Addressing the "8 titles in 100 years fallacy" some of you keep using.

[ftp000]

We're a 2 seed with a good draw, and this is what you dopes are using your limited brain power on!? Not one of you with the integrity to do what you should do. Instead of holding your breath like spoiled children, leave. Refuse to be a fan until you get your way. The rest of the sports world laughs at you idiots. Y'all are crippled too high for crutches.
Hater math......I've seen it all now

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

We're a 2 seed with a good draw, and this is what you dopes are using your limited brain power on!? Not one of you with the integrity to do what you should do. Instead of holding your breath like spoiled children, leave. Refuse to be a fan until you get your way. The rest of the sports world laughs at you idiots. Y'all are crippled too high for crutches.
Hater math......I've seen it all now

This reads like something Fred Flinstone would write while he's high on a rolled-up mixture of peyote and dinosaur droppings.

 

[azurricat2010]

You can call it a complaint if you’d like, I’m going to call it a fact. It’s the longest we’ve ever gone without a one seed. You can extrapolate whatever opinion out of that statistical fact that you would like. That seed average also doesn’t account for having the literal worst year in Kentucky basketball history in the post 2015 span. That has to be accounted for somehow, it can’t just be thrown out. You're essentially "rating" the 2013 season and the 2021 season the same which isn't accurate at all. The "seed average" would be worse if we were good enough to get a 9 seed than it is since we were 9-16. That's a pretty drastic flaw. You have to account for 9-16 somehow.

You're correct, it's a fact we haven't had a 1 seed in the past 7 years but I'm saying the "drop off" post-2015 isn't nearly as dramatic as certain posters want people to believe. More so referring to the people that only show their head when we lose.

The 2020-2021 year was likely an outlier and likely why "1 and done" teams struggled. The fact UK reverted back to what they've essentially been doing the past 10 years has shown that.

 

[STL_Cat]

You're correct, it's a fact we haven't had a 1 seed in the past 7 years but I'm saying the "drop off" post-2015 isn't nearly as dramatic as certain posters want people to believe. More so referring to the people that only show their head when we lose.

The 2020-2021 year was likely an outlier and likely why "1 and done" teams struggled. The fact UK reverted back to what they've essentially been doing the past 10 years has shown that.

Well I do agree that it seems to be a pretty major outlier, but I still think it has to be accounted for somehow.

I’m happy with our seed and our draw this year, no doubt.

 

[ftp000]

This reads like something Fred Flinstone would write while he's high on a rolled-up mixture of peyote and dinosaur droppings.

And still smarter than the hater homework drivel you posted.

 

[blue woman]

for any coach associated with men's UK basketball, the primary priority with nothing else close, relative to sports---should be UK basketball. Winning ncaa TITLES.

sadly--the present entity in charge as openly stated nba draft picks are HIS priority #1. Helping younguns reach their dreams of making the nba are his primary agenda.

to be paid $8million or $10million a year and NOT have winning titles the #1 priority is a disgrace. At no other "job" for a major corporation would a ceo be allowed to make such a ridiculous claim--and keep the job!!

"Oh, I just want to provide benefits for those less fortunate and our profits may get tanked, but it will feel so good to help others."

"Oh, I understand there is not equity in this country, so sales and profits may plummet, but we will provide hope and possibilities for others".

"Oh, our country is nice, but showing disrespect for our anthem and flag demonstrates concern for others"

"My greatest achievement is getting my employees better jobs elsewhere"

UK must be priority 1---

rr

 

[azurricat2010]

for any coach associated with men's UK basketball, the primary priority with nothing else close, relative to sports---should be UK basketball. Winning ncaa TITLES.

sadly--the present entity in charge as openly stated nba draft picks are HIS priority #1. Helping younguns reach their dreams of making the nba are his primary agenda.

to be paid $8million or $10million a year and NOT have winning titles the #1 priority is a disgrace. At no other "job" for a major corporation would a ceo be allowed to make such a ridiculous claim--and keep the job!!

"Oh, I just want to provide benefits for those less fortunate and our profits may get tanked, but it will feel so good to help others."

"Oh, I understand there is not equity in this country, so sales and profits may plummet, but we will provide hope and possibilities for others".

"Oh, our country is nice, but showing disrespect for our anthem and flag demonstrates concern for others"

"My greatest achievement is getting my employees better jobs elsewhere"

UK must be priority 1---

rr

Tell that to the FAANG companies where some employees leave and form their own businesses utilizing the experience they gained at the FAANG companies. Like the aforementioned FAANG companies, UK will excel even if players depart for the pros.

You treat it as a zero-sum game when it's really not.

 

[kybassfan]

I never said they were leaving, Einstein. You are the master of assuming statements not in evidence.

By the way, I noticed that you left out Sharpe. Any reason for that? According to YOUR OWN LOGIC, you should have put his name on the list. Oops.

You should be careful using logic in a sentence. It’s a little perverse. Kinda like Pee Wee Herman going to the movies.

 

[ukcatz12]

The NCAA tournament began in 1939. Between 1939 and 1998, UK won 7 national titles. That's 7 titles in 59 years, or one every 8.4 years. Between 1948 and 1998, UK's title to year ration was one title for every 7.1 years. If you remove the probation/forfeit years, it's actually one title every 6.7 years.

Between 1939 and 2012, UK won 8 titles, or one title every 9.1 years (8.6 years if you remove probation years or the 1954 season).

This is a misuse of statistics. You can't just bookend your random timeframe with titles, or end your time frame the exact year we won a title because it artificially brings down the average.

If you chose 1939-2011 right before we won in 2012 the average would have been every 10.3 years. If we did this exercise back in 1995 the average would have been 11.2 years. In 1997 it was 9.5 years. In 1999 it was 8.6 years. The average is going to fluctuate over time because winning a title is not something that happens at a great enough frequency for the average years between titles to mean anything.

We can manipulate the time frames all we want, but counting on a title exactly according to any average we choose is a fools errand. Every program's titles come in bunches and they're not evenly spaced out over time.

 

[blue woman]

averages or not--the only ncaa title with the present head coach was 2012---1 title in 11 chances. no final four since 2015.

As with any big company--what have you done LATELY?

rr

 

[ftp000]

averages or not--the only ncaa title with the present head coach was 2012---1 title in 11 chances. no final four since 2015.

As with any big company--what have you done LATELY?

rr

Some more spoiled participation trophy child logic.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

And still smarter than the hater homework drivel you posted.

Yabba dabba doo.

 

[Blue63Madison]

Mitch tells a much different story. On one hand there is a bratty fanbase. On the other hand there is the actual administration that makes the calls. Guess which one matters.

They both matter. When you talk about the bratty fanbase, remember a lot of those bratty fans have very deep pockets. They matter. A lot.

 

[azurricat2010]

Yabba dabba doo.

This reminded me to take my vitamins for the day. Pavlov strikes again.

 

[KYFOSSIL]

By trying to contradict the point that the program has established precedent and thereby expectations to maintain precedent, they severely attempt to lower those expectations and devalue an established tradition that predates many of their own existences.

Some of them are just contrarians who seek to go against any perspective that flourishes outside of the bubbling caldron of soupy nihilism that they sip from nightly.

You calling someone a contrarian is pretty hypocritical. You have consistently tried to put this team and coach in a bad light. This thread has valid points but why start it as we are focusing on the upcoming tourney?

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

Sad part is Sutton, Tubby , and BCG combined never had the talent that Calipari has wasted here over the years!

Duke should've fired coach k the year he had zion, reddish, and Barrett. Oh and tre Jones and Bolden.
Or maybe after the 99 duke season...take a look at that roster.

That's how this works right?

 

[LowCountryCat]

And still smarter than the hater homework drivel you posted.

No, actually he made good points, just because you can't understand rudimentary math you're lashing out like a toddler throwing a tantrum.

 

[LowCountryCat]

Some more spoiled participation trophy child logic.

Spoken like a casual, complacent fan.

 

[LowCountryCat]

You calling someone a contrarian is pretty hypocritical. You have consistently tried to put this team and coach in a bad light. This thread has valid points but why start it as we are focusing on the upcoming tourney?

Who's focusing, exactly? Are you running practice? Are you handing out towels during individual instruction? Are you a coach? Get off your high horse, this is a discussion forum and there isn't much to talk about until Thursday, and this actually has been a sticking point in a lot of discussions and bears fleshing out. If you don't like the topic, then why are you posting in the thread? "Why start it?" Right back at you - Why respond to it?

 

[LowCountryCat]

Duke should've fired coach k the year he had zion, reddish, and Barrett. Oh and tre Jones and Bolden.
Or maybe after the 99 duke season...take a look at that roster.

That's how this works right?

How many titles does K have?

Even the staunchest hater would be silent if Cal were sitting on a mere TWO titles.

 

[KYFOSSIL]

Who's focusing, exactly? Are you running practice? Are you handing out towels during individual instruction? Are you a coach? Get off your high horse, this is a discussion forum and there isn't much to talk about until Thursday, and this actually has been a sticking point in a lot of discussions and bears fleshing out. If you don't like the topic, then why are you posting in the thread? "Why start it?" Right back at you - Why respond to it?

I wasn’t talking to you prick so there’s that. Discussion is one thing prior to a tourney but Saul you and others just flood the board with pessimism with a tourney comin up. You are one of the single most arrogant jerks here so you got no room to talk about anyones high horse

 

[ftp000]

No, actually he made good points, just because you can't understand rudimentary math you're lashing out like a toddler throwing a tantrum.

You got it wrong, as usual. It's you Cal haters who are the entitled children. Life's too hard for you when you don't get your participation trophy. If you think anybody making an argument to get rid of Cal is making a good point, you fit the image of "those stupid Kentucky fans" the rest of the country points and laughs at. You are so hilariously sports stupid people are laughing at you! And you can't see it because of your blind hate. And you, you're one of the worst, you have zero integrity. You join the pitchfork morons after any loss, but come to celebrate when we win. Your every post is a sad waste of bandwidth.

 

[LowCountryCat]

You got it wrong, as usual. It's you Cal haters who are the entitled children. Life's too hard for you when you don't get your participation trophy. If you think anybody making an argument to get rid of Cal is making a good point, you fit the image of "those stupid Kentucky fans" the rest of the country points and laughs at. You are so hilariously sports stupid people are laughing at you! And you can't see it because of your blind hate. And you, you're one of the worst, you have zero integrity. You join the pitchfork morons after any loss, but come to celebrate when we win. Your every post is a sad waste of bandwidth.

You're quick with the insults but you still can't answer the math other than to obliquely and irrationally attack the poster. Weak, bro. YOU. CAN'T. REFUTE. THE. MATH.

 

[KYFOSSIL]

You got it wrong, as usual. It's you Cal haters who are the entitled children. Life's too hard for you when you don't get your participation trophy. If you think anybody making an argument to get rid of Cal is making a good point, you fit the image of "those stupid Kentucky fans" the rest of the country points and laughs at. You are so hilariously sports stupid people are laughing at you! And you can't see it because of your blind hate. And you, you're one of the worst, you have zero integrity. You join the pitchfork morons after any loss, but come to celebrate when we win. Your every post is a sad waste of bandwidth.

Absolutely. They keep bring up stats and so called data that has nothing to do with the upcoming tourney

 

[LowCountryCat]

I wasn’t talking to you prick so there’s that. Discussion is one thing prior to a tourney but Saul you and others just flood the board with pessimism with a tourney comin up. You are one of the single most arrogant jerks here so you got no room to talk about anyones high horse

Awwwww...you got your feefees hurt so you called me a name? You sure can dish it out but you can't take it. Thin skinned. I love how you just resort to telling people to shut up. That's 3rd grade stuff and I'm probably insulting 3rd graders.

 

[LowCountryCat]

Absolutely. They keep bring up stats and so called data that has nothing to do with the upcoming tourney

Odd that you Cal lovers take this so personally. You must reeeeeeally have a hard on for the guy.

 

[KYFOSSIL]

Odd that you Cal lovers take this so personally. You must reeeeeeally have a hard on for the guy.

Not a Cal lover at all. I’ve stated that when or lose this year he should probably move on. No but I’ve been on this forum long enough to hate how many of you focus on nothing but plashing players and coaches and do your best to minimize any positive results. And unlike you… I don’t have hard on for guys.

 

[KYFOSSIL]

Awwwww...you got your feefees hurt so you called me a name? You sure can dish it out but you can't take it. Thin skinned. I love how you just resort to telling people to shut up. That's 3rd grade stuff and I'm probably insulting 3rd graders.

You insult people constantly. It’s pretty obvious you can’t take it.

 

[LowCountryCat]

You insult people constantly. It’s pretty obvious you can’t take it.

You argue like a woman. "Constantly" LOL I didn't even call you a name.

 

[LowCountryCat]

Not a Cal lover at all. I’ve stated that when or lose this year he should probably move on. No but I’ve been on this forum long enough to hate how many of you focus on nothing but plashing players and coaches and do your best to minimize any positive results. And unlike you… I don’t have hard on for guys.

Ohhhh, the 'hyperliteral' response. Who are you, Drax? That's so weak, dude.

 

[ftp000]

You're quick with the insults but you still can't answer the math other than to obliquely and irrationally attack the poster. Weak, bro. YOU. CAN'T. REFUTE. THE. MATH.

Oh stop acting offended, you hit this board spoiling for a fight. The math is ridiculously selective, chosen just to prove his point. Compare our record to other Blue Bloods during Cals tenure, not past records of coaches in different era's. There's no accuracy to that, there is way more parity now. Duke and Kansas have been buying players during that time and still haven't outperformed us.
But don't act like we can't read your drivel, you open and close with insults.

 

[KYFOSSIL]

You argue like a woman. "Constantly" LOL I didn't even call you a name.

No you didn’t. You started an argument that had nothing to do with you so I’m pretty sure it’s you wearing the high heels

 

[KYFOSSIL]

Oh stop acting offended, you hit this board spoiling for a fight. The math is ridiculously selective, chosen just to prove his point. Compare our record to other Blue Bloods during Cals tenure, not past records of coaches in different era's. There's no accuracy to that, there is way more parity now. Duke and Kansas have been buying players during that time and still haven't outperformed us.
But don't act like we can't read your drivel, you open and close with insults.

He’s honestly a gutless wonder attention seeking whore. I’m putting him on ignore because what he writes is pure trash

 

[LowCountryCat]

Oh stop acting offended, you hit this board spoiling for a fight. The math is ridiculously selective, chosen just to prove his point. Compare our record to other Blue Bloods during Cals tenure, not past records of coaches in different era's. There's no accuracy to that, there is way more parity now. Duke and Kansas have been buying players during that time and still haven't outperformed us.
But don't act like we can't read your drivel, you open and close with insults.

You still can't refute it. LOL

 

[LowCountryCat]

He’s honestly a gutless wonder attention seeking whore. I’m putting him on ignore because what he writes is pure trash

BYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

 

[ftp000]

You still can't refute it. LOL

Wow, you really aren't particularly smart are you? I actually did, but you can't follow simple logic.

 

[ftp000]

You still can't refute it. LOL

And you can't deny that you're a two faced hypocrite.

 

[BBBLazing]

They say it every year after we flame out of the NCAA Tournament.

"We only have won 8 titles in 100 years."

This is fallacy, and it's an audacious fallacy at that because it is not correct historically.

The NCAA tournament began in 1939. Between 1939 and 1998, UK won 7 national titles. That's 7 titles in 59 years, or one every 8.4 years. Between 1948 and 1998, UK's title to year ration was one title for every 7.1 years. If you remove the probation/forfeit years, it's actually one title every 6.7 years.

Between 1939 and 2012, UK won 8 titles, or one title every 9.1 years (8.6 years if you remove probation years or the 1954 season).

So even at our worst, we're winning a national title every 9.1 years before 2013 ( or 8.8 years if you remove the probation/forfeited seasons).

We're coming up on that actual historical average right now, in fact. One title for every 9.1 years, and it's been ten years since our last title. Based on historical precedent, it's time for a title.

Factor in the reality that UK was on probation for two years during the Pitino Era, and refused to participate in the 1954 NCAA Tournament - a season where they were undefeated. Remove those three years from factoring into the title ratio, and between 1939 and 2012, UK averaged a title once every 8.8 years.

Historically, UK is averaging:

1. An Elite Eight every 2.1 years (or an Elite Eight every other year). Historically, finishing with an Elite Eight is expected every other year.
2. A Final Four every 4.7 years.
3. A National Title Game appearance every 6.6 years.
4. A National Title every 9.9 years (1939-2021 *counting the Covid year, the two probation years, and the forfeited tournament year).

***Also, some of our fans are quick to point out the "gaps" between titles, but they rarely point out what resulted from those gaps, which was this: multiple head coaching changes happened *because* of the gaps.

The gap between 1978 and 1996 saw *three* different head coaches (one was fired and one was pressured out).

The gap between 1998 and 2012 also saw *three* different head coaches (one was fired and one was pressured out).

These coaching changes came because the gaps were not acceptable by Kentucky's historical standards and norms.

All this is to say, we need to get our actual history correct when we're making arguments. The "8 titles in 100 years" is a weak fallacy.

Our historical standard of excellence is better than that.

so, since Cal has been here we have averaged (taking out 2020) but leaving in the NIT seasons and last year:
1. Elite 8 every 1.57 years.
2. Final 4 every 2.75 years.
3. National title game appearance every 5.5 years.
4. National championship every 11 years.

So, other than titles, which is close, Cal is exceeding historical averages. He may be even closer to that number if by Covid year you mean 2020 when there was not a tournament. If Cal wins a championship in the next 7 years, he will clearly surpass all of the standards you set out. See, I can make stats support my agenda as well.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

so, since Cal has been here we have averaged (taking out 2020) but leaving in the NIT seasons and last year:
1. Elite 8 every 1.57 years.
2. Final 4 every 2.75 years.
3. National title game appearance every 5.5 years.
4. National championship every 11 years.

So, other than titles, which is close, Cal is exceeding historical averages. He may be even closer to that number if by Covid year you mean 2020 when there was not a tournament. If Cal wins a championship in the next 7 years, he will clearly surpass all of the standards you set out. See, I can make stats support my agenda as well.

I'm not sure if you understand why I even created this thread.

I've stated I want to keep Calipari. This isn't a dichotomous choice.

I'm refuting the fallacious position that "we've won 8 titles in 100 years."

I'm also suggesting that Calipari, the program, and the fan base are due for another title, which we are.

 

[bcox13]

We have 3 in my lifetime and I'm 43. No amount of words changes how hard it is to win. Harder now than ever with the parity in college basketball

I'm not a great fan of Cal the coach. But I still think he's the guy for the program at this time.

Anytime someone take the time to lay out a post like this I ask the same thing; who do you prefer? If they parted ways after this season, which the success he has had here, who do you think is coming?