Both coaches have brought glory to the program and tarnished their reputations here. Which coach in your opinion will have the better retrospective time here IYO?
Cal’s Legacy At UK vs. Pitino’s
- Thread starter Random UK Fan
- Start date
Only way Cal has a better career here is to win another title. If not, it’s Pitino. If we had DA in 1997, we go back to back and then 3 peat in 1998.
I got to see how Cal’s time comes to an end here before making a decision.
One loved Big blue nation , One thinks it's a group of red neck hillbillies. Thats enough for me .
Cal needs a 2nd title along with 2-3 consecutive good solid years with elite 8 or better finishes to end his career if he wants to surpass Pitino. As good as the first 6 years of Cals tenure were the last 7 have been brutal as a fan.
If we want to play the injury game.. Cal would have a heck of a lot more success as well.
End of the day, Pitino didn't have DA, and he didn't win the title in 1997.
Cal just needs another Final4 to cement this. Doesn't need to have another title IMO.
Don’t know which could be considered better, guess it’s just fan opinion. But it’s a fact that Pitino didn’t win the title in 97 or 98. He gets no credit for those. I do love what Rick did here though. The mid 90’s run was the most fun I’ve ever had as a fan. But Cals run from 2010 to 2015 was epic.
Comparing Calipari's "tarnished" reputation at Kentucky to "tarnished" Pitino's is laughable.
One guy split after 7 years, joined up with our rival, was caught up in a extramarital scandal involving abortion and bribery, had a national title stripped, was caught directly paying players and was involved in a scandal involving funneling street hookers to basketball players.
The other has had some down years.
Seems close. Seems close.
One guy split after 7 years, joined up with our rival, was caught up in a extramarital scandal involving abortion and bribery, had a national title stripped, was caught directly paying players and was involved in a scandal involving funneling street hookers to basketball players.
The other has had some down years.
Seems close. Seems close.
1. It's Pitino....not even close.
2. Pitino is the 1996 ring....but the 1998....many fans give Pitino a lot of that credit as he left the talent level at crazy high for Tubby to coach that team to a ring. So, it's almsot like Pitino has 1.5 rings to many.
3. Pitino never had the lows of Cal.....never missed a tournament outside of probation from Sutton.
4. Pitino finished in final AP top 10 every year besides his first year at UK.
5. Pitino got to 3 final fours in 8 years....2 more elite 8 and (and 2 of those years not eligible for post season).
6. Pitino did what was best for him (in his eyes) which was always winning...and thusly winning for UK. He never got into this butt kissing players crap. He made the call to go away from Rod Rhodes...which bounced to the 1996 roster of Derek Anderson, Ron Mercer. He didn't' force Wayne Turner as high rated kid...he played Anthony Epps who fit that roster better. He brought in players like Mark Pope that fit the team needs instead of only wanting high rated guys that maybe didn't fit the system/team needs.
And when Pitino left...vast majority of fanbase hated to see him go but understood the Boston thing he felt he had to scratch that northeastern stuff in his blood. Now going to UL ticked off a ton (including myself) but once you get past that.....Pitino was great for UK and is/was a ton better than Cal (who has been very good...but not elite).
2. Pitino is the 1996 ring....but the 1998....many fans give Pitino a lot of that credit as he left the talent level at crazy high for Tubby to coach that team to a ring. So, it's almsot like Pitino has 1.5 rings to many.
3. Pitino never had the lows of Cal.....never missed a tournament outside of probation from Sutton.
4. Pitino finished in final AP top 10 every year besides his first year at UK.
5. Pitino got to 3 final fours in 8 years....2 more elite 8 and (and 2 of those years not eligible for post season).
6. Pitino did what was best for him (in his eyes) which was always winning...and thusly winning for UK. He never got into this butt kissing players crap. He made the call to go away from Rod Rhodes...which bounced to the 1996 roster of Derek Anderson, Ron Mercer. He didn't' force Wayne Turner as high rated kid...he played Anthony Epps who fit that roster better. He brought in players like Mark Pope that fit the team needs instead of only wanting high rated guys that maybe didn't fit the system/team needs.
And when Pitino left...vast majority of fanbase hated to see him go but understood the Boston thing he felt he had to scratch that northeastern stuff in his blood. Now going to UL ticked off a ton (including myself) but once you get past that.....Pitino was great for UK and is/was a ton better than Cal (who has been very good...but not elite).
You mean the guy who flipped off UK fans "loves" big blue nation....laughably stupid comment.
This is the most reasoned, accurate summary.
I think both fall in that later category. Pitino honestly thought UK fans would follow him over and cheer for ul. That’s about a delusional as one can get in regards to BBN.
Easy one...if Cal wins it all this year he beat Rick hands down.
Otherwise Rick was better. I'm not holding all the off court
sleaziness against Rick since that was all UL's fault.
ps: if you take into account character, then Rick doesn't make the list at all
Otherwise Rick was better. I'm not holding all the off court
sleaziness against Rick since that was all UL's fault.
ps: if you take into account character, then Rick doesn't make the list at all
Last edited:
If Cal gets another title he has to be the number 2 guy whether you love or hate him.
Without that it isn’t even close, especially considering when Cal leaves you likely have 0 returners and recruits that may or may not stay, pitino left a team that won a title.
Without another title it’s pitino by far 2nd and not much difference between the other 3 good coaches Kentucky has had post Rupp.
Without that it isn’t even close, especially considering when Cal leaves you likely have 0 returners and recruits that may or may not stay, pitino left a team that won a title.
Without another title it’s pitino by far 2nd and not much difference between the other 3 good coaches Kentucky has had post Rupp.
Not sure what determines a legacy, but Pitino brought the program back to life from probation. Cal has had the program's prestige traditions and reputation in steady decline for years now.
I disagree. Cal has certainly tarnished his reputation while being here, pitino did it later on by going to Louisville. If we are going by just time here then it’s pitino by a mile. Pitinos time here was as fun as basketball can be. Even the 14-14 season was a blast as we expected so little but received so much more including the 100-95 victory over shaq and LSU. Really the only season ending loss I can recall that was an unexpected disappointment was the 2nd round loss to Marquette in 94. 6 seasons where we were eligible for the tourney during his reign (3 final fours, 2 EE’s and the 1 2nd rd exit). Never lost more than 6 regular season games.
Cals first 6 years here was equivalent to pitinos last 6 but not as much fun as a whole. ( 4 final fours, 1 EE, 1 NIT). The NIT year put a damper on that run and then the next year while we did make the final four (and championship game), the season as a whole was anything but fun just like 2011. The years of 11/13/14 saw us lose 32 games. Pitino in his 6 year run lost a total of 30 games.
Only thing cal gets credit for over Pitino is staying and my opinion on this will not change even if cal miraculously gets that 2nd natty this year.
Where exactly do you think we were before Cal was hired?
I'm guessing you weren't up close and personal for the Billy Gillispie era?
Y’all clearly didn’t really know Pitino. I’ve heard Pitino refer to the uk fan base with disdain as a bunch of rednecks, while he was coach here at his restaurant. The only thing Rick ever loved was Rick.
Outstanding basketball mind though. Could never learn to get his ego out of the way, which is why he ended up at UL.
Outstanding basketball mind though. Could never learn to get his ego out of the way, which is why he ended up at UL.
We weren't on probation.
And in my opinion, Cal's last years or so are the same or worse than Billy's 2.
I mean, just wow. Classic RR post. You think G left us with the same talent level we have today? Never mind, waste of time…..
What? lol.
They have the same amount of titles, the same amount of title appearances, and Cal has one additional Final4.
If there's one argument to be made for Pitino its that he didn't have as many letdown years. However, that's not really how you evaluate success in sports.. It's always about what you accomplished. No one counts NBA missed rings. No one cares when Tom Brady choked in the undefeated Superbowl year. They count what you earned,
But it's certainly close, and in no way is Pitino that much better. If Cal wins another Final4, this conversation is over. Heck, even just another Elite 8 might end it.
Also, 1998 can't count as a title for BOTH Tubby and Pitino. Which is? When people want to defend Pitino against Cal, they say "Well, that 1998 title was really Pitino's".. but when they want to try and make Tubby look like he's not SEVERAL tiers behind Cal they then say "Well, he won the 1998 title, all by himself". Which is it? Tubby and Pitino can't both lay claim to the 1998 title.
Michael Porter was our starting PG.
Mark Coury started several games at C.
Worse than probation, and it wasn't close.
Classic reading comprehension issue. Did I mention talent level anywhere? Point it out in either of my posts please.
Also, I said he's had our traditions and reputation in decline for years. I chose those words carefully.
I never said anything about specific players. Some people can only think in terms of players these days.
Cal has missed the tourney, and had first and second round exits. Arguably a worse performance than Billy's 2 years.
And the talent will all be gone the minute Cal leaves. So it doesn't matter who our current players are.
Pitino without a doubt. We absolutely clobbered people when he was coaching.
I thought we had the chance to beat anyone and with Cal I feel as if we can lose to anyone.
Cal is the biggest underachiever in the history of college bb even surpassing Dean Smith.
I thought we had the chance to beat anyone and with Cal I feel as if we can lose to anyone.
Cal is the biggest underachiever in the history of college bb even surpassing Dean Smith.
A case could be made for either one, personally, right now, I'd take Cal, oddly enough. (over Pitino)
but my second favorite coach of all time, and will ALWAYS be there :
JOE B. HALL
sure, didn't have as many final fours (or maybe titles? if cal wins another 1)
but he was FAR more classy and big Blue - Through and through - than anyone else ever will be.
Coach Rupp
Coach Hall
Coach Cal
Coach Pitino
Coach Tubby
and there you go, at least for me.
but my second favorite coach of all time, and will ALWAYS be there :
JOE B. HALL
sure, didn't have as many final fours (or maybe titles? if cal wins another 1)
but he was FAR more classy and big Blue - Through and through - than anyone else ever will be.
Coach Rupp
Coach Hall
Coach Cal
Coach Pitino
Coach Tubby
and there you go, at least for me.
If you were a fan during the Pitino years it's hard to see how you don't favor Pitino. Even in Cal's first 6 years there was the 2013 NIT loss to Robert Morris.
Also I loved the playstyle of Pitino's teams. Also seemed to be a lot of coaching up of players then.
To be fair though, it was a different time then and there is no way to construct a 96 or 97 team any more.
Also I loved the playstyle of Pitino's teams. Also seemed to be a lot of coaching up of players then.
To be fair though, it was a different time then and there is no way to construct a 96 or 97 team any more.
In sports I’ve never heard of anyone debating only the best year of someone to determine whether they were better or not and ignoring everything else. You absolutely have to account for the worst season and worst loss in school history being on one coaches resume especially if the two are as close as you believe them to be.
Everything matters when comparing two people’s performance at the same job.
I also look at their Time at UK as this:
They both started in the bottom, both inherited situations or teams that would be considered one of the worst in program history so they have the same starting point. Pitino got to the top and left at the top. Cal got to the top and brought UK right back to the bottom of program history again. What he does from now determines if they stay at the bottom or get back to blue blood success that most fans want.
As far as the 1998 title counting for pitino I absolutely agree with you there though and if Cal gets that 2nd title no reasonable person could say he was worse than pitino.
Great post. I went to Coach Halls camp in 1978 and had Macy teach me how to shoot ft’s. I won the camp ft contest, btw. Hall was the most down to earth classy famous person I’ve ever met. Was totally unfair the relentless criticism the fan base dished out on him. We should have also won the NC in 75, but the refs weren’t going to let Wooden lose his last game.
It's literally the basis of every sports argument. You can name how many rings Lebron and Jordan won.. but you have to think for a second about how many they lost. Notice Kelce's record he broke yesterday? Jerry Rices playoff catch record. Now someone tell me their playoff pass drop record. Right or wrong, these types of debates are always about what you won, not about the times you came up short.
I think Cal's extra Final4, can probably cancel out some of these years of futility. But if he adds one more, that will do it. However, what if he gets a 7-seed with this team and loses first round? That would count against him, and you then start to push Pitino to the 2nd spot firmly.
But for me, it's hard to think the guy with one less final 4, is in better standing. Four F4's and like 7 or 8 Elite 8's is pretty damn impressive.
I was speaking of the pre-UL coach Pitino .. Yeah Rick's ego pretty much killed him .. but it also made him the best coach of the last 50 years at UK .. the question was while at UK from the OP , but I get it , he screwed the pooch BAD in leaving UK , but at least he acknowledged it , in his own way .
Well the current guy started Lance Ware several times .. last year .
I certainly see your point with players and eras and things to that nature. Jordan def gets credit for 6-0 while Lebron gets hated on for getting there more but losing, etc.
When comparing different coaches who have the exact same resources, program, etc. it makes it much more easy to use the whole body of work to determine who is better and not just their best seasons.
Arguments can be made that any of the 5 championship winning coaches are the best or worst if you cherry pick specific years. Players are completely different as they are limited physically to a “prime” and the game changes when the athletes change.
Coaching can change to with the athletes but there is no physical limitations on the coaches. They are able to adjust and change along with the atmosphere or get left behind.
Yeah I mean, I do like that Rick's record at UK is pretty great.. elite even.. from start to finish. That helps him in this argument for sure.
I'm with you. Joe B is my second to Rupp. I don't know that Cal could ever move from number 3 to number 2 with me but he's definitely behind Joe B. But this question is about Pitino vs Cal.
Legacy is what one sees it as. Comparing the two, Cal is the better coach, better man, better ambassador for the university and the State. Cal is a better family man. Just on the court Pitino brought an electric 5-6 year span that was just electric. And I give him full credit for the '98 title too.
They both ushered in new eras for UK basketball. The program was in worse shape when Pitino took over than when Cal took over. But Pitino also got to keep, Pel, Feldhaus, Farmer, Woods and Brassow. Cal got one legacy guy in Miller.
It's a pick 'em. I pick Cal between the two.
Agreed with all until the last. One more title for cal will not elevate him above pitino in my book. Cal will have taken 15 years to get 2 titles. Pitino had 6 years to get his 1 and damn near got his 2nd anyway and despite his departure what he left behind achieved a title and another EE the following year. Pitino was rolling while here and nothing indicates that was going to stop anytime soon. Had he been here for 15 years it’s not unreasonable to assume he gets 3 or 4 titles. I mean he took Louisville to 2005 FF in only his 4th year back to college ball.
You didn't mention Poy in 2015 and WCS in 2014 that both result in a title and 3 titles in 4 years for calipari.
On their actual results it's 100% Pitino though. If Cal had left after 8 seasons like Pitino I think he would have a good argument with 1 more final four. He wasn't smart enough to leave like pitino though and has tarnished his legacy big time post 2019 especially.
Unless Cal gets #2 it will be Pitino. The 1992 thru 1997 years were some of the best basketball years I have ever had. Style of play was great. Huge wins! and that era ended in basic dominating fashion. Cal brought that feeling back between 2010 to 2015. After that it has felt like the Tubby years.
Does one coach 8 years vs another 14 years not factor in all time accomplishments ? And trajectory is a second argument as well ?
Similar threads
