I'm not. But evolution isn't the topic you started. It was about how life started, not how it developed once it DID start.
For those who follow creationism, what are the most convincing arguments in favor of creationism?
- Thread starter KAB Cats
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Sort of a tangent, and I'm sure most of you are familiar with The Great Filter, but for those of you who are not, here is an interesting piece on why it would be devastating for humans to discover life forms in our own galaxy. (If you believe in abiogenesis)
It’s a valid statement, but that’s also why I posted this — to learn the arguments of creationists.
The disagreement appears to be more distinctly between young earth creationists and the theory of evolution since evolution makes no claim on creation.
I would also assume that places like the Creation Museum here in Kentucky espouse young earth theory creationism (might be wrong there). Typically when I think of creationism, thats the ideology I associate it with, but it is true that creationism doesn’t exclude evolution in the same way evolution doesn’t exclude creationism
Evolution doesn’t anything to do with the origin of life. It deals with the processes of change.
Intelligent Design is usually set opposite Evolution. The greatest argument in favor of Intelligent Design is the staggering odds of a particular life form emerging. The greatest argument against intelligent design is Evil.
Intelligent Design is usually set opposite Evolution. The greatest argument in favor of Intelligent Design is the staggering odds of a particular life form emerging. The greatest argument against intelligent design is Evil.
How do we know the odds off life emerging are staggering?
Also, intelligent design may exclude evolution, but also not necessarily — to be accurate
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Discussions like this over complicate the entire topic. From an evidentiary standpoint, I have my own "evidence" so to speak: studying the Bible, it's teachings, and how it is so spot on in regards to how we should live our life, and that we all fail every day; applying God's word to the design of the world we live in and how it is in perfect order; witnessing the birth of my children and wondering how anyone could ever question the existence of a creator.
I'm not trying to talk down to you here, but do you have any idea of the enormous complexity of a single living cell? It dwarfs any machine that man has ever created. You'd have a better chance of finding a 1976 Chevy Camaro, that just came into being, and is under a glacier somewhere than you would of finding a cell that did so. That's what I meant when I said the Saturn V rocket, which many regard as the most complex machine that man has ever built, is like tinker toys compared to a cell.
Some of the greatest minds in history have been trying to prove abiogenesis and they are no closer now, than when they started over 70 years ago. And that is in controlled and manipulated environment where they are trying to give life a "shortcut" so to speak. Which, if you think about it, is acting in the role of the creator. LOL
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Historically speaking, humans have always thought themselves more unique than they actually are. We thought we were the center of the solar system. We were not. We thought we were the center of the universe, we are not.
We can’t say absolutely that we aren’t unique. I think it’s one of the plausible explanations to the great filter, actually.
However, the things we are made of are also widespread through an apparently near infinite universe that spans billions of years. So, there’s that .
The odds of a particular life form.
Well, you don’t since in hindsight everything that happens had a probability of 1. We don’t have a perspective. But we do have trillions or so of other life forms so we know that there have always been other ways for life to go.
Thank you. That’s what this always comes down to. A nonsense phrase based on absolutely nothing. There could literally be 1,000,000 earths with 1,000,000 human like life forms going on right this second that we have no clue about. In 2004 I believe we only had like 24% of the brain mapped out. Like we’re so f*cking stupid we don’t even understand our own internal organs or our own oceans yet somehow people have deduced that the chances of something as great as us being made cannot be replicated - based on absolutely nothing. Like legitimately nothing. We can barely fly to a neighboring planet out of trillions yet we’re convinced of our special uniqueness.
There COULD be, but we're talking about THIS one. And on THIS one there is no evidence to back up the theory of abiogenesis. I'm not putting you down for believing in that. But you can at least be intellectually honest and admit that it is every bit as "faith based" as believing in a creator. LOL
You guys really get bent out of shape about this, don't you. 😆 😆
Like I said, I think most of it stems from ignorance about what would actually be involved in life coming from nothing, and the odds we're talking about. That's cool though.
It's a common tale. The romance disappears, they both get caught up in the day to day drudgery, and start taking each other for granted.
The only thing I believe in is humans are clueless morons. You for example. You have no idea what the odds of us “coming from nothing is”. Like no clue. You don’t even know what that means. You can’t even comprehend nothing. Because you’re not advanced enough or capable enough to process that thought. None of us are. Look at the pictures from the James Webb telescope. They’re dizzying. And not just because they show how small earth is, but because we have no clue what the hell 99% of the pictures even show or mean. The only certainty is those that act certain about the universe are dumber than the rest.
I tend to think that the conditions needed for life may be more rare than that.
OK, will chime in.
I am faith based but that may not be what it appears on the surface.
I believe that some number of billions of years ago something triggered a creation event, the universe was generated with unfathomable energy. We can calculate and evaluate the expansion of the universe with our current limited understanding, tools, and capabilities. I believe this to be fact. That is my belief based on facts as I understand them, conceding that we as a species are still woefully immature in our informational journey.
I also believe that it is highly unlikely that we are the only intelligent life in the universe. The math don't work in the same way that I don't believe the math for random generation of life. Too much area to properly contemplate for us to be alone, too much random for life to be spontaneous. It is too complex, we can ponder the possibilities but at the end of the day we cannot create the simplest of life from scratch but somehow complex, introspective, math and art capable beings just emerge.
One of the lead scientists on the human genome project stated it this way, you can look at the human body/brain as a computer, DNA the software. The odds of random human development are the same as if a tornado hit a junk yard and a fully functioning super computer left in its wake. Oh...and who would be writing the software, not the tornado?
I have faith that this was initiated on this grand scale by creative intelligence. My faith is based on my personal experiences as a human. My study and exploration. I believe that my creator made this place for us, and places potentially for others, process is not important to me, only curiosity, and the existence of other beings does not alter that view or faith.
I am OK if someone passionately believes one view over the other, but for the life of me I am baffled that so many people cannot wrap thoughts around the coexistence of both realities.
GBB!!
I am faith based but that may not be what it appears on the surface.
I believe that some number of billions of years ago something triggered a creation event, the universe was generated with unfathomable energy. We can calculate and evaluate the expansion of the universe with our current limited understanding, tools, and capabilities. I believe this to be fact. That is my belief based on facts as I understand them, conceding that we as a species are still woefully immature in our informational journey.
I also believe that it is highly unlikely that we are the only intelligent life in the universe. The math don't work in the same way that I don't believe the math for random generation of life. Too much area to properly contemplate for us to be alone, too much random for life to be spontaneous. It is too complex, we can ponder the possibilities but at the end of the day we cannot create the simplest of life from scratch but somehow complex, introspective, math and art capable beings just emerge.
One of the lead scientists on the human genome project stated it this way, you can look at the human body/brain as a computer, DNA the software. The odds of random human development are the same as if a tornado hit a junk yard and a fully functioning super computer left in its wake. Oh...and who would be writing the software, not the tornado?
I have faith that this was initiated on this grand scale by creative intelligence. My faith is based on my personal experiences as a human. My study and exploration. I believe that my creator made this place for us, and places potentially for others, process is not important to me, only curiosity, and the existence of other beings does not alter that view or faith.
I am OK if someone passionately believes one view over the other, but for the life of me I am baffled that so many people cannot wrap thoughts around the coexistence of both realities.
GBB!!
WildcatfaninOhio
All-American
Is that one of Donna Smith's nipples? (really really old Paddock joke)Yeah lets look at that James Webb telescope!
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Because SOMEBODY has to work for the government?
They CAN actually calculate the odds, and have done so. Stop being a luddite.
The odds of anything "coming from nothing" is zero. It has never happened and never will. "Nothing" is absent of anything. What part of this definition is moronic?
Say, for example, you had a sealed off room....no air, molecules, gases, etc, were in this room. Nothing whatsoever. Please enlighten us on what could be created from what is inside.
This is point often missed. Evolution does not disprove creationism. Its two entirely different subjects.
I still dont see anyone addressed my question of creation or matter or anti matter. The perpetuity of the universe in terms of vastness and time is a clear indication something created all this.
Please go ask a monkey how a spaceship works and then you’ll get an idea of what it’s like listening to humans talk about how life started.
Oh they have? The same people that couldn’t figure out if Pluto was a planet or not and still don’t even know how many animals are in the ocean and still don’t even have a full understanding of our own body? They already figured out the creation of life and its odds? Cool, I’m sure that won’t have a completely different answer in 1,000 years. Humans have been around what? 300,000 years? Let’s say they make it half as long as dinosaurs and we last 75 million years before going extinct. How dumb do you think they’ll think we are by then? Can you imagine? We’ll be the equivalent of baboons to them.
The low estimates of how many planets there are is 2 trillion. The high is 20 sextillion (I’m not even going to go there lol). If we’re right (we’re not, because we’re completely clueless and can barely get to the moon) and there are 2 trillion than 1 million planets having human life is insanely rare.
I don’t think we as humans can really comprehend these large numbers. For example 1 million seconds is 12 days.1 billion seconds is 31 years. 1 trillion seconds is 31,700 years! So if it’s true there are 2 trillion planets than its equivalent to 64,000 years. If there are 1 million planets with human life that would be 12 days out of 64,000 years - that’s insanely low odds! Now image if we actually had 20 sextillion planets! 1 million would be almost the minimum you can even measure.
Jesus has nothing to do with creationism. Completely separate testaments!
At this point, my main concern is keeping this thread active, because I bet the over.
I could inflame this thread and say that God hates Jewish people or something, but in the mean time, Im not getting a lot of arguments in favor of young earth creationism.
Bible clearly states that the earth is not the result of evolution, but God's direct creation, but even this is irrelevant since the science in favor of evolution is also incorrect.
For instance, there are fossils of trees that span strata supposedly spanning millions of years. How can this be possible? Furthermore, the exercise of taxonomic speciation is based on inference that lacks hard facts and at most is a categorization of similar traits.
It is possible that species adapt over time, but what is not possible is for new species to be formed over time. How can this even be true if monkeys coexist alongside humans? Further evidence of this is that when you take the example of birds coming from dinosaurs, we have fossils of birds inside dinosaurs. The contradiction there is self-explanatory.
The salination of the oceans was the result of God's creation, and further compounded in lieu of the great floods.
Bible clearly states that the earth is not the result of evolution, but God's direct creation, but even this is irrelevant since the science in favor of evolution is also incorrect.
For instance, there are fossils of trees that span strata supposedly spanning millions of years. How can this be possible? Furthermore, the exercise of taxonomic speciation is based on inference that lacks hard facts and at most is a categorization of similar traits.
It is possible that species adapt over time, but what is not possible is for new species to be formed over time. How can this even be true if monkeys coexist alongside humans? Further evidence of this is that when you take the example of birds coming from dinosaurs, we have fossils of birds inside dinosaurs. The contradiction there is self-explanatory.
The salination of the oceans was the result of God's creation, and further compounded in lieu of the great floods.
I was in the military, and I did work for FCPS but I worked as a software engineer after I graduated college and before I started with FCPS.
Although, unless you're a certified employee in a school district, it's pretty much the same as working in the private sector. You're "at will" and, just like the private sector, you have to justify your presence every year during your evaluation.
Although, unless you're a certified employee in a school district, it's pretty much the same as working in the private sector. You're "at will" and, just like the private sector, you have to justify your presence every year during your evaluation.
Creationism and Intelligent Design are man’s feeble attempt at trying to explain the inexplicable. It’s our desire to know more than can possibly ever be known.
Whatever you call it, there at some point was a spark leading to non-organic material becoming organic. To me, and I’m not putting down religion here, chemistry is way more likely than a supernatural entity.
Whatever you call it, there at some point was a spark leading to non-organic material becoming organic. To me, and I’m not putting down religion here, chemistry is way more likely than a supernatural entity.
The presumption that life started here skews the odds. In an infinitely vast universe with nearly infinite worlds anything is possible over billions of years. Most modern theories involve life occurring elsewhere and being brought here when water arrived on the lava blob we now call home.
I have no idea what is correct but the idea of a creator brings its own similar set of issues. Who made the creator? What existed before them? Why would they bother making a flawed system?
I have no idea what is correct but the idea of a creator brings its own similar set of issues. Who made the creator? What existed before them? Why would they bother making a flawed system?
