of Americans. I know Democrats aren't for raising the voting age so Republicans wouldn't be doing themselves any favors with the young people vote to be advocating for that policy.
It would be interesting to discuss how many of these shooters would not do it if they were not able to copy-cat other shooters for their dying moment. Those of us who own AR-15's know it is just a really cool, scary locking rifle. If the young mentally ill shooters were not able to acquire the "tricked out" version of a rifle, "clothing of war", if they would be less glamorized by dying with a semi automatic "deer rifle" in their hands and regular clothes. They are crazy so who knows.
I don't think schools are propaganda factories like some others do. But if you have kids you will see things from time to time that makes you wonder how a particular teacher has managed to keep a job. My kids are in their 20s now, so they are out on their own. When they were in high school, the civics teacher was a raging lunatic. Both of my sons said their respective classes didn't respect her or think she knew anything about what she was teaching. They said most class time was spent arguing with what she was teaching as opposed to it being an educational session. No surprise that she was very liberal. When Trump beat Clinton in the election, she was literally saying things like there is no purpose behind the electoral college system. In other words, she taught her beliefs instead of actual governmental history. I wanted to complain to the principal about her, but my son felt he would somehow be punished if I did, so I stayed out of it. The point being, she was incompetent and yet she still teaches civics at the same high school these many years later. In the private sector, she would have been fired years ago. In public school, she has a job as long as she wants one. Overall, I was happy with the education my kids recieved, but she was shining example of a problem in our education system.
This is absolutely, 1,000% false.
Lockdowns (especially after the initial 15 days which was forgivable because of the unknown) were the most egregious tyranny perpetrated by the government in almost everyone alive's lifetime.
-
-i get it. That's why each side would have to give on something.
-the way I look at it...as society has progressed, our lifespans are longer, and our "childhood" has extended...as a result of greater educational opportunity, and folks ability to support a kid through college. An 18yo in 1990 wasn't the same as an 18yo in 1960...and an 18yo in 2023 is sure as hell not the same as an 18yo in 1960...in regards to responsibility and expectations.
^that's not necessarily a bad thing. While 18yo folks generally don't have to think about providing for a family/being autonomous now... social media/the pace of life has made things *much* harder for them developmentally speaking. There is merit to *real* personal interaction and connection... I love my paddock friends but there is no substitute for breaking bread with someone.
^with social media folks are comparing their "inside" to others carefully curated "outside"... most folks don't post their boogers/foibles. It's really difficult on young minds that don't "get" this truth.
-I'm rambling...but my point is people really aren't "adults" until mid 20's (back to Ron's point about frontal lobe development)... biologically this has always been the case, but psychologically speaking our kids are kids a lot longer these days, imo.
-i get it. That's why each side would have to give on something.
-the way I look at it...as society has progressed, our lifespans are longer, and our "childhood" has extended...as a result of greater educational opportunity, and folks ability to support a kid through college. An 18yo in 1990 wasn't the same as an 18yo in 1960...and an 18yo in 2023 is sure as hell not the same as an 18yo in 1960...in regards to responsibility and expectations.
^that's not necessarily a bad thing. While 18yo folks generally don't have to think about providing for a family/being autonomous now... social media/the pace of life has made things *much* harder for them developmentally speaking. There is merit to *real* personal interaction and connection... I love my paddock friends but there is no substitute for breaking bread with someone.
^with social media folks are comparing their "inside" to others carefully curated "outside"... most folks don't post their boogers/foibles. It's really difficult on young minds that don't "get" this truth.
-I'm rambling...but my point is people really aren't "adults" until mid 20's (back to Ron's point about frontal lobe development)... biologically this has always been the case, but psychologically speaking our kids are kids a lot longer these days, imo.
I think we ALL agree meaningful changes need to be made. That's a starting point. I'm sick and fuxking tired of hearing about these mass shootings. It makes your heart ache.
- Status
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
-
-
The Ukraine war. (Yes, we'll mind our manners)- Latest: CastleRubric
-