Jalen Rose reaction to Jay Williams saying Lebron would dominate MJ 1-on-1

[BlueManToo]

Because LeBron won more earlier in his career and didn't take two years off to play baseball. If he had quit for two seasons folks would crucify him for not loving the game or having competitive drive

When LeBron's father is murdered at the height of his fame like MJ's was, we can discuss the merit of whether LBJ would be excoriated for stepping away from the game. Likewise, it further speaks to Jordan's greatness that he could step away for 2 seasons, train for a totally different sport, return to the NBA 2 years older, and resume his dominance in 3 more Finals.

6 Championship and 6 Finals MVP's will be hard to ever top, IMO.

 

[Orange Soda King]

LeBron has a streaky jump shot. If his jump shot is on, he can shoot over Jordan. If not, Jordan all day.

 

[Kenkentucky]

I’ve never seen a player like MJ who won so much when it counted, get bored, and then walk away from the sport. No single player including LeBron has risen to that level. As far as his supporting cast they became all stars around him not by themselves and then joining him. He had an edge alone with the talent to back it up and that’s hard to beat on any level. Five on five one on one whatever, I would not bet against that combination of talent and Moxie to his degree. That’s what made him special and others raise their level of play around him. It’s not even an argument he walked away!!!!!

 

[NC Weasel]

Completely different players, so in their prime it would be interesting.

However, Jordan's competitiveness is legendary. Lebron has some of that, but I'm not sure it matches MJ. Jordan had a mean streak, a chip on his shoulder that I have to believe would be tough to beat.

Also, no one thought the Bulls had much behind MJ besides Pippen. I mean KLove vs BCartwright? Some spot up shooters on both teams. The NBA was a wrestling match back in the day. Especially at playoff time. Today, not so much. It's a stars league today.

 

[BlueRunner11]

In this fantasy game of one on one were talking about, does Lebron get to flop?

Just need to know before I make my final decision.

 

[Kuhldaddy]

So if Lebron takes his average teammates to the finals this year and loses to the assembled mega superstar team named the Warriors will his haters again say he choked in The finals?

 

[Cindog28]

Three pages.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Thankfully it didn't always matter in the first round of the playoffs.

I'm told, by some, that such losses don't matter when considering the greater comparative body of work - a narrative routinely floated around here whenever UK loses in March.

So I guess MJ gets a pass as well for his 1980s playoff discretions.

 

[GonzoCat90]

I'm told, by some, that such losses don't matter when considering the greater comparative body of work - a narrative routinely floated around here whenever UK loses in March.

So I guess MJ gets a pass as well for his 1980s playoff discretions.

Tell me you aren't taking a faceless general argument made by a few biased fans and applying it across topics to an entirely different argument with entirely different participants. That's awful.

The entire "Jordan would never let a team lose! (except for all the times he did, which don't count) is why the debate is essentially useless. Your minds were made up before LeBron or anyone else ever played a second of NBA basketball and the rest has been confirmation bias to nostalgia and childhood hero worship.

 

[Untouchables22]

So if Lebron takes his average teammates to the finals this year and loses to the assembled mega superstar team named the Warriors will his haters again say he choked in The finals?

No...but he did choke like a dog against the Mavs and that's all it takes to lose this argument when you're chasing the GOAT.

 

[JimboBBN]

Michael Jordan would beat LBJ, not sure it would be close either. The head game would play a lot into it. MJ would make LeBron cry before the ball was even checked.

 

[jeffbuckies]

MJ is clearly the GOAT. If you don't think so then it's because you don't like that he went to unc or you don't like the past. Either way, dumb reason to say Lebron is better.

 

[MWes11]

If you are team Jordan, no one will change your mind. If you are team LeBron, no one will change your mind. Pretty simple really.

 

[jwphelps]

That show sucks...also, Jay is correct. LeBron would kill MJ one on one.

LBJ has passed MJ as the GOAT. People still hanging onto MJ need to accept it. And, this is coming from a HUGE MJ fan.

Do you really think LBJ could guard MJ, not saying MJ could stop LBJ but Lebron is not stopping MJ either. Skill wise MJ is superior.

 

[JC CATS]

That show sucks...also, Jay is correct. LeBron would kill MJ one on one.

LBJ has passed MJ as the GOAT. People still hanging onto MJ need to accept it. And, this is coming from a HUGE MJ fan.

So, what you are saying is, you have never watched MJ play. Nothing wrong with that, maybe you are a youngin

 

[JC CATS]

FAIL

Jordan dominated in an era when handchecking was allowed and there was no defensive 3-second rule. Defenders could use their hands to impede Jordan, and when he got into the lane there was a big man camping in the paint waiting to hammer him.

Jordan would average 40+ ppg if he played his whole career in today's era. No handchecking, no camping in the lane on defense, flagrant fouls on EVERY hard foul... that's like Christmas for MJ.

Jordan played against the bad boys in Detroit. LBJ never had to face that either

 

[AzubuikeandFitch]

Anybody who thinks Lebron would win was born after 90. The game is all about offense and entertainment now. The Detriot Pistons didn't have "The Jordan Rules" for nothing. James is a transcendent player but he doesn't have MJ's killer instinct.

 

[BlueBlood66]

Anybody who thinks Lebron would win was born after 90. The game is all about offense and entertainment now. The Detriot Pistons didn't have "The Jordan Rules" for nothing. James is a transcendent player but he doesn't have MJ's killer instinct.

Where was that killer instinct in the first round?

 

[villefan76]

I’d rather see a game of Jordan & Kobe 1on1 with no ref. Much better game in my opinion. But for the record, I’d pick Jordan over LeBron all day. Like others have said, MJ would be in LeBron’s head before the game even started.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Tell me you aren't taking a faceless general argument made by a few biased fans and applying it across topics to an entirely different argument with entirely different participants. That's awful.

The entire "Jordan would never let a team lose! (except for all the times he did, which don't count) is why the debate is essentially useless. Your minds were made up before LeBron or anyone else ever played a second of NBA basketball and the rest has been confirmation bias to nostalgia and childhood hero worship.

I won’t assume your point with MJ/LBJ based on loose inferences so I’ll ask you directly: do you place less weight on James losing in the Finals 5/8 times than you do Jordan losing in the first round of the playoffs?

If so, who gets to decide the value in such a comparison and act as ultimate arbitrator? You? If that’s the case, that’s perfectly fine on a subjective level, but you’d be offering just another example of someone who is selectively choosing the criteria you want to highlight at the expense of conflicting analysis.

Additionally, I have no real horse in this race. Just as it the case for my lack of real knowledge about your MJ/LBJ views, you know little of my views towards MJ/LeBron ("childhood hero worship" was a funny line, by the way), outside of the limited output I’ve offered in this thread. I actually think there is room for LBJ to eclipse MJ on a clearer level. I don’t think it’s been accomplished yet, however, and I’m certainly open to a much more thorough analysis that anyone can offer.

 

[Ryan Lemonds Diary]

That show sucks...also, Jay is correct. LeBron would kill MJ one on one.

LBJ has passed MJ as the GOAT. People still hanging onto MJ need to accept it. And, this is coming from a HUGE MJ fan.

Just curious but in your opinion what has LBJ done to surpass Jordan as the GOAT? I am not trying to say your not correct but being a Jordan fan what has swayed your opinion.

 

[Bigblueduck]

Air Jordan just sounds better than King James! King James isn’t even original. My bible says so!

 

[kb22stang]

LeBron definitely takes the one-on-one in my opinion. That said, if they were surrounded by the exact same talent level, in a game of five- on-five, MJ all day. Jordan made others around him better, LeBron has funny videos where his teammates are apologizing to him. In his prime, Jordan could have the same team and have us all saying, he has a great supporting group.

I love this nonsense, Jordan didn't win anything until the Bulls hired one of the best coaches in the history of the NBA, put a top 50 player next to him, and surrounded those folks role players (shooters, defenders, facilitators and rebounders). That same group payed damn well without Jordan too.

No team that Lebron left has been worth a damn.

Jordan is the better player
Lebron makes folks around him better (moreso than MJ)
I don't see how MJ defends Lebron in one on one, too big, too strong and too athletic
In a one on one match I see it very close but Lebron wins a few more just because of the size mismatch.

 

[MWes11]

Not sure why people act like it is blasphemy to put them on a similar plateau as far as skills. What Lebron is doing in his 15th NBA season is just absurd and unparalleled. He is still the best overall player in the league. Averaging 34, 9, and 9 shooting 55% from the field in the playoffs this year. If you want to say Jordan is a better winner and killer scorer, that's fine. But there isn't much of a question as far as basketball skills that they are in the same conversation, and LeBron probably better overall basketball skill set.

 

[ObjectivelyModerate]

Lebron would back down Michael and score maybe the first 3 or 4 times. After that, Lebron would tire physically and emotionally just as Michael's hyper-competitive anger was kicking in. MJ, with his quickness advantage and unquenchable drive to win, would shoot and dunk on and around LJ and would win by 10 points at least.

 

[GonzoCat90]

I won’t assume your point with MJ/LBJ based on loose inferences so I’ll ask you directly: do you place less weight on James losing in the Finals 5/8 times than you do Jordan losing in the first round of the playoffs?

If so, who gets to decide the value in such a comparison and act as ultimate arbitrator? You? If that’s the case, that’s perfectly fine on a subjective level, but you’d be offering just another example of someone who is selectively choosing the criteria you want to highlight at the expense of conflicting analysis.

Additionally, I have no real horse in this race. Just as it the case for my lack of real knowledge about your MJ/LBJ views, you know little of my views towards MJ/LeBron ("childhood hero worship" was a funny line, by the way), outside of the limited output I’ve offered in this thread. I actually think there is room for LBJ to eclipse MJ on a clearer level. I don’t think it’s been accomplished yet, however, and I’m certainly open to a much more thorough analysis that anyone can offer.

Yes, I do, particularly with context. We essentially penalize LeBron's perception because he was good enough to take bad teams to the finals early in his career. Jordan didn't make it until surrounded by help.

It's absurd for losing in the finals to be a negative while people ignore several examples of losing earlier than that by the "competition." I'm not the one acting as arbitrator, but I would expect that sports fans (or anyone with logical processing) can understand and accept the nature of advancing in a tournament, the level of competition, etc.

I think you also have to look at the competition. If LeBron loses to a clearly superior Warriors team this year, that doesn't tarnish anything anymore than it would be a knock that Jordan "couldn't beat" a team with 4 top 25 players of his era on it. 22-year-old LeBron and the worst team to ever make the Finals losing to the Duncan dynasty Spurs isn't a detraction from his greatness.

 

[BlueBlood66]

Lebron would back down Michael and score maybe the first 3 or 4 times. After that, Lebron would tire physically and emotionally just as Michael's hyper-competitive anger was kicking in. MJ, with his quickness advantage and unquenchable drive to win, would shoot and dunk on and around LJ and would win by 10 points at least.

What if the one on one game is to only three baskets?

 

[ObjectivelyModerate]

Yes, I do, particularly with context. We essentially penalize LeBron's perception because he was good enough to take bad teams to the finals early in his career. Jordan didn't make it until surrounded by help.

It's absurd for losing in the finals to be a negative while people ignore several examples of losing earlier than that by the "competition." I'm not the one acting as arbitrator, but I would expect that sports fans (or anyone with logical processing) can understand and accept the nature of advancing in a tournament, the level of competition, etc.

I think you also have to look at the competition. If LeBron loses to a clearly superior Warriors team this year, that doesn't tarnish anything anymore than it would be a knock that Jordan "couldn't beat" a team with 4 top 25 players of his era on it. 22-year-old LeBron and the worst team to ever make the Finals losing to the Duncan dynasty Spurs isn't a detraction from his greatness.

Lebron lost to a supremely overmatched Mavs team at his peak in 2011. Since creating "super teams", Lebron's teams have twice lost in the finals 4-1. Lebron has played in a significantly weakened Eastern Conference for his entire career. LJ is a great player but he isn't MJ. Why do some people have to push this argument every year.

 

[ObjectivelyModerate]

What if the one on one game is to only three baskets?

Then Lebron could definitely win. Anything over 5 baskets, MJ dominates.

 

[coolioo1]

1990s gurading or 2010 guarding. Lebron would not know what to do with the pushing and shoving that was allowed to stop the first step of players. Today, you get a free first step on all players.

Jordan always did what was needed to win, Lebron, not so much.

The only other player that I think could beat MJ one on one is shockingly Bird. He was maybe the only player that could match MJ's clutch and mental aspect of the game.

MJ and Bird would have Lebron crying after the second possession with Trash Talk.

 

[michaeluk26]

Opinion not fact. Evidence shows the 1996 Bulls team > the 2016 Golden State team. Cleveland only won that series because the NBA intervened after that series was 3-1..by suspending Draymond Green. Changed the whole series. So bogus.

That's bullshit. Golden state had 2 more chances, with the game 7 home court advantage and still got punked by LeBron, who had the greatest finals performance ever.
What about the year before when Cleveland didn't have Kyrie or Love and LeBron still took the series 6 games?

 

[wildcatsboston1984]

FAIL

Jordan dominated in an era when handchecking was allowed and there was no defensive 3-second rule. Defenders could use their hands to impede Jordan, and when he got into the lane there was a big man camping in the paint waiting to hammer him.

Jordan would average 40+ ppg if he played his whole career in today's era. No handchecking, no camping in the lane on defense, flagrant fouls on EVERY hard foul... that's like Christmas for MJ.

lol no. He also lived in an era where it was impossible to double team and to run many of the more complex defenses in today's game because of illegal defense rules.

And to turn your statement around, that also means the way Jordan played defense would be impossible for him in a one on one matchup with LeBron.

 

[GonzoCat90]

Lebron lost to a supremely overmatched Mavs team at his peak in 2011. Since creating "super teams", Lebron's teams have twice lost in the finals 4-1. Lebron has played in a significantly weakened Eastern Conference for his entire career. LJ is a great player but he isn't MJ. Why do some people have to push this argument every year.

I believe that Mavs series was 4-2.

Dirk, Kidd, Marion, Butler, Terry, Chandler, Odom, Peja, isn't supremely overmatched. The Heat had LeBron, Wade and Bosh, but the rest of the roster was Haslem, Chalmers, and guys who were completely finished. It was also their first season together.

That same Mavs team swept the Lakers and beat the Durant/Westbrook/Harden/Green/Ibaka Thunder in 5 games.

 

[BlueBlood66]

Jordan always did what was needed to win, Lebron, not so much.

.

Why did he have all those first round exits then?

 

[JoeBeeHall]

Since bb is a team game then Bill Russell with the most titles wins.

 

[wildcatsboston1984]

Nice try.... was the season/finals on the line in either of those situations? Nope... at worst, finals would be tied if the role player doesn't make the shot, not going down a virtually insurmountable 3-1 deficit like LeBron was content to chance with Korver in the corner. Hell, LeBron was chastised by Kobe for not not nuttin' up for a game winner in a freakin' All-Star game, LOL!!! Again, LBJ made the right basketball play, but not a winning basketball play.

Lest we forget: the first "Super Team" of LBJ, Wade, and Bosh lost in 6 games to the freakin Dallas Mavericks! The average fan couldn't name one other player on that Mavs team beyond Dirk Nowitzki... A Jordan team does not lose that series. Period!

Like I said, when it came nut-cuttin' time, Jordan's resume speaks for itself, LeBron's not so much.

The right basketball plays are the winning basketball plays. If you're always making the wrong basketball play then you are losing every game.

 

[Pope John Wall II]

When LeBron's father is murdered at the height of his fame like MJ's was, we can discuss the merit of whether LBJ would be excoriated for stepping away from the game.

When LeBron gets his own father murdered for his own gambling debts, that would be an interesting conversation to have.

 

[StevieJFTW07]

That's bullshit. Golden state had 2 more chances, with the game 7 home court advantage and still got punked by LeBron, who had the greatest finals performance ever.
What about the year before when Cleveland didn't have Kyrie or Love and LeBron still took the series 6 games?

It's not "bullshit"..Golden State was comfortably kicking Bron Bron and Cleveland's ass and then the NBA stepped in and suspended Green and that changed the entire series around. Game 7 was too late. There's a thing called MOMENTUM..Cleveland had it all for game 7 after the NBA gave it to them with that bogus suspension. And I hate Draymond Green, btw.

 

[StevieJFTW07]

That's bullshit. Golden state had 2 more chances, with the game 7 home court advantage and still got punked by LeBron, who had the greatest finals performance ever.
What about the year before when Cleveland didn't have Kyrie or Love and LeBron still took the series 6 games?

And what about when Bron Bron got absolutely embarrassingly "punked" by the outmanned Dirk and the fighting Dirks Mavs four games straight after leading 2-0 and gloating about their 2-0 lead to Dirk ? Ya know when he had a super Miami team with Wade and Bosh ? Lmao.

 

[EastKYWildcat]

FAIL

Jordan dominated in an era when handchecking was allowed and there was no defensive 3-second rule. Defenders could use their hands to impede Jordan, and when he got into the lane there was a big man camping in the paint waiting to hammer him.

Jordan would average 40+ ppg if he played his whole career in today's era. No handchecking, no camping in the lane on defense, flagrant fouls on EVERY hard foul... that's like Christmas for MJ.

Not really. Those rules were changed because Jordan couldn't handle that. That's what the pistons did to him and he could not beat them. Jordan got every call later on. You weren't allowed to guard him.