Let Talk The Recruited Class.

[WildCard]

Originally posted by jauk11:
While I respect your football knowledge about as much as I don't understand how you can back the Cardinals I think the UK 10 class makes a shambles of your theory about limiting the ratings to the top 17. And I do have to admit that there was NO explaining how that class turned out. I was very excited by Joker adding four of our top rated recruits in that class at the last minute, 4* Smith and 5.7s Gainer, Patterson, and Priester, but the only 5.7 that did didley out of our top 5 recruits was Sanders, an early Joker commit.

On the other hand of the SEVEN two stars listed in the class Bailey started several games his first year, Eatmon contributed, Huguenin may start this year, Mansour was a big plus, especially as a Senior, T Robinson started a lot of games, Shields played quite a bit, and Simmons played quite a bit, surely more than the 5.6 rated Trimble. The ONLY total flameout among the two stars was Ratliff that was only rated a 4.9 and showed up 2" shorter and 20 # lighter that caused the coach that recruited him to get fired.

Mixed results on the 5.5s and 5.6s, 5.5s Brause, J Johnson and Rumph played while I think Delic, Gibbs, and McDuffen didn't do much. Same with the 5.6s that should be solid contributors, Williamson, Douglas, and Simpson certainly did but nothing from the other four, Trimble, McAdoo, Laughlin, and J Henderson.

Certainly an anomaly and a strange class in the way expectations turned out though. I'm sure you could find some classes to back your point of view, I have always scratched my head about the 10 class, the beginning of the end for Joker along with losing most of the stars from the 09 class early, the two four star JCs plus the much underrated 5.6 Warford.
This post was edited on 2/17 1:20 AM by jauk11

Well, thank you. Since I am an alumnus I find it easy to back the Cards. Beyond that, as a football fan (who made many trips to Lexington in the 60s, 70s and 80s to see at least 1 good football team), I am impressed with how far UofL football has come since my graduation. The school was on the verge of dropping football on 3 separate occasions between 1964 and 1984.

I'm not sure I get your point about UK's 2010 class unless is to say the "bottom 10" contributed more than the "top 17". Well, that's the way it works sometime. The fact that the higher rated recruits were basically no shows does not change the fact they were the higher rated recruits.

But it does show that the real evaluation of a class comes after 4 years. The Cats 2010 class was ranked #50 with 26 recruits by the old Rivals system. Probably would have been a bit higher based on top 17. But the 4 year record for that class was 15-34 indicating that #50 was probably too high. The Cards were ranked just ahead of the Cats at #48 (24 recruits) but have seen 4 or 5 of that class go to the NFL and several more 5th year players likely to bio this year. Their 4 year record was 37-15 indicating their ranking was too low.

Ranking recruiting classes is a tricky business.

Peace

 

[RV2]

Guys I expect to redshirt:

Offense:
TE Hart
OT Stenberg
OT Livingston
OG George A-A
OG Wolfe
WR Richardson

Defense:
JDE Bell
DE Daniel
NT Provitt
SLB Allen
WLB Brown
Nickel Beckham
CB Jackson

 

[Parabolicsecan]

I've been reading the boards the past couple of weeks and
noticed a lot of attention given to the rankings system. Below is a link to a recent article on the
system.


http://usatodayhss.com/2015/mccabe-prep-combines-allstar-teams-only-out-for-money




Having firsthand experience with this process, I can say
this article is not farfetched. My family traveled to San Antonio in 2013 for
the Army Combine, our son placed well, made the US Army Combine first team etc…
He did OK with the glitzy 40 yd dash, shuttle, vertical that everyone gets
starry eyed over however I told him before the combine that there is a King in
every crowd and someone will be watching the 1 on 1 session. He had limited opportunities in those
sessions (a total of 3 opportunities) however it was a jab, swim move that he
put on a 4 star OL that got the crowd in a frenzy (Underwear Olympics setting
mind you).


After that event, no ranking, a 'King' from NASA sent video
to Alabama (their job is to shuffle through hundreds of thousands of player's
film and match player size, talent potential etc… with a college's scheme) and
Coach Steele flew in to see him at the school. My son's words, "Dad some guy
name Coach Steele said we should come down for Junior Day".


At that time, we had no idea what Junior Day was and did not
want to drive down 9 hours to tour a campus. We bit the bullet, decided to do
it, and oh boy! We were treated like royalty! Got to hang out with Coach Saban,
watch him break down my son's film to see how he would fit the scheme (similar
to Donta Hightower) and ride in his Benz (see below). Needless to say, they
wanted him badly. As a matter of fact we spent more than 7 hours that day negligibly
staving off the machine to get him to commit on the spot.




http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc428/ggd2884/image%201.jpeg


http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc428/ggd2884/image.jpeg


http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc428/ggd2884/IMG_5222.jpg




The next day, Rivals rated him a 3 star without seeing
anything on him. He did an interview with Rivals on the ride home (they had no
idea who he was because they don't find talent to evaluate like coaches do,
talent chooses to find them). They invited him to an upcoming camp to get that
coveted fourth star (their words); he turned it down because in his words "I
could care less about stars." Went to subsequent Junior Days and picked up
offers from big time schools based on his measurables and interaction. We made a conscious decision to focus on
camps held by the universities that stressed technique like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7Qh83_60nA,
instead of underwear camps that "wanted him to tell them his story" and promote
their brand. Got an offer from UK, made the trip, saw the path to him earning a
pretty challenging degree while playing in the SEC (they laid it out, left no
stone unturned and left no doubt he could do it), a beautiful campus, a
coaching staff with a track record of success and shunned all suitors that
followed. Turned down the Shrine-Bowl combine right before the season (no need
to risk injury in the name of exposure when you know where you want to go) and
remained a 3 star.




He went to one Rivals Camp just to say he did and performed
two reps in the 1 on 1 session, annihilated his opponent both times. The camp
had a 5 star attending and he got a lot of work for their 'evaluation'
process. Right before the season, met
someone with Xos who explained, these schools don't recruit 4 and 5 star
players, the players become 3 stars after a big time college offers them (based
on film evaluation from NASA and subsequently the coaching staff) then they
become 4 and 5 star and/or lose stars based on how hard they hit and how they
perform on the underwear circuit. I showed him a video of my son at the Rivals
camp and he stated, "Awesome move, too bad the guy had to grab on for dear
life." I jokingly asked him if the guy didn't' hold if my son would have gotten
that fourth star, he said "Believe it or not, that's how it goes, it's all they
have to go on". I mean why wouldn't it, it got him an offer from the University
of Alabama right? See video below: (My son is around the 1:20 mark).




https://rivals.yahoo.com/video/recruiting-football/rcs-charlotte-ol-vs-dl-pt-2-1124740




This is why I don't put anything into the star system, let
the actions in the weight room and on the field speak. Bryce Love was a 4/5
star running back who is a little bigger than Siheim Hines and he ran up
against my son in the 3rd round of the playoffs, around 1:23 in the
video below, big boy tackle against a smaller back = injured shoulder, out for
the game. Forgot to mention, they are very close friends!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ed20TAU5TU

 

[hmt5000]

kengera's dad? you sir have a freak on your hands. next bud dupree if you ask me. most would agree that offers matter more than rankings but the sec is such a tough conference that you almost have to have top 25 classes to compete with them from a jimmy's and joe's perspective.

what you are talking about definitely affected wolfe and stenbergs ratings. both committed to UK and shut down recruiting. without all the interest from other schools no more effort was put into re-rating them. stenberg looked awesome in the alabama hs all star game though (some thought he was the best o-lineman there). wolfe was impressive at a couple camps and got shout outs but never got ranked higher. provitt was coveted more by some osu fans than any d-lineman in their class but he got passed over because grades were a concern. provitt was clearly the best defensive player on a team that had a 4* d-lineman and provitt was just rated a 5.5 3*.

its definitely an inexact science. fans need something in the offseason to talk about and give them hope for the next 4 years. and rankings are all we have to go by.... and if we had got the 5* rb from just up the street... we'd of had a top 20 class but probably not really any better than the class we ended up with. rating are important but just not as important as coach evaluations, offers, and heart/desire (which really cant be measured).

 

[C1180]

I have Kengera Danials who is rated a 5.6 as one of the more under rated recruits in UKs recruited class. I give him at least a 5.7 and actually lean more toward a 5.8 ,4 star. IMO he is one of the players in the recruited class ready to play right away and IMO he will play right away at UK next year.

 

[lz]

Terrific post from Mr Daniel, the best I've ever read from a recruit's parent. I really look forward to Kengera's development as a player and student!

This post was edited on 2/18 10:51 AM by lz

 

[mrschwump]

Originally posted by C1180:

I have Kengera Danials who is rated a 5.6 as one of the more under rated recruits in UKs recruited class. I give him at least a 5.7 and actually lean more toward a 5.8 ,4 star. IMO he is one of the players in the recruited class ready to play right away and IMO he will play right away at UK next year.

It's Daniel, not Daniels.

 

[C1180]

Originally posted by mrschwump:

Originally posted by C1180:

I have Kengera Danials who is rated a 5.6 as one of the more under rated recruits in UKs recruited class. I give him at least a 5.7 and actually lean more toward a 5.8 ,4 star. IMO he is one of the players in the recruited class ready to play right away and IMO he will play right away at UK next year.

It's Daniel, not Daniels.

I looked it up and you are right but IMO you calling me out on that is a little picky

 

[lz]

Originally posted by C1180:

Originally posted by mrschwump:


It's Daniel, not Daniels.

I looked it up and you are right but IMO you calling me out on that is a little picky

I edited my mistake, I like for my own name to be spelled correctly!

 

[Blue Decade]

Originally posted by C1180:

Lets have it UK football fans fans who do you think out of this class will have the greatest impact in the future? Who do you think is the most under rated? Who do you think will have the greatest impact next year? Who do you think might get the Randall Cobb award as the most under rated recruit coming out of high school that will have the biggest impact on UK football in the future? Who do you project to be a bust and prove to be over rated?

Kengera Daniel is the top impact newcomer because he plays a position of immediate need and he is a spring admission. Daniel can be a difference maker. For the same reason, Conrad, Jones will probably have an immediate impact. In no particular order, best players in this class are Daniel, Asafo-Adjei, Stenberg, Provitt, Westry, Walker, Greenwood, Gosier, King, Conrad. Also, Brown, Allen, Beckham, Livingston, Wolfe have high upsides but need to get in the gym. I don't know what to make of Miggins yet but like his size. This is a solid to very good class, and I am not disappointed by any player in it. But this class cannot really be judged for several years. It should not be judged by who is not in it. It should not be judged by who signed somewhere else. If the Nebraska transfer Love is eligible in 2015, he will make us better in the middle and he could also push Forrest to an outside linebacker position which would make us better at 2 positions.

 

[Rhavicc]

Originally posted by mrschwump:

Originally posted by C1180:

I have Kengera Danials who is rated a 5.6 as one of the more under rated recruits in UKs recruited class. I give him at least a 5.7 and actually lean more toward a 5.8 ,4 star. IMO he is one of the players in the recruited class ready to play right away and IMO he will play right away at UK next year.

It's Daniel, not Daniels.

He said Danials, not Daniels.

 

[ukalumni00]

Mark my words, in a few seasons Kengera and Denzel will be considered one of the best DE duos in the country.

 

[mrschwump]

I looked it up and you are right but IMO you calling me out on that is a little picky

I edited my mistake, I like for my own name to be spelled correctly!

Nope, not calling anybody out. I'm more than capable of screwing up someone's name. Just think if these guys are willing to commit 4-5 years to UK the least we can do is spell their name correctly. Maybe that comes from months of reading Towels instead of Towles.

 

[C1180]

Originally posted by mrschwump:

I looked it up and you are right but IMO you calling me out on that is a little picky

I edited my mistake, I like for my own name to be spelled correctly!

Nope, not calling anybody out. I'm more than capable of screwing up someone's name. Just think if these guys are willing to commit 4-5 years to UK the least we can do is spell their name correctly. Maybe that comes from months of reading Towels instead of Towles.

I agree that that people by now should have learned to spell Towels name OOps I mean Towles.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Originally posted by Parabolicsecan:

I've been reading the boards the past couple of weeks and
noticed a lot of attention given to the rankings system. Below is a link to a recent article on the
system.


http://usatodayhss.com/2015/mccabe-prep-combines-allstar-teams-only-out-for-money



Having firsthand experience with this process, I can say
this article is not farfetched. My family traveled to San Antonio in 2013 for
the Army Combine, our son placed well, made the US Army Combine first team etc…
He did OK with the glitzy 40 yd dash, shuttle, vertical that everyone gets
starry eyed over however I told him before the combine that there is a King in
every crowd and someone will be watching the 1 on 1 session. He had limited opportunities in those
sessions (a total of 3 opportunities) however it was a jab, swim move that he
put on a 4 star OL that got the crowd in a frenzy (Underwear Olympics setting
mind you).


After that event, no ranking, a 'King' from NASA sent video
to Alabama (their job is to shuffle through hundreds of thousands of player's
film and match player size, talent potential etc… with a college's scheme) and
Coach Steele flew in to see him at the school. My son's words, "Dad some guy
name Coach Steele said we should come down for Junior Day".


At that time, we had no idea what Junior Day was and did not
want to drive down 9 hours to tour a campus. We bit the bullet, decided to do
it, and oh boy! We were treated like royalty! Got to hang out with Coach Saban,
watch him break down my son's film to see how he would fit the scheme (similar
to Donta Hightower) and ride in his Benz (see below). Needless to say, they
wanted him badly. As a matter of fact we spent more than 7 hours that day negligibly
staving off the machine to get him to commit on the spot.



http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc428/ggd2884/image%201.jpeg


http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc428/ggd2884/image.jpeg


http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc428/ggd2884/IMG_5222.jpg



The next day, Rivals rated him a 3 star without seeing
anything on him. He did an interview with Rivals on the ride home (they had no
idea who he was because they don't find talent to evaluate like coaches do,
talent chooses to find them). They invited him to an upcoming camp to get that
coveted fourth star (their words); he turned it down because in his words "I
could care less about stars." Went to subsequent Junior Days and picked up
offers from big time schools based on his measurables and interaction. We made a conscious decision to focus on
camps held by the universities that stressed technique like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7Qh83_60nA,
instead of underwear camps that "wanted him to tell them his story" and promote
their brand. Got an offer from UK, made the trip, saw the path to him earning a
pretty challenging degree while playing in the SEC (they laid it out, left no
stone unturned and left no doubt he could do it), a beautiful campus, a
coaching staff with a track record of success and shunned all suitors that
followed. Turned down the Shrine-Bowl combine right before the season (no need
to risk injury in the name of exposure when you know where you want to go) and
remained a 3 star.



He went to one Rivals Camp just to say he did and performed
two reps in the 1 on 1 session, annihilated his opponent both times. The camp
had a 5 star attending and he got a lot of work for their 'evaluation'
process. Right before the season, met
someone with Xos who explained, these schools don't recruit 4 and 5 star
players, the players become 3 stars after a big time college offers them (based
on film evaluation from NASA and subsequently the coaching staff) then they
become 4 and 5 star and/or lose stars based on how hard they hit and how they
perform on the underwear circuit. I showed him a video of my son at the Rivals
camp and he stated, "Awesome move, too bad the guy had to grab on for dear
life." I jokingly asked him if the guy didn't' hold if my son would have gotten
that fourth star, he said "Believe it or not, that's how it goes, it's all they
have to go on". I mean why wouldn't it, it got him an offer from the University
of Alabama right? See video below: (My son is around the 1:20 mark).



https://rivals.yahoo.com/video/recruiting-football/rcs-charlotte-ol-vs-dl-pt-2-1124740



This is why I don't put anything into the star system, let
the actions in the weight room and on the field speak. Bryce Love was a 4/5
star running back who is a little bigger than Siheim Hines and he ran up
against my son in the 3rd round of the playoffs, around 1:23 in the
video below, big boy tackle against a smaller back = injured shoulder, out for
the game. Forgot to mention, they are very close friends!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ed20TAU5TU

Incredible insight. No doubt recruiting has become a self serving industry. Attend our camps, we'll rank you higher. It's pretty disturbing.


Thanks for sharing.

 

[mrschwump]

Originally posted by C1180:

Originally posted by mrschwump:

I looked it up and you are right but IMO you calling me out on that is a little picky

I edited my mistake, I like for my own name to be spelled correctly!

Nope, not calling anybody out. I'm more than capable of screwing up someone's name. Just think if these guys are willing to commit 4-5 years to UK the least we can do is spell their name correctly. Maybe that comes from months of reading Towels instead of Towles.



I agree that that people by now should have learned to spell Towels name OOps I mean Towles.

 

[jauk11]

Some wonderful information and insight from Parobolicsecan, I read all the links and watched the film. Very impressive.

I agree that UK is a great University with a beautiful campus and just about everything you could ask for, including a great FOOTBALL fan base that has been starved for decades. With this staff's recruiting AND coaching I think the drought will end soon, I expect a big upturn this year with recruits like Kengera and the improved talent and depth our coaches will have to work with. A very tough road to hoe in the SEC though, but we now have the ingedients to build on IMO.

Sounds like he has some excellent and informed guidance from his parents, often sorely lacking, getting him enrolled early is a great start and also some reassurance that he won't have a problem staying eligible.

I have often argued that concerned parents (and recruits) would be shortsighted not to read boards like this one, to get some insight into the status of their favorite coach and the program, and a lot of the negativity often encountered here hurts the program. There has been an abundance of that on here in the last few years, (a lot of it deserved but counterproductive) but we are coming back into the sunshine, although there will always be the negative nellies and yes the TROLLS that only look for the negatives.

However I would urge a bit of caution, I remember Cobb's Dad posting on here briefly but I think that was after he was done playing, and of course he was a hero, but another (higher rated) player's Dad also posted with a bad ending, a lot of criticism and his son ended up transferring. I also followed another now defunct board where Laughlin's Dad posted a lot, but only during his redshirt year, very good poster that swore off posting when his son was supposed to start playing, and his son went from about 285# DT as a commit to a picture with Joker that summer where he was supposed to weigh 332# with not an ounce of fat visible. Unfortunately he didn't make the grades and dropped out, a big disappointment to me and undoubtedly a ton more so for his Dad. Not saying that is about to happen with your son, especially with him enrolling early and after watching the film, but IF I were posting as a parent I would be leary of doing it as his Dad, a lot of loose cannons and trolls on here IMO.

Great post though, hope you can add some more info up until Kengera starts competing for playing time or maybe longer if you have a thick skin. I would guess that players are prohibited from posting on here, and probably from even reading it.

I do have one question though, why does your son look small in the picture with his parents (I assume, and did you play DT somewhere?) and huge next to Saban? LOL

 

[Parabolicsecan]

Thanks for the comments on the post. I observed the posts
during NSD and was very excited to read different perspectives on the
recruiting class, a clear demonstration of the passion shared by the fans that
only served to reinforce the right decision was made. The skin is very callous LOL, when the 0-and
forever slide happened towards the end of last season, it had to be in order to
deal with other schools and family!


KG is an ectomorph, I had to research that to determine what
strength training program he would respond to the best in 10th
grade. In that picture, he was closer to 235 I believe and carries it like a
basketball player, very noticeable when you try to move him. I am 6'4" and was
closer to 240 in the picture and played QB in high school.




I may not post frequently however I embrace impartial
observations and discussion whether it be from true fans and/or trolls of
BBN. It's a very exciting and challenging
time for him and us and he's currently having to learn two positions and fast!
He's in the 2 deep for the Jack and DE (sometimes first jacks). I think his
technique in high school will really help out a lot now (he played the 4
technique and controlled the B gaps, didn't have the luxury of being a pure
pass rusher with limited responsibilities a la Sweat, Cowart etc…). He played
DE, DT, LB, TE and FB last year so strength was the primary attribute he needed
to have. Hopefully the HPM will help develop more speed and fast twitch needed
to be successful at this level, should be a fun ride!

 

[C1180]

I have suspected for some time that the camps you go to and politics played a huge role in star type evaluations. This explains how there can be such a wide variation in evaluations. I like Wildcard think who coaches offer is likely a much more reliable indicator of a players skills and potential. I have a lot more faith in the opinions of coaches who are professionals and have worked hard at evaluating these kids since their well paying jobs depend on them being right.

 

[CATFANFOLIFE87]

Mr. Daniel the fans here really appreciate your insight. You have unfiltered access to big time football, the recruiting process, and our program so anything you can share going forward is a huge contribution to this board. Welcome to the BBN and I hope being a part of it gives you and your family as much joy as it has us all of our whole lives. Exciting times are ahead and we as fans are indebted to the players and their families that are working hard to give us something special here at UK

I apologize ahead of time for some of the crazies you'll see on this board. Some here mock the idea that players and their family visit this board and post irresponsibly. Those people are the minority and life is easier when you ignore those clowns

 

[jauk11]

^^^^^Well said.

 

[Rhavicc]

Originally posted by CATFANFOLIFE87:
Mr. Daniel the fans here really appreciate your insight. You have unfiltered access to big time football, the recruiting process, and our program so anything you can share going forward is a huge contribution to this board. Welcome to the BBN and I hope being a part of it gives you and your family as much joy as it has us all of our whole lives. Exciting times are ahead and we as fans are indebted to the players and their families that are working hard to give us something special here at UK

I apologize ahead of time for some of the crazies you'll see on this board. Some here mock the idea that players and their family visit this board and post irresponsibly. Those people are the minority and life is easier when you ignore those clowns

And then there are the red ones.

 

[*Bleedingblue*]

Para that is a very good read you posted. It's very interesting to see how these kids are treated by these (underwear companies lol)
I'm very happy that your son chose to come here to be a part of the family. He will always have a spot here in the bluegrass after his playing days are over many years from now.
It's refreshing to read such an insightful post. Thank you.
Welcome to bbn Mr Daniel

 

[C1180]

I am sure that Mr Danial has been around enough to realize that there is crazies and trolls on every board. The best thing is to take most of what you see on these boards with a grain of salt.

 

[jauk11]

Originally posted by Rhavicc:

Originally posted by CATFANFOLIFE87:
Mr. Daniel the fans here really appreciate your insight. You have unfiltered access to big time football, the recruiting process, and our program so anything you can share going forward is a huge contribution to this board. Welcome to the BBN and I hope being a part of it gives you and your family as much joy as it has us all of our whole lives. Exciting times are ahead and we as fans are indebted to the players and their families that are working hard to give us something special here at UK

I apologize ahead of time for some of the crazies you'll see on this board. Some here mock the idea that players and their family visit this board and post irresponsibly. Those people are the minority and life is easier when you ignore those clowns

And then there are the red ones.


Yes, and while they really should come in a bright scarlet from shame a lot of them come disguised in various shades of blue, mostly a dingy blue.