Beshear allowing most retail to re-open May 20, barber shops May 25.
- Thread starter Smashcat
- Start date
How about bars with patios showing baseball im the sun with cold beer and good food?
I don’t want to see anyone die that doesn’t need to.
Ultimate priority.
however, man I really wanna watch this team!
Ultimate priority.
however, man I really wanna watch this team!
Me too. The best team on paper in my lifetime and we may not even get to see them. Ahh, the life of a UK football fan lol.
Nobody has to die. If you’re in an at risk group stay home and watch on TV. That being said, Football and basketball is played in the heart of flu season, people still go to games and sit next to strangers. People get the flu and yeah some might even die from it but it’s a risk they decided to take when going.
Has anybody done a death count on all the millions of people who attended sporting events January through mid March?
Only temporary. You know alot more people are gonna get infected and spread it at places like church, factories, retail, etc the next few months. Everything's gonna get shutdown all over again when it starts to spread like wildfire. Same things gonna happen in the Fall and Winter. Rinse repeat until there's a vaccine.
Not so fast, my friend.
If we reach a significant anti-body level (which is really nature’s “vaccine,”) we might emerge from this more rapidly than more dire predictions.
Also, I’ll have no problem wearing a Big Blue face mask and swimming in hand-disinfectant at sporting events.
Well over 60,000 have died in two months, not only well exceeding the seasonal flu and its death rate, but on top of those flu numbers. I've taken note that the people who have not contracted the virus or lost family members are more apt to dismiss the gravity of its threat. Maybe these happy nonchalaunt folk should advise our medical personnel in this country they are making too big a thing about all this. My gawd don't they realize we have games to go to!!!!
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Well, in KY we've had 2200+ die of the flu this season and only 213 due to the China virus.
The numbers in NE part of the country are disproportionate to the rest of the country.
I'm not discounting safety, but not sure the Governors response is hitting the mark; Especially when you go to Walmart, Kroger and Lowes in my town and they're packed with people.
The numbers in NE part of the country are disproportionate to the rest of the country.
I'm not discounting safety, but not sure the Governors response is hitting the mark; Especially when you go to Walmart, Kroger and Lowes in my town and they're packed with people.
This is true as the CV19 is mainly affecting the American Northeast. TN and KY haven't been hit that hard by it and TN has kept its death level below KY's despite administering about 3 times as many tests and having a lot more cases. Sorry, I had to mention that after the nauseating "Andy is so amazing" posts on my FB from all my KY friends since CV19 started. It really is about population density...KY has less of it than NY, Mass, Florida, New Orleans in Louisiana, Nashville and Memphis in TN, etc, etc.
As for sports, I think we will be fine in the fall. They may restrict the number of people in the stadiums but I doubt they even do that due to the $. Football is king and will be fine.
Cuomo put out NY state's antibody testing last week, which suggested that about 2.7 mil had been infected to that point...which would have put the mortality rate at .3 of one percent (.3% or .003). Yet I still see many outlets and talking heads trying to push the mortality rate as the deaths per number of 'tested' cases. Which has never been close to an accurate measure but always gives a higher 'scare' number. That mortality rate is no different from H1N1 in 09, and possibly better, yet not one person was running around acting like we needed to do these things then. That virus also disproportionately impacted younger people. And now there are a few pockets of doctors here and there suggesting that they are feeling some pressure to classify things as COVID even if they aren't sure because hospitals are in bad financial situations since they haven't had the patient numbers these ridiculous models predicted, so they need the insurance revenue that has been promised for COVID patients....those patients command more money in the insurance systems apparently.
I say all of this as a person that would be classified as someone with an existing lung condition that makes me more likely to have respiratory infections go into pneumonia, pleurisy, etc. So I'm at a higher risk than average joe. I get there was an initial reaction because there was so much unknown, but the more data that comes out it doesn't appear that it's much different than other things we have seen from a fatality standpoint. It does appear to spread quickly although it looks as though this was spreading before anybody really knew about it so it's difficult to tell how quickly. That's not a bad thing, it means it isn't having the level of impact that was originally feared. We started the shut down to help stop the hospital overflows and they never came, even in NYC. It does appear to be very contagious and because of that, staying locked in does not solve any issues long-term. The more we stay in, as a society, the more unprepared our immune systems will be when we come out and the truth is that this thing is going to be around some and the long-term solution isn't going to be to do what we've done nationwide during this period. It's neither realistic nor practical to continue it. If the mortality rates were more like Ebola was with the contagiousness of this virus, then it would be understandable to continue looking at some drastic measures.
I am not arguing against proceeding with caution. However, the standard being applied to this isn't applied to anything else we deal with. Such a broad brushed approach. One death is too many? Yes, it is. But isn't having nearly 100k alcohol related deaths a year too many? We still sell alcohol and Beshear and others even approved it as an essential business during this time even though it is an immune system suppressor which would make one more susceptible to the virus. But you can't cross a state line because that is a problem? That makes sense? Many things that have been done by the 'lockdown is a must' crowd doesn't logically make sense. Send students home to be around older people, who are more susceptible with weakened immune systems? Ok. Tell everybody to stay in when data shows outdoor spread is nearly non-existent and this is predominantly spread indoors? Ok. Limit businesses to just a handful where you're sending people to the same few stores indoors everyday to pass it around? Ok. I don't blame anyone for initial reactions to unknowns but at this point there is a group that is still hanging onto the limited information we had in the first couple of weeks instead of incorporating the information from the last few weeks as it has played out. The absurdly wrong model numbers from early on even included social distancing procedures factored in and they weren't even close. This should be handled on a community basis at this point. If there is a problem at a particular location or city, then they may need to do something. But the data starting to come out at this point in regards to likely real infection rate and lack of hospital issues, etc...doesn't point to continuing draconian measures.
As has been pointed out Beshear was far ahead of most governors in handling the threat. Hell I even got phone calls from my republican family in Michigan speaking highly of Beshear. That goes to prove it could have been handled much better all across the country. It would have been even better here in Kentucky if more people took it seriously and did as asked by Beshear to handle the virus. It's almost like people still don't grasp that flattening the curve has nothing to do with the number of deaths per se and everything to do with not overwhelming medical institutions to the point of exhausting all ability to help people who are infected. It is for the most part a maneuver to slow the spread and to buy scientists time to develop some means of treating this virus.
A few points to consider:
1) There is a question of thousands of deaths caused by this virus that are/were officially un-attributed. They just recently found trucks full of bodies of unknown origin.
2) There is little data to date on how much medical attention has been diverted away because of this fast spreading contagion, causing a rise in deaths un-attributed to the virus but linked just the same.
3) Alcohol may be a habit forming substance but it is a matter of choice to imbibe unlike a virus.
4) H1N1 has/had a treatment, Covid-19 does not.
5) The "Hot Spots" for the transmission of the virus presently are the meat processing plants that are still being allowed to process as well as transmit.
1) Understood. There is also some possibility the number is overstated because if COVID is involved it is listed as the reason, whether it was or not.
3) People that are hit by drunk drivers or are abused by those that are influenced by it do not make that choice. I'll also make clear I'm not making that point to support not selling alcohol. Just the inconsistent thinking.
4) There is no guarantee we will have any vaccine, etc. ever. HIV does not, flu does and yet we still can have 30-60k a year die from flu.
You seem to be similar to a reasonable person, something in very short supply here, so I'll not argue tit for tat with you, especially about "inconsistent thinking". LOL So I'll leave you with this. I'm not navigating my thinking with bromides from politicians or unknown folk visiting talk boards on the internet. I'll trust scientists, doctors, and epidemiologists who are far more and far better educated on the matter and almost as easy to find. Trying to push a business, political, or worse entertainment agenda rather than following the suggestions of those particular experts reeks of self-indulgent mish mash to me.
If you're not concerned by 1M+ cases and 60,000 deaths, now roughly 2,500 PER DAY, in about 2 months nor recognize the seriousness of same....I don't know what it will take to get your attention.
I think we're all concerned. That's not the issue. The issue is whether the steps we've taken and continue to take are ultimately effective. Sweden expects to be at the point of 'herd immunity' in the next 2-3 weeks BECAUSE they didn't shut everything down. They did concentrate on the most at-risk populations, practice social distancing, etc. Didn't close schools, restaurants, etc. To a lesser extent, the state of Florida with the 2nd highest concentration of senior citizens in the nation did many of the same things as Sweden and is experiencing many fewer problems than other states (with fewer people and lesser density than Florida). Certainly, at some point during this strategy implementation, there will be/is/has been a point of diminishing return, where the economic and social costs outweigh the presumed additional loss of lives. I, for one, heard Cuomo's comment about 'whatever the cost, if it saves one life, it's worth it' as one of the more moronic statements I've heard during this situation.
The other thing to consider is that total shutdown most likely, in the short term at least, prevented deaths from COVID. But, what is still to be determined is how many additional deaths did isolation lead to/cause due to heightened alcoholism, ignoring checkups/testing for other health problems, spouse/child abuse, suicide, patients opting to stop taking critical medication because it suppressed their immune system, etc. We'll probably never know that number, TBH. But, to assume that this strategy has not had other unintended consequences is very short-sighted. I have an ER doctor client who told me this week that hospitals receive more federal funds for COVID patients and, therefore, they have an incentive to cite the virus for every patient. And this client told me he knows the hospital he works for is doing this because he's on the committee to determine how to code things during this crisis.
Finally, here in Denver, my local tennis club is set to open indoor and outdoor courts on May 9. Even when playing outdoors where the data suggests the chance of infection is miniscule compared to being exposed indoors, all players MUST WEAR A MASK AT ALL TIMES, along with other restrictions. If you don't think that seems hysterically over-cautious, then I don't know what to say, either. Here's a suggestion, if you think playing singles tennis outdoors is a high risk activity, then choose to not play. And let others choose differently.
So the life of which Cuomo speaks doesn't matter to you, your tennis game more important? All righty then.
Stock market-1
Grandma-0
It's slightly more complex than that, but, since you want to engage in soundbites, here's one for you, based on UN reports that the devastation to the world economy, caused by lockdowns, will ultimately result in a probable increase of up to 68 million children living in poverty and worldwide food shortages:
Facebook virtue signalers with "no skin in the game", who are not losing a dime from the catastrophic consequences of this shutdown: 1. (Out of curiosity, do you have any "skin in the game" here? Are you suddenly unable to provide for your small children, while your business is producing zero income here? I know quite a few in that very situation, both owners and employees).
Impoverished children all across the world: 0.
By the way, if "it only saves one life" is our standard for public policy, I submit that it's time to completely ban tobacco and alcohol, shutdown the airports, and reduce the Interstate speed limit to 15 mph and limit the use of the Interstates to emergency use only. If I had more time, I could come up with a thousand other proposals to save that life.
The Cult of Diversion is ramped up big time.
For the umpteenth time, alcoholism, tobacco, heart disease, obesity, diabetes, accidents including auto, murder of all description...are not CONTAGIOUS diseases. There are treatments/vaccines/meds/etc for these diseases. At this time there's NO treatment or CURE for COVID-2019. Hopefully something's on the way. But, 60,000+ deaths at 2,500 per day.....we all are going to die someday so that's OK, right?
For the umpteenth time, alcoholism, tobacco, heart disease, obesity, diabetes, accidents including auto, murder of all description...are not CONTAGIOUS diseases. There are treatments/vaccines/meds/etc for these diseases. At this time there's NO treatment or CURE for COVID-2019. Hopefully something's on the way. But, 60,000+ deaths at 2,500 per day.....we all are going to die someday so that's OK, right?
I don't think your point really addresses his, but to follow your logic, there are other contagious diseases that kill thousands of people every year in this country and we don't shut down society to try and prevent those deaths. Are those lives less important than those taken by COVID19? Are you suggesting that if no effective treatment can be found that we shut down society every year upon the return of this virus?
Across the country? Try New York. About 60% of the total deaths occurred there. Iowa, Oklahoma, Kansas and several other states have barely shut down and their doing ok. Georgia is way bigger than Kentucky and it's been barely impacted. Take New York out of the equation and this virus has been well controlled.
Many automobile accidents most certainly are "contagious" to the victim. All murders are "contagious" to the victim. Of course, we do have laws against murder, and against much activity that contributes to automobile accidents, but, again, if we use "save one life" standard, then, following that logic, it's time to ban cars and guns (as to that, I realize you would probably agree with that part). Of course we don't apply Cuomo's ludicrous argument to cars and guns. It's a ludicrous argument; a soundbite meaning nothing. As another pointed, we could easily save a lot more than "one life" by completely shutting down the nation every flu season. There actually are some credible arguments in support of a lockdown. Cuomo's was preposterous but it played well to the masses.
Arkansas and South Dakota, to name but two examples, are doing astonishingly better than Kentucky in per capita death rate. Arkansas had a minimal lockdown; South Dakota had less than that. Perhaps South Dakota is so sparsely populated that it is not a good comparison to Kentucky for this issue, but Arkansas? Why aren't bodies piling up on the streets of Little Rock? At last look, Arkansas had a considerable lower per capita death rate than Kentucky. So does Tennessee- with a later lockdown, an early opening, and a higher per capita of residents living in larger metro areas.
Shut down every year? We'll find out soon enough. 1M+ cases, 60,000+ deaths including 2,500 per/day. Ignore and divert away.
I didn't ignore and divert. I addressed it head on. You ignored and diverted from my questions. They were very straightforward and used your own comments. Why are the lives of those taken by COVID19 more important than those taken by other contagious diseases? You are the one who used contagious disease as a distinguishing criteria. If it could save lives, why aren't we shutting down society when other contagious diseases spread across our landscape?
You also didn't address what we should do if an effective treatment can't be found and the virus returns annually. What would you propose we do?
The impact on the economy is going to far outweigh the health impact. Each individual will need to make decisions based on personal considerations moving forward.
It is a virus that will run its course as all others do. It’s a sad reality that people are loosing their lives.
Lots of businesses will never recover from these forced shutdowns.
The health care systems haven’t been and will not be over run with patients.
I am a health care employee and currently work in a large facility that has been halted In anticipation of the peak that didn’t occur.
It’s time to return to being America...consequences be what they will.
It is a virus that will run its course as all others do. It’s a sad reality that people are loosing their lives.
Lots of businesses will never recover from these forced shutdowns.
The health care systems haven’t been and will not be over run with patients.
I am a health care employee and currently work in a large facility that has been halted In anticipation of the peak that didn’t occur.
It’s time to return to being America...consequences be what they will.
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Please name me one contagious disease that kills 2500 per day, 60,000+ in 2 months.
As to what would we do if no treatment can be found...we'll soon find out although I'm hopeful science will bring a vaccine and treatment.
If no treatment can be found, and if the virus doesn't decrease its impact (which is certainly possible), then there will be many more deaths. But anyone who envisions a lockdown until a vaccine is found is delusional.
And you will never have a cure for any virus. You can develop vaccines to help prevent and lesson the affects of viruses and develop anti-viral drugs, like Tamiflu for influenza, to lesson the severity of the virus attack.
Right now there are several treatments for covid-19, the most well known being the hydroxychloroquine/azithromycin cocktail and Remdesivir a broad-spectrum antiviral that has shown to work on covid-19. There are several other lesser known treatments available as well and there are vaccines already in trial studies. Most of the deaths you are seeing are because of underlying medical conditions, not just from the covid-19 virus itself. The virus just exacerbates the underlying conditions causing the death, just like any virus is capable of doing just like the flu does every year. Of course there are some deaths that no known underlying condition was known to exist, but those are far and few between.
Covid-19 is a coronavirus just like the Sars virus that was a big scare a few years ago, which they didn't go to the extremes like they are with covid-19. It ran it's course, the public built up antibodies, and it pretty much burned itself out.
LOL There are some very simple minded people who post here like they really have some great insight. It's almost like they are saying; "Well I'm not sick so I don't see what all the fuss is about." or even better "The virus ain't so bad where there are fewer people." I almost feel bad laughing at their ignorance. They can't even comprehend it is a 9/11 event every three days. But they do not see the problem. They don't understand New York is not only the most visited city in America, it is the most visited city by foreigners. They even know more than the people who have studied epidemiology most of their lives. That's what is known as vanity. Of course these people knew what they were talking about when they believed it was just 15 people and we got it under control.
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Your kind of shifting goal posts. Now you seem to be suggesting that 60,000 deaths in two months is the criteria. Why is 60,000 deaths over 4 months acceptable for other contagious diseases? You are arbitrarily drawing a line in terms of deaths that are significant. Why is the COVID19 level significant but the flu level of deaths are not significant? What is the cutoff line in terms of deaths that make them significant? Quoting deaths is really diverting from the question. Where do you draw the line and why?
Saying we will soon find out about what we will do if a treatment isn't found, is also diverting from the question. What would you propose be done if that happens?
Didn't say it was, there are several experts saying covid-19 might follow the same pattern as similar coronavirus have taken, like sars.
60,000+ deaths in 2 months is hardly shifting the goal posts, it is the goal post. Again, name me a contagious disease that takes 2,500 lives a month.
This has nothing to do with the flu, that's just an attempt to confuse the issue.
I don't have an answer on what to do, sure as hell wouldn't be here if I did. Besides...we have a "stable genius" working on that as we speak.
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