Eli Brown transferring

[Caveman Catfan]

Well, Towles WAS the starter, then left because he was passed over FOR a KY kid. THAT next Ky kid got hurt. Elam's failings are his own. So... I don't see a real trend of favoritism or neglect.

I'll give you Brown to a degree, though. So... I share everyone's dissatisfaction with this news. JJ drove me crazy this year. I frankly wish he had just declared and gotten the hell out EB's way. Well, he did not. Ultimately, however, I think EB has his own issues. He is still smallish and definitely not as physical as JJ. He is much like some WLB's of days past at UK, a SS playing his whole game at the second level. Fact is, his replacement is already on the team somewhere, and JJ DOES have a mountain of potential if he will just remove his head from the dark place he seems to want to leave it deposited to this point.

So, life for the BBN goes on. I wish him well, but at this rate he does not need to worry his draft status, or blame it on our staff. If he was All-World, JJ would be the one transferring. I'm tired of this "Ohio First" conspiracy theory stuff. Best of luck to him. I can see his perspective, but let's not act like our staff did anything but collect athletes and tell them to compete. He's apparently tired of competing.

Brown did some things well and made some mistakes and had some limitations (whether physical or mental, not sure). While I suspect he may have been more disciplined, I doubt anyone can truly demonstrate that he has the play changing abilities of Jordan Jones. If Jordan can be disciplined, he is as dynamic as any player UK has on defense. Brown was at best solid with a few highlight moments. The defense could be good with him. But, it is different around him with him on the field. He was not going to take Jones off the field. Only Jones could take Jones off the field.

Selfishly, we all want 2-3 deep at every position and interchangeable parts. Brown must just want more PT or he thinks he can prove he is NFL caliber somewhere else. I wish him well. But, it would have been more devastating to learn Jones was gone.

In fact, if Boogie Watson transfers, I will be much more upset. I saw Brown as a possible senior starter, but also thought he may never be a starter without an injury to the first string.

At one point, I think Stoops wanted Brown to gain mass and play Mike. I wonder if that somehow played a role here.

 

[Blue Decade]

Not a good look. Kids take notice. High school coaches take notice.

Probably not a coincidence that wen completely struck out on instate players this past signing period.

Nonsense. The most obvious explanation is almost always the correct explanation. Brown hasn't been playing. The starter at his position is returning, and Stoops just signed a new 4 star Will linebacker. Brown wants to get on the field. That's obviously why he is transferring. It has nothing to do with "striking out on instate players". There were 12 Kentuckians on football scholarships at UK in 2017, which was twice as many as UL had. Stoops has already offered at least 9 scholarships to Kentuckians in the 2019 class.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Towles and Brown “flopped?” I seriously don’t know how a UK fan writes that. Barker has back surgery. Not sure how that is a flop. This is the sort of spin that I would expect from a UL fan.

Just because it isn't good news doesn't mean it's false. I love stoops recruiting. He just needs to fix this area

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Just because it isn't good news doesn't mean it's false. I love stoops recruiting. He just needs to fix this area

It is wrong, even as pure opinion.

 

[TBCat]

Lol, people in this thread acting like Eli Brown was the 2nd coming of Ray Lewis or something. He wasn't bad but its not like his play is not replaceable.

Again that's part of the problem is he was someone that should have been an impact player. Yeah I get it some 4 star Army All Americans don't develop. However when you have a staff that can't seem to get any of them to develop that's an issue. One player or a couple players fail to develop then it's on the player. When most of your high level recruits fail then it's on the staff.

Like I stated earlier its hard getting excited about Oats with our track record of not developing players. I get the feeling 2 years from now he'll be transferring and we'll be reading about he wasn't any loss because he wasn't good either.

I fear we have a staff of recruiters with no coaches. Some might differ about this but I feel coaching a far more important than recruiting. There are a lot of great recruiting staffs out there that can't win. There are very few great coaching staffs out there that can't win even if that staff can't recruit. Teaching is more important than recruiting and I'm not convinced we can do that.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Nonsense. The most obvious explanation is almost always the correct explanation. Brown hasn't been playing. The starter at his position is returning, and Stoops just signed a new 4 star Will linebacker. Brown wants to get on the field. That's obviously why he is transferring. It has nothing to do with "striking out on instate players". There were 12 Kentuckians on football scholarships at UK in 2017, which was twice as many as UL had. Stoops has already offered at least 9 scholarships to Kentuckians in the 2019 class.

Did you even read what I wrote? Of course it's PT. Brown is a good player. That's why it sucks to lose him. But the optics of another heralded ky kid leaving the problem hurts even more.

Im not sure how anyone argues otherwise.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

It is wrong, even as pure opinion.

Ok. 3 heralded ky kids didn't leave the program and the 4th (Elam) actually lived up to his billing.

Thanks for setting me straight...

 

[Caveman Catfan]

He is a good football player. Jones is better. Eli started when Jones was out. No one here thought he played demonstrating NFL potential. Jones had NFL potential, regardless of how he had turned some true fans off and irritated those pretending to be fans.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Ok. 3 heralded ky kids didn't leave the program and the 4th (Elam) actually lived up to his billing.

Thanks for setting me straight...

I guess I should teach you English.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

I guess I should teach you English.

Boy, you really got me there huh

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Boy, you really got me there huh

Look, the definition of “flopped” does not mean a kid decided to transfer and does not include Brown or Towles. You can snark around it all you want. You are wrong. Starting in the SEC is not flopping.

[Edit: unless you are a UL fan attempting to spin]

 

[rolaid]

Kid wants to play has Jones in front of him and Coach told Oates he can beat them all out- simple as that

 

[sluggercatfan]

Yep. Bad loss. Was only a slight drop off from Jones, if at all. I understand why he'd go somewhere for more playing time, I guess. But seems like he'd have to sit out and will wind up in about the same shape.

Like I've posted before, we need ky kids to start having success under stoops. This is 4 (Towles, Barker, Elam, Brown) off top of my head that flopped.

Not a good look. Kids take notice. High school coaches take notice.

Probably not a coincidence that wen completely struck out on instate players this past signing period.

Don't you know kids or parents don't take notice of this kid d of stuff...they are too busy researching message boards to see what fans are saying!! You need to pay more attention.

 

[Blue Decade]

Did you even read what I wrote? Of course it's PT. Brown is a good player. That's why it sucks to lose him. But the optics of another heralded ky kid leaving the problem hurts even more.

Im not sure how anyone argues otherwise.

Okay. LOL! You said: "Yep. Bad loss. Like I've posted before, we need Ky kids to start having success under Stoops. Not a good look. Kids take notice. High school coaches take notice." But UK football recruiting cannot possibly depend on instate prospects. There aren't enough SEC caliber players in Kentucky to provide the quality of play UK fans demand. Stoops and Marrow cherry pick in Kentucky when possible. They won't call it that, but anyone can see it. Landon Young, Drake Jackson, Adrian Middleton are starting, so your point is false. Kash Daniel will start in 2018. It doesn't matter where UK players are from. Josh Allen and Juice Johnson grew up 1,000 miles from here. Eli Brown was beaten out by a better player. Matt Elam came to campus 50 pounds overweight, never got himself into shape, and was beaten out. If you blame Stoops for that, you must also give him credit for developing Pringle and Bohanna. Jason Hatcher was selling drugs. That isn't Stoops' fault. You are playing a game of catch-22. If Stoops doesn't sign the best available players, then he won't win games. If he doesn't win games, then you will call for his scalp. But if he doesn't sign enough Kentuckians to suit you, then you complain about that. Stoops offered 5 scholarships to Kentuckians in 2018. Those players decided to play elsewhere. That's their choice. Stoops has already made 9 scholarship offers to Kentuckians in 2019. Stoops deserves credit for pushing the envelope by pulling solid football players out of Ohio, Florida, Georgia, Alabama, elsewhere. He is winning. In your own words, "I'm not sure how anyone argues otherwise".

 

[shutzhund]

Again that's part of the problem is he was someone that should have been an impact player. Yeah I get it some 4 star Army All Americans don't develop. However when you have a staff that can't seem to get any of them to develop that's an issue. One player or a couple players fail to develop then it's on the player. When most of your high level recruits fail then it's on the staff.

Like I stated earlier its hard getting excited about Oats with our track record of not developing players. I get the feeling 2 years from now he'll be transferring and we'll be reading about he wasn't any loss because he wasn't good either.

I fear we have a staff of recruiters with no coaches. Some might differ about this but I feel coaching a far more important than recruiting. There are a lot of great recruiting staffs out there that can't win. There are very few great coaching staffs out there that can't win even if that staff can't recruit. Teaching is more important than recruiting and I'm not convinced we can do that.

There are no successful great recruiters who don't win. You can't coach donkeys to win the Kentucky Derby. Same applies in the SEC.

 

[RonEJones]

There are no successful great recruiters who don't win. You can't coach donkeys to win the Kentucky Derby. Same applies in the SEC.

Most thoroughbred don’t qualify for the Kentucky Derby - if you can coach up and develop kids, recruit to your culture/style of play and retain said talent, you can be really successful in any conference. Even if your thoroughbreds aren’t quite the Derby favorites.

I would like to see more of this with Stoops. This is his team, full of his kids.The recruiting on paper has been at an all time high but the transfers and lack of development is a bit troublesome..

Need to see this recruiting correlate with the play on the field.

 

[vhcat70]

This is not the first announcement of transfer we have had on the eve of spring practice.

That doesn't un-strange any of them.

 

[Comebakatz3]

Maybe it would have been crazy, but I would have liked to have seen Jones at Mike and Brown at WLB. This would put more speed on the field. We wouldn't have quite as much bulk, but Jones has great sideline to sideline speed. Of course, it wouldn't matter if he doesn't learn to read a play.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

That doesn't un-strange any of them.

It suggests there is a variable unknown to us that may be consistent among those who decided at this point. When we see something repeated that seems strange, we can speculate there is a reasons.

 

[southindycat]

Maybe it would have been crazy, but I would have liked to have seen Jones at Mike and Brown at WLB. This would put more speed on the field. We wouldn't have quite as much bulk, but Jones has great sideline to sideline speed. Of course, it wouldn't matter if he doesn't learn to read a play.

I agree. This is one thing I don't understand. However, given the way the whole defense fits together, perhaps JJ's indiscipline would be a bigger problem than it already is, if it is not remedied?

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Okay. LOL! You said: "Yep. Bad loss. Like I've posted before, we need Ky kids to start having success under Stoops. Not a good look. Kids take notice. High school coaches take notice." But UK football recruiting cannot possibly depend on instate prospects. There aren't enough SEC caliber players in Kentucky to provide the quality of play UK fans demand. Stoops and Marrow cherry pick in Kentucky when possible. They won't call it that, but anyone can see it. Landon Young, Drake Jackson, Adrian Middleton are starting, so your point is false. Kash Daniel will start in 2018. It doesn't matter where UK players are from. Josh Allen and Juice Johnson grew up 1,000 miles from here. Eli Brown was beaten out by a better player. Matt Elam came to campus 50 pounds overweight, never got himself into shape, and was beaten out. If you blame Stoops for that, you must also give him credit for developing Pringle and Bohanna. Jason Hatcher was selling drugs. That isn't Stoops' fault. You are playing a game of catch-22. If Stoops doesn't sign the best available players, then he won't win games. If he doesn't win games, then you will call for his scalp. But if he doesn't sign enough Kentuckians to suit you, then you complain about that. Stoops offered 5 scholarships to Kentuckians in 2018. Those players decided to play elsewhere. That's their choice. Stoops has already made 9 scholarship offers to Kentuckians in 2019. Stoops deserves credit for pushing the envelope by pulling solid football players out of Ohio, Florida, Georgia, Alabama, elsewhere. He is winning. In your own words, "I'm not sure how anyone argues otherwise".

Yes there aren't enough ky players to field an sec team. But the top kids here are as good as anywhere. We NEED to keep them home.

Think Harris and Wills couldn't help this team? They were both big contributors to bamas season.

There are 2 or 3 major ky prospects in most classes. We need to lock them down. We did. Now we aren't. Optics like this hurt and play a role

 

[Comebakatz3]

I agree. This is one thing I don't understand. However, given the way the whole defense fits together, perhaps JJ's indiscipline would be a bigger problem than it already is, if it is not remedied?

The being crazy and out of control is one thing... what annoys me more is when he doesn't read the play and even goes the wrong direction. It's that lack of discipline that hurts even more than the stupid reaction stuff.

 

[southindycat]

The being crazy and out of control is one thing... what annoys me more is when he doesn't read the play and even goes the wrong direction. It's that lack of discipline that hurts even more than the stupid reaction stuff.

I agree. That's what I refer to in my reply to another post.

 

[23jumpboy]

Wish Eli would stay, Jones leave.

 

[Soupbean]

Wow. Wonder why

I'd say see quote from Chris Oats on how he has a chance to start next year and I think you have your answer. Eli already had to fight to get on the field and now add Oats and a Junior Kash and there you go. But the timing says the excitement over Oats was all the push he needed.

 

[Soupbean]

Kid wants to play has Jones in front of him and Coach told Oates he can beat them all out- simple as that

Sorry didn't read this before I posted my thoughts but agree had a lot to do with it IMO.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

It is hard to find football players who will put team first, even if they don’t achieve their dreams, but can help the team. Being on the bench, playing if the person in front of you gets hurts, preparing to play knowing you may not, is not a common trait. Plus, family and friends constantly speak into the ears, telling them they deserve better or more.

Again, I hope Eli graduates first and has two years to play at Div. I level, even if not P5, rather than play for an EKU. Regardless, I hope Eli is happy with his decision in two years.

Bottom line, as much as some here want to place blame, Eli did not win the job. The other guy was coached by the same coaches and he won the job and in 2016 was one of the best tacklers in the SEC.

 

[vhcat70]

It suggests there is a variable unknown to us that may be consistent among those who decided at this point. When we see something repeated that seems strange, we can speculate there is a reasons.

I get hammered all the time here for speculating. But I'm sure there are unknown variables - strangeness defined.

 

[vhcat70]

Did you even read what I wrote? Of course it's PT. Brown is a good player. That's why it sucks to lose him. But the optics of another heralded ky kid leaving the problem hurts even more.

Im not sure how anyone argues otherwise.

OK, the reason is PT, he wants it & is not getting it. So why does his leaving suck? He came to play & is going somewhere else to get it since he can't get it here. He thinks staying & sitting would suck. Why shouldn't we agree with that?

 

[Lost In FL]

View embedded media

I hope this is fake news. Sucks if true. Dang...

 

[sluggercatfan]

Again that's part of the problem is he was someone that should have been an impact player. Yeah I get it some 4 star Army All Americans don't develop. However when you have a staff that can't seem to get any of them to develop that's an issue. One player or a couple players fail to develop then it's on the player. When most of your high level recruits fail then it's on the staff.

Like I stated earlier its hard getting excited about Oats with our track record of not developing players. I get the feeling 2 years from now he'll be transferring and we'll be reading about he wasn't any loss because he wasn't good either.

I fear we have a staff of recruiters with no coaches. Some might differ about this but I feel coaching a far more important than recruiting. There are a lot of great recruiting staffs out there that can't win. There are very few great coaching staffs out there that can't win even if that staff can't recruit. Teaching is more important than recruiting and I'm not convinced we can do that.

Northwesrern, Boise St, KSU , several others.

 

[RonEJones]

Not sure if it's cause for major concern but I don't get people rationalizing like this is not a bad thing. Guy was a solid, experienced, back up at worse, who had SEC experience. That's not only depth but it's your starting LB if Jones gets hurt again. It's bad. How bad will depend on Jones' health and who steps up behind him.

To me, it's also odd that he didn't at least go through spring practice to see where he stood before transferring. I know some say that's not a big deal but if he were truly out, leave prior to spring semester.

 

[greginky1957]

Maybe he didn't like his new position coach

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Maybe he didn't like his new position coach

I think House remains his coach.

 

[jauk11]

Aren't you listening? We've got them waiting in line that are better. Let's see where he ends up.

About ten times the second string talent backing them up than we had when Joker took over Brooks (strong) talent, what with him having to START more two stars than three stars------or do you want to argue that too?

 

[southindycat]

Did you even read what I wrote? Of course it's PT. Brown is a good player. That's why it sucks to lose him. But the optics of another heralded ky kid leaving the problem hurts even more.

Im not sure how anyone argues otherwise.

You seem to be saying that we not only must recruit and sign KY players, but in turn play them, no matter what. It's that, or you just expect everyone to share your apparent belief that any KY player who does not see the field early and stay there can blame the staff for his lack of development.

Sorry, but in the first instance, we would be committing recruiting suicide outside the Commonwealth. In the second, I'm just not with that agenda.

Maybe we should look for examples of KY players who have panned out for this staff, or still show some promise, instead of focusing on the disappointments.

Cole Mosier, Drake Jackson, Landon Young, Kash Daniel (coming), Adrian Middleton, Charles Walker, Davonte Robinson, Zy'aire Hughes, Walker Wood.

Fact is, KY still does not produce a depth of real FBS talent on an annual basis, and even when it does, the comparison with a good year in Ohio is still a laugher. Bill Greene is tracking 80-90 2019 Ohio kids for FBS offers? There is a reason we don't have a roster full of Kentuckians, and some that we do add never realize their promise. KY high school football is still relatively under developed, even if improved over 2 or 3 decades ago.

There is obviously a lot of angst over all these 2018 kids going to Brohm at Purdue. Well, they aren't going to Ohio State or UT, are they? Those that are headed to profile programs have their reasons. Just a weird year. It can happen quickly when pickings are slim, and let's face it, they always are.

So... to be blunt, if I have to concern myself with one state for the betterment of UK football... I take Ohio. If kids from KY are looking for a reason not to play at UK, I say let them go their own way. We can probably do better elsewhere.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

You seem to be saying that we not only must recruit and sign KY players, but in turn play them, no matter what. It's that, or you just expect everyone to share your apparent belief that any KY player who does not see the field early and stay there can blame the staff for his lack of development.

Sorry, but in the first instance, we would be committing recruiting suicide outside the Commonwealth. In the second, I'm just not with that agenda.

Maybe we should look for examples of KY players who have panned out for this staff, or still show some promise, instead of focusing on the disappointments.

Cole Mosier, Drake Jackson, Landon Young, Kash Daniel (coming), Adrian Middleton, Charles Walker, Davonte Robinson, Zy'aire Hughes, Walker Wood.

Fact is, KY still does not produce a depth of real FBS talent on an annual basis, and even when it does, the comparison with a good year in Ohio is still a laugher. Bill Greene is tracking 80-90 2019 Ohio kids for FBS offers? There is a reason we don't have a roster full of Kentuckians, and some that we do add never realize their promise. KY high school football is still relatively under developed, even if improved over 2 or 3 decades ago.

There is obviously a lot of angst over all these 2018 kids going to Brohm at Purdue. Well, they aren't going to Ohio State or UT, are they? Those that are headed to profile programs have their reasons. Just a weird year. It can happen quickly when pickings are slim, and let's face it, they always are.

So... to be blunt, if I have to concern myself with one state for the betterment of UK football... I take Ohio. If kids from KY are looking for a reason not to play at UK, I say let them go their own way. We can probably do better elsewhere.

No. Of course on average other states have better talent. But there are 2-3 players here with good talent every year. We need to lock down the state so we get THOSE kids. Then THOSE kids needs to succeed. That's different standard for every player. Doesn't mean they have to star or even start.

I'd call Cole and jd Harmon successes (although iirc both started their career as walk ons). But we have 3 very visible recruits that transferred and Elam that never made an impact.

Makes it tougher to reel in the Wills and Harris type players we need from this state.

 

[RV2]

No. Of course on average other states have better talent. But there are 2-3 players here with good talent every year. We need to lock down the state so we get THOSE kids. Then THOSE kids needs to succeed. That's different standard for every player. Doesn't mean they have to star or even start.

I'd call Cole and jd Harmon successes (although iirc both started their career as walk ons). But we have 3 very visible recruits that transferred and Elam that never made an impact.

Makes it tougher to reel in the Wills and Harris type players we need from this state.

So what would you propose the coaches do other than what they are and have been doing? Kidnapping? Coercion? Blackmail?

 

[Blue Decade]

Wish Eli would stay, Jones leave.

Well, that's a big help.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

So what would you propose the coaches do other than what they are and have been doing? Kidnapping? Coercion? Blackmail?

I don't know theres one thing. With Elam he was probably out of position, should've redshirted, and wasn't disciplined over weight/conditioning as needed.

Towles just never put the incredible physical tools to use consistently. I think had he stayed, Gran/Hinshaw would've really helped him.

Barker just had bad luck. Looked amazing when healthy. Actually looked ok this year in his time.

Brown was a good player just lost at times. Undersized but brought it. Only slight drop off from Jones (who is a loose cannon).

It's a multitiered problem. Overselling these kids to keep them home. Then lack of depth, at the time, forced some into action too soon. Others were recruited over, with the incoming recruits stating publicly the staff told them they are in position to start coming in, which cycles back to overselling to get the recruit.

I understand it's growth of the program and roster turnover, transfers, etc are all good signs overall. I also understand the staff really isn't at fault. That was never the point.

The point is the OPTICS created by these kids not even finishing their careers here. Those optics hurt on the recruiting trail. Kids see it. High school coaches see it. It makes a difference.

Of the 4 higher ranked ky recruits left, only Drake really lived up to billing SO FAR. 2 really haven't the chance yet. Landon is only performing ok.