Anyone here into alternate history? How about these UK history "What If..."'s

[bucsrule8872]

I’ve thought a lot about the 1988 scenario.

What would have happened if Sutton had been the coach heading into the 90’s.

He was a pretty good coach and was bringing in tremendous talent.

Can you imagine if Chapman stuck around until his Senior year, with Kemp coming in and Manuel and Mills? Throw in Ellis and Sean Sutton. Then Hansen, Pelphrey, Miller, Woods, Feldhaus, and Farmer.

That team would have given UNLV a run for their money for the 1990 title, IMHO.

And the talent would have kept coming.

But on the downside, probably no Pitino, no Mashburn, and no Pope.

 

[bucsrule8872]

The Cal in 2008 scenario is interesting.

That probably means he brings Rose with him. Patterson still comes here.

Rose, Patterson, Bradley. Crawford, Meeks, and Jasper. We probably beat KU for the title, then have the season vacated.

Tyreke Evans probably comes in 2009 with Miller and Cal probably gets Scotty Hopson.

Evans, Meeks, Hopson, and Patterson would have been a solid core for that season.

 

[JC CATS]

Also, at one time Rupp was to be the coach of the Memphis Tams of the ABA but the team never materialized.

I vaguely remember that

 

[Estil]

Yes. Duke would've been seen as the all white, racist, team from the south. Just as Kentucky was.

I hope that's all been mostly debunked by now. Mostly... Like I said earlier it was just like that scene in the Nixon movie. Rupp realistically could NOT integrate his team, even though I've not a shadow of a doubt he would've. It wasn't him, it was the system (not the least of which the SEC did not want UK to become even more an Evil Empire than it already was). The system just would not LET him integrate.

 

[HagginHall1999]

This is my big what if. What if Pitino had played DA the whole game? He was perfectly healthy or he wouldn’t have been out there shooting those free throws. They said he was healthy the whole game. I will always wonder what would have been if Pitino had just played him like he wasn’t hurt.

I have always wondered how exactly D.A. was considered healthy. I think that was blown out of proportion. Was he healthy enough to walk out and shoot FT's? Yeah...but that is a helluva lot different than planting, cutting, jumping etc.

He tore his ACL on 1/19 and the FF was on 3/29. I'm no Dr but that doesn't even seem possible.

 

[littlecreek]

I have always wondered how exactly D.A. was considered healthy. I think that was blown out of proportion. Was he healthy enough to walk out and shoot FT's? Yeah...but that is a helluva lot different than planting, cutting, jumping etc.

He tore his ACL on 1/19 and the FF was on 3/29. I'm no Dr but that doesn't even seem possible.

At the time I heard that DA was actually practicing with the team. And the saying was during Pitino's time at Kentucky that the practices were a lot harder than the games.

 

[CaptainBoogerBuns]

I hope that's all been mostly debunked by now. Mostly... Like I said earlier it was just like that scene in the Nixon movie. Rupp realistically could NOT integrate his team, even though I've not a shadow of a doubt he would've. It wasn't him, it was the system (not the least of which the SEC did not want UK to become even more an Evil Empire than it already was). The system just would not LET him integrate.

Yet our football team was the first in the SEC to integrate in 1965.

 

[megablue]

You know on YouTube there's this alternatehistoryhub channel that uses those adorable distinctive eh, people/dolls to tell how history could've turned out different? Well I present to you some What If's below to try to determine what could've been (try to keep it realisticish of course)

* 2008 -- What if John Calipari had been chosen over Billy Gillespie at this point (John was in serious contention for the job at this point too). And would BCG had been more successful in both coaching/personal life without taking the UK job?

* 2005 -- What if Tubby Smith won that 2OT Michigan State game and made the Final Four? Since that would've eliminated Tubby critics top greviance (no FF's since the 1998 title), could Tubby had stayed longer and in better graces with BBN?

* 1997 -- What if Rick Pitino did not take the Celtics job and stayed in KY?

* 1993 -- What if UK had beat the "Fake Five" in the OT game to make the title game? Would we have had a good shot at beating North Carolina?

* 1992 -- What if the infamous Christian Latner shot missed and the Unforgettables made the FF? Would they be even more beloved? Or perhaps less?

* 1989 -- What if the "Unforgettables" also left Kentucky in the wake of the "Kentucky's Shame" scandal?

* 1989 -- What if Kentucky was hit with the death penalty (no season at all) for 1990 and/or 1991?

* 1988 -- What if the $1000 envelope was no discovered and the "Kentucky's Shame" scandal was not discovered?

* 1978 -- What if Joe B Hall did not win the championship that year?

* 1970 -- What if Mike Casey did not get injured?

* 1966 -- What if the Rupp's Runts did win the title? How would both they and TexWes be remembered?

* 1930 -- What if John Maier got the raise/contract package he wanted and stayed at UK (and thus Rupp did not become coach in 1931...or perhaps ever)?

Of course you don't need to answer all these; just one or two is fine...again, try to keep the possiblities realistic...for example, don't say "What if BGC made the Final Four in 2008?"

The biggest is what if Wes Unseld would’ve signed with Kentucky ??

 

[FurdTerguson]

Biggest what if was Ralph Sampson. Kentucky probably wins at least one title between 1980-83. And in so doing, takes one away from either Louisville, Indiana or North Carolina.

 

[ArtLaibsGhost]

If zDirk Minniefild had hit a wide open layup near the end of game against UL in NCAA would that team have won it all. If John Wooden hadn't announced retirement shortly before Title Game would UK have beat them in the 70s. If Jamal Mashburn doesn't foul out would Christian Laettner have even caught the ball, Does that team win it all. If Dale Beown doesn't dive into a table after a loose ball and injuring his shoulder and coming out when he was red hot would we have beaten the Fab 5 in overtime and gone on to a title. I could name several others but it fun speculating

 

[Estil]

If Dale Beown doesn't dive into a table after a loose ball and injuring his shoulder and coming out when he was red hot would we have beaten the Fab 5 in overtime and gone on to a title. I could name several others but it fun speculating

You know as Pitino once said in Boston, that '48 Fab Five would've been really gray and old by then (wasn't at least one dead by 1993?)! You know, the REAL Fab Five?

 

[Bogansback2Basil]

The two that I would change if I could would be 1966 and 1970. History writers say it was a race game. Funny in 1966 nobody called it that. 2nd, no historians talk about the leader, Larry Conley, being terribly sick and playing with a 100° temperature and if they had played 10 times that TWC would have maybe won 1 game. Remember, the night before 99.9% of America thought that the UK-Duke game was for the National championship, Had they had the current day off format…

The 1970 championship it may be even more painful.

Before the terrible car accident on the I 64 ramp at Shelbyville that shattered my Casey’s leg there’s no way that anyone including UCLA people would have thought that UK would not win the 1970 championship. Casey was undoubtedly the most complete basketball player in my lifetime. While coach Rupp would never name. his all-time five or his all-time best player, when I ask if he had his first pick to start a team, who would it be he replied Mike Casey.

As good as the committee of Terry Mills, Jimmie Dinwiddie, Stan Key, and Kent Hollenbeck proved to be, none of them made up for the loss of Mike Casey, I will never believe if #34 had been healthy that UK would not have been champion in 1970.

If Pitino had not gone to the Celtics, UK would have passed UCLA in all time championships.

clevenger32, I always appreciate your perspective given you were there. A couple of comments...

The '69-'70 team was the first team I truly followed and started a scrapbook from the Herald and the Leader papers. Like so many here who followed that team and believe Issel's fifth foul against Jacksonville was pathetic, it wouldn't have mattered as much if in fact Mike Casey had been able to play. Yes, Gilmore and Burrows would have still been a handful, but I believe Casey would have been another animal they would have had a difficult time with. Heck, so would have the entire country and Rupp might have had an undefeated year as I doubt Vandy would have pulled off that upset in Nashville. Against Jacksonville, it was Rupp's first game where he called all time-outs and four starters fouled out in nearly 40 years of coaching. Tough day for the good guys for sure.

In another thread, I referenced a book that John McGill wrote. He interviewed coach Rupp on numerous occassions. Though Rupp was offered money several times to write a book and announce his all-time team, he refused to do that because as he put it "I can only satisfy five and hurt the feelings of all the rest and I just don't want to do that because I'm so grateful to all these boys." In 1972, during his final year as a coach McGill said that he asked Rupp a "most important question...if you had to name just one player to build a complete team around, who would it be?" Rupp's answer, "that would have to be Dan Issel." Over the next few years, McGill kept at him and in 1976 before Rupp passed, he got just about what he asked for. Published by Jim Host in 1978, here is the team Rupp put together...

Aggie Sale - Big Boy Edwards - Kenny Rollins - Wah Wah Jones - Ralph Beard - Alex Groza - Frank Ramsey - Cliff Hagan - Bill Spivey - Larry Conley - Dan Issel - ______________. He purposely left the 12th man open. He said "just leave the space open. Tell the fans to insert any name they want and that will be fine with me. If I decide to complete the squad in my own mind nobody will know who the last boy was." It was not too long before he was diagnosed with spinal cancer which led to his death a few minutes before UK beat his alma mater, KU in Lawrence, 12/10/77.

 

[clevenger32]

clevenger32, I always appreciate your perspective given you were there. A couple of comments...

The '69-'70 team was the first team I truly followed and started a scrapbook from the Herald and the Leader papers. Like so many here who followed that team and believe Issel's fifth foul against Jacksonville was pathetic, it wouldn't have mattered as much if in fact Mike Casey had been able to play. Yes, Gilmore and Burrows would have still been a handful, but I believe Casey would have been another animal they would have had a difficult time with. Heck, so would have the entire country and Rupp might have had an undefeated year as I doubt Vandy would have pulled off that upset in Nashville. Against Jacksonville, it was Rupp's first game where he called all time-outs and four starters fouled out in nearly 40 years of coaching. Tough day for the good guys for sure.

In another thread, I referenced a book that John McGill wrote. He interviewed coach Rupp on numerous occassions. Though Rupp was offered money several times to write a book and announce his all-time team, he refused to do that because as he put it "I can only satisfy five and hurt the feelings of all the rest and I just don't want to do that because I'm so grateful to all these boys." In 1972, during his final year as a coach McGill said that he asked Rupp a "most important question...if you had to name just one player to build a complete team around, who would it be?" Rupp's answer, "that would have to be Dan Issel." Over the next few years, McGill kept at him and in 1976 before Rupp passed, he got just about what he asked for. Published by Jim Host in 1978, here is the team Rupp put together...

Aggie Sale - Big Boy Edwards - Kenny Rollins - Wah Wah Jones - Ralph Beard - Alex Groza - Frank Ramsey - Cliff Hagan - Bill Spivey - Larry Conley - Dan Issel - ______________. He purposely left the 12th man open. He said "just leave the space open. Tell the fans to insert any name they want and that will be fine with me. If I decide to complete the squad in my own mind nobody will know who the last boy was." It was not too long before he was diagnosed with spinal cancer which led to his death a few minutes before UK beat his alma mater, KU in Lawrence, 12/10/77.

I remember Mr. McGill as well as reading both papers. I didn’t remember, and I am not doubting you, about the Issel comment but I remember Coach Rupp talking about if they needed a stop, needed a steal, needed a last shot, he wanted Casey. Nothing against Horse but had Casey not have gotten hurt I am not so sure he’d had statistically the senior year he had. Casey was the best complete player of that group and frankly I don’t think we have had as complete player since. Reed Sheppard was probably the closest but he is no #34 in my opinion.

 

[megablue]

What if UK didn't miss almost every shot in 1984 in the second half against Georgetown?

3-33 in second half

 

[AfterschoolBBN1]

I've never quite figured out how Bogans' injury caused Robert Jackson to go off on inside to the tune of 24 points and 15 rebounds.

You can say what you want, but Keith Bogans had a high ankle sprain and played in a game two days later. It was 5 on 4 defensively.

And that game actually got closer than what some say. Antoine Barber had a fifty fifty block charge call and one with about 8 minutes to go that I believe would have cut it down to 7 or 8. So….I think a healthy Bogans could have closed that gap.

Betting on the game with a healthy Bogans, I’m still probably taking Marquette. But, I could see UK winning that game with a healthy squad. They were tight

 

[FurdTerguson]

A better 2003 What If would be What if Tubby's teams didn't insist on spotting the other team a big lead every tournament game? Even in 1998.

 

[WeWant9]

I sometimes wonder what would have happened if UK won it all in 14. It would have capped off an amazing tournament run, UK would have #9, Cal would’ve got his second title and probably gone to coach Lebron in Cleveland. We all avoid the heartbreak of 2015, and today probably looks a lot different; not sure who’d become the coach if Cal left after 14.

 

[FurdTerguson]

I sometimes wonder what would have happened if UK won it all in 14. It would have capped off an amazing tournament run, UK would have #9, Cal would’ve got his second title and probably gone to coach Lebron in Cleveland. We all avoid the heartbreak of 2015, and today probably looks a lot different; not sure who’d become the coach if Cal left after 14.

Scott Drew

 

[TucsonCat]

You know as Pitino once said in Boston, that '48 Fab Five would've been really gray and old by then (wasn't at least one dead by 1993?)! You know, the REAL Fab Five?

No. Michigan was the original Fab Five.
1948 Kentucky was the Fabulous Five.

 

[Estil]

No. Michigan was the original Fab Five.
1948 Kentucky was the Fabulous Five.

Fab Five for short. And Michigan was just a bunch of cheating plagiarists who STOLE our nickname and our 1993 title shot!!

 

[FurdTerguson]

I call Michigan The Fecal Five

 

[JC CATS]

I have always wondered how exactly D.A. was considered healthy. I think that was blown out of proportion. Was he healthy enough to walk out and shoot FT's? Yeah...but that is a helluva lot different than planting, cutting, jumping etc.

He tore his ACL on 1/19 and the FF was on 3/29. I'm no Dr but that doesn't even seem possible.

He could have used a wheelchair, not great for rebounding, but boxing out...