You Might Want to Sit Down For This One

[SLONER67]

I never said I didn't trust what Cal is doing. What I was saying is at this point in his tenure at UK, the results of putting guys into the NBA speak for itself. IMO, there is no need to say something like this at this point in time. When he first arrived and was trying to get the best players to come here...sure. But 6 years later, does he still need to say things like this? I don't think he does. Every big time high school basketball player knows Cal is the best at putting guys into the league. A majority of big time high school players that choose UK, come here because of that. The quickest path to the NBA. I'm ok with that. It's the day and age we live in right now with college basketball.

What I don't understand is the need to say something like this in this kind of venue. I just think getting guys drafted is pushed a little more in the public eye than it should be, that's all. It doesn't mean I don't like Cal, it doesn't mean I don't trust Cal, it just means that I think he can be just as successful in recruiting as he has been without continuously hammering this home. A comment like, "One of my goals this year was to get 8 guys drafted. I have no doubt that if I would have put these young men in the position for 8 of them to be drafted that we would be hanging another banner." would have been fine with me.

IMO, if a coach from a rival school said this, we'd be ripping his head off..."So and so only cares about himself, he doesn't care about his school". Again, don't get me disagreeing with what he said as not supporting Cal. I just think we could have the same success without having to say these things after results have proven themselves on the recruiting trail, on the court and in the NBA Draft.

Go Big Blue!

bthaunert:
I never said I didn't trust what Cal is doing.

SLONER: I'm don't recall saying you didn't trust Cal. I just said that I respectfully disagreed. And I "respectfully" disagreed because I thought (and still do) you were being respectful unlike some others who compare Cal supporters (I'm not saying you are not a Cal supporter) to defenders or followers of axe murderers.

I get what you're saying...I really do but I just can't bring myself (yet) to judge his tactics for recruiting. A lot of people want to slam him for his platooning this past year killing our recruiting this year. Well, it probably did hurt some but what else was Cal supposed to do? Was he supposed to insist on a 7 to 8 man rotation and let 2 or 3 others sit around like Willis? If he had done this, couldn't that have hurt our recruiting even more? Let's face it, nobody (including Cal) could have foreseen that WCS, Dakari and the Twins (along with Poythress and Lee) were going to come back one more year.

The only criticism I have for Cal (at this point) is that he could have blogged about how he wishes to never use platooning again a month or so sooner. I feel that could have been the difference in landing one or two of the huge misses we suffered this spring.

I agree that Cal probably didn't need to say what he said but if I were a potential 5-star one and done recruit...I may appreciate that sentiment. It's not like Cal has said this every year. He did after his first year and now. A message like that may be worth repeating every so many years just so it stays in the minds of these young players. Let's remember that it is exceptionally talented players coming here that keeps us in the conversation for a title year in and year out.

I'm sure you are not in agreement with the old Tubby and BCG recruiting philosophies. Let's stick with what is working. What Cal is doing is clearly working.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

I think it's reasonable to think that draft stock, NBA, etc. certainly plays a role indirectly in some, not all decisions given his constant references to the NBA, the draft, etc. He talks about those things a lot. It is a big part of how he has branded our program. His desire is for players to succeed & move on to NBA careers.
Doesn't seem that far fetched to me at all.

So, you think it's entirely reasonable to believe in that game, Cal rejected the idea of putting in Ulis because it might have hurt Andrew's draft status? This "indirectly" business is skirting the issue. I think it is far more likely that Cal knew that in 10 NCAA games, we were 9-1 with Andrew at the helm. Yeah, I'll go with that.

 

[3rex]

So, you think it's entirely reasonable to believe in that game, Cal rejected the idea of putting in Ulis because it might have hurt Andrew's draft status? This "indirectly" business is skirting the issue. I think it is far more likely that Cal knew that in 10 NCAA games, we were 9-1 with Andrew at the helm. Yeah, I'll go with that.

Certainly your prerogative. I have no problem with that.

 

[brianpoe]

Some of you guys... just wow.

Those of you that really believe Cal would risk a title by playing a kid over another one in the final minutes of a final four game.. even for you 3rex...

Couple of real trolls on this thread as well... welcome back

To the others upset.. why? You can't argue with the results unless you are into 3rex's conspiracy.


This what you sound like:


You own a car dealership.

Your only salesman is tasked with selling as many cars as possible.

The salesman tells customers he isn't concerned with how many cars he sells he cares more about customer service.

Customers dig that and many cars are sold than have been in the last 20 years.

You get mad and say

"The number of cars sold is the top priority stop saying that!"

"The dealership is greater than any salesman. It was here before him and will be after him!"

"I don't care about the outstanding production." But I expect it...


Silly isn't it?

 

[3rex]

Some of you guys... just wow.

Those of you that really believe Cal would risk a title by playing a kid over another one in the final minutes of a final four game.. even for you 3rex...

I certainly don't believe that Cal thought for a second that he was risking a title.

But that doesn't mean his in-game decisions couldn't have done so, or that said decisions couldn't be influenced, even a little bit, by his infatuation with all things NBA, NBA draft, and his ultimate goal of his players getting there.

 

[MWes11]

I don't think it is out of line to say that he puts the players above the university (Players First). He wants to do whatever it takes to ensure the player is fulfilling their dream of playing in the NBA, therefore putting the University itself second. Now, I am not saying he is jeopardizing our shot at a title, either. He recruits the best players, hoping to get every player to play their best and showcase their talents and get them drafted at the highest possible pick, hoping that is enough to bring us championships.

 

[Blueaz]

I certainly don't believe that Cal thought for a second that he was risking a title.

But that doesn't mean his in-game decisions couldn't have done so, or that said decisions couldn't be influenced, even a little bit, by his infatuation with all things NBA, NBA draft, and his ultimate goal of his players getting there.

Are you saying that in your opinion Cal. played Andrew to not hurt his draft status or possible help it?
or are you saying that this could be argued by those who dislike Cal's coaching or a rival of his?

 

[brianpoe]

I certainly don't believe that Cal thought for a second that he was risking a title.

But that doesn't mean his in-game decisions couldn't have done so, or that said decisions couldn't be influenced, even a little bit, by his infatuation with all things NBA, NBA draft, and his ultimate goal of his players getting there.

You really think the man subconsciously did that?

If we had won the title this year, Cal would have said the very same thing at Alltech just like he did and no one would say a word.

 

[3rex]

Are you saying that in your opinion Cal. played Andrew to not hurt his draft status or possible help it?
or are you saying that this could be argued by those who dislike Cal's coaching or a rival of his?

I'm saying that I think it could've played in to an aversion to pulling Andrew off the floor in final minutes the biggest game of the season, despite his inability to generate anything positive, even to the point of continually hurting us, on the offensive end of the floor.

 

[3rex]

You really think the man subconsciously did that?

If we had won the title this year, Cal would have said the very same thing at Alltech just like he did and no one would say a word.

I don't know, but yes, why would that be so far fetched? I mean, he platooned for similar reasons, right?

And by saying that, I don't mean it as a commentary on whether the platoon idea was good or bad.

 

[brianpoe]

I'm saying that I think it could've played in to an aversion to pulling Andrew off the floor in final minutes the biggest game of the season, despite his inability to generate anything positive, even to the point of continually hurting us, on the offensive end of the floor.

That is just BS. I do not disagree that in the last 5 minutes if Cal wanted to get the ball inside Ulis may have done better but he was getting killed on defense.

Andrew: 13 pts 4 Asst 1 steal 1 block 2 rebounds

from a pg is far from killing us

 

[3rex]

That is just BS. I do not disagree that in the last 5 minutes if Cal wanted to get the ball inside Ulis may have done better but he was getting killed on defense.

Andrew: 13 pts 4 Asst 1 steal 1 block 2 rebounds

from a pg is far from killing us

So he did that in the final minutes of the game? Because that's the period I referred to in my post.

 

[brianpoe]

So he did that in the final minutes of the game? Because that's the period I referred to in my post.

You put the final five minutes of the game on Andrew? He lost the game?

 

[JFCats22]

Cal not backing away from it (someone may want to tell him to pipe down a little)

John Calipari ‏@UKCoachCalipari
I hate to drive you traditionalists crazy, but I'll say it again: our goal at the beginning of the season was to have eight players drafted.

 

[3rex]

You put the final five minutes of the game on Andrew? He lost the game?

Wow this is getting way off track. I said he was hurting us, getting nothing done, in the final minutes of the game.

I never realized that was in dispute.

 

[MWes11]

Cal not backing away from it (someone may want to tell him to pipe down a little)

John Calipari ‏@UKCoachCalipari
I hate to drive you traditionalists crazy, but I'll say it again: our goal at the beginning of the season was to have eight players drafted.

haha oh boy. Let's continue the debate.

 

[JFCats22]

More from Cal -

John Calipari ‏@UKCoachCalipari 3m3 minutes ago
I'll be honest with you, at the time I may have said nine. My point when I said that was to have them all eat.

John Calipari ‏@UKCoachCalipari 2m2 minutes ago
When they asked how we do it, I told them to do this you will have to be a selfless team, share & do historic things on the court. They did.

 

[MWes11]

John Calipari ‏@UKCoachCalipari 3m3 minutes ago
I'll be honest with you, at the time I may have said nine. My point when I said that was to have them all eat.

You can take this tweet however you want. But I take it as Cal wanted to showcase their talents, all of them, at the jeopardy of bringing home 9. My guess is he thought our talent would trump all and bring home the ship. It didn't

He sure isn't backing away from what he said, and I wouldn't expect him to.

 

[3rex]

I don't really care about what he said, which is why I've had no comment on it.

But I will say this, the "traditionalists," who he seems to delight in calling out, where here long before he was, and will be here long after he leaves.

 

[WitnessGreatness]

@UKCoachCalipari: I hate to drive you traditionalists crazy, but I'll say it again: our goal at the beginning of the season was to have eight players drafted.

@UKCoachCalipari: I'll be honest with you, at the time I may have said nine. My point when I said that was to have them all eat.

@UKCoachCalipari: When they asked how we do it, I told them to do this you will have to be a selfless team, share & do historic things on the court. They did.

His whole point was for all of them to get drafted and eat as he said, they had to do historistic things on the court which usually results in a national championship. Some posters on here just don't get it.

 

[MWes11]

John Calipari ‏@UKCoachCalipari 1m1 minute ago
If Alex doesn't get hurt, 8 are drafted. We fell short of a national title but this season was not disappointing to me. Have a great day!

 

[BobbyG_tickle_swerv]

What's the message he's sending to recruits? This, together with the no longer platooning comment, sounds like he's saying not winning the title was because of trying to play too many players. But then why not just come out and say that?

 

[wild mandu]

He loves his players so much, he let Andrew Harrison coach the last 5 minutes against Wisconsin.

(I'm just kidding)*

*kind of

 

[Rhavicc]

I would be shocked that people are still bitching about this, but this is Rupp's Rafters, so I'm not.

@3rex is still an idiot.

 

[MWes11]

I would be shocked that people are still bitching about this, but this is Rupp's Rafters, so I'm not.

@3rex is still an idiot.

An idiot for what? Discussing his opinions on a message board, and because they might not be the same as yours, he is an idiot?

 

[Catfan2226]

John Calipari ‏@UKCoachCalipari 1m1 minute ago
If Alex doesn't get hurt, 8 are drafted. We fell short of a national title but this season was not disappointing to me. Have a great day!

Just keep winning and have us in the hunt for final 4s...i dont actually give a shit how many leave for the nba.just keep the program clean and the wins coming because no player is above the program and no coach is either.

 

[BIG BLU3]

Don’t get too frustrated on Cal's publicly stated priorities. Whether he is talking to a recruit, a radio show, a corporate function, or to a random person on the street, he is always saying what he wants a recruit to hear. I don’t believe for a minute winning is a second priority to him. But he knows EVERYTHING he says will be tweeted, spun, broadcast, and/or communicated in some way to the basketball world. So he wants it to always be interpreted as players first.
With that understanding, I believe every word that comes out of his mouth is meant for recruits, because he knows with the best players comes wins and Final Fours.

 

[Rhavicc]

An idiot for what? Discussing his opinions on a message board, and because they might not be the same as yours, he is an idiot?

Apparently you haven't seen his unpopular, ill-informed opinions scattered all over this board? Not just this thread.
98% of his posts reek of ignorance. I don't believe he's intentionally stupid, I believe he chooses to be that way.

 

[BobbyG_tickle_swerv]

Don’t get too frustrated on Cal's publicly stated priorities. Whether he is talking to a recruit, a radio show, a corporate function, or to a random person on the street, he is always saying what he wants a recruit to hear. I don’t believe for a minute winning is a second priority to him. But he knows EVERYTHING he says will be tweeted, spun, broadcast, and/or communicated in some way to the basketball world. So he wants it to always be interpreted as players first.
With that understanding, I believe every word that comes out of his mouth is meant for recruits, because he knows with the best players comes wins and Final Fours.

I'm sorry but it sounds like you're saying he's not sincere when he speaks. Rather he says what he thinks people want to hear.

 

[MWes11]

Apparently you haven't seen his unpopular, ill-informed opinions scattered all over this board? Not just this thread.
98% of his posts reek of ignorance. I don't believe he's intentionally stupid, I believe he chooses to be that way.

No, I haven't kept tabs on him. But I enjoy good discussion.

 

[wild mandu]

Newsflash - coaches aren't sincere in public. At least not the good ones.

When there's a mic in front of them, they're basically car salesmen.

 

[KYFOSSIL]

I certainly don't believe that Cal thought for a second that he was risking a title.

But that doesn't mean his in-game decisions couldn't have done so, or that said decisions couldn't be influenced, even a little bit, by his infatuation with all things NBA, NBA draft, and his ultimate goal of his players getting there.

Do you honestly think in the heat of battle in an NCAA tourney game Cal thought about the NBA at all??
That's moronic even by troll standards!

 

[Rhavicc]

No, I haven't kept tabs on him. But I enjoy good discussion.

Blind ignorance isn't good for discussion or debate.

 

[3rex]

Do you honestly think in the heat of battle in an NCAA tourney game Cal thought about the NBA at all??
That's moronic even by troll standards!

I've already answered this. I don't think you have to be "thinking of the NBA" constantly for it to have an influence on a decision or decisions you might make.

 

[KYFOSSIL]

Apparently you haven't seen his unpopular, ill-informed opinions scattered all over this board? Not just this thread.
98% of his posts reek of ignorance. I don't believe he's intentionally stupid, I believe he chooses to be that way.

Just a correction: if he chooses to be that way it is intentional ;p

 

[brianpoe]

What's the message he's sending to recruits? This, together with the no longer platooning comment, sounds like he's saying not winning the title was because of trying to play too many players. But then why not just come out and say that?

Why not just come out and agree with all of the evidence and admit UNC cheated, then you can ask questions of our program.

 

[brianpoe]

I'm sorry but it sounds like you're saying he's not sincere when he speaks. Rather he says what he thinks people want to hear.

Are you sincere about UNC not cheating?

 

[BobbyG_tickle_swerv]

Are you sincere about UNC not cheating?

Wow, a lot of people here are very interested in the UNC scandal, but you're the first I talked with that is more concerned about that than discussing UK. Any chance you get you bring up UNC. If you'd like to talk more about UNC that's fine, but it might be better to make a thread instead of turning every other one into a UNC thread. Just my opinion.

 

[BlueRunner11]

It could be argued that he did that at the end of the Wisconsin game when he left Ulis on the bench in favor of Andrew.

You have to live or die with Andrew in that situation. He had a great tourney/second half of the season, he's your veteran pg with National Title game experience. Unfortunately, he screwed up when it counted the most.

I could only imagine what would have been said on here if Cal went with Ulis and Ulis made those same mistakes. "Why would Cal not go with Andrew?!?!" "How can you put a freshman in that spot?" etc etc

 

[MWes11]

You have to live or die with Andrew in that situation. He had a great tourney/second half of the season, he's your veteran pg with National Title game experience. Unfortunately, he screwed up when it counted the most.

I could only imagine what would have been said on here if Cal went with Ulis and Ulis made those same mistakes. "Why would Cal not go with Andrew?!?!" "How can you put a freshman in that spot?" etc etc

Hindsight is 20/20, plain and simple. If you live in the shoulda, woulda, coulda world, you will drive yourself crazy. That is how the cards were played, and we have to deal with it.