Bob Cousy responds to JJ Redick

[JPScott]

Sorry, but this is utter nonsense.

There are lots of reasons for improved performance - evolution isn't one of them. You don't evolve significantly in a 3 or 4 generations.

Exactly. 80 years is two or three generations, which in evolutionary terms is nothing . Instead, the difference between players today vs. 50 years ago is more related to things like access to better nutrition, healthcare, environmental factors, weight training, etc.. much moreso than evolution.

Beyond that as alluded to by Reddick who apparently tried to use it as a slight, it’s true many early athletes held second jobs. That’s because they weren’t paid the insane amounts of money that todays athletes are paid so they couldn’t afford to dedicate their life around playing one sport for part of the year and not worry about paying the bills the remainder of the time like athletes of old had to.

 

[BigKari]

You do realize he was playing with a large leather ball with no seams. Do you think players today could shoot that ball? Please show your ignorance and say yes.

So everyone in that era shot 37% for their career? Back up your talking point or stop talking about basketball.

 

[kelzer]

Good lord dipshit, I expect better from a paddock poster to recognize sarcasm.

Some dude in 1912 showed up in canvas sneakers and ran a 10.6 100M on a dirt track and 110 years later with 1000 dollar cleats, a rubberized track designed by NASA, and scouring the ends of the earth to find someone and start training them at the age of 5 the fastest person now runs the 100 m not even a second faster. Wilt Chamberlain is bigger and faster than Embiid.

Sorry I missed it too. In this day and age you never know if somebody's being sarcastic.

 

[rob_47]

That’s not true - over the past 80 years human beings have become more physically evolved and are a different species that humans of the 1940s. It’s why over the last 80 years of advancement and evolution the 100m sprint record has been shaved by almost an entire

That’s true too. But I still think you’d see similar play. JJ comment is idiotic. Wouldn’t expect anything less from the great halls of Duke.

No that's not true he needs to define evolution and species and then think about whether he wants to reconsider his view. Nothing about what he said is true besides the 100m sprints being improved but I can assure you their are other reasons as to why.

 

[Smashcat]

Sweet little highlight reel.

 

[JPScott]

So everyone in that era shot 37% for their career? Back up your talking point or stop talking about basketball.

 

[the nail at the foul line]

Thanks.

People talk a lot about things they have no idea what they're talking about.

By the way 1980 or 1981 is when they switched to the ball with the better seams in the NBA. College had switched earlier.

 

[HerrosHeroes]

How many titles does reddick have in college and pros combined?
Zero
So STFU

 

[BigKari]

This is the best support for JJ’s argument in the entire thread. Players got better. And you can see where shooting averages dipped when the 3 pointer came into play.

 

[JPScott]

Just for reference here's the chart for free throws. Obviously I haven't updated these charts in a number of years.

 

[the nail at the foul line]

This is the best support for JJ’s argument in the entire thread. Players got better. And you can see where shooting averages dipped when the 3 pointer came into play.

The game slowed down. Shooting percentages went up. The ball changed. There are other things involved.

 

[BigKari]

The game slowed down. Shooting percentages went up. The ball changed. There are other things involved.

That’s fine and all, but it’s not gonna make me ignore the main factor.

 

[Smashcat]

Interesting.

 

[Blueworld_3.0]

Funny thing is people like Reddick get butthurt when they comment on politics or global issues and the rest of us laugh at them. Hell, they don't even know their own sport and expect us to accept their opinions as legit. LOL!

 

[Creed Bratton]

Good lord dipshit, I expect better from a paddock poster to recognize sarcasm.

Some dude in 1912 showed up in canvas sneakers and ran a 10.6 100M on a dirt track and 110 years later with 1000 dollar cleats, a rubberized track designed by NASA, and scouring the ends of the earth to find someone and start training them at the age of 5 the fastest person now runs the 100 m not even a second faster. Wilt Chamberlain is bigger and faster than Embiid.

Sorry I didn't detect your poor attempt at sarcasm

 

[berniecarbo]

Case in point….

View embedded media

I'm far from a Ted Williams fan for several reasons that most fans of today know nothing about, but he was loyal to his country and the man could hit as well as anyone who ever played the game. When he was a rookie first called up, a teammate told him, "Wait till you see Jimmy Foxx hit." Foxx was the reigning AL MVP and a future Hall of Famer. Ted told his teammate, "Wait till Jimmy Foxx sees me hit."

Ted wrote the book on hitting. It's the equivalent of a college textbook called "The Science of Hitting." Anyone wanting to teach their kid hitting should drop by the local library or buy a copy.

 

[rick64]

Bob Cousy responds to J.J. Redick: ‘People with less talent will always try to make a name for themselves by criticizing other people’

Chris Paul's play this postseason has inspired plenty of beef.

www.yahoo.com

 

[CrimsonCats]

Just for reference here's the chart for free throws. Obviously I haven't updated these charts in a number of years.

I’m getting off on a bit of a tangent here since it wasn’t the overall point of the thread, but I find this chart particularly interesting since I get the impression that some announcers and fans view free throws as some kind of lost art. This shows that the overall percentage has never fluctuated more than about 5% in either direction since about 1960 and that the current numbers may actually be up slightly from the 90s.

 

[bkingUK]

There are some legends in that era but talent level isn’t what it is today. Was a different game. Further back you go in 20th century, lower talent level was. Doesn’t make success unimpressive but is what it is

 

[sluggercatfan]

There’s no way of knowing that. For example, Bob Beamon set the Olympic record for the long jump in 1968 at 29 ft 2 1/4 inches that still stands to this day (54 years). Mike Powell had a long jump of 29 ft 4 1/4 inches in 1991 in the World Championship games. Athletes were highly skilled back then, they just didn’t train year round like today’s athletes.

Because a lot of them had real jobs some of the years. Some of these/you guys need to do some research ...Wes Unseld, Rick Barry, Larry Bird, Cassie Russell, Julius Ervining, George Gervin, Dan Issel and there are many others that would beat the pants off these primadonns today.

 

[sluggercatfan]

No he couldn’t.

Yes he "would" have at same age.

 

[Eagle2019]

Lol wouldn’t have guessed that Bob Cousy was alive. Not saying the guys back then couldn’t hoop, but let’s be real. JJ isn’t too far off.

Remember players back then were not allowed to walk like they are today.

 

[John_dromo1]

Cousy would have embarrassed Reddick. He was a magician with the ball and was an all time great no matter the era. I'd say out players like Cousy, Baylor, Robertson, Maravich, Russell, etc. in today's game with the training and facilities of today and they would still be stars.

Don’t forget the footwear. Those guys played in canvas Chuck Taylor’s. That’s like playing in shoes with plywood soles.

 

[Cat in ga]

I played "back then".

If Officials from back then called a game today, players today would
be called for Walking and Palming
and would foul out in the 1st Quarter.

(Not to mention getting tossed with Technicals since they whine on EVERY CALL)

Greats would still be great.
After that, JJ is right.

Also guys today play a much softer game then they played back then. Today it’s just jacking three pointers all night

 

[Cat in ga]

Sweet little highlight reel.

View embedded media

Yeah he would run circles around JJ. Reddick can shoot no doubt, but he ain’t got that kind of game

 

[sambowieshin]

That’s not true - over the past 80 years human beings have become more physically evolved and are a different species that humans of the 1940s. It’s why over the last 80 years of advancement and evolution the 100m sprint record has been shaved by almost an entire second.

It's nutrition, training, shoes, weight training and facilities ....not evolution.
Evolution typically takes place over thousands of years, not 8 decades.

 

[NC Weasel]

The 40s thru 60s and even early 70s wasn't as physical either. The NBA got really rough starting in the 70s. College soon followed. Rule changes has softened it up some since then.

Also, the NBA only had 8-12 teams until the late 60s. Then started to gradually grow toward its current size. Its a subtle point, but those first 40 NBA years the talent was spread over very few teams. And while the talent pool wasn't as deep as today, for a multitude of reasons, those early teams had depth and basketball IQ we don't see today.

Anyone who saw Chamberlain, Oscar Robertson, Russell, Baylor, Frazier, Bird, or Magic play in their prime knows they could have played in any era. Perhaps not with the same stats. But as NBA stars.

I didn't even read Ridick's comments because, frankly, he hasn't ever done or said anything to warrant my time. His poetry at Duke wasn't even appreciated by their fan base. He's hardly a renaissance man.

 

[Ron Mehico]

It's nutrition, training, shoes and track surfaces....not evolution.
Evolution typically takes place over thousands of years, not 8 decades.

 

[ruppcat]

That’s not true - over the past 80 years human beings have become more physically evolved and are a different species that humans of the 1940s. It’s why over the last 80 years of advancement and evolution the 100m sprint record has been shaved by almost an entire second.

We're the same species.....our nutrition and health care is better. Biggest difference is guys train year round and have steroids and other PEDs available.

 

[jameslee32]

JJ Elitist

 

[nerdcat]

Cousy would have embarrassed Reddick. He was a magician with the ball and was an all time great no matter the era. I'd say out players like Cousy, Baylor, Robertson, Maravich, Russell, etc. in today's game with the training and facilities of today and they would still be stars.

Cousy never even shot 40% from the field. Very statistically consistent player, though, that played on some loaded teams.

 

[the nail at the foul line]

Bob Cousy discovers tools.

 

[wildcatsboston1984]

Cousy never even shot 40% from the field. Very statistically consistent player, though, that played on some loaded teams.

Very much a different era.

The year he averaged 20 a game, the league leader in FG% shot 49% and the league averaged was 39.5%. The league leader in true shooting percentage (which factors in free throws) in 1959 would have ranked just 59th this season despite there being considerably more free throws per game in 1959.

They played at a ridiculously fast pace in Cousy's era. League average pace was 118.9, today the average is 98.2. The fastest paced season we've had since the 70s was 107.8 in 1973-74. The slowest paced team in 1959 had a 115.5 pace, the fastest pace team this year was 100.9. We had our post 80s peak for pace in 2019-20 at 100.3 with the Bucks leading the way at 105.1

A shit load of possessions with a shit load of bricks, that's why guys like Wilt, Bill Russell, etc. had absolutely obscene rebounding numbers. 12 players averaged 10+ boards a game this season in a 30-team league, in 1959 11 players averaged 10+ boards a game in an 8-team league. If the NBA had rebounding rates like that (1.375 10+ rebounders per team), we'd have had 41 players average 10+ rebounds this year instead of 12.

 

[JC CATS]

Lol wouldn’t have guessed that Bob Cousy was alive. Not saying the guys back then couldn’t hoop, but let’s be real. JJ isn’t too far off.

Don't be a JJ Reddick, that idiot played got Duke, he said guys in80s couldn't play today, Jordan, Voted, Magic would absolutely dominate today

 

[Titpwhami2014]

Cut J.J. some slack guys, he’s still suffering from head trauma caused by Tyrus Thomas dunking all over his head in the 2006 Sweet 16. Last game he ever wore the Duke uni.

 

[Smashcat]

Don’t forget the footwear. Those guys played in canvas Chuck Taylor’s. That’s like playing in shoes with plywood soles.

Good point.

 

[michaeluk26]

These arguments are why I look at sports history through eras rather than just comparisons. I think both sides have merits in their views.

On this point it's crazy all the access to training and coaching that kids have today. It def seems to be making people more athletic in a general sense. Just in my lifetime alone I've seen the change. 1994 was the first year I played football at 11 because our county didn't have a league till then. People were picked out of the stands to ref, we didn't have lights or a working scoreboard. Our uniforms were plain and bland. The coaches were outta nowhere. There was cow shit on one of the fields. It was a mess but fun as hell. The second year things improved and now that league has become one of the most elite in the state. That's why our high schools are so good consistently. They have a feeder system now that other counties had before us. You've got year around sports now. Today's athletes have incomparable access to things that much older generations didn't.

 

[Ripcord65]

Human beings today are not genetically superior to human beings 50 years ago. Allow full access to the sport to all races back then, give those guys the same training advantages and you would see a similar product. JJ is an idiot and would not want to attack the rim with Wilt roaming the paint.

Or Bill Russell, or Walt Bellamy, or Nate Thurmond ... and on and on. Reddick is the quintessential Dukie whom you'd like to buy for how good he is and sell for how good he thinks he is - and whom you'd like to buy for how much he knows and sell for how much he thinks he knows !

 

[Topps Cat]

That’s not true - over the past 80 years human beings have become more physically evolved and are a different species that humans of the 1940s. It’s why over the last 80 years of advancement and evolution the 100m sprint record has been shaved by almost an entire second.

Wilt Chamberlain averaged 50 points per game in 1961-62 and also averaged 48.5 minutes per game, Because of overtime games his average surpassed 48 minutes. The previous year he averaged 47 minutes per game and in 62-63 he also averaged 47 minutes per game. By contrast, Shaq only averaged as many as 40 minutes once in his career. You might want to re=think your "evolution" theory.