Kansas game, key takeaways

[CatsFanIL]

Here's just a few key takeways from last night's loss to Kentucky
1. Our guys fought more last night then we've seen the last few seasons - something to build on
2. Edwards and Wagner weren't good, at all. No hiding that. But they weren't manhandled, they weren't overpowered
3. Worried about Wagner's shooting - don't want him to be Briscoe or Hagans - but his shot just didn't look good
4. Reed is a stud - costly turnover late, sure - but we're not even "in the game" late without him
5. Rob - get used to it BBN - Rob giveth, and Rob taketh. Two incredibly bad turnovers - but, he did score like 12 points in 90 secs of action. Have to let him play, absolutely, play free - BUT, have to be clear about situations - bad turnover in the last possession of 1st half, bad turnover under 4 mins left, AND a TERRIBLE shot late that he air-balled

I thought the Cats defended really well. It took a career night by Dickinson (without any of our true post players, of course) and a career shooting night from the Kansas PG.

Just for reference, Dejuan Harris in his career was avergaing LESS THAN 1 MADE 3 PER GAME - and last night he didn't just make 5 threes, but he shot 100%. It is what it is. If DJ hit a couple 3s, or Edwards hit a couple 3s, maybe it's a different outcome.

 

[CincyUKFan]

Here's just a few key takeways from last night's loss to Kentucky
1. Our guys fought more last night then we've seen the last few seasons - something to build on
2. Edwards and Wagner weren't good, at all. No hiding that. But they weren't manhandled, they weren't overpowered
3. Worried about Wagner's shooting - don't want him to be Briscoe or Hagans - but his shot just didn't look good
4. Reed is a stud - costly turnover late, sure - but we're not even "in the game" late without him
5. Rob - get used to it BBN - Rob giveth, and Rob taketh. Two incredibly bad turnovers - but, he did score like 12 points in 90 secs of action. Have to let him play, absolutely, play free - BUT, have to be clear about situations - bad turnover in the last possession of 1st half, bad turnover under 4 mins left, AND a TERRIBLE shot late that he air-balled

I thought the Cats defended really well. It took a career night by Dickinson (without any of our true post players, of course) and a career shooting night from the Kansas PG.

Just for reference, Dejuan Harris in his career was avergaing LESS THAN 1 MADE 3 PER GAME - and last night he didn't just make 5 threes, but he shot 100%. It is what it is. If DJ hit a couple 3s, or Edwards hit a couple 3s, maybe it's a different outcome.

2. Edwards absolutely was madhandled, from a physical perspective. This, I would argue, is one of his primary weaknesses. NBA guys are already talking about his lack of strength and physicality on Twitter this morning. He’s soft as Charmin.
3. Wagner’s draft stock is plummeting on account of him clearly having poor shooting mechanics. His jumper is simply broken and teams will sag off of him going forward. Ironically, Cal thinks more minutes will help this kid’s stock. The reality is that a Shaedon Sharpe move would actually be his best bet (I’m not advocating this).

 

[CatsFanIL]

2. Edwards absolutely was madhandled, from a physical perspective. This, I would argue, is one of his primary weaknesses. NBA guys are already talking about his lack of strength and physicality on Twitter this morning. He’s soft as Charmin.
3. Wagner’s draft stock is plummeting on account of him clearly having poor shooting mechanics. His jumper is simply broken and teams will sag off of him going forward. Ironically, Cal thinks more minutes will help this kid’s stock. The reality is that a Shaedon Sharpe move would actually be his best bet (I’m not advocating this).

I don't agree Edwards was manhandled, but he was definitely outmatched. Him going against McCullar and Adams was absolutely him being outmatched. But I'd also add that Self is one of the best defensive coaches in the game - and it didn't help Edwards that Self was clogging the lane with Wagner in the game (like teams would do with Sahvir, Briscoe, Hagans, etc).

Wagner MIGHT help create some open shots for teammates on drives, but he's NOT going to help teammates drive the ball - and using ball-screens will just lead to teams going under, like we did last night against Dejaun Harris - except he went 5-5 from 3...

 

[mcnicKY91]

I don't agree Edwards was manhandled, but he was definitely outmatched. Him going against McCullar and Adams was absolutely him being outmatched. But I'd also add that Self is one of the best defensive coaches in the game - and it didn't help Edwards that Self was clogging the lane with Wagner in the game (like teams would do with Sahvir, Briscoe, Hagans, etc).

Wagner MIGHT help create some open shots for teammates on drives, but he's NOT going to help teammates drive the ball - and using ball-screens will just lead to teams going under, like we did last night against Dejaun Harris - except he went 5-5 from 3...

It will be interesting to see how Edwards is ultimately used this year. I know we are only 3 games in, but he is not as advertised.

Is it just me, or does he look super slow? He can't beat anybody off the dribble, his shot, while looking nice for a lefty, has dreadful results (airballing wide open 3s), and he seems to have trouble getting off the ground (got rejected by the rim). His handles are extremely poor from what I have seen thus far.

Hoping he turns it around, but he seems to be lacking quite a bit at the college level.

 

[Cats192]

It felt like Edwards wasn't out there a lot of the game despite playing so many minutes.

I think the defense really affected him and he wasn't sure what to do.

He had a few short shots/dunks not go his way/get swiped on the way up. I think he let it affect his entire game.

He only had 4 rebounds. I'd like to see him really attack the glass on a night where his offense isn't coming.

 

[Greatestalltime]

If we play Kansas later in the year we will win. We have guards for the first time in a while. Wagner will be ok, but Reed and Rob are both better imo.

Edwards is overrated and we can all hope one of his few nice games will be in the tourney.

Different team with any one of the 7 footers.

 

[docholiday51]

We played better and tougher than I thought we could/would given that we had 8 guys to put out there. We have to get 1 or 2 of the 7 footers on the floor. Maybe Edwards comes around soon but he has to play given our short numbers right now.

We had a real chance to win, the last 20 seconds of the first half probably cost us the game. This looks like the grittiest team we have had in the past 3 or so years ,we have basketball players instead of just athletes playing basketball.

It sucks that we didn't pull this one out, Mitchell Burks and Thiero just ran out of gas in the late stages of the game and who can blame them. They gave it all they had for as long as they could. Hopefully Z gets cleared soon, I can't help but think Bradshaw should be ready to be on the court by now.

This is a team that is fun to watch and plays a better type of basketball than we have seen from recent UK teams. We would have soundly beaten either of the other 2 teams in the event last night.

 

[JonathanW]

Here's just a few key takeways from last night's loss to Kentucky
1. Our guys fought more last night then we've seen the last few seasons - something to build on
2. Edwards and Wagner weren't good, at all. No hiding that. But they weren't manhandled, they weren't overpowered
3. Worried about Wagner's shooting - don't want him to be Briscoe or Hagans - but his shot just didn't look good
4. Reed is a stud - costly turnover late, sure - but we're not even "in the game" late without him
5. Rob - get used to it BBN - Rob giveth, and Rob taketh. Two incredibly bad turnovers - but, he did score like 12 points in 90 secs of action. Have to let him play, absolutely, play free - BUT, have to be clear about situations - bad turnover in the last possession of 1st half, bad turnover under 4 mins left, AND a TERRIBLE shot late that he air-balled

I thought the Cats defended really well. It took a career night by Dickinson (without any of our true post players, of course) and a career shooting night from the Kansas PG.

Just for reference, Dejuan Harris in his career was avergaing LESS THAN 1 MADE 3 PER GAME - and last night he didn't just make 5 threes, but he shot 100%. It is what it is. If DJ hit a couple 3s, or Edwards hit a couple 3s, maybe it's a different outcome.

Just adding to above.
1) Last night was the type of play we've not seen since Fox et-all.
2) Edwards is clearly better than he played last night.
3) Wagner is not a shooter. But he's not Briscoe or Hagans or Wheeler either. He's more Andrew Harrison. So as he learns to play to his strengths he will improve.
4) you hit the nail on the head with Dillingham, he will be +10 at times, and -5 at times. If you try to take away the -5 moments, you likely will also loose the +10 moments.
5) Sheppard is good. He had a couple of bad moments, but more good than bad for sure.
6) Mitchell did disappear on offense, but maybe he was using all his energy on Dickinson
7) I've been the one saying on here all summer and fall that Theiro will force Cal to play him. And I was right. He is our best rebounder (even after the 7-footers start playing), he is our best all-around defender, and he gets to the FT line at a great rate (last year 1 FT every 5.85min; this year 1 FT every 4.64min).
8) Reeves doesn't need to shoot 25 shots, no one (unless having a Meeks-vs-UT or Monk-vs-UNC game) should shoot 25 shots. It looked late in the game like the guys all deferred to him to get baskets. Hopefully that is just their youth, and they grow out of that quick. This team offensively needs to be balanced, so anyone can explode for a period of time.
9) Burks gave us good energy, and good minutes from the last playable guy off the bench.
10) This team will be very good because of 2 things: #1 our defense, and #2 our ballhandling.

 

[CatsFanIL]

It will be interesting to see how Edwards is ultimately used this year. I know we are only 3 games in, but he is not as advertised.

Is it just me, or does he look super slow? He can't beat anybody off the dribble, his shot, while looking nice for a lefty, has dreadful results (airballing wide open 3s), and he seems to have trouble getting off the ground (got rejected by the rim). His handles are extremely poor from what I have seen thus far.

Hoping he turns it around, but he seems to be lacking quite a bit at the college level.

I think I posted it in another thread, but it'll be interesting to see if Edwards gets the BJ Boston treatment - longest leash possible, too many minutes not "earned", preferential treatment, etc. Or....

Does he get the EJ Montogomery (freshman year) treatment - ended up averaging 15 minutes a game.

 

[CatsFanIL]

Just adding to above.
1) Last night was the type of play we've not seen since Fox et-all.
2) Edwards is clearly better than he played last night.
3) Wagner is not a shooter. But he's not Briscoe or Hagans or Wheeler either. He's more Andrew Harrison. So as he learns to play to his strengths he will improve.
4) you hit the nail on the head with Dillingham, he will be +10 at times, and -5 at times. If you try to take away the -5 moments, you likely will also loose the +10 moments.
5) Sheppard is good. He had a couple of bad moments, but more good than bad for sure.
6) Mitchell did disappear on offense, but maybe he was using all his energy on Dickinson
7) I've been the one saying on here all summer and fall that Theiro will force Cal to play him. And I was right. He is our best rebounder (even after the 7-footers start playing), he is our best all-around defender, and he gets to the FT line at a great rate (last year 1 FT every 5.85min; this year 1 FT every 4.64min).
8) Reeves doesn't need to shoot 25 shots, no one (unless having a Meeks-vs-UT or Monk-vs-UNC game) should shoot 25 shots. It looked late in the game like the guys all deferred to him to get baskets. Hopefully that is just their youth, and they grow out of that quick. This team offensively needs to be balanced, so anyone can explode for a period of time.
9) Burks gave us good energy, and good minutes from the last playable guy off the bench.
10) This team will be very good because of 2 things: #1 our defense, and #2 our ballhandling.

Good points - I agree with most everything you said.

I'll make a bet that Andrew Harrison's numbers from 3-pt range are better than Wagner's. I don't think Wagner is Sahvir (at least first year at UK), but if he keeps shooting it the way he is, I think that's the treatment he's going to start getting

Look at what we did with Harris last night - he was averaging less than 1 made 3pt shot per game in his career, and we were just daring him to shoot it. We win that game if he doesn't go 5-5. Can Wagner go 5-5 if teams decided to do that?

Reeves getting 25 shots is almost hard to believe, with Cal being adamantly opposed to that. With that said, it was a much more uptempo/fast-paced game than the last few years, so more shots to be had. They were sagging of Adou, and he didn't look like he wanted to shoot it. Mitchell had a terrible mismatch, not many shots for him. And then yes, maybe some young guys deferring - but they also got off quite a few shots too, aside from Edwards maybe

 

[blackcat714]

2. Edwards absolutely was madhandled, from a physical perspective. This, I would argue, is one of his primary weaknesses. NBA guys are already talking about his lack of strength and physicality on Twitter this morning. He’s soft as Charmin.
3. Wagner’s draft stock is plummeting on account of him clearly having poor shooting mechanics. His jumper is simply broken and teams will sag off of him going forward. Ironically, Cal thinks more minutes will help this kid’s stock. The reality is that a Shaedon Sharpe move would actually be his best bet (I’m not advocating this).

Wagner better do a Shar pay if he wanrs to get drafted i kinda would not mind

 

[Cobb4uk]

Here's just a few key takeways from last night's loss to Kentucky
1. Our guys fought more last night then we've seen the last few seasons - something to build on
2. Edwards and Wagner weren't good, at all. No hiding that. But they weren't manhandled, they weren't overpowered
3. Worried about Wagner's shooting - don't want him to be Briscoe or Hagans - but his shot just didn't look good
4. Reed is a stud - costly turnover late, sure - but we're not even "in the game" late without him
5. Rob - get used to it BBN - Rob giveth, and Rob taketh. Two incredibly bad turnovers - but, he did score like 12 points in 90 secs of action. Have to let him play, absolutely, play free - BUT, have to be clear about situations - bad turnover in the last possession of 1st half, bad turnover under 4 mins left, AND a TERRIBLE shot late that he air-balled

I thought the Cats defended really well. It took a career night by Dickinson (without any of our true post players, of course) and a career shooting night from the Kansas PG.

Just for reference, Dejuan Harris in his career was avergaing LESS THAN 1 MADE 3 PER GAME - and last night he didn't just make 5 threes, but he shot 100%. It is what it is. If DJ hit a couple 3s, or Edwards hit a couple 3s, maybe it's a different outcome.

When you play a game against the number 1 team in the nation that has 5 Seniors, 2 Sophmores and 1 Freshmen in their top 8 your likely to lose. UK has 2 Seniors, 1 Sophmore and 9 Freshmen and 3 7'0"'s that didn't play due to injury. Also, this was really the first real game in the lime like for our freshmem. Edward's facing McMullan, a Grad Senior, was a real mismatch at this juncture of the season. Wagner and Edward's 1-18 killed us.

 

[AzubuikeandFitch]

It will be interesting to see how Edwards is ultimately used this year. I know we are only 3 games in, but he is not as advertised.

Is it just me, or does he look super slow? He can't beat anybody off the dribble, his shot, while looking nice for a lefty, has dreadful results (airballing wide open 3s), and he seems to have trouble getting off the ground (got rejected by the rim). His handles are extremely poor from what I have seen thus far.

Hoping he turns it around, but he seems to be lacking quite a bit at the college level.

He bought into the hype. Klutch gave Edwards a shoe deal with New Balance and he thought he'd cruise control to a big night.
Avoids physical contact and seems afraid to get hurt so he plays at 65-70%.