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Does the starters matter?

Does the starting 5 really matter?

  • Yes

    Votes: 49 55.7%
  • No

    Votes: 39 44.3%

  • Total voters
    88

LXWildcat

Sophomore
Nov 25, 2023
1,703
6,101
113
I know some people think the starters do not matter but let’s be honest more times than not Kentucky usually starts slower when certain people start. It’s no surprise that they are better with Reed and Rob on the court, I think it matters in the tournament because one bad start to the game could send them home early.

Starting 5 should be the best players who can put up the most points. Because like Cal said we will have to outscore our opponents to win.

Rob
Reed
Reeves
Edwards or Tre
Big Z
 
I know some people think the starters do not matter but let’s be honest more times than not Kentucky usually starts slower when certain people start. It’s no surprise that they are better with Reed and Rob on the court, I think it matters in the tournament because one bad start to the game could send them home early.

Starting 5 should be the best players who can put up the most points. Because like Cal said we will have to outscore our opponents to win.

Rob
Reed
Reeves
Edwards or Tre
Big Z
What's Reed's record as a starter?
 
It doesn’t matter but it’s obvious both him and Rob have gotten a lot better. They both are potentially top 5 picks and yet we start people who are more inconsistent than them
LMAO

Reed has a 20% winning percentage as a starter. We just lost 3 home games in a row with him starting. We also lost to UNCw with him starting. However, he has an over 80% winning percentage coming off the bench. His best game as a Cat was with him coming off the bench.

It certainly seems like it matters.

And we win a hell of a lot more using that strategy. Obviously it is the right one. Even Jay Wright said he would do the same.
 
What's Reed's record as a starter?
What's Reed's record when he plays the second most minutes on the team? His impact as the best all around player on the team playing the most minutes besides Reeves is lot more relevant than what happens if he starts. Do you actually think that 3 or 4 minutes DJ plays before he comes in determines anything? Unbelievable.
 
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LMAO

Reed has a 20% winning percentage as a starter. We just lost 3 home games in a row with him starting. However, he has an over 80% winning percentage coming off the bench. His best game as a Cat was with him coming off the bench.

It certainly seems like it matters.

And we win a hell of a lot more using that strategy. Obviously it is the right one. Even Jay Wright said he would do the same.
And what is the sample size for your deduction? What other factors could have impacted those games? It's obvious to ALMOST everyone that Reed and Rob should be starting. Cal is keeping promises that he shouldn't be making and not starting them has hurt Kentucky.
 
With the way the offense can score, if you can get some good defense to go with it, it could have a monumental impact. Imagine playing this team, getting down 18-3, and then having to play catch up. Could cause a lot of panic in teams. Especially in the NCAAT when it's lose and go home.
 
I do think they matter. Would love to see us start with DJ, Sheppard, Reeves, Edwards, and Ugo.

I know Ugo seems to have slipped a bit, but I still think he starts us off with our best defending big man, and it allows you to bring Rob and Big Z in for quite the spark off the bench.

We are at our best playing three guards and if Edwards is in, he has to be at the four.
 
I don't think it's a yes or no answer. They do matter of course. They don't matter enough to merit all the whining and complaining about it.

What matters a whole bunch more than starting is the fact that we are clearly one of the most talented teams in the country and we have a coach who is yet again underachieving by not putting his full effort into winning college basketball games. And full effort means everything coaches can do - from scouting, game planning, adjustments, etc. to player development and lineup optimization. He doesn't do those things. If he did all of them, then the starting lineup would take care of itself.
 
What's Reed's record when he plays the second most minutes on the team? His impact as the best all around player on the team playing the most minutes besides Reeves is lot more relevant than what happens if he starts. Do you actually think that 3 or 4 minutes DJ plays before he comes in determines anything? Unbelievable.
Yes, I think it helps Reed and Rob settle into the game easier. It also prevents Rob from picking up early fouls. Not to mention, we went 1-4 when Reed starts. We went 18-4 when he came off the bench. One of his losses was to UNCw for goodness sake. We lost 3 home games in a row when he started. He clearly is better off the bench.

And what is the sample size for your deduction? What other factors could have impacted those games? It's obvious to ALMOST everyone that Reed and Rob should be starting. Cal is keeping promises that he shouldn't be making and not starting them has hurt Kentucky.
An almost entire season. He started 5 games and we lost 4. He came off the bench for 24 games and we won 20 of them. I think that's a pretty good sample.

You tell us, what factors were there that Wagner hasn't also dealt with? Go ahead!

I would say losing 4 out of 5 hurt us a lot worse.

A promise to start but get subbed after 3 minutes and play 4th in minutes? Odd promise to say the least. 🤣
 
LMAO

Reed has a 20% winning percentage as a starter. We just lost 3 home games in a row with him starting. We also lost to UNCw with him starting. However, he has an over 80% winning percentage coming off the bench. His best game as a Cat was with him coming off the bench.

It certainly seems like it matters.

And we win a hell of a lot more using that strategy. Obviously it is the right one. Even Jay Wright said he would do the same.
Your name says it all. Awful post.
 
If the best players are starting why do we NEVER see that same group of 5 together again?

Other than first 2 to 3 mins of 2nd half.

The main issue is UGO. We need Z as another shooter and the starting lineup would be better.
 
I know some people think the starters do not matter but let’s be honest more times than not Kentucky usually starts slower when certain people start. It’s no surprise that they are better with Reed and Rob on the court, I think it matters in the tournament because one bad start to the game could send them home early.

Starting 5 should be the best players who can put up the most points. Because like Cal said we will have to outscore our opponents to win.

Rob
Reed
Reeves
Edwards or Tre
Big Z
I'm being picky here, why are you putting the 5 who can score the most? What about defense? What if the best 5 scorers are guards.nd small forwards, what if a guy is a lockdown defender, a rebounding machine and has good basketball IQ but only scores 7 a game?
 
I am one of the most vocal saying it does not matter. But to clarify, I would say it matters, but very little. Assuming the total minutes don't change, I would say the starters matter less than 5-10%.
I would say who Finishes the game does matter very much, as the end of games is played much different in almost every close game, with a lot more pressure and a lot more fouls.

And yes, to the one who said "what's Reed's record as a starter" is the dumbest argument, I agree completely that is a dumb argument.

But there are lots of factors people often do ignore, some of which we've not even tested yet, which could include the possibility that:
- Reed plays better off the bench
- Rob plays better, or fouls less, coming off the bench
- Wagner plays better starting
- Edwards plays better starting (if he's worse coming off the bench he would be unplayable)
- instill confidence in 2 who we want to play well to help the overall team play, because we need more than just the 3 R's playing well, especially when our defense struggles
- use your best defenders to start the game to attempt to raise the defensive level of play for the whole game
- bring 2 spark plugs off the bench in first 4 minutes to wear down the opponent (I do really like that spark when they enter the game)

Reed plays as much the past 2 months as you could want him to play and still be "fresh" at the end of games, 33-34mpg.
Rob I would like to see playing more. The level of energy he plays with I do think prevents him from playing much over 30mpg (& still play at that level). And his frequent foul trouble often prevents him from even approaching 30mpg. But when he can, I would like to see him near 30mpg.
Personally, I would start one of the 2 (Reed or Rob), trying to make it so that we play 0-mpg with just 1 "shooter", but not start both.
 
I used to not think so until this year. The start of the game is crucial in big time games.
 
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I don't think it matters  that much, especially since Rob and Reed are checking in 3 minutes into the game, but it's kind of concerning how we have 3 potential lottery picks coming off the bench and 0 lottery picks in the starting lineup. I think Cal is balancing egos while simultaneously trying to play the best lineups and keep everyone happy. And to me, who finishes the game matters more than who starts. Reed, Rob and Z have all been finishing games so I'm good with it. As long as those 3 are on the court when it matters most, I can't fault Cal
 
What's Reed's record when he plays the second most minutes on the team? His impact as the best all around player on the team playing the most minutes besides Reeves is lot more relevant than what happens if he starts. Do you actually think that 3 or 4 minutes DJ plays before he comes in determines anything? Unbelievable.
I agree, the 3 or 4 minutes doesn't determine anything.....so we can stick with what we're doing.
 
I am one of the most vocal saying it does not matter. But to clarify, I would say it matters, but very little. Assuming the total minutes don't change, I would say the starters matter less than 5-10%.
I would say who Finishes the game does matter very much, as the end of games is played much different in almost every close game, with a lot more pressure and a lot more fouls.

And yes, to the one who said "what's Reed's record as a starter" is the dumbest argument, I agree completely that is a dumb argument.

But there are lots of factors people often do ignore, some of which we've not even tested yet, which could include the possibility that:
- Reed plays better off the bench
- Rob plays better, or fouls less, coming off the bench
- Wagner plays better starting
- Edwards plays better starting (if he's worse coming off the bench he would be unplayable)
- instill confidence in 2 who we want to play well to help the overall team play, because we need more than just the 3 R's playing well, especially when our defense struggles
- use your best defenders to start the game to attempt to raise the defensive level of play for the whole game
- bring 2 spark plugs off the bench in first 4 minutes to wear down the opponent (I do really like that spark when they enter the game)

Reed plays as much the past 2 months as you could want him to play and still be "fresh" at the end of games, 33-34mpg.
Rob I would like to see playing more. The level of energy he plays with I do think prevents him from playing much over 30mpg (& still play at that level). And his frequent foul trouble often prevents him from even approaching 30mpg. But when he can, I would like to see him near 30mpg.
Personally, I would start one of the 2 (Reed or Rob), trying to make it so that we play 0-mpg with just 1 "shooter", but not start both.
Don't you know better than to have a thoughtful nuanced take. That's not welcomed here.

Cal bad all Cal's decisions bad.
 
LMAO

Reed has a 20% winning percentage as a starter. We just lost 3 home games in a row with him starting. We also lost to UNCw with him starting. However, he has an over 80% winning percentage coming off the bench. His best game as a Cat was with him coming off the bench.

It certainly seems like it matters.

And we win a hell of a lot more using that strategy. Obviously it is the right one. Even Jay Wright said he would do the same.
Don’t speak to the Cal haters using facts. They don’t know what those are.
 
Don't you know better than to have a thoughtful nuanced take. That's not welcomed here.

Cal bad all Cal's decisions bad.
I'm not defending Cal. Like I finished with, if it were me I would start 1 of the 2 (Reed or Rob), but to me there are bigger fish to fry wrt Cal's coaching and this team than who starts.
 
What level of importance would you put on this anyway for this team? Is this even a top 25 issue?

Being healthy. Being better on defense. Rebounding. Making free throws. Players staying out of foul trouble. Etc;. Sure, it's something to have a discussion over, but in the grand scheme of this team and what it needs to do to win, is this really that big of an issue? I don't think so.
 
Who starts is about as important as who gets the opening tip. It’s important, but it’s not worth the trouble of arguing about it.
They are probably pretty close. And I might say the opening tip matters more. Because winning the tip means (on average) 0.5 more possessions per game.
When Mitchell was starting, I don't see how we didn't have Theiro jumping for us instead of Mitchell.
 
Sure, man. If you say so!
I think every college basketball coach should start every game with their 2 best players on the bench. It makes perfect sense to do it. And these two are projected lottery picks. So if we use your math if Dillingham and Reed start we only have a 20% chance of winning. This is like being in Twilight zone.
 
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I think every college basketball coach should start every game with their 2 best players on the bench. It makes perfect sense to do it. And these two are projected lottery picks. So if we use your math if Dillingham and Reed start we only have a 20% chance of winning. This is like being in Twilight zone.
Yea, buddy. That's exactly what I said. You nailed it! 🤣
 
I'm not defending Cal. Like I finished with, if it were me I would start 1 of the 2 (Reed or Rob), but to me there are bigger fish to fry wrt Cal's coaching and this team than who starts.
Also, if Rob and Reed don't care (they have both openly said they don't multiple times) then I don't care.
 
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I'd argue what matters more is not ruining the rhythm we've got going at this point in the season by messing with the starting lineups and changing roles in March.

But by all means, let's keep talking about this. It doesn't matter to anyone on the team but some dudes on message boards are very bothered by it.
 
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