Why did Joe B Hall stop coaching?

[JHannibalSmith]

In reality it's a wonder that the '85 team won 18 games. Seriously undersized and undermanned.

Yeah, it was pretty much a one-man show. But, Walker was good enough to practically, single-handedly win games. They were very fortunate to make the tournament but they were playing above their heads at the right time & damn near did something really special. I have nothing but respect for Joe B. I don't agree that it's harder to win today, either. Back then teams had the same talent, but they were juniors & seniors who had played together 3-4 years. Of course, players are overall more athletic now but it doesn't mean better basketball, IMO. I'd much rather have to beat this year's UNC in a regional final than that St John's team with Mullin, Marc Jackson, Walter Berry & Bill Wennington.

 

[gossie21]

Because it was halftime. And we were up a ton on Georgetown.

 

[Blouman]

Add in the fact Hall lost the Dream Game with Masters, Bowie, Turpin, Beal, Minniefield, Hurt, Walker. Many of the fans started turning on Hall at that point.

Bowie didn't play in that game. That was the second season in a row he sat out
with his leg injury. With a healthy Bowie we win that game.

 

[Cychologist]

This was a thread discussed last year about it.
https://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/...was-not-entirely-his-own-choice.194295/page-2

The $100 handshakes and dirtiness was not "rogue fans." Let's not be that group like UNC is right now.

And yes, the LHL won a Pulitzer in 1985 regarding issues while Hall was there. Link to that SI article refercing it. The NCAA did say that we cooperated more than anyone had and referenced that we came "four feet" from getting the death penalty.

https://www.si.com/vault/1989/05/29...operating-the-wildcats-stayed-their-execution

LA Times article from 85 talking about it.

http://articles.latimes.com/1985-10-28/sports/sp-11801_1_kentucky-s-basketball

If you read the articles you posted, it says the $100 handshakes were from boosters. Joe B. was not implicated, IIRC.

 

[~Keyser Soze~]

Because it was halftime. And we were up a ton on Georgetown.

Just looked at that boxscore.
1st half: UK 29 Georgetown 22
2nd half: UK 11 Georgetown 31

Yikes! Glad that was before my time.

 

[Blouman]

The '81 and '82 NCAA losses are two of the more bizarre and inexplicable UK tournament defeats in school history. Very puzzling to this day.

82 loss Bowie was playing on a broken leg but he didn't know it. It became clear after the
season and Sam missed the next two seasons. He was our center piece on those teams.
Without him everyone else looked kinda ordinary.

 

[Blouman]

There was a lot of backlash against Hall in southeastern Kentucky for his refusal to offer Phil Cox of Cawood a scholarship in 81. He was arguably the best player and definitely the best shooter to come out of the hills since the 50's. Didn't help matters that he went to Vanderbilt and lit up the scoreboard ending up their all time leading scorer.
Cox would have been the difference maker in 84.imo

Bowie breaking his leg changed everything from 82-84

 

[Cowtown Cat]

I can't rank him ahead of Pitino. Pitino had just as many Final Fours and title game appearances and a title in 6 years. I respectfully agree to disagree. No harm in being ranked 4th behind Rupp, Calipari and Pitino though.

Agreed.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Bowie breaking his leg changed everything from 82-84

This. The Bowie injury changed everything, IMO. What could have been had Bowie not been injured....

 

[65pacecar]

I think it got too expensive paying the ushers overtime to wake the crowd up at the end of the game after his plodding style put them to sleep. The current Virginia team looks like the KY Derby in comparison to the slow ball by Joe B.

 

[Ripcord65]

There is absolutely no doubt that Joe B. Hall was, and is, "a good man." Similarly, I think there's little doubt that Tubby Smith is "a good man" - a good husband; a good father; a good member of his community, etc., etc. But . . .

I've always heard that Bear Bryant used to say, "My wife's a helluva good woman, but she can't play tackle."

Conversely, and perhaps paradoxically, Rick Pitino is (IMHO) by far the best basketball coach ever to coach at U.K. - and is an utterly despicable human being. Go figure.

 

[UpstateNYCat]

I think it got too expensive paying the ushers overtime to wake the crowd up at the end of the game after his plodding style put them to sleep. The current Virginia team looks like the KY Derby in comparison to the slow ball by Joe B.

A lot of stupid in this post.

 

[Chuckinden]

There was a lot of backlash against Hall in southeastern Kentucky for his refusal to offer Phil Cox of Cawood a scholarship in 81. He was arguably the best player and definitely the best shooter to come out of the hills since the 50's. Didn't help matters that he went to Vanderbilt and lit up the scoreboard ending up their all time leading scorer.
Cox would have been the difference maker in 84.imo

You could add Rodney Woods from Lone Jack HS to that list also. He went on to start at UT and burned us a few times.

 

[Zakk Wyldcat]

82 loss Bowie was playing on a broken leg but he didn't know it. It became clear after the
season and Sam missed the next two seasons. He was our center piece on those teams.
Without him everyone else looked kinda ordinary.

You may have meant the '81 loss. Bowie missed the entire '81-'82 and '82-'83 seasons. The '82 team got to the SEC Tournament at 20-6, lost to Alabama in the championship game, followed by the MTSU debacle.

 

[UKWildcats#8]

There is absolutely no doubt that Joe B. Hall was, and is, "a good man." Similarly, I think there's little doubt that Tubby Smith is "a good man" - a good husband; a good father; a good member of his community, etc., etc. But . . .

I've always heard that Bear Bryant used to say, "My wife's a helluva good woman, but she can't play tackle."

Conversely, and perhaps paradoxically, Rick Pitino is (IMHO) by far the best basketball coach ever to coach at U.K. - and is an utterly despicable human being. Go figure.

The guy won one title. By far the best coach over Rupp? Comical take, but you did say in your opinion, and thank God it is honest.

 

[Cychologist]

Coach Hall wanted to go where the money is so he got himself a banking job.

A joke at the time was there was a robbery at the bank where he worked and they all got away, because Hall wouldn't let the guards shoot. (Hall was famous for playing the inside game with the twin towers, Bowie, etc.)

 

[EvilMD]

You know the Joe B. Hall that I know.

I have known the man since 1976. He is a class act. I talked to him last month about a DVD of the 1975 UK versus IU game. He said that if I sent it to him he would watch it ten times. I mailed it to him. I called him back a couple weeks later and he said he had only watched it five time, and we laughed our butts off about his white lie. Of course he never gave a time limit on the ten watches.

Some of the comments made in this thread I know for a fact are total fabrications; however, one just gets tired of trying to justify the truth.

Which ones? I wasn't trying to stir anything up. I just heard that the Herald-Leader was closing in on him on the ticket thing. And it's mentioned in the other thread, too, so it wasn't just me that heard it.

 

[EvilMD]

I think it says a lot about Coach Hall that he did a show with Denny Crum. Nobody put more pressure on Hall than Crum with his success. You could tell by the show the two guys genuinely cared for one another.

 

[willievic]

YES I CAN!!!!! I NEED TO KNOW!!!!!!!

drcats, here is the truth. Coach Hall was a good coach, but not a great coach. Following a legend like Coach Rupp was a tough job. At that time, coaches didn't make much money, but there were a lot of perks that went with the job. One of the perks, was seats for the ball games at Rupp Arena. Coach Hall had 400 season tickets, that were given to him by the AD, Larry Ivy. Larry Ivy also had 200 season tickets to sell. These were sold mostly by a scalper by the nick name, Red. The tickets brought around $1500 to $2000 per season ticket, all lower arena. The Lexington Herald found out about this, and threatened to release it. Coach Hall agreed to retire, and it was never mentioned in the paper, except they asked Eddie Sutton how many tickets he needed. He said, only four. Larry Ivy was caught up in the Mumme scandal. There were a lot of things that happened that weren't above board when Ivy was the AD, and when CM Newton was the AD, such as the condo in Bermuda that UK paid for, for Newton. But that's another story.
Now you know the truth.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

 

[drcats2013]

drcats, here is the truth. Coach Hall was a good coach, but not a great coach. Following a legend like Coach Rupp was a tough job. At that time, coaches didn't make much money, but there were a lot of perks that went with the job. One of the perks, was seats for the ball games at Rupp Arena. Coach Hall had 400 season tickets, that were given to him by the AD, Larry Ivy. Larry Ivy also had 200 season tickets to sell. These were sold mostly by a scalper by the nick name, Red. The tickets brought around $1500 to $2000 per season ticket, all lower arena. The Lexington Herald found out about this, and threatened to release it. Coach Hall agreed to retire, and it was never mentioned in the paper, except they asked Eddie Sutton how many tickets he needed. He said, only four. Larry Ivy was caught up in the Mumme scandal. There were a lot of things that happened that weren't above board when Ivy was the AD, and when CM Newton was the AD, such as the condo in Bermuda that UK paid for, for Newton. But that's another story.
Now you know the truth.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

Interesting. Interesting indeed.

 

[Levibooty]

Once again a thread about Joe B and nobody mentions one of the major changes that Hall made at UK. He desegregated the Kentucky basketball team. That was no small thing in the SEC at the time. People don't want to remember how racist some of our fans were but they most certainly were.

 

[UK90]

The Herald Leader was about to nail him on some stuff. Selling tickets for personal gain. Plus they had their big expose coming up. He got out right before the crap hit the fan.

Yep. Our fans have sort of tried to whitewash this part out of the story, but I believe it did play a big part in why he resigned, and likely also why he never coached again (and was never really even pursued by anyone).

There was lot of dirtyness surrounding the program back in that 70s and 80s era (although mostly because of out of control boosters, not the coaches). That's just the truth. whether we wanna believe it or not. The stories were rampant, and pretty much everyone near the program knew it. Hall was smart enough to get out before the shit hit the fan. Sutton wasn't so fortunate.

Plus there was plenty of discontent with Hall as a coach at time as well. Fans had grown weary of Hall's preferred slow half-court pound-it-inside coaching style. They were tired of teams that repeatedly seemed to fade down the stretch and underachieve in relation to their talent level. They wanted to see something new.

 

[HarnessedCat]

drcats, here is the truth. Coach Hall was a good coach, but not a great coach. Following a legend like Coach Rupp was a tough job. At that time, coaches didn't make much money, but there were a lot of perks that went with the job. One of the perks, was seats for the ball games at Rupp Arena. Coach Hall had 400 season tickets, that were given to him by the AD, Larry Ivy. Larry Ivy also had 200 season tickets to sell. These were sold mostly by a scalper by the nick name, Red. The tickets brought around $1500 to $2000 per season ticket, all lower arena. The Lexington Herald found out about this, and threatened to release it. Coach Hall agreed to retire, and it was never mentioned in the paper, except they asked Eddie Sutton how many tickets he needed. He said, only four. Larry Ivy was caught up in the Mumme scandal. There were a lot of things that happened that weren't above board when Ivy was the AD, and when CM Newton was the AD, such as the condo in Bermuda that UK paid for, for Newton. But that's another story.
Now you know the truth.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

Larry Ivy wasn't AD then not even close.

 

[HarnessedCat]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Hagan

 

[kyboy1998]

Bowie breaking his leg changed everything from 82-84

He wouldn't have been there in 84 had he not broken his leg.

 

[EvilMD]

Not saying you are, but I hope you're not comparing Tubby to Hall in any way.

Cal has 1 final four more than Hall but Halls NIT title cancels it out. Cal and Hall are essentially the same guy right now. Both have made multiple final fours and have won the championship. Hall was elite, make no mistake about it.

You can't compare Hall to Cal. Cal is 26-7 in the NCAA tournament. He has a large number of impressive wins that much of this fan base ignores because they don't like the losses. Hall had impressive runs in 75, 78, 83, 84, and 85. The rest of his seasons ended in the NIT or in an upset loss in the NCAA. I don't know Hall's tournament record offhand but it wasn't anything close to 26-7.

 

[Blue Decade]

The Herald Leader was about to nail him on some stuff. Selling tickets for personal gain. Plus they had their big expose coming up. He got out right before the crap hit the fan.

I am not an expert on what goes on inside Joe Hall's personal thinking. But your statement is accurate, as far as it goes. I don't believe his health was an issue.

 

[railroadkat_1]

Yeah, it was pretty much a one-man show. But, Walker was good enough to practically, single-handedly win games. They were very fortunate to make the tournament but they were playing above their heads at the right time & damn near did something really special. I have nothing but respect for Joe B. I don't agree that it's harder to win today, either. Back then teams had the same talent, but they were juniors & seniors who had played together 3-4 years. Of course, players are overall more athletic now but it doesn't mean better basketball, IMO. I'd much rather have to beat this year's UNC in a regional final than that St John's team with Mullin, Marc Jackson, Walter Berry & Bill Wennington.

The Mullen with the perfect eye poke taking Kenny Walker out!

 

[Letcher County Blue]

Once again a thread about Joe B and nobody mentions one of the major changes that Hall made at UK. He desegregated the Kentucky basketball team. That was no small thing in the SEC at the time. People don't want to remember how racist some of our fans were but they most certainly were.

If I remember correctly that credit should go to Coach Rupp. Tom Payne was the first person of color to play basketball at U K. Coach Hall did the recruiting at the time but Rupp was the head coach. No one gives Rupp credit for that either. Not trying to nit pick just the facts as I remember them. Hall certainly recruited many players of color and played them under his coaching career.

 

[crestcat]

Coach Hall wasn't doing anything that Dean Smith, Denny Crum, or John Wooden weren't doing. Hall just happened to be in a college town where the local paper hates the local universities sports programs and will do anything they have to to nail them to the wall.

I always said at that time, if we were cheating they better go check the schools that got the players we couldn't sign

 

[Jbapp1978]

I'm only 24, so I have no real information or insight as to why he stopped being the coach of our beloved Wildcats.

His last 3 years were Elite 8, Final 4, Sweet 16. Though he went 18-13 the last year, it seems like he was putting out good teams every year and was bringing in top talent?(I could be wrong). He was only in his mid to late 50's in age. What was the story behind him leaving? Was he pushed out or did he just want to leave? Was there too much pressure following Rupp?

eh im from hoptown always wondered who you were, being you're 24 i wouldn't know. Joe had alot of pressure following Rupp, also beating Bobby knight as they were our top rival at the time and Bobby's teams were rolling during that era, i believe coaching for UK takes years off your life, kinda like but not as serious as president. You come in looking young, you leave with gray hair.

 

[willievic]

Larry Ivy wasn't AD then not even close.

Read it again. I didn't say Larry Ivy was the AD then. I believe Cliff Hagan was. C M Newton took his place when, I believe it was President Todd let Hagan go and hired Newton. Ivy was an Assistant AD under Newton, and then took over when Newton retired. What I was pointing out, was there were a lot of things going on from when Hall was coach until Ivy was forced out. I believe Coach Hall retired in 1985. I know I tried to get better seats from Ivy in 2000, and he said there were no lower arena seats. I knew that was a lie.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

 

[HarnessedCat]

Larry Ivy wasn't AD then not even close.

Read it again. I didn't say Larry Ivy was the AD then. I believe Cliff Hagan was. C M Newton took his place when, I believe it was President Todd let Hagan go and hired Newton. Ivy was an Assistant AD under Newton, and then took over when Newton retired. What I was pointing out, was there were a lot of things going on from when Hall was coach until Ivy was forced out. I believe Coach Hall retired in 1985. I know I tried to get better seats from Ivy in 2000, and he said there were no lower arena seats. I knew that was a lie.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

Coach Hall had 400 season tickets, that were given to him by the AD, Larry Ivy. So you didn't say this?

 

[HarnessedCat]

Read it again. I didn't say Larry Ivy was the AD then. I believe Cliff Hagan was. C M Newton took his place when, I believe it was President Todd let Hagan go and hired Newton. Ivy was an Assistant AD under Newton, and then took over when Newton retired. What I was pointing out, was there were a lot of things going on from when Hall was coach until Ivy was forced out. I believe Coach Hall retired in 1985. I know I tried to get better seats from Ivy in 2000, and he said there were no lower arena seats. I knew that was a lie.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

You are full of crap!!Get you facts straight.

 

[brianpoe]

drcats, here is the truth. Coach Hall was a good coach, but not a great coach. Following a legend like Coach Rupp was a tough job. At that time, coaches didn't make much money, but there were a lot of perks that went with the job. One of the perks, was seats for the ball games at Rupp Arena. Coach Hall had 400 season tickets, that were given to him by the AD, Larry Ivy. Larry Ivy also had 200 season tickets to sell. These were sold mostly by a scalper by the nick name, Red. The tickets brought around $1500 to $2000 per season ticket, all lower arena. The Lexington Herald found out about this, and threatened to release it. Coach Hall agreed to retire, and it was never mentioned in the paper, except they asked Eddie Sutton how many tickets he needed. He said, only four. Larry Ivy was caught up in the Mumme scandal. There were a lot of things that happened that weren't above board when Ivy was the AD, and when CM Newton was the AD, such as the condo in Bermuda that UK paid for, for Newton. But that's another story.
Now you know the truth.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

Hagan was long gone (1988) before Lee Todd came (2001).

I knew Red pretty well. He was a big time scalper, one of the best.

But he would have been rather young back in Hall's days, its possible he may have been involved toward the last couple of years I guess...

 

[CatGotMyTongue]

Dead hooker / car trunk