Diallo doesn't need guarantee of first round pick to remain in draft

[kyjeff1]

Cal has had the 1st or 2nd ranked class every year. So of course we have more going because we get more. Last I checked dUKe and unc are losing several of their underclassmen too. And how much money did Gracie Allen cost himself by coming back for his sophomore season?

Everyone likes to use Grason Allen to support their "he should have left" argument, but for every GA, there are plenty of Buddy Heild's.
There are plenty of examples of guys going high in the draft because they stayed in school.
And yes, UK is always #1 or #2 in the recruiting rankings. Well, that's great, but I'd rather return players and not HAVE to be #1 or 2 in recruiting.
Keep walking that tightrope and eventually you will fall off.
Don't land a 1 or 2 ranked class after a mass exodus and the result will not be good.

 

[mdlUK.1]

Everyone likes to use Grason Allen to support their "he should have left" argument, but for every GA, there are plenty of Buddy Heild's.
There are plenty of examples of guys going high in the draft because they stayed in school.
And yes, UK is always #1 or #2 in the recruiting rankings. Well, that's great, but I'd rather return players and not HAVE to be #1 or 2 in recruiting.
Keep walking that tightrope and even6you will fall off.
Don't land a 1 or 2 ranked class after a mass exodus and the result will not be good.

And every time we get a player that isn't an instant success, the trolls come out and try to get them to transfer. Or constantly bash them.

 

[kyjeff1]

Done what? As far as I KNOW, he hasn't hired an agent and could still come back. Have you got a link to something that disproves that?

Wow, okay, lets do this again.
The assumption was that Diallo was leaving. Kinda odd that I have to explain this to you, I thought we were on the same page.
The discussion is about the none and done, which means that Diallo would keep his name in the draft. If he returns to UK then this is a non issue.
So again, let's ASSUME that Diallo stays in the draft. A good portion of us will not be happy, but you stated that you will be fine with it because it's only happened one time.

My question to you was: At what point is it not okay with you? Your statement made it seem like it's okay because it only happened one time. But what if it happens 3 or 4 more times? You still good with it? My guess is no, you won't be. So if you disagree with it after 4 kids do it, how can you be mad at those that don't like it after the first kid does it?

 

[kyjeff1]

And every time we get a player that isn't an instant success, the trolls come out and try to get them to transfer. Or constantly bash them.

You're talking about 4 or 5 posters on this board. You aren't going to prevent that here no matter what you do. I'm not sure what you're getting at though.

 

[mdlUK.1]

Wow, okay, lets do this again.
The assumption was that Diallo was leaving. Kinda odd that I have to explain this to you, I thought we were on the same page.
The discussion is about the none and done, which means that Diallo would keep his name in the draft. If he returns to UK then this is a non issue.
So again, let's ASSUME that Diallo stays in the draft. A good portion of us will not be happy, but you stated that you will be fine with it because it's only happened one time.

My question to you was: At what point is it not okay with you? Your statement made it seem like it's okay because it only happened one time. But what if it happens 3 or 4 more times? You still good with it? My guess is no, you won't be. So if you disagree with it after 4 kids do it, how can you be mad at those that don't like it after the first kid does it?

So, you are upset about something that MIGHT happen? lol

If it happens, yes, I will be upset. But not at Cal. Not unless someone can prove that he knew Diallo was never going to play.

Who are you mad at! Diallo for playing us( if he does) ? Or Cal for taking a chance on a great player?

 

[thevaliantx]

No one LIKES this system but it is what it is. It's not going to change until the NBA changes the rule.

The NBA isn't going to change the rule until college coaches stop exploiting it. Right now Calipari is giving the NBA 'free scouting' on 1-and-done players. The moment the OAD talent is spread out amongst more teams, meaning fewer OAD are practicing against one another, the NBA will then move to "2 years out of high school" so that it can get more information. Just my opinion.

 

[kyjeff1]

We all want championships but they are really hard to win. Even with great talent.

Look at dean smith. He had Michael Jordan multiple years and was lucky to win one.

If, BIG IF, Cal gets burned this time, he may pass the next time. He may feel the player is so good, it's worth the risk.

Cal's a better coach than Dean Smith, Cal pushes his players harder to get their full potential quicker than DS ever dreamed of.
But do you not agree that the system makes Cal's coaching job much harder than it has to be? Yeah, winning titles is really hard, but winning titles with the turnover that UK has every year is damn near impossible. Give Cal some talented veterans and you will see 14/15 more times than not. He's that good. But unfortunately we may never know how good.

 

[mdlUK.1]

The NBA isn't going to change the rule until college coaches stop exploiting it. Right now Calipari is giving the NBA 'free scouting' on 1-and-done players. The moment the OAD talent is spread out amongst more teams, meaning fewer OAD are practicing against one another, the NBA will then move to "2 years out of high school" so that it can get more information. Just my opinion.

Lol..... so you want Cal to stop recruiting OAD players? And that'll make the NBA change the rule?

 

[mdlUK.1]

Cal's a better coach than Dean Smith, Cal pushes his players harder to get their full potential quicker than DS ever dreamed of.
But do you not agree that the system makes Cal's coaching job much harder than it has to be? Yeah, winning titles is really hard, but winning titles with the turnover that UK has every year is damn near impossible. Give Cal some talented veterans and you will see 14/15 more times than not. He's that good. But unfortunately we may never know how good.

Yes! I agree it's a lot tougher having to start over every year. But that is the current system. What can we do about it?

 

[thevaliantx]

I honestly don't think Calipari is a very good X's and O's coach, or even one that manages timeouts well. We've seen many examples of what I'm talking about. Being able to say "we're young" hides a little bit of that.

 

[JC43]

So if Diallo isn't one of the 70 to be invited to go to NBA combine then what?

 

[kyjeff1]

So, you are upset about something that MIGHT happen? lol

If it happens, yes, I will be upset. But not at Cal. Not unless someone can prove that he knew Diallo was never going to play.

Who are you mad at! Diallo for playing us( if he does) ? Or Cal for taking a chance on a great player?

Are you lost?
Yes, the discussion here is how we all feel IF Diallo keeps his name in the draft.
I'm really confused by your posts, you seemed to get it yesterday when you made the comments that I'm quoting (page 4), but now you seem to be confused about the subject at hand.
Again, the discussion is about our thoughts on the NONE AND DONE. So that means that Diallo would hire an agent and stay in the draft after never having played a game in a UK jersey.

 

[BBUK]

LOL @ "Embarrassing."

This guy finds UK basketball embarrassing. Does that sound like any actual UK fan any of you know?

I just need to understand how Cal inconsistently wins 30+ games a year.

 

[thevaliantx]

Lol..... so you want Cal to stop recruiting OAD players? And that'll make the NBA change the rule?

Kind of difficult to have a discussion with someone who makes so many assumptions. I'll try to go a little slower with you. I want Cal to try and retain some of that talent, as the other OAD programs do. That would mean less OAD talent coming in year after year, of course, but would be better for the program. As countless others here have alluded to, Cal is #1 NBA Draft Picks First #2 National Titles Second. Would you disagree with that?

 

[kyjeff1]

My gosh why don't you and some others just relax a bit. Your all speaking hypothetically and alot of what if's. Who's to say Calipari ever takes a chance like this again? I see it as no risk because the kid probably wouldn't have went to college anyway if he does go pro so what did we truly miss on? I know we can say we would have gotten someone else but who knows. Alot on here are speaking in absolutes and that's just not true.

I'm thinking you don't get what message boards are for.

 

[kyjeff1]

Dude, to be honest you're a pretty good poster. But, much like your previous incarnation (s&c) you have a propensity to go overboard on issues. You seem to be intelligent but you have a short fuse with posters whose opinions vary from yours. Talking down to people is a bad look.

You don't talk down to people? Practice what you preach.

 

[mdlUK.1]

Are you lost?
Yes, the discussion here is how we all feel IF Diallo keeps his name in the draft.
I'm really confused by your posts, you seemed to get it yesterday when you made the comments that I'm quoting (page 4), but now you seem to be confused about the subject at hand.
Again, the discussion is about our thoughts on the NONE AND DONE. So that means that Diallo would hire an agent and stay in the draft after never having played a game in a UK jersey.

Ok, I, and every other UK fan, will be upset if it happens. That goes without saying. There is no argument ab out that point.

 

[JC43]

This upcoming class does not have an outright candidate to be OAD. I think Cal will retain 4 of the six, with Vanderbilt and Richards the only ones leaving early. So he is building a team for the 3 or 4 studs from the 2018 class. Bagley, Zion, and Quickly. That would make 2018 draft have a possible 8 players in Draft after we cut down the nets that is.
Best case scenario, Diallo stays, Bamba signs.
Richards stays another year. C spot covered for 2018, who knows SKJ may breakout and be drafted next yr.

 

[mj2k10]

Everyone likes to use Grason Allen to support their "he should have left" argument, but for every GA, there are plenty of Buddy Heild's.
There are plenty of examples of guys going high in the draft because they stayed in school.
And yes, UK is always #1 or #2 in the recruiting rankings. Well, that's great, but I'd rather return players and not HAVE to be #1 or 2 in recruiting.
Keep walking that tightrope and eventually you will fall off.
Don't land a 1 or 2 ranked class after a mass exodus and the result will not be good.

How many is "plenty"?

Last 5 NBA drafts, total number of Juniors and Seniors selected in the first round:

16- 8. 2 in the top 10.
15- 8. 2 in the top 10 (1 from UK)
14- 6. 1 in the top 10.
13- 10. 2 in the top 10.
12- 9. 2 in the top 10.

Only 41 total in the last 5 years, and 9 taken in an area that would be considered "high". Those 9 are Damian Lillard, Thomas Robinson, Victor Oladipo, CJ McCollum, Elfrid Payton, WCS, Frank Kaminsky, Kris Dunn, and Buddy Hield. 6 of them probably helped their stock by staying, 3 of them were smaller school players who kind of had to stay longer to prove themselves, since they weren't guys the NBA was looking at coming out of HS, or playing in places where they were going to be quickly noticed.

And that's 41 total Juniors and Seniors out of 150 picks. So 72.7% of first round draft picks the last 5 years have been Freshmen, Sophomores, or foreign players. Freshmen outnumber juniors and seniors combined, as there have been 45 taken in the first round the last 5 years.

 

[mdlUK.1]

Kind of difficult to have a discussion with someone who makes so many assumptions. I'll try to go a little slower with you. I want Cal to try and retain some of that talent, as the other OAD programs do. That would mean less OAD talent coming in year after year, of course, but would be better for the program. As countless others here have alluded to, Cal is #1 NBA Draft Picks First #2 National Titles Second. Would you disagree with that?

Did you see the 30 for 30? Cal said he as had players break his heart by going after he recommended they stay. Now, how you going to stop them? Unless you don't recruit them, that is.

 

[mdlUK.1]

I honestly don't think Calipari is a very good X's and O's coach, or even one that manages timeouts well. We've seen many examples of what I'm talking about. Being able to say "we're young" hides a little bit of that.

You need to try harder troll.

 

[morgousky]

Hey sweetheart, dont go dragging me into your little pissing contest.

Not one of your replies in this thread makes any sense.

Cal's ultimate advantage is recruiting yet you disagree with how the best recruiter in the game handles things.... ok.

I bet I could out recruit Cal if given the chance. Just need a shot.

 

[morgousky]

I think you have noticed by now that I have hit the like button on essentially all of your posts in this thread.
You are posting my exact thoughts on this.
I can't believe there are people that are okay with UK getting used and lied to.
I wish I knew what Cal's true thoughts were on this, because I feel like it's going too far now.

Ha I noticed that Jeff. I owe you a 20 or 100 likes.

 

[Pewee Cat]

He is gone & everyone knows it. He played Cal & UK to prepare himself for the nba. As a parent of UK student who works there butt off to pay tuition it just irks me knowing my hard earned money helps pay their way.

 

[bookerfan66]

He was invited to the combine.

 

[wailupebob]

View embedded media

This Diallo situation is weird. Cal muat have known Diallo may go pro. Why didn't Diallo play when Fox and Monk aat on bench for ten minutes?
UK got "played"


Players first!

 

[Mike-D]

I honestly don't think Calipari is a very good X's and O's coach, or even one that manages timeouts well. We've seen many examples of what I'm talking about. Being able to say "we're young" hides a little bit of that.

Explain UMASS and Memphis.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

Okay, so at what point do you get fed up and say "this ain't right"? 3 more?
My point is, if it's not okay after 3 dudes do it, why is it okay for 1 to do it?

What is this "why is it right stuff?" What is to be done about it? Nobody knows if Diallo had this in mind the whole time, and for the gazillionth time, he isn't even gone yet. Are we supposed to sign a petition demanding Cal never do it again? Are we supposed to badger Diallo until he says "my bad" and comes back? I just can't understand all this sturm und drang about this. He may very well come back, and even if he doesn't, there is nothing we can do about it. And I seriously don't see how anyone thinks Cal would let this happen again.

 

[natchezrule]

GonzoCat not very smart. One can be frustrated with a kid using Kentucky for 4 months with no benefit to Kentucky basketball and be concerned with the increasing trend of fringe players leaving Kentucky as soon as humanly possible and still be satisfied with the job Cal has done.

Doubt he can think that analytically though.

I don't know. Gonzo's not so dumb. I mean, really, this isn't so complicated. Maybe you are over thinking it

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

I honestly don't think Calipari is a very good X's and O's coach, or even one that manages timeouts well. We've seen many examples of what I'm talking about. Being able to say "we're young" hides a little bit of that.

Cal took a UMass team that was one of the worst teams in Div 1 and within 4 yrs they had won 30 games and the #1 team in the country. But, yeah, he can't coach a lick. Oh, and that was well before the OAD era by the way.

 

[track42]

If he leaves there is no chance I see Cal doing this again.Thankfully this seems a rare situation.

 

[JFCats22]

Diallo invited to NBA combine

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

If he leaves there is no chance I see Cal doing this again.Thankfully this seems a rare situation.

Exactly. We have very rational people working themselves up about something that is extremely unlikely to ever happen again. Seems like they are even talking about the possibility of regular recruits doing this, and not just those who would join the team mid-season, because that is very, very rare. And if a regular recruit tried that, they would lose their scholarship as soon as they refuse to play. I'm just amazed this is becoming a thing to get so riled up about.

 

[morgousky]

Cal is not the same coach he was at Umass. That point is void. He doesn't recruit the same and doesn't coach the same. I've always believed he went liberal in his ways due to his extremely young rosters. He wants the studs to see his teams play free. He simplifies the system we operate for them. That's why people scratch their heads at his floor coaching and use of timeouts. It makes it appear he's just not a floor guru.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

Cal is not the same coach he was at Umass. That point is void. He doesn't recruit the same and doesn't coach the same. I've always believed he went liberal in his ways due to his extremely young rosters. He wants the studs to see his teams play free. He simplifies the system we operate for them. That's why people scratch their heads at his floor coaching and use of timeouts. It makes it appear he's just not a floor guru.

UNCheat fans have been railing about Williams use of timeouts for years. He has 3 titles. Not exactly the worst thing to suck at.

 

[morgousky]

Exactly. We have very rational people working themselves up about something that is extremely unlikely to ever happen again. Seems like they are even talking about the possibility of regular recruits doing this, and not just those who would join the team mid-season, because that is very, very rare. And if a regular recruit tried that, they would lose their scholarship as soon as they refuse to play. I'm just amazed this is becoming a thing to get so riled up about.

Maybe. But maybe not.

We have such young rosters, and short roations, ONE player, one, tries this crap in any given year and we can drastically lose our shot at a title.

I agree with you, it's probably not going to happen that way. But there was a time you and I would have laughed at the notion of players leaving without guaranteed. It happens now. There was a time when we would have laughed at the thought we'd lose 3-5 guys a year or more to the NBA. It's routine now. There was a time we'd laugh at thinking a player would be none and done? I don't know.

I think it's healthy for fans to express outrage if it happens. Not for this situation in and of itself, but so Cal gets the message loud and clear. We will not tolerate this in the future. We will not tolerate this turning into somewhat of a trend. That's all I'm saying.

 

[The_Answer1313]

I can't believe Cal has been here for 8 years and we are still having discussions about whether he is a good coach vs just a great recruiter.

Even here. Some of the less talented teams he got them to final fours lol.

 

[morgousky]

UNCheat fans have been railing about Williams use of timeouts for years. He has 3 titles. Not exactly the worst thing to suck at.

True. But 3 straight shock clock violations etc .....

If someone doesn't think Cal managed timeouts well, how in the world could someone possibly even debate it whether they agree or not?

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

Ok, yes, if Cal recruits a player who does not join the team mid-season and refuses to play from the jump, then I will be outraged. Spoiler alert, that's never going to happen.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

True. But 3 straight shock clock violations etc .....

If someone doesn't think Cal managed timeouts well, how in the world could someone possibly even debate it whether they agree or not?

Of course Cal has deficiencies. And yes, his style of coaching has changed. Haven't checked, but I would guess his winning percentage is either the same or better since he changed though.