Bevin vs Beshear for KY governor

[bushrod1965]

I'm an independent and vote accordingly from year to year, but I have to think Bevin is really happy with the results from the primary. The Democrats (IMHO) chose the only guy who has a chance of losing to him.

I’d disagree. Polling before the primary predicted a Bevin 20+ point primary win. Election night found 48% of his own party voting against him, an incumbent candidate in a state which rode a red wave in the 2016/2018 elections. And, the Republican primary turnout was abysmally poor (over 100,000 fewer Republican votes cast than Democratic votes) indicating many in his party preferred staying home over pulling the Bevin lever. Lastly, even with the red wave in the past couple elections, the Democrats still maintain a 49%-41% advantage in Kentucky voter registration. I’d think a combination of those things would be very concerning for Bevin after primary election night. He’s an extremely unpopular governor, even within his own party.

 

[WayneDougan]

The teachers will get 100 cents on the dollar of the pension terms under which they were hired. The state can reduce or modify benefits for future hires if a new pension bill passes, but those currently in the system will get what they were promised. Inviolable contract laws have been challenged in other states (Illinois) and the courts have ruled that inviolable means as exactly as it sounds, something that cannot be violated.

If there ain't no money, they ain't getting their full pension. You think this shit is getting resolved like normal (aka kick the can down the road). Not this time, Cowboy.

 

[DSmith21]

Detroit is completely irrelevant in the conversation around Kentucky’s pension issues. Federal law allows cities and other local municipalities to declare bankruptcy but the ability to declare bankruptcy doesn’t apply to state governments.

I mentioned Detroit because part of the pension problem there was created because a lot of the wealthier residence fled the area. This could also happen in Kentucky if there were massive tax increases to try to fill the pension void. The poster that I was responding to said this very thing, that he didn't have to stay here to be overtaxed. Don't expect the taxpayers to solely bail out the system. The state employees and retirees are going to have to share some of the pain.

 

[WayneDougan]

I mentioned Detroit because part of the pension problem there was created because a lot of the wealthier residence fled the area. This could also happen in Kentucky if there were massive tax increases to try to fill the pension void. The poster that I was responding to said this very thing, that he didn't have to stay here to be overtaxed. Don't expect the taxpayers to solely bail out the system. The state employees and retirees are going to have to share some of the pain.

Yup... Lexington and Bowling Green are the only "wealthy" areas in the state where a portion of the residents can't up and move to a different state and still work in the same locale.

 

[bushrod1965]

If there ain't no money, they ain't getting their full pension. You think this shit is getting resolved like normal (aka kick the can down the road). Not this time, Cowboy.

Again, I realize words are hard but inviolable means inviolable. Contract laws and courts will side on the employee contract rights every time and twice on Sunday. Plain and simple is the only can that’s been kicked down the road is the modernization of Kentucky’s tax codes to generate more revenue. This is the root of the problem that both the D’s and R’s have refused to tackle for 20 plus years. Kentucky exempts more potential special interest revenue from taxation than it brings into the General Fund. And what was the General Assemblies solution in the 2018 session? To reduce upper income taxes and increase lower income taxes with what basically amounted to a flat 5% state tax across income levels. Trying to fix a $40 billion dollar pension hole with no additional revenue isn’t going to work.

 

[cole854]

I’d disagree. Polling before the primary predicted a Bevin 20+ point primary win. Election night found 48% of his own party voting against him, an incumbent candidate in a state which rode a red wave in the 2016/2018 elections. And, the Republican primary turnout was abysmally poor (over 100,000 fewer Republican votes cast than Democratic votes) indicating many in his party preferred staying home over pulling the Bevin lever. Lastly, even with the red wave in the past couple elections, the Democrats still maintain a 49%-41% advantage in Kentucky voter registration. I’d think a combination of those things would be very concerning for Bevin after primary election night. He’s an extremely unpopular governor, even within his own party.

Polls, Shmolls......they had McConnell and Crimes neck and neck election eve. How did that one go.

It will be close, but anyone voting for Beshear is just opening up the can of worms his crooked father left behind.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Maybe we can use magic since it's inviolable and that means inviolable.

 

[DSmith21]

Again, I realize words are hard but inviolable means inviolable. Contract laws and courts will side on the employee contract rights every time and twice on Sunday. Plain and simple is the only can that’s been kicked down the road is the modernization of Kentucky’s tax codes to generate more revenue. This is the root of the problem that both the D’s and R’s have refused to tackle for 20 plus years. Kentucky exempts more potential special interest revenue from taxation than it brings into the General Fund. And what was the General Assemblies solution in the 2018 session? To reduce upper income taxes and increase lower income taxes with what basically amounted to a flat 5% state tax across income levels. Trying to fix a $40 billion dollar pension hole with no additional revenue isn’t going to work.

Many of the reforms that Bevin proposed would likely pass legal muster. For example, they were going to no longer allow teachers to save decades of vacation to be used at in the final years to juice up their pension calculations which are based on the final few years of pay. There are a lot of things that can be done particularly for those who are not yet retired. You could freeze public employee's salaries for a number of years and use the savings to help shore up the system. There are lots of ways to get the public employees to share in whatever the pain is going to be.

 

[bushrod1965]

Many of the reforms that Bevin proposed would likely pass legal muster. For example, they were going to no longer allow teachers to save decades of vacation to be used at in the final years to juice up their pension calculations which are based on the final few years of pay. There are a lot of things that can be done particularly for those who are not yet retired. You could freeze public employee's salaries for a number of years and use the savings to help shore up the system. There are lots of ways to get the public employees to share in whatever the pain is going to be.

Freeze public employee salaries for a number of years . . . that’s laughable. Have you spoken to a public employee about salary increases? They’ve basically been frozen since the Great Recession of 2008. While private sector jobs have recovered and shown 2% to 3% a year of income growth, state jobs and school employees have been stuck at 2008 salary levels for over 10 years. So, in that sense, they’ve already fallen on the sword for Kentucky taxpayers since their retirement will eventually be based on their average or high salary years.

 

[bushrod1965]

Maybe we can use magic since it's inviolable and that means inviolable.

I must have been right . . . words are hard for some.

 

[DSmith21]

Freeze public employee salaries for a number of years . . . that’s laughable. Have you spoken to a public employee about salary increases? They’ve basically been frozen since the Great Recession of 2008. While private sector jobs have recovered and shown 2% to 3% a year of income growth, state jobs and school employees have been stuck at 2008 salary levels for over 10 years. So, in that sense, they’ve already fallen on the sword for Kentucky taxpayers since their retirement will eventually be based on their average or high salary years.

Total B.S. You sound like some union shill. When you take benefits, and pensions into account, average public sector employees make much more that private sector employees.

 

[bushrod1965]

Total B.S. You sound like some union shill. When you take benefits, and pensions into account, average public sector employees make much more that private sector employees.

Like I said, rather than spew unsubstantiated rhetoric, try talking to a school bus driver or cafeteria worker who’s been making $8 an hour since 2008. Tell them face-to-face that they need to sacrifice their raises for their retirement. They’ll laugh in your face. There have been no COLA’s passed on to state workers or school employees in 10 years. And to make it sound like they have it so much better than private sector employees . . . laughable and misinformed.

 

[Rebelfreedomeagle]

Total B.S. You sound like some union shill. When you take benefits, and pensions into account, average public sector employees make much more that private sector employees.

They make around 30% less than private sector. If you took that 30% into any decent 401k over 27years of service it would be way more the retirement.

 

[DSmith21]

Like I said, rather than spew unsubstantiated rhetoric, try talking to a school bus driver or cafeteria worker who’s been making $8 an hour since 2008. Tell them face-to-face that they need to sacrifice their raises for their retirement. They’ll laugh in your face. There have been no COLA’s passed on to state workers or school employees in 10 years. And to make it sound like they have it so much better than private sector employees . . . laughable and misinformed.

Who would work for $8 hour driving a bus for a decade? Any smart person would drive for a trucking company or delivery service for much more. Your numbers are bullcrap. Teachers in Jefferson county who are say 50 years old are making nearly $60,000 per year for say 9-10 months of work. They can retire in their late 50's with half pay for life if they started right out of college.

 

[TopCatCal]

What would be good nicknames for Bevin & Beshear? Mine would be.

Matt Bevin The Jerk
Andy Beshear Daddys' Boy

 

[WayneDougan]

Again, I realize words are hard but inviolable means inviolable. Contract laws and courts will side on the employee contract rights every time and twice on Sunday. Plain and simple is the only can that’s been kicked down the road is the modernization of Kentucky’s tax codes to generate more revenue. This is the root of the problem that both the D’s and R’s have refused to tackle for 20 plus years. Kentucky exempts more potential special interest revenue from taxation than it brings into the General Fund. And what was the General Assemblies solution in the 2018 session? To reduce upper income taxes and increase lower income taxes with what basically amounted to a flat 5% state tax across income levels. Trying to fix a $40 billion dollar pension hole with no additional revenue isn’t going to work.

Who are you calling inviolable you son of a bitch!?!

 

[ram1955]

Many of the reforms that Bevin proposed would likely pass legal muster. For example, they were going to no longer allow teachers to save decades of vacation to be used at in the final years to juice up their pension calculations which are based on the final few years of pay. There are a lot of things that can be done particularly for those who are not yet retired. You could freeze public employee's salaries for a number of years and use the savings to help shore up the system. There are lots of ways to get the public employees to share in whatever the pain is going to be.

Agree with some of bevin's proposals. As a retired educator, I also agree the system is not sustainable.
Correction: teachers could NEVER save vacation days since they do not get vacation days. If you'd said they could save sick leave days, then you would be correct. Even then , that would be a reasonable move.

 

[ram1955]

I spoke with a former legislator about 6 months ago. We were talking about this among other things. He said, "No one if Frankfort has the guts to do what needs to be done....raise the sales tax by 1%."

Not sure if I agree, but it should be the similar to that of states that border us.

 

[WildcatFan1982]

Indiana has a 7% sales tax

 

[BlueKel]

Polls, Shmolls......they had McConnell and Crimes neck and neck election eve. How did that one go.

It will be close, but anyone voting for Beshear is just opening up the can of worms his crooked father left behind.

So, you don't like Beshear because of things his alleged crooked father did, but we should vote for Bevin because of his track record of being such an honest, upstanding guy? GTFO UNC boot-licker.

 

[cole854]

So, you don't like Beshear because of things his alleged crooked father did, but we should vote for Bevin because of his track record of being such an honest, upstanding guy? GTFO UNC boot-licker.

Semantics....but comparing the ethics of Beshear (any of them if you want to play that game) vs. Bevin is night and day.

Glad you are doing well.

 

[bushrod1965]

Agree with some of bevin's proposals. As a retired educator, I also agree the system is not sustainable.
Correction: teachers could NEVER save vacation days since they do not get vacation days. If you'd said they could save sick leave days, then you would be correct. Even then , that would be a reasonable move.

Actuarial analysis of Bevin’s plan (which had to be taken to court to get released because he tried to keep it hidden) showed his proposal was more expensive to implement than keeping the current pension plan in place by $2-$3 billion dollars. Those were actuaries done by his people. On the pension issue, his strings are being pulled by the Chamber of Commerce and his Wall Street buddies.

 

[sluggercatfan]

The ignorance from the left/teachers will allow them to forget who put them and this state in the financial straits for 8 yrs prior to Bevin, and the crooked son will garner a lot of support.

This...

 

[Hankshaker]

This...

This is literally one of the few times in his life that UKO has been any where close to being right. Please don't encourage him.

 

[qwesley]

if there were massive tax increases to try to fill the pension void.

generate more revenue.

bushrod can't say "tax increases"...buzzword machine.

 

[qwesley]

So, you don't like Beshear because of things his alleged crooked father did, but we should vote for Bevin because of his track record of being such an honest, upstanding guy? GTFO UNC boot-licker.

Plus being part of and backed by the Dem machine that created this shitty pension environment. Plus his close associate Tim Longmeyer being indicted for bribery. Dude is every bit the jackass Bevin is but is also incapable/unwilling to address our biggest problem.

 

[Sawnee Cat]

I spoke with a former legislator about 6 months ago. We were talking about this among other things. He said, "No one if Frankfort has the guts to do what needs to be done....raise the sales tax by 1%."

Not sure if I agree, but it should be the similar to that of states that border us.

Except maybe for Tennessee since they do not have a State Income Tax.

I can not imagine, a state that is experiencing financial prosperity, like Kentucky, would even think about turning around and going back to liberal Democrat control of their state house. One hundred years of that put Kentucky at the bottom of most every list Now Kentucky is enjoying a positive national image and the country is taking notice of their progress under a conservative governor. Jobs are being created and the standard of living statewide has improved.

With the addition of more jobs and higher paying jobs, Kentucky will have additional income to address the educational issue. A Democrat in control would take that extra income and give it out to the special interests. Just like they have done in the past.

 

[bushrod1965]

bushrod can't say "tax increases"...buzzword machine.

I have no problem saying there should be a tax increase. Kentucky exempts more special interest income from taxation than income it actually taxes. Tax reform and pension reform must be addressed at the same time. A $40-$60 billion dollar hole can’t be plugged with pension reform only. The math doesn’t work without a dedicated revenue stream into the pension deficit. Bevin said this himself while campaigning for governor in 2015, as well as in his first State of the Commonwealth Address in 2016. Then when the time came to address the issues, his nutsack shrank up into his abdomen and he turned the issue into pension reform only.

The bulk of the underfunding occurred during the Great Recession of 2008 and its aftermath. Tax revenue (and market returns) dropped and in Kentucky’s case, they didn’t fully fund the Actuarial Required Contribution to supplement the General Fund. Tax payers received a pass on an increase during the downturn and benefitted from the pension system not being funded. A day of reckoning has come, and someone is going to have to pay more to make up for the “get out of jail free card” taxpayers received years ago.

 

[qwesley]

I have no problem saying there should be a tax increase. Kentucky exempts more special interest income from taxation than income it actually taxes. Tax reform and pension reform must be addressed at the same time. A $40-$60 billion dollar hole can’t be plugged with pension reform only. The math doesn’t work without a dedicated revenue stream into the pension deficit. Bevin said this himself while campaigning for governor in 2015, as well as in his first State of the Commonwealth Address in 2016. Then when the time came to address the issues, his nutsack shrank up into his abdomen and he turned the issue into pension reform only.

The bulk of the underfunding occurred during the Great Recession of 2008 and its aftermath. Tax revenue (and market returns) dropped and in Kentucky’s case, they didn’t fully fund the Actuarial Required Contribution to supplement the General Fund. Tax payers received a pass on an increase during the downturn and benefitted from the pension system not being funded. A day of reckoning has come, and someone is going to have to pay more to make up for the “get out of jail free card” taxpayers received years ago.

Then use that terminology, that is what it is. Are you state employees willing to give up anything to help in any way? Do you all have any math on what the taxes you want increased and how much that will bring in or funding % projections? I would be interested in a ballot that put all those tax increases to public vote.

 

[homeytheclown]

Many of the reforms that Bevin proposed would likely pass legal muster. For example, they were going to no longer allow teachers to save decades of vacation to be used at in the final years to juice up their pension calculations which are based on the final few years of pay. There are a lot of things that can be done particularly for those who are not yet retired. You could freeze public employee's salaries for a number of years and use the savings to help shore up the system. There are lots of ways to get the public employees to share in whatever the pain is going to be.

*mustard

 

[mktmaker]

The only reason we've had Democratic governors is because of the two major primarily democrat voting bases in Louisville and Lexington. outside of that the vast majority of the state is red. It's exactly the problem our country would have if we got rid of the Electoral College.

You must be correct.

We wouldn't want the people determining the winners of elections!

 

[trueblujr2]

You must be correct.

We wouldn't want the people determining the winners of elections!

So you agree that basically the city of Los Angeles should dictate our presidential elections? Which is exactly what would have happened if not for the Electoral College. Why would any candidate need to campaign anywhere else other than NYC or LA?
Everyone else should just be ignored.

How has Mitch McConnel been able to stay in office for so long? Because no democrat can realistically challenge him out in the state.

 

[mktmaker]

So you agree that basically the city of Los Angeles should dictate our presidential elections? Which is exactly what would have happened if not for the Electoral College. Why would any candidate need to campaign anywhere else other than NYC or LA?
Everyone else should just be ignored.

How has Mitch McConnel been able to stay in office for so long? Because no democrat can realistically challenge him out in the state.

No, I do not agree.

Metro LA has a population of 13 M.

Do you think they (LA) "dictate our presidential elections" of a nation of 327 M people?

The voters should decide.

 

[Wall Knight Teague]

Look for many republicans to vote democrat in November and Beshear to win the race. For a sitting governor to barely win is not a good look for him.

Republicans will not vote for another scum-sucking Beshear.

 

[LordEggForgotHisPassword]

No idea who will win but I cannot for the life of me figure out why Bevin says the gratuitous things he does that provoke people who might otherwise abide his proposals quietly. For example, I know teachers that get it and are naturally conservative, but he comes out and makes outlandish statements that are borderline bizarre and insulting forcing those folks over the line into the opposition where as prior to that they may have well supported him, albeit without saying it.

 

[Hankshaker]

No idea who will win but I cannot for the life of me figure out why Bevin says the gratuitous things he does that provoke people who might otherwise abide his proposals quietly. For example, I know teachers that get it and are naturally conservative, but he comes out and makes outlandish statements that are borderline bizarre and insulting forcing those folks over the line into the opposition where as prior to that they may have well supported him, albeit without saying it.

He's basically Trump without the ability to successfully make a joke.

If Bevin would simply shut up, he would win in a landslide.

 

[trueblujr2]

No, I do not agree.

Metro LA has a population of 13 M.

Do you think they (LA) "dictate our presidential elections" of a nation of 327 M people?

The voters should decide.

Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by approximately 3 million votes. She won Metro LA by...wait for it...About 3 million votes. LA would have essentially decided the election.

 

[ManitouDan]

Actuarial analysis of Bevin’s plan (which had to be taken to court to get released because he tried to keep it hidden) showed his proposal was more expensive to implement than keeping the current pension plan in place by $2-$3 billion dollars. Those were actuaries done by his people. On the pension issue, his strings are being pulled by the Chamber of Commerce and his Wall Street buddies.

It was RUSSIA ... lol

 

[Creed Bratton]

It isn't just teachers getting screwed out of their retirement. Its every state employee from the police, firemen, county clerk employees, state road crew, judicial systems employees, etc. Well I said every state employee but I should say every state employee but past and present senators, representatives and governors who have fully funded retirement. What low life piece of crap robs from all other state workers for years but makes sure their own retirement if fully funded?

Other than the Teachers mostly throwing a hissy fit, what else has gone into the crapper?

 

[I am stupid]

As a person who will receive a state retirement, I would much rather receive less in the future rather than get more with a risk of never getting it.

Just me though. So I will vote Bevin again.