Commonwealth Stadium moves down to 2nd biggest in state come 2018 now
- Thread starter JHB4UK
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Steeler....personally know 5 buds who now have season UL tickets but remain UK basketball fans. They each had season UK tickets for more than 15 years. They try to recruit me constantly, especially after each UK loss, but no luck. While I fully admit my zeal for UK football is falling rapidly to the point of resignation, I just can't get into switching.
I don't know two Kentucky fans that have bought season tickets at Papa John's. I think some are confusing that with a swap of loyalties. I had season tickets at Kentucky a couple years in the late 90's because I lived in Lexington; but I damned sure was rooting for Louisville when we played.
I've never quite grasped the obsession with the number of people who need to be at your games whether it be regular season, Spring Games or bowl games as a barometer of performance. Nobody hangs a banner with attendance on it. I never gave a crap how many fans were in Memphis in the 2004 Liberty Bowl or the 2006 Orange Bowl or the Sugar Bowl for that matter. It only mattered to me that we were there. It's something that strikes me as a little different from our fan base in Louisville and yours at Kentucky. It's a cheap wedge issue.
In the end people will show up when you are competitive, and will stay warm at home or take in the races through the last one at Keeneland if you aren't.
I've never quite grasped the obsession with the number of people who need to be at your games whether it be regular season, Spring Games or bowl games as a barometer of performance. Nobody hangs a banner with attendance on it. I never gave a crap how many fans were in Memphis in the 2004 Liberty Bowl or the 2006 Orange Bowl or the Sugar Bowl for that matter. It only mattered to me that we were there. It's something that strikes me as a little different from our fan base in Louisville and yours at Kentucky. It's a cheap wedge issue.
In the end people will show up when you are competitive, and will stay warm at home or take in the races through the last one at Keeneland if you aren't.
If you don't see the greater significance of one team expanding and one team decreasing in a sport and a conference where stadium size is everything then you're missing the big picture. It has EVERYTHING to do with the two AD's. Mitch models his stadium and program after Oregon and ultra liberal pacific northwest programs that couldn't care less about the tradition and pageantry of college football. Tom models his after Clemson, Georgia, and other southern programs that realize how important every little detail affects your program.
Stop trying to make sense and use logic on this board, especially in a thread that concerns MB. Don't you know that NOTHING he can do will be applauded? To hell with making our stadium look better, adding high-dollar boxes to make money, and building one of the best football training facilities in the country. None of it matters because of Southern Miss!!!!!!!
Yes, I'm being sarcastic and pointing out how some on here have turned this forum into a cesspool of nothing but 100% negativity. If you are rooting for UK to fail just to make yourself feel better about your feeling concerning MB or Stoops, you probably need to reassess a few things.
The program isn't where we want it to be, but the investments are finally there. Let's see if they can actually pay off.
I agree with most of your post. I live in Western ky. Use to make many games to Commonwealth as many do from here. Mitch might be smarter than most know. Look I'm an amputee below the left knee and a total knee replacement on my right leg. Every one knows the parking situation. When you find a spot it's a long walk. That long walk would be hard on me plus I now have COPD. ( enough on my health problems) The bottom line is setting watching at home in my recliner on my big screen is practical. I know many don't like Mitch B. and that is your choice.
You can't build an upper level SEC football program overnight. I think we win enough games to go to a bowl game this year. That would work well for us and next year we make another jump toward moving up in the SEC!
Any true UK fan would NEVER switch over and start rooting for UofL in anything. That's just pathetic. And who cares if their stadium is a couple of thousand seats bigger than Commonwealth. Most games it'll be full of empty seats. UofL has to sell seats at $10 a pop in their upper level to get people to show up. They may sell the suites with no problem but the extra seats will probably have to be given away.
You nailed it. In the beginning we made them dance to our tune: all games to be played at CWS until their new stadium was built, forcing the UK home games in the series to be played the third week of the season so that UK could have a couple of cupcake tune-up games, etc.etc. Now, at least as far as the results on the field are concerned, you can argue that we are dancing to theirs.
My wife and I attended the 1994 UK-UL contest (hyped as "Game One"). It was cool that UK won that game. Leaving the stadium that night, none of us had any idea that UK wouldn't win another FB game until 1995. Curry should have been fired at season's end, but in another display of his football-management acumen, Newtown allowed him to coach for two more seasons. Sad.
While I do disagree a bit with your premise about empty seats, for the sake of argument let's just say it's true. In stadium economics today, I'm not so sure that seats aren't anything more than a loss leader in many regards to sell suites and club tickets. That's where the money is, and they appear to be selling very well in this expansion. The donations alone more than make up from any lost concession revenue from people not showing up. Which is why UL can afford to sell uppers at $10.
We averaged about 40K people when our stadium held 42K. We average probably 49K now that we're at 52K. Logic dictates we'll probably average 57K or so when we expand to 62K, which when combined with the suite/club revenue, makes expansion well worth it.
For the record, most schools struggle with attendance outside of the big games these days for all the reasons already described in this thread. Even the traditional SEC powers. It's just the nature of how games are watched these days.
True, they did play in 2000 and Louisville hosted FSU in 2002. I was actually referring to FSU visiting Louisville in 1986 and 1991 but yes, they did come again in 2002 but that occurred after the 1994 debut of the modern football series between UK and UofL. I was referring to the things that happened during Howard's building time at Louisville. 3 horrible years from 85-87 and then three winning seasons (88-90, 93-94) and his bowl wins and the push to build the stadium. Also the great schedules he played during his run here (Louisville was an independent), WVU (5 times), IU (twice) Florida State (3 times, home games in 86' and 91'), Virginia Tech multiple times, Maryland, Tennessee (3 times) 91' being home game, North Carolina (2 times), Virginia (2 times), Ohio State (2 times), Florida (once), Texas (2 times, 93' home game), Texas A&M (3 times, 95' home game), Arizona State (3 times).
True, Louisville hosted FSU in 2002 but I was referring to playing them in 86', 87' and 91' before the Governors Cup began.
i agree w most of this but the fact is UL generates more revenue from basketball than UK. it is a fact. so maybe the on court performance isn't quite on par but in other areas related to basketball they are ahead there too.
I tend to agree with this. I think the nuance here is the "bandwagon" fans that exist no matter the geography. There are plenty of people who live in Louisville (or elsewhere in the state) that did not grow up in KY or who do not have a natural allegiance to either school. It is these fans that could be susceptible to "rooting for UL" whereas in the past it was UK that picked up most of these types of fans. I certainly know a few who are now "rooting for UL' and these guys have always been UK backers since I've known them.
I think the context in which fan support is often brought up here is that UK fans are miserable that our fanbase has long been loyal and considerable (in numbers), despite the fact that our return on investment as fans has been wretched.
With regards to UL, I think people get a bit irritated b/c Tom Jurich (we feel) often presents a false narrative about the passion of the UL fanbase. I think UL has a solid fanbase considering that its reach is relatively small (most UL fans are within the city of Louisville while most UK fans who went to the school and those who did not are all over the state including in your city). So, adding 10,000 seats seems completely unnecessary and perhaps is a sign that they just want to have the biggest stadium in the state. Tennessee tried something similar in basketball once and it did not go well for them.
I don't think UL will be a fixture at the top of college football (I am not saying that UL will wither up and die, but I don't see them as a consistent top 10 team), so i suspect that in relatively "lean years", the attendance situation and lots of pink seats will not look good on TV.
My question to you would be why in a time of declining attendance for football would UofL be adding more seats especially after they just had a recent expansion? The demand for extra seats are there for maybe one or two games a year at most since UofL isn't averaging anything close to a sellout now. This is just posturing by Jurich so he can say look at us we have a bigger stadium now. Never mind the fact that they have to basically give away tickets to try and fill it up as it stands now.
Um hello. The only reason they have more revenue in basketball is the Yum Center. And of course there was nothing shady about that deal at all.
I live in Eastern Kentucky and while its still overwhelmingly UK, I do see Louisville license plates, stickers, and apparel every day. I also workout here at a local gym where a lot of high school kids workout ( a lot of football players, specifically) and you rarely see them wear UK gear. I've seen more Ohio State and Louisville football gear than I have Kentucky. So my point was, that while I live in maybe the most pro-UK section of the state...where when I was in high school there was no UL gear...now there's a visible influx of people that are becoming UL fans.
Also, we live in a state when college basketball is a way of life and college football has only recently become a "thing" for a lot of people and I think a lot of people are simply looking for a team to root for and are rooting for Louisville because they're a state team.
oh no doubt, they've played financial politics to perfection. but to sit back and think they don't know what they're doing with the stadium expansion - well, they seem to be lapping us in far too many ways far too often.
Dude who boycotts the games is complaining about losing seat capacity. Welcome to 2016.
of course it was shady. But for many folks here, not doing something shady - in order to win games - is a personal failure of Barnhart. We don't have a Willie Williams or a Michael Dyar or a Devonte Fields. Never rehired a coach that stabbed us in the back, revealed himself to be a liar, a cheat and a thief. Never had ESPN say we were a "joke", never had Sports Illustrated say "now we know all they care about is winning", never had Fox Sports refer to us as having "a rogue athletics department." Never had a coach have sex with a stranger on a restaurant tabletop, then send his assistant with $3k to drive her out of state for an abortion. Never had an assistant coach fund 22 parties with hookers in dorms. the list could go on and on, naturally.
Some people don't care about any of that. All that matters is winning. So if you can scalp the taxpayers and get a sweetheart lease that ought to result in prosecution, but does not and instead makes you "the most profitable basketball program in the country!".......well, if the rival does that and you do not, it just proves he's serious about winning and you are a Mormon who ought to resign yesterday.
I explained that in my post - suites. The most logical place to add suites was the endzone, and you have to have regular seating to surround the suites and fill out the rest of the structure. If suites could be added without adding more seating, maybe that would have been an option.
Also, to a lesser extent, more seating means more season ticket sales and donations, whether those seats get used each game or not. I don't think you pay $60 million just for posturing sake. This isn't the annual Michigan/Tennessee pissing contest where each adds a couple hundred seats a year to be #1 in the nation. There's an obvious revenue goal here as well.
This is Tom Jurich we're talking about and he has a purpose on EVERYTHING he does. Like putting a billboard up on I64 saying we're miles ahead. That was a subtle dig and when he saw a great opportunity to give UofL a bigger stadium he didn't hesitate. I'll give him credit in that he has greatly improved the athletics programs at UofL since he's been there. I just don't like the way he has gone about doing it. He's proven he cares about winning and will cut whatever corners to see that it happens.
Right on most fronts, but the calculated risk that Jurich has been taking for years and years is that the media has a short memory. Do we still hear pretty frequent jokes about what a slime bag Petrino is? Sure? Do we still hear motorcycle jokes from national columnists? Sure. But, we hear a lot more about Lamar Jackson and Bobby's "coaching genius" than we do those things now. TJ is probably the dirtiest athletic director in the country, but he knows what he is doing. Ride the storm out long enough, and blue skies will be ahead.
All of the above is true, UNLESS they someday get caught doing something so bad that it shuts them down (or handicaps them severely). It's pretty clear that they have a university-wide culture of corruption (every day there is a new article - today's article from Eric Cardinal at WDRB talks about how UL's endowment lost a ton of money last year and much of that lost came from "intra-university" loans which seem shady as hell). The only way things change over there is if the new president comes in and cleans house. I wouldn't bet on it.
That's due to a 100% shady, and potentially illegal, lease deal that UL negotiated with "the city". I prefer UK not to dip to those levels just to say "we're the most profitable program in the country".
I wish this could be pinned at the top of every thread where UK "fans" are complaining that MB isn't more like Jurich. Hall of fame post.
The media around here doesn't have a short memory. They are part of the problem as they will lie/twist/cover-up/deny/ignore anything that goes on. They don't want to know the truth so they don't dig. They simply go by what Jurich says and if anyone steps out of line he tries to silence them. So is life in this hellish bubble that is the city of Louisville.
Hey, if the City of Lexington was dumb enough to offer UK that deal for Rupp Arena, or say a new arena, then UK would not be so stupid as to turn it down. UK's interest should be their priority #1, not helping the City save money while costing the University millions. Same goes for UL. I don't understand this logic. What would you have UL do?
Barnhart doesn't have to be like Jurich. Just wish he was competent in his hiring and contract management. Jurich is a turd of the highest order. But he is looked upon as one of the best AD's in the country by nearly every media outlet available. I am not sure of that but there is no denying that he is certainly one of the most powerful. He owns that town.
The problem, IMO, with many of our fans is that they think getting a good coach that is not slimy, isn't possible. But it's a moot point. I am hoping Stoops gets it done because I don't want to see this AD hire another coach. For any major program.
yep, I've made that very point several times. I really don't remember the national media reacting to something the way they reacted to the re-hire of Petrino. It was scalding. Should have left burn marks. But Jurich knew two things. One, the local media guys - who really have more of an impact on his constituency (UofL fans and boosters) -- were much more muted in their criticism. heh. I guess you can call "Bobby P is back!!" muted criticism. And two, the national guys, as pointed as they were, would move on after a two day news cycle. So, cynically, you just keep your head down, and it will blow over. Then, when the games start next year, as you say, no one is talking about the motorcycle, the lying, the walking out on his team in the middle of night. All they talk about is, boy, can he play call.
Of course, that's only part of the debate. The old saying 'character is what you do when nobody is watching' comes into play. OK, so you're not getting criticized for doing something questionable. Still, you know you did it. The fans know you did it. Everyone knows you did it. Does it make it OK if no one talks about it?
Another purpose would be making money, which is what this expansion is about. I'm not sure how to explain it further. You obviously are convinced that the expansion is solely about having the biggest stadium in the state, so I guess it's pointless to try to convince you otherwise.
Whatever the reasoning was, the expansion is full speed ahead and has been pretty successful so far no matter what the ultimate motive.
Of course Jurich knew that the insane media backlash would be worth the hiring of Petrino..winning cures all. Petrino's misdeeds weren't at a level that couldn't be easily forgotten with some big wins. Hiring Petrino wasn't even a calculated risk in my view as much as it was simply a smart, logical hire. There was little doubt that Petrino would be successful at Louisville and would play a brand of football that would be perfect for selling tickets and expanding stadiums. Fast forward 2.5 years and Petrino is on every top 10 coaches in College Football list and its only the contrarian writer looking for clicks that we even see negative articles about Petrino now.
The expansion isn't about having the biggest stadium in the state. Is Tom Jurich happy that UL has the biggest stadium? I'm sure he is...but the stadium is being expanded because:
------>"as of today, we have completely sold out of field-level suites, completely sold out of premium boxes, and we’ve sold over 50 percent of our club seats"<---------
^^^^^ UL makes so much money on those suites and boxes that in reality those extra 10,000 seats or however many are being added are simply a byproduct of the suites and boxes. Make no mistake that's the only reason the stadium is being expanded. Those suites and boxes are sold out 2 years in advance...thats all you need to know.
The expansion isn't about having the biggest stadium in the state. Is Tom Jurich happy that UL has the biggest stadium? I'm sure he is...but the stadium is being expanded because:
------>"as of today, we have completely sold out of field-level suites, completely sold out of premium boxes, and we’ve sold over 50 percent of our club seats"<---------
^^^^^ UL makes so much money on those suites and boxes that in reality those extra 10,000 seats or however many are being added are simply a byproduct of the suites and boxes. Make no mistake that's the only reason the stadium is being expanded. Those suites and boxes are sold out 2 years in advance...thats all you need to know.
Guys...Louisville was making more at Freedom Hall in basketball than you guys were at Rupp up to that point and the reasons were easy...better lease and those 25 suites that were installed in 1985.
...but here we are back to talking about who makes more money...wake me when I get a residual check from all this money being made by either athletic department.
...but here we are back to talking about who makes more money...wake me when I get a residual check from all this money being made by either athletic department.
not sure if it's what you're actually advocating, but the point you make is the only thing that matters is winning.
is that true?
If it's not true, where do you draw the line? what kind of coach (what kind of baggage) is acceptable, and what is not?
If there is any conference that has schools known for being willing to do anything to win, it's the SEC. right? how can you explain the alleged "blackball" of Petrino by the SEC? I don't know if that is a real thing or not - but I do know at least two SEC schools refused to interview him. that, plus the columns and interviews on ESPN, FoxSports and SI in January 2014 give testimony that a lot of people - a lot of people - viewed Petrino as a sort of scurrilous character.
where do you draw the line? Petrino is OK, but Briles is not OK?
Right now, on this site, there are plenty of very mad and frustrated fans - frustrated by 60+ years of mediocre football, of administrations not really caring about winning big at UK, and now about a rival that is doing very well thank you very much. if you listen to them, there is no line - just win, and if you're not cheating (lying, stealing) you're not trying.
From my perspective, it is not reality that fans are switching allegiances. I think you will find more Kentucky football fans speaking less negative about Louisville's football team. They are not becoming fans but are recognizing a very good team.
If you are a football fan, you are silly to criticize their play. They are one of the top 6 - 7 teams.
I actually know 2 people that have converted to UofL for football but remain UK for basketball. I also know one person who switched completely from UK fan hood to UofL fan hood. I live in Louisville so that's probably less surprising than in your area.
Time will tell but I think the bubble will burst on UofL. Right now TJ is running circles around MB, but the tactics he uses are very questionable. No doubt UK football better get its act together on the field, but financially wise UK seems to be doing it the most sustainable way.
This makes little sense. If I am Barnhart, and if I see empty seats, I am opening the gates at halftime and inviting everyone in for $10, $1, or free.
I want the stadium to appear as full as possible. I would want people in the stadium where they would buy shirts, jerseys, hot dogs, whatever puts money into the pockets of the athletic dept.
Giving seats away makes more money than keeping them empty.
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