Do you go to Church?

[IdaCat]

No, I'm not going to compare the child to Jesus.

One reason the child may not recognize his parent could be that the parent has never called him or visited him in person. Another could be that the child doesn't trust the information he's been given that this is his parent.

The parent lets the child be sent to a concentration camp to be tortured solely because the child rejects the idea that this is his parent.

Is this an act of love or justice? Can you please just answer the question?

 

[cawoodsct]

And if that's the case that's ok, me and him just have different beliefs. Even the worst of the worst, I would not cast into hell, I may give them the same darkness or nothingness before life, but I would not give anyone hell. That's me, we all believe different, but I would not give any human hell for eternity. The hell I'd give is not living forever if that's the case.

 

[krazykats]

Ok fine, no. Even as a stranger I do not think sending anyone to be tortured is an act of love, but I will say you e not painted a very logical picture here what so ever so I'm very intrigued where this goes.

 

[IdaCat]

Ok fine, no. Even as a stranger I do not think sending anyone to be tortured is an act of love, but I will say you e not painted a very logical picture here what so ever so I'm very intrigued where this goes.

Thank you. I agree that it's not logical. Nor is it reasonable in any way. Gotta step out for a few minutes, but I'll be back to explain it.

 

[Bill Derington]

I believe Ida is comparing this with his not believing in God. I apologize if I'm wrong and spoke out of line Ida.

 

[IdaCat]

The parent is god. The drowned children are the people god killed in the flood. God just killed a whole lot more than 2 or 3 in a bathtub.

The child who wouldn't accept god as his parent and is sent to a concentration camp (Hell) to be tortured is an unbeliever.

I posed this question to wkycatfan to show that his parent/God analogy is a bad one. But it is something for everybody to think about. Thanks for your honest answers krazy.

 

[krazykats]

Ok see I knew there was something to it.

1- the flood, people die and God has left his word in the form of the bible for all to do as they may. They were not choosing the rightful path so as an example he sent his son to show us how to live, help, love, and sacrifice. Still people chose to not follow and believe. We are all children of God, but if your children become thieves and evil doers I'm sure you will be ok if they land in jail. Worse case scenario they end up dead on the path they chose which will hurt, but as the parent you may not choose to understand that the life they chose leads to that but it does, sadly.

2- Hell, God has given all the tools to live righteously and accept Jesus as our personal savior. He has also chose to allow evil to run rampant in this world as a test to our character/belief. If we fail and do not accept him then he'll is a destiny you chose, not God. You must have an issue with accountability for your own actions. It's like killing, stealing, dealing drugs etc and complaining once caught that you have to do jail time, sorry bub the consequence was made well aware to you and you choose you path regardless. That's on you.

 

[akers65]

Noah was the only true child left.
I don't believe you can chose God, otherwise you wouldn't be chosen out of the world. If it was a choice, you would be a choosing generation and not a chosen generation.

I know this doctrine is too hard for most to accept. I expect most Christians to fear it. I also know most never study on what they read or read past the four gospels. Ephesians is clear and written to a gentile church btw. When he says "us" he is referring to him and the people that are in the Ephesian church. It is a letter to them.

 

[IdaCat]

Believers have a compartment in their mind where everything they know about morality and basic human compassion does not exist. This is the area of their mind that supports their irrational, twisted religious beliefs. I offer the little exchange above as evidence.

 

[krazykats]

But that is not legit evidence. It was clear you were reaching, there is more to the story than you let be known which changes the impact. If your not capable of offering up details as a means to get the answer you want then your evidence is flawed.

If your son ends up a thief will you allow him in your house even after he steals from you? What if he is a drug addict and stole your pain meds after a surgery? How do you deal with it?

 

[IdaCat]

But that is not legit evidence. It was clear you were reaching, there is more to the story than you let be known which changes the impact. If your not capable of offering up details as a means to get the answer you want then your evidence is flawed.

If your son ends up a thief will you allow him in your house even after he steals from you? What if he is a drug addict and stole your pain meds after a surgery? How do you deal with it?

This is sad. It really is.

 

[akers65]

People have a conscience, some listen to it others don't.
Compassion is a part of it, My belief doesn't block my view of human compassion and morality. I know many non believers who I believe are wonderful compassionate and moral people.
So you are incorrect in your post Idacat.

 

[IdaCat]

People have a conscience, some listen to it others don't.
Compassion in a part of it, My belief doesn't block my view of human ca passion and morality. I know many non believers who I believe are wonderful compassionate and moral people.
So you are incorrect in your post Idacat.

I agree that there are some very compassionate believers. Maybe I wasn't clear. The point is that they don't hold their god to the same standard. Their ideas of compassion and morality don't work when thinking about their god

 

[krazykats]

It isnt "wrong" IMHO it's flawed, it's black and white rationale regardless of details. In his case the details matter but he pretends they shouldn't.

He refuses to answer my questions because that would mean he would have to admit to tough love without being tricked into it.

 

[krazykats]

Another example is, and maybe a tougher one

Let's say your son goes nuts, maybe some stranger murders his child, and he snaps and kills the murderer and accidentally also kills 3-4 other people and runs and is in hiding. Do you think if your son came to you to hide him after that, that you'd protect him or turn him in knowing he chose his path and his consequence is his to serve?

 

[akers65]

Do you do what you want with your possessions? They are yours to do with as you please, If so you just justified God.

 

[IdaCat]

krazy, I gave you those details. I even elaborated when you asked for more. It's over. Own it.

 

[IdaCat]

Do you do what you want with your possessions? They are yours to do with as you please, If so you just justified God.

That's a sick way to look at it, IMO.

If all I am is a possession, don't give me any more of that "relationship" crap.

 

[krazykats]

krazy, I gave you those details. I even elaborated when you asked for more. It's over. Own it.

LOL, exactly. Cool. Answer my questions, any of them whenever you choose.

You did not give details, you said the the child was great member of society and further more acted as if he is guranteed to be sent to concentration camp. Jesus died for all of our sins. No where and I mean no where does it say you live a good righteous life and you still get sent to hell. You may be strong enough to do it on your own, most aren't and most sin. If your constantly doing little thinks against God and never repent for your sins, like I said that's on you bud. You choose your destiny. Most people I know that accept it and own live how they want and even joke about seeing others in hell etc.......again your scared to be accountable for your choices and actions.

That's sad!

 

[akers65]

What God has made is his isn't it.
Also th children of God are called the purchased possession.

 

[akers65]

If a man passes Any judgement made against God when turned around towards man will villionize that man.

 

[IdaCat]

What God has made is his isn't it.
Also th children of God are called the purchased possession.

If you want to think of yourself as a possession of a monster, I'm not stopping you. Not trying to be rude. That's just the plain language of the situation, IMO.

 

[akers65]

That's a sick way to look at it, IMO.

If all I am is a possession, don't give me any more of that "relationship" crap.

He said "all souls are mine"
What is a man that his is mindful of him......Job's question

 

[DaBossIsBack]

The idea of sin is actually quite ridiculous.

 

[IdaCat]

He said "all souls are mine"
What is a man that his is mindful of him......Job's question

I don't care what the Bible says he said. All it does is make him look worse.

That's the problem. You've got to justify your god character as portrayed by the words of ancient people with a primitive, barbarous morality.

 

[argubs2]

Where do you people find the energy to continue this

 

[IdaCat]

akers, make up your mind. Either we're possessions or we're god's children, with whom we can have a relationship. You can't have it both ways.

 

[krazykats]

Ida, are you avoiding my questions? Why not answer mine? Is it because OMG you might have to show your harsh side? Or are you just trolling as best you can now with false arguments to justify not believing?

If you do t believe it doesn't make you bad nor does it make your destiny hell.

 

[Beavis606]

John 14:6
Zachoriah 12:10
There is only one way to heaven, through Jesus Christ. Pretty simple really.

What am I missing here? Jews don't believe Jesus' divinity. The overwhelming majority of them anyway.

 

[IdaCat]

If your son ends up a thief will you allow him in your house even after he steals from you? What if he is a drug addict and stole your pain meds after a surgery? How do you deal with it?

Assuming these are your questions, they are not at all related to the original scenario we discussed. The "child" in my original question was not a thief. He hadn't stolen from anybody, and he wasn't a drug addict on pain meds.

Even if he was, I wouldn't want him sent to a concentration camp to be tortured. I'd want him either in jail or rehab.

There. Questions answered.

 

[krazykats]

Your right, you didn't explain the child that way, but you did gurantee that the child you explained is sent to hell. I'm saying it's not guranteed based on your reason. That is the difference.

In my example, I'm saying time after time the child is doing wrong and choosing the wrong path. Your fine with the consequence in that example as is God. Yet still God doesn't teach that those actions gurantee hell either. The child can repent and become a better person and learn from the bad/evil deeds he chose to do and guess what he still ends up in heaven.

Pretty simple really whether you want to believe it that way or stick with your black/white flawed approach isn't the important part.

God wants you to question him, he wants you to allow him to prove himself, and only then can you actually see how he can work in your life.

 

[IdaCat]

The child in my scenario never accepts his parent. This means he never accepts Jesus or repents.

If this is not a ticket to Hell in your beliefs, I guess you must be one of those ultra-liberal Christians.

 

[krazykats]

I know my god can be harsh and punishment comes with the harshness. But he test us regardless of our belief in him as a means to challenge our character. We prove who and what we are during our lives.

I do think we should repent, but repenting is being truly sorry for the wrong that we do.

I posted some people do not consider me as christian because of how I see things. I ultimately do beleive in God because of what he has done recently in my life and how he has shown me the path I was choosing was not one I should have been on and he has provided me with bare essentials but allowed me to grow into the right path .

 

[VT/UK Rondo]

What am I missing here? Jews don't believe Jesus' divinity. The overwhelming majority of them anyway.

Jesus said I am the way, the truth and the life, no man may cometh unto the Father but by me.
Jews dont believe the messiah has been born yet
The Bible says in the final days Isreal will finally recognize Jesus as the messiah
Either way, acceptance of Jesus as savior is the only way to heaven (which is why I dont concern myself with reading of the Quaran or any of the other isms out there that conflict with this)

 

[IdaCat]

krazy, I'd buy you a beer if you were here. Peace man.

 

[WalkersGoggles]

I can't believe grown ups buy into all this. Either love me or burn in hell? Either believe I exist or burn in hell? Tell me how awesome I am or burn in hell? I own u but we have a relationship??

What you are describing is not a creater of the universe--you are describing the episode of the twilight zone where the family is scared of the little boy who has magical powers.

You are giving too much power to men who lived 1000s of years ago. You describe it all like children. Are you?

I believe in live and let live but this crazy hard line church stuff is a little creepy. It's like the hard line Christians have decided to out looney the Muslim terrorists.

And the sad part is you all don't even see it. You are so grain washed in it from such an early age that you can't even step outside it for a minute to see that you are exactly like the hard line Muslims sans bombs(but it really looks like that's coming)

I went to church as a kid and it was NONE of what some u all talk about.

Ps-when are u true believers going to stone all those people working on the weekends?

 

[akers65]

akers, make up your mind. Either we're possessions or we're god's children, with whom we can have a relationship. You can't have it both ways.

What I wrote is straight from the book sorry if you didn't like it.




I knew my comments were controversial when I posted them. I was just checking something. I figured they would upset some people. I found out what I was looking for.

Sorry to cause anyone confusion or upset anyone. I was conducting a small experiment with every comment I have made in this thread. Thanks for any responses, I found out what I wanted to know. I will leave you all alone.

 

[IdaCat]

What I wrote is straight from the book sorry if you didn't like it.




I knew my comments were controversial when I posted them. I was just checking something. I figured they would upset some people. I found out what I was looking for.

Sorry to cause anyone confusion or upset anyone. I was conducting a small experiment with every comment I have made in this thread. Thanks for any responses, I found out what I wanted to know. I will leave you all alone.

Akers, my little "experiment" was an attempt to get people to think for themselves and provide honest opinions that aren't polluted by what some book tells them to believe. I have to thank krazy for staying engaged and honestly answering the 2 questions.

Only after the analogy was revealed did the "thinking for themselves" process end and the "what it says in this book" routine begin.

You see, rational thought separates truth from BS. It always wins over what is written in any book. It's the way to know if what is written in a book is true.

I hope you remember that next time you have the urge to recite Bible verses to support your position. And BTW, you did not upset me in the least. I expected your responses. I hope this didn't sound condescending. I don't mean it to come across that way.

PS: If you're reading a book about Quantum Mechanics, forget what I said about rational thought.

 

[Beavis606]

Jesus said I am the way, the truth and the life, no man may cometh unto the Father but by me.
Jews dont believe the messiah has been born yet
The Bible says in the final days Isreal will finally recognize Jesus as the messiah
Either way, acceptance of Jesus as savior is the only way to heaven (which is why I dont concern myself with reading of the Quaran or any of the other isms out there that conflict with this)

1. Are you saying that 2000+ years of Jews who rejected Christ will escape hell, while 2000+ years of everyone else who did so will be shit out of luck?

2. To your second point, you are married to your religion's teachings and won't "concern yourself" with others; just like Muslims and others who show no concern to Christianity. That's what I've been saying all along. People are born into their culture's dominant religion.

 

[MegaBlue05]

2. To your second point, you are married to your religion's teachings and won't "concern yourself" with others; just like Muslims and others who show no concern to Christianity. That's what I've been saying all along. People are born into their culture's dominant religion.

Nailed it.

There's going to be a lot of people wrong in the end.