Do you go to Church?

[ctharris07]

Totally with you on that @Beavis606. I have a really hard time with that as well. I've heard sermons like that before and they a hard to stomach. I know that Patrick Towles said something like "it's not a buffet where you can pick and choose." Lots of people think like that. I'm not one of those. And I'd be lying if I said I am 100% concrete in my stance as a Christian.

 

[krazykats]

That is right willy, never argued otherwise. But the devil plays his part as to how gods people prove themselves so it is beneficial.

Do you just blindly trust your children to never lie, disobey, or act out against you?

 

[krazykats]

Beavis those pastors are wording it incorrectly IMO. In my understanding it's not that you have to believe it, but instead it's if your a christian you will see it in a manner in which it is believable. You will do that on your own.

Almost like something you absolutely know can't be true, to make it easy let's say being rich can make life harder. Hard to believe that for me as a middle of the road earner and middle class family!

But if being rich doesn't bring friends and family out of the woodwork I don't know what does and telling them no to every idea they scheme up is hard. So is teaching your kids about not being rich and to try to earn money not just ask for a hand out.

It is still hard but you do not believe it until your there.

ChriStianity and God works much the same way. But I'm not saying God is money.

 

[Willy4UK]

That is right willy, never argued otherwise. But the devil plays his part as to how gods people prove themselves so it is beneficial.

Do you just blindly trust your children to never lie, disobey, or act out against you?

I don't have children Krazy and I'm not much a role model for young people so if I had children. Yes, I would expect them all to lie and disobey. However, parents create kids, not the Universe and everything under it. Big difference.

Example. The Sims video game. The creator of that program can program "sin or evil" to be a part of that experience or not.

 

[IdaCat]

That is right willy, never argued otherwise. But the devil plays his part as to how gods people prove themselves so it is beneficial.

Do you just blindly trust your children to never lie, disobey, or act out against you?

Did god not make people the way they are? Did he not make the sociopath to lack empathy? And does he not know before a person is born what that person will do? We are created sick and commanded to be well. This god character is one sick, stupid SOB.

OTOH, a purely natural explanation makes perfect sense.

 

[Willy4UK]

In that same manner. God also created the cells that go awry in the body to possibly turn into cancer.

So who gets the wrap on cancer? God must have known that cancer would kill his children. Cancer may be the most brutal disease to endure. Who would do that someone as innocent as a baby?

 

[akers65]

Honestly, there are a lot of Christians who want an image and aren't true, but there are also some "non-Christians" that are very much living christian lives.

Believers and non-believers have a lot of the same basic core values/morals that depending on how life goes change and get manipulated. Staying strong is very hard and ultimately I think that is what the true belief in Jesus/God is all about. Admitting a powerful being higher than us is due credit for being our strength in times of weakness to keep us going forward, and forward is different for everyone.

Believe or don't, it's your game to play.

I agreed earlier with the fact that most non Christians are very good people.

There's four types of people.
Non believers
Those who want to believe
Those who think they believe
And those who believe because of an experience they've had.

A lot of religious people torment everyone trying to "save" them. The last ones I listed know why they believe and for the most part leave others alone.

 

[ram1955]

I would agree with these things being included. More succinctly, the overall theme is the vindication of God's right to rule mankind by means of his Kingdom.

The issue brought up in Genesis that so many people miss is one of universal sovereignty - who has the right to rule?

Which we still see today. That seems to be the eternal conflict: is man sovereign or is God sovereign?

 

[Mozes-Prince22]

Obviously I'm a little late to the party with this thread. Figured I would still post though. I go as often as I can. Due to work, I go about once a month. I'm leaving my current job in August so I will start going every Sunday after I leave. I'm not one who thinks you have to go to church to be saved and go to heaven but it definitely doesn't hurt. Honestly, I don't get a ton out of the services, but I like spending that time with my family. My knowledge of the bible isn't great, but in my opinion, you don't have to know the book front and back to make yourself a good Christian and follower of Christ.

I do understand why people have sour tastes in their mouths from the church. But at the same time, it amazes me how sensitive people are. People will move their membership or "take a break" from the church due to some of the dumbest things. The pastor says one thing that might be considered a slight at a specific political party, sports team, or whatever it may be, and people bolt because they're mad. No matter what church you attend, you're not always going to agree with everything that the pastor, youth minister, music minister, etc. has to say.

There's my rant.

 

[ram1955]

The point of fish story is re-inforce that he can create the Earth? So the point up creating the devil to show that God can create something evil? (back to my previous point that if God create the devil, then god can taketh away).

God must have known the devil would have been evil. No author writes a story and has no clue what his characters of the story will do. Doesn't happen. So if god knew the devil was to be evil, then god is a dick.

Or maybe free will gone awry.

 

[-LEK-]

Or Free Willy gone awry?

 

[akers65]

I've read it. It just doesn't have any more authority than Harry Potter to me.

You can memorize every verse in the Bible and spew them as replies to every critical question somebody asks. It's like throwing spitballs against a guided nuclear missile of reason.

I don't do that either, since the bible is what most Christians follow, I only responsed to comments about the Christian God.

I don't thow out verses for anything, like I said I was fishing to see who, mainly those who claim to have faith, actually read the book they claim to follow. I understood that it's basically nonsense to the non Believers in this thread. I wasn't attempting to convert anyone. I too, used to be a non believer, and no person changed my beliefs nor could they.

 

[Willy4UK]

Or maybe free will gone awry.

Ram. In order for there to be "Free will", it has to be designed.

Going back to my Sims example. Sims is a virtual role playing computer program. If the creator of the Sims does not program things like couches, tables, or cars. The Sims characters would never know about those objects. It's not a part of their world until the designer creates those objects.

So in the Sims, the designer can create the characters to have disease or make them devoid of disease.

 

[IdaCat]

I don't do that either, since the bible is what most Christians follow, I only responsed to comments about the Christian God.

I don't thow out verses for anything, like I said I was fishing to see who, mainly those who claim to have faith, actually read the book they claim to follow. I understood that it's basically nonsense to the non Believers in this thread. I wasn't attempting to convert anyone. I too, used to be a non believer, and no person changed my beliefs nor could they.

Oh, OK. I didn't know you were trolling the other believers.

 

[ram1955]

The difference -- to me -- is that pastors will tell you, and have told me, that you must believe every single word of the Bible. No ifs, ands or buts. One pastor told me that being like Thomas was the worst thing you could be. He said in one sermon if you didn't believe the jonah story, the Moses/burning bush story, talking serpent story, etc., that you might as well walk out of this building right now. And he isn't some crazy self-taught fundamentalist; he's a doctor and one of the higher-ups at one of Kentucky's prominent seminaries.

Could an omnipotent Creator cause such things to occur? If He can create the universe from nothing, causing those things to happen would be small stuff for Him. Too many of us Christians get caught up in majoring on the minor details when we should be focusing on the objectives of the stories and what they teach us about God. The Jonah story is not about a fish. It's about trying to escape God's presence AND a lesson to the Hebrews that while they may be God's chosen, He cares for the gentile. Notice at the end of the story, He puts Jonah in his place. The other two stories you cite also have objectives . I don't agree with the pastor's approach. Our doubts only mean we're human. BUT...they can cause us to give up our faith or they can cause us to dig deeper and make us stronger in our faith. As for a seminary trained person not having doubts: I doubt that. It caused me to question everything I ever believed or was taught. One of my first professors warned us that it could happen. It raised more questions than it gave answers. As a result, interestingly, I feel much closer to God

The story of creation is a prime example of what you don't like. Did God create everything in six day as the Bible says? If so, why did He decide to take so long? He could have done it with the snap of His fingers. Again the point of the story is not the details.

I know this won't sit well with the poster that mentioned cancer, but here it goes. The world was not created with illness, nor death, nor hunger...all were a result of evil enterring
God's creation.

Respectfully,
ram

 

[krazykats]

You guys are making my point and just not accepting it because you question why would God do such a thing. But in reality why shouldn't he challenge us? Do you honestly like everything to be easy? Evil/devil or whatever is something we face everyday, once we are strong enough to avoid temptation then we are beginning to see the light.

Do cruel things happen in life that make you question God? Yes they do. Does that make him bad? No!!

He'll read the book of Joeb, and you will see God himself will test you in ways you may not think you can handle......but you can and he will show you.

 

[Willy4UK]

You guys are making my point and just not accepting it because you question why would God do such a thing. But in reality why shouldn't he challenge us? Do you honestly like everything to be easy? Evil/devil or whatever is something we face everyday, once we are strong enough to avoid temptation then we are beginning to see the light.

Do cruel things happen in life that make you question God? Yes they do. Does that make him bad? No!!

He'll read the book of Joeb, and you will see God himself will test you in ways you may not think you can handle......but you can and he will show you.

With cancer? I don't get how that is a beneficial challenge for humans. Unless, God created cancer for his children to cure it. Kinda of a weird way of challenging us, but hey.

 

[akers65]

Idacat

I am likely the strangest believer you'll every meet.
I know that there are no words that I or anyone can post that will turn any unbeliever into a believer. I don't go around telling people they're going to hell if they don't change their ways.
There is many other things that most Christians do that I don't.

I have my reasons for my belief and my faith, and for the reason I'm different from the average Christian you probably have met.

 

[IdaCat]

You guys are making my point and just not accepting it because you question why would God do such a thing. But in reality why shouldn't he challenge us? Do you honestly like everything to be easy? Evil/devil or whatever is something we face everyday, once we are strong enough to avoid temptation then we are beginning to see the light.

Do cruel things happen in life that make you question God? Yes they do. Does that make him bad? No!!

He'll read the book of Joeb, and you will see God himself will test you in ways you may not think you can handle......but you can and he will show you.

No, I don't want everything to be easy. I want more babies born with cancer. I want more serial killers running loose.

God and satan like to sit around and wager on how much torment I can take before I crack (Job). I like god poking me like a test rat to see what I do. I understand. I pull the legs off bugs and torture small mammals in my spare time so I can be like god.

 

[ymmot31]

God has flipped out!

 

[IdaCat]

akers, I have no problems with you man.

 

[akers65]

akers, I have no problems with you man.

I have none with you either

 

[thebluestripes]

since you did bring up history, I can could also say the same thing about the rulers during the Crusades. BTW, name those Atheist dictators. Because Hitler was against secular religion.

Regardless of history. history is history.

"In Germany during the Nazi era, a 1933 decree stated that “No National Socialist may suffer detriment… on the ground that he does not make any religious profession at all”.[15] However, the regime strongly opposed “godless communism”,[16][17] and most of Germany’s atheist and largely left-wing freethought organizations were banned the same year; some right-wing groups were tolerated by the Nazis until the mid-1930s.[18][19] During negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordat of April 26, 1933 Hitler stated that “Secular schools can never be tolerated” because of their irreligious tendencies.[" Hitler also said

In a speech in 1922, he stated:

“My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter."

Pol Pot.

"As for Pol Pot, things are a little less obvious. One oft-cited quote by Christians appears to be that Prince Norodom Sihanouk once said of Pol Pot:"

“Pol Pot does not believe in God but he thinks that heaven, destiny, wants him to guide Cambodia in the way he thinks it the best for Cambodia, that is to say, the worst. Pol Pot is mad, you know, like Hitler.” So Pol Pot had a God-complex-
Stalin- was born Georgian Orthodox faith

http://www.skepticink.com/tippling/...atheism-hitlerstalinpol-pot-atheism-atrocity/

actually I was thinking bout joseph stallin in particular

During his time in power, Stalin had a complex relationship with religion. He officially adopted the Russian Communist Party’s stance on religion, claiming atheism and continuing the tradition of teaching atheism in schools and propagating the idea that religion was only damaging to a perfect communist society. Stalin even took it further than his predecessor, Lenin, and initiated a nationwide campaign to destroy churches and religious property and even persecute and kill church officials.3 It is said that under Stalin, the Russian Orthodox Church went from 50,000 to 500 open and operating churches.4

Stalin once said:


You know, they are fooling us, there is no God… all this talk about God is sheer nonsense.5

actually stallin sounds like a few people on here, but whatever


If you need more examples, then I guess we could talk bout mussolini, mao, kim jung il.

And just so you know, I'm not trying to run down athiests, just disagreeing with the other posters thought that
my belief system has harmed people.

Dude it all comes back to the crusades. Every flipping time athiest want to paint Christiannity as some murderous religion, they bring up something that happened centuries ago. That gets old because Christiannity of today doesn't look alot like Christiannity of years gone by. and for the record The crusades wouldnt have been necessary if not for a certain religion hell bent on world domination.

 

[Beavis606]

Every flipping time athiest want to paint Christiannity as some murderous religion, they bring up something that happened centuries ago. That gets old because Christiannity of today doesn't look alot like Christiannity of years gone by. and for the record The crusades wouldnt have been necessary if not for a certain religion hell bent on world domination.

I'm no atheist, and I have a big problem with Christianity evolving. The bible says God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Never changing. And yet it is night and day how he is portrayed in the old and new testaments. The church today is radically different from 50 years ago, let alone 400 years ago (puritans), or the middle ages (when priests sold spots that guaranteed heaven), or in Christ's time on earth.

If Christ is the light and the only way, and the Bible is the only handbook, why have doctrines and teachings changed every few generations? Why were books of the Bible added and subtracted for hundreds of years until it settled on its present form? Religious people seem to get their feathers ruffled when science adapts theories and makes changes when new evidence and information is discovered. But it seems to me Christianity is even more guilty of this, when its stance should not change at all.

I would respect Christianity a lot more if it had remained constant. It has done anything but that.

 

[Willy4UK]

Dude it all comes back to the crusades. Every flipping time athiest want to paint Christiannity as some murderous religion, they bring up something that happened centuries ago. That gets old because Christiannity of today doesn't look alot like Christiannity of years gone by. and for the record The crusades wouldnt have been necessary if not for a certain religion hell bent on world domination.

Just because Stalin was an Atheist (he was born a religious person- for the record) does not mean that Atheism drives a person to murder. Not sure how that is relevant. Like that article mentioned. George Bush and Tony Blair were HIGHLY religious and used faulty inept evidence to invade.
Did Christianity drive them to the Gulf War? Hitler was religious and he was worse than Stalin.

And for the Crusades. Yep, It always go back to them. Wouldn't have been necessary? Sure it would've. Christianity was gaining in riches and power, through self narcissist asshats like Charlemagne. You can't "spread" the word to other countries without blood on a sword.

 

[DaBossIsBack]

So basically we are god's social experiment?

 

[IdaCat]

That Sims video game hadn't been invented yet and he was bored so he created us to **** with.

 

[ymmot31]

If he hadn't wasted so much time and energy on creating a billion other galaxies and a trillion stars, he could have done a better job here.

 

[Bill Derington]

Just because Stalin was an Atheist (he was born a religious person- for the record) does not mean that Atheism drives a person to murder. Not sure how that is relevant. Like that article mentioned. George Bush and Tony Blair were HIGHLY religious and used faulty inept evidence to invade.
Did Christianity drive them to the Gulf War? Hitler was religious and he was worse than Stalin.

And for the Crusades. Yep, It always go back to them. Wouldn't have been necessary? Sure it would've. Christianity was gaining in riches and power, through self narcissist asshats like Charlemagne. You can't "spread" the word to other countries without blood on a sword.

Hitler wasn't religious as an adult, and Stalin was as bad if not worse than hitter. Stalin killed 24 million of his own people.

 

[Willy4UK]

Hitler wasn't religious as an adult, and Stalin was as bad if not worse than hitter. Stalin killed 24 million of his own people.

Hitler. Nope. You're wrong Bill. Hitler was religious. Copying what I posted earlier. During negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordat of April 26, 1933 Hitler stated that “Secular schools can never be tolerated” because of their irreligious tendencies.[" Hitler also said

In a speech in 1922, he stated:

“My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter."

Stalin did not kill 24 million based on Atheism. If he did Bill, I need a direct source stating Stalin killed 24 million based on his lack of belief in God.

 

[Bill Derington]

I didn't mean Stalin did it because he was atheist. Sorry if it came across that way.
Hitler used it as a tool to ensure winning power. Im not saying he acted the way he did because he was an atheist either, I'm just saying he may didn't view himself in private as a Christian.

 

[Bill Derington]

Goebbels wrote in 1941 that Hitler hated Christianity because it had destroyed all that was noble in humanity.
Let's not get into this Willie, we're not going to change what we think.

 

[Willy4UK]

I didn't mean Stalin did it because he was atheist. Sorry if it came across that way.
Hitler used it as a tool to ensure winning power. Im not saying he acted the way he did because he was an atheist either, I'm just saying he may didn't view himself in private as a Christian.

Sorry, I hear a lot church folks use Stalin as a reference, but just saying that it wasn't his lack of faith that caused him to kill his own people.

Hitler was Roman Catholic. If he did grow bitter about the religion, it wasn't because of Atheism.

 

[Bill Derington]

Sorry, I hear a lot church folks use Stalin as a reference, but just saying that it wasn't his lack of faith that caused him to kill his own people.

Hitler was Roman Catholic. If he did grow bitter about the religion, it wasn't because of Atheism.

Hitler and Stalin were hellbent on power, and had no regard for life. Their beliefs one way or the other played no part in that.

 

[Willy4UK]

Hitler and Stalin were hellbent on power, and had no regard for life. Their beliefs one way or the other played no part in that.

Yep. You got that shit right. If anything, they prolly developed more into Deists than anything.

Stalin and Hitler Those are examples don't really apply to one's religious affiliation or lack of belief in their visional quests.

That's why people often use the Crusades as a reference point for religious genocide.
Islam too and even up to current date as well. Because it's applicable.

 

[Bill Derington]

The crusades were 1000 years ago, and they came about because of Muslim conquests.

If you just looked at the United States dropping an atomic bomb on Japan, and not what led up to it we would look like monsters to someone 1000 years from now.

That wasn't meant to justify the cruelties the crusaders dealt out, I'm just painting a picture of the situation.

 

[akers65]

Why do people blame Christianity for the crusades? It was one church, most the other demonations like the baptist, didn't take part. The baptist churches can trace their history to long before the crusades as well.


That one church has killed millions.

 

[ymmot31]

Hitler. Nope. You're wrong Bill. Hitler was religious. Copying what I posted earlier. During negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordat of April 26, 1933 Hitler stated that “Secular schools can never be tolerated” because of their irreligious tendencies.[" Hitler also said

In a speech in 1922, he stated:

“My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter."

Stalin did not kill 24 million based on Atheism. If he did Bill, I need a direct source stating Stalin killed 24 million based on his lack of belief in God.

Sorry Willy, I've got to go with Bill on this one. After all, nobody is better at judging someone than a Christian.

 

[Willy4UK]

The crusades were 1000 years ago, and they came about because of Muslim conquests.

If you just looked at the United States dropping an atomic bomb on Japan, and not what led up to it we would look like monsters to someone 1000 years from now.

That wasn't meant to justify the cruelties the crusaders dealt out, I'm just painting a picture of the situation.

Christian expansion was already happening. It needed something to get it going full steam. Islam's on-going expansion was a good reason. The church's mission was no different than Islams. Both sought to convert the world. To say that isn't the case is misleading.

 

[Kooky Kats]

Yep. You got that shit right. If anything, they prolly developed more into Deists than anything.

Stalin and Hitler Those are examples don't really apply to one's religious affiliation or lack of belief in their visional quests.

That's why people often use the Crusades as a reference point for religious genocide.
Islam too and even up to current date as well. Because it's applicable.

Hitler learned from the Turks who performed a Christian holocaust of the Armenians. When no one came to the aid of the Armenians, he figured all of Europe was spent on defending religious annihilation.

He used this warped justification to invade Poland.

http://www.armenian-genocide.org/hitler.html