Who Makes an All-Calipari Team? UMASS, Memphis, and UK.

[kybassfan]

Actually, Wall was suspended by the NCAA for "cheating" as you would say.

Actually Wall was suspended due to a misunderstanding about expenses. For two games. He was reinstated and finished the year in good standing. Some Kentucky fan you are for trashing a Kentucky player. Shame on you.

Camby took items of significant value from an agent. He was never reinstated. His school was humiliated and fined six figures. Corruption. Cheating. Unworthy of a spot on Cal's top ten player list.

Got any other Kentucky players you want to bash in defense of a self admitted corrupt player from another school? Great form, that.

 

[bthaunert]

Actually Wall was suspended due to a misunderstanding about expenses. For two games. He was reinstated and finished the year in good standing. Some Kentucky fan you are for trashing a Kentucky player. Shame on you.

Camby took items of significant value from an agent. He was never reinstated. His school was humiliated and fined six figures. Corruption. Cheating. Unworthy of a spot on Cal's top ten player list.

Got any other Kentucky players you want to bash in defense of a self admitted corrupt player from another school? Great form, that.

Nah, no one to bash....that's why cheating was in quotes...it was a joke.

Honest question for ya, as this has been a fun thread to read and comment on. If Camby had not taken money from an agent, would you consider him on your all Cal team?

 

[kybassfan]

Nah, no one to bash....that's why cheating was in quotes...it was a joke.

Honest question for ya, as this has been a fun thread to read and comment on. If Camby had not taken money from an agent, would you consider him on your all Cal team?

No, and I've stated that a few times. He is not one of Cal's top three centers and for a top ten list, that's where you gotta be, maybe even top two. Cal 'Hall of fame', yeah probably. The guy can play excellent basketball and clearly Cal likes him. He just made a mistake that you simply cannot make. So he's not top 2 or 3 at his position, he's corrupt, he's not top ten. Hall of fame, yeah but with a big scarlet asterisk.

 

[bthaunert]

No, and I've stated that a few times. He is not one of Cal's top three centers and for a top ten list, that's where you gotta be, maybe even top two. Cal 'Hall of fame', yeah probably. The guy can play excellent basketball and clearly Cal likes him. He just made a mistake that you simply cannot make. So he's not top 2 or 3 at his position, he's corrupt, he's not top ten. Hall of fame, yeah but with a big scarlet asterisk.

That's where we disagree. I think Camby's junior season (basketball success only, nothing else) is the second most successcul season as a player under Cal, only behind AD, at a time when college basketball was loaded,

 

[kybassfan]

That's where we disagree. I think Camby's junior season (basketball success only, nothing else) is the second most successcul season as a player under Cal, only behind AD, at a time when college basketball was loaded,

Cousins would have killed him by the time he was a junior. Townes may have passed them both. Apples and oranges. Doesn't matter really, Camby disgraced himself.

 

[MWes11]

Cousins would have killed him by the time he was a junior. Townes may have passed them both. Apples and oranges. Doesn't matter really, Camby disgraced himself.

Why are you talking hypothetical? Did DeMarcus or Karl stay till their junior year? Am I missing something?

 

[W_Heisenberg]

If you thought the thread was ridiculous, then why the f%$ did you post in it?

Because someone has to change the direction of this place and call out nonsense...that's what leaders do.

Now get in line or get out of the way.

 

[kybassfan]

Why are you talking hypothetical? Did DeMarcus or Karl stay till their junior year? Am I missing something?

Why are you comparing corrupt juniors to Freshmen? Am I missing something?

 

[MWes11]

I'm comparing players that Cal coached in college and asking you to choose the best college players that he coached. If you can't see that Camby was one of the best college players, strictly college, that Cal coached, I can't help you out.

Is/was Derrick Rose "corrupt" to you?

 

[kybassfan]

I'm comparing players that Cal coached in college and asking you to choose the best college players that he coached. If you can't see that Camby was one of the best college players, strictly college, that Cal coached, I can't help you out.

Is/was Derrick Rose "corrupt" to you?

Do you enjoy asking essentially the same question over and over?

Rose: Yes.

If you can't see comparing Freshman to Juniors is stupid, I can't help you out. Either compare Cousins to Camby as Frosh or compare Camby when he was not eligible to Cousins second year NBA.

Camby was NOT in his top three centers.

Listen, I know you are trying to dismiss Camby's unethical behavior and rule breaking cause it doesn't support your position. If you think Cal needs cheaters to round out his top ten list, then that's something your are ok with. I am NOT. You are needing to compare Camby's Junior year to Cousin's first year because you can't make a case other wise. I understand that since Cousin's is a superior ball player and you are trying to contrive a reason to put Camby on the list, even though he cheated. I knew all this about you many posts ago. I DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU! I will not agree with you. I do NOT think Cal needs to resort to corrupt players to round out his top ten list.

What about my position do you not now understand? You make up what ever crap makes you happy. Make a list with all the cheaters you like. I could care less. I'm getting tired of answering the same BS over and over.

 

[MWes11]

Do you enjoy asking essentially the same question over and over?

Rose: Yes.

If you can't see comparing Freshman to Juniors is stupid, I can't help you out. Either compare Cousins to Camby as Frosh or compare Camby when he was not eligible to Cousins second year NBA.

Camby was NOT in his top three centers.

Listen, I know you are trying to dismiss Camby's unethical behavior and rule breaking cause it doesn't support your position. If you think Cal needs cheaters to round out his top ten list, then that's something your are ok with. I am NOT. You are needing to compare Camby's Junior year to Cousin's first year because you can't make a case other wise. I understand that since Cousin's is a superior ball player and you are trying to contrive a reason to put Camby on the list, even though he cheated. I knew all this about you many posts ago. I DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU! I will not agree with you. I do NOT think Cal needs to resort to corrupt players to round out his top ten list.

What about my position do you not now understand? You make up what ever crap makes you happy. Make a list with all the cheaters you like. I could care less. I'm getting tired of answering the same BS over and over.

If you can't see that college career means whole body of work while at college. I can't help you out. Camby was NPOY and first team all america. It's like you have some sort of personal vendetta against Camby like he has hurt you in the past. It's weird. But that is neither here nor there. Sporting News put him at the 2nd best player Cal has ever coached in college. That is just an FYI, of course.

But you are right. I won't change your opinion on this so I will stop. If you are so distraught and tired of answering questions, why have you continuously posted in this thread (25 times to be exact)? Seems like it is really grinding your gears haha.

 

[kybassfan]

If you can't see that college career means whole body of work while at college. I can't help you out. Camby was NPOY and first team all america. It's like you have some sort of personal vendetta against Camby like he has hurt you in the past. It's weird. But that is neither here nor there. Sporting News put him at the 2nd best player Cal has ever coached in college. That is just an FYI, of course.

But you are right. I won't change your opinion on this so I will stop. If you are so distraught and tired of answering questions, why have you continuously posted in this thread (25 times to be exact)? Seems like it is really grinding your gears haha.

If you can't see that comparing players when they are different ages is bogus I can't help you. You started with an answer and are trying to make up the question. Camby was the big dog on a team of also rans. Gave him the perfect stage. Cousins was a freshman on a team of superstars. Huge difference for anyone not totally biased. But then you are so much so that you ignore Camby's rule breaking.

Now, get over yourself. You are obviously obsessed, even going back to count my posts. I'll make this easy for you. You are right. Even if you are wrong you are right. On every answer you ever give in the future, you are right and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

And I don't think you will. Just so I don't bother you with facts in future, I'll put you on ignore so you won't be distressed.

 

[MWes11]

If you can't see that comparing players when they are different ages is bogus I can't help you. You started with an answer and are trying to make up the question. Camby was the big dog on a team of also rans. Gave him the perfect stage. Cousins was a freshman on a team of superstars. Huge difference for anyone not totally biased. But then you are so much so that you ignore Camby's rule breaking.

Now, get over yourself. You are obviously obsessed, even going back to count my posts. I'll make this easy for you. You are right. Even if you are wrong you are right. On every answer you ever give in the future, you are right and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

And I don't think you will. Just so I don't bother you with facts in future, I'll put you on ignore so you won't be distressed.

That's all I ever wanted, friend. As long as we are on the same page.

 

[bthaunert]

Cousins would have killed him by the time he was a junior.

That is not what we are comparing. I don't know why you keep referring to Cousins as a junior. We are comparing players who played under Calipari and who was the best of those players during their college careers. That could be 1, 2, 3 or 4 years. Cousins college body of work was 1 year. Obviously his best year was his freshman year. Camby's body of work was 3 years, and his best year was his junior year (I know, I know, he cheated). Freshman are compared to juniors and seniors all the time. Awards in college basketball pit different classes against one another every year. I can understand your take on Camby and not including him because of the fallout from taking money from agents. I don't agree with it, but I get that and understand leaving him off the team for that reason. I just struggle with how you can't grasp comparing two college players against one another, regardless of what year they were when the OP obviously stated we are going off of college career. If the OP would have said, to put together a top 5 based on how good they would have been had everyone stayed 3 or 4 years, then yes, Boogie would probably be ahead of Camby, but that's not what the OP said.

 

[MWes11]

That is not what we are comparing. I don't know why you keep referring to Cousins as a junior. We are comparing players who played under Calipari and who was the best of those players during their college careers. That could be 1, 2, 3 or 4 years. Cousins college body of work was 1 year. Obviously his best year was his freshman year. Camby's body of work was 3 years, and his best year was his junior year (I know, I know, he cheated). Freshman are compared to juniors and seniors all the time. Awards in college basketball pit different classes against one another every year. I can understand your take on Camby and not including him because of the fallout from taking money from agents. I don't agree with it, but I get that and understand leaving him off the team for that reason. I just struggle with how you can't grasp comparing two college players against one another, regardless of what year they were when the OP obviously stated we are going off of college career. If the OP would have said, to put together a top 5 based on how good they would have been had everyone stayed 3 or 4 years, then yes, Boogie would probably be ahead of Camby, but that's not what the OP said.

Don't waste your time. He doesn't get it. Doesn't seem to grasp the concept of my OP.

 

[Alumni Gym]

Do you enjoy asking essentially the same question over and over?

Rose: Yes.

If you can't see comparing Freshman to Juniors is stupid, I can't help you out. Either compare Cousins to Camby as Frosh or compare Camby when he was not eligible to Cousins second year NBA.

Camby was NOT in his top three centers.

Listen, I know you are trying to dismiss Camby's unethical behavior and rule breaking cause it doesn't support your position. If you think Cal needs cheaters to round out his top ten list, then that's something your are ok with. I am NOT. You are needing to compare Camby's Junior year to Cousin's first year because you can't make a case other wise. I understand that since Cousin's is a superior ball player and you are trying to contrive a reason to put Camby on the list, even though he cheated. I knew all this about you many posts ago. I DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU! I will not agree with you. I do NOT think Cal needs to resort to corrupt players to round out his top ten list.

What about my position do you not now understand? You make up what ever crap makes you happy. Make a list with all the cheaters you like. I could care less. I'm getting tired of answering the same BS over and over.

Dude, I like you, but did Camby kill your dog or steal your wife or something?

Fact is, he was one a hell of a college player, who only took money in his senior year in freaking March. Show me one kid who grew up poor, when approached by people that want to give him money for free, who wouldn't take it. Sure, it was a mistake, because it screwed other people that he cared about, but it didn't make him a monster or a complete cheater. Like I said, he was one hell of a college player and a good pro player. He's paid his dues for taking a few free bucks while poor. Get over it.

 

[kybassfan]

That is not what we are comparing. I don't know why you keep referring to Cousins as a junior. We are comparing players who played under Calipari and who was the best of those players during their college careers. That could be 1, 2, 3 or 4 years. Cousins college body of work was 1 year. Obviously his best year was his freshman year. Camby's body of work was 3 years, and his best year was his junior year (I know, I know, he cheated). Freshman are compared to juniors and seniors all the time. Awards in college basketball pit different classes against one another every year. I can understand your take on Camby and not including him because of the fallout from taking money from agents. I don't agree with it, but I get that and understand leaving him off the team for that reason. I just struggle with how you can't grasp comparing two college players against one another, regardless of what year they were when the OP obviously stated we are going off of college career. If the OP would have said, to put together a top 5 based on how good they would have been had everyone stayed 3 or 4 years, then yes, Boogie would probably be ahead of Camby, but that's not what the OP said.

No, that's not what YOU are comparing. The original post said this in the title:

Who Makes an All-Calipari Team? UMASS, Memphis, and UK.

Then the OP set about making a list. All of the qualifications you are contriving were added after the original post. An "All-Calipari" team would consist of his best players. Not just players that got to pad their stats with two years that others did not.

Then we got folks drawing conclusions about the best colleges players by comparing 18 yr olds to 20 yr olds, of which some of the later group couldn't even manage to remain eligible their final season. You want to compare apples to apples, compare Camby's first year where he was on a team of no names to Cousins first year among superstars or compared Camby's tainted third year to Cousins while playing in the NBA against orders of magnitude stronger competition.

Comparing a junior to a frosh is utter nonsense. I'm sorry, but if that's all this thread is doing, its a joke. That said, if you want to argue nonsense, don't let me stop you. Just don't be surprised when folks point out its utter nonsense. I'm saying the criteria are stupid and putting cheats on the list is insulting. I will concede your point. If you get to compare three years of Camby's play, two of which Camby was older (and one of which he cheated) and limit Cousins to one year, Camby might have scored more points or some other rather irrelevant stat. Like that is really insightful mind bending stuff (not), but whatever. Stand the two side by side at equivalent points in their career, and we both know which anybody that wanted to win a game would pick. Now who are you going to put on your top ten? The better player or the sentimental pick.

Now, that said, what about my position do you not understand? I'm stating an opinion. My reason for responding to this gibberish is to clarify my position. I think I've made it clear enough (25+ times according to one stalker). I don't intend to change it. Unless you want to afford me more opportunities to express how silly the question is that you are attempting to answer, I'd drop it if I were you.

Maybe you could start a thread like "Who were Calipari's Favorite players". Or "Who scored the most total points for Calipari regardless of cheating". Camby would be on those lists.

 

[Alumni Gym]

No, that's not what YOU are comparing. The original post said this in the title:

Who Makes an All-Calipari Team? UMASS, Memphis, and UK.

Then the OP set about making a list. All of the qualifications you are contriving were added after the original post. An "All-Calipari" team would consist of his best players. Not just players that got to pad their stats with two years that others did not.

Then we got folks drawing conclusions about the best colleges players by comparing 18 yr olds to 20 yr olds, of which some of the later group couldn't even manage to remain eligible their final season. You want to compare apples to apples, compare Camby's first year where he was on a team of no names to Cousins first year among superstars or compared Camby's tainted third year to Cousins while playing in the NBA against orders of magnitude stronger competition.

Comparing a junior to a frosh is utter nonsense. I'm sorry, but if that's all this thread is doing, its a joke. That said, if you want to argue nonsense, don't let me stop you. Just don't be surprised when folks point out its utter nonsense. I'm saying the criteria are stupid and putting cheats on the list is insulting. I will concede your point. If you get to compare three years of Camby's play, two of which Camby was older (and one of which he cheated) and limit Cousins to one year, Camby might have scored more points or some other rather irrelevant stat. Like that is really insightful mind bending stuff (not), but whatever. Stand the two side by side at equivalent points in their career, and we both know which anybody that wanted to win a game would pick. Now who are you going to put on your top ten? The better player or the sentimental pick.

Now, that said, what about my position do you not understand? I'm stating an opinion. My reason for responding to this gibberish is to clarify my position. I think I've made it clear enough (25+ times according to one stalker). I don't intend to change it. Unless you want to afford me more opportunities to express how silly the question is that you are attempting to answer, I'd drop it if I were you.

Maybe you could start a thread like "Who were Calipari's Favorite players". Or "Who scored the most total points for Calipari regardless of cheating". Camby would be on those lists.

Buddy, (and I love your UNC posts), Camby made one mistake, but he was a fantastic college player, in an era when college basketball was its toughest and best. The man payed back everything UMASS was fined, apologized to everyone over and over, still feels bad about it, and has been forgiven by everyone, except by you. He was a great college player, and certainly one of Calipari's best.

 

[kybassfan]

Dude, I like you, but did Camby kill your dog or steal your wife or something?

Fact is, he was one a hell of a college player, who only took money in his senior year in freaking March. Tell me a kid one kid who grew up poor, when approached by people who want to give you money for free, who wouldn't take it. Sure, it was a mistake, because it screwed other people that he cared about, but it didn't make him a monster or a complete cheater. Like I said, he was one hell of a college player and a good pro player. He's paid his dues for taking a few free bucks while poor. Get over it.

You know, AG, I've never said anything different. I've called Camby an excellent ball player. He's just not better than Cousins. Breaking eligibility rules is a bit like being pregnant. You either did or you didn't. If you did, then we're arguing about choice of words. Don't make him a monster, but then I never called him that. And we both know, we can't partially cheat. A convict is always a convict even after he's paid his debt. And yes, Camby did the right thing in the end but he did it none the less. Corruption and cheating are appropriate descriptions for the action taken by Camby. And nobody, Calipari himself, disputes the action taken.

One final point, I got nothing against Camby except that he was corrupt. He was the example chosen. We can have the same conversation about Rose. Both were "dishonorably discharged".

 

[kybassfan]

Buddy, (and I love your UNC posts), Camby made one mistake, but he was a fantastic college player, in an era when college basketball was its toughest and best. The man payed back everything UMASS was fined, apologized to everyone over and over, still feels bad about it, and has been forgiven by everyone, except by you. He was a great college player, and certainly one of Calipari's best.

Read what I said in the other response, but yeah, I've said nothing different. Yes, ignoring the fact that he couldn't maintain his eligibility, he was an excellent baller. He was not better than Davis, Towns or Cousins. At center, he was one of Cal's best, but not better than those three. Plus, he cheated. There's no forgiveness associated with that. I can't forgive him for that. Its a fact of life. He may be contrite but that really changes nothing. Ironically, based on what I've read about him, I think the person that counts most would be Camby. He's never back away from his action. If a current player went to him and said Its just a little money and I'm poor, I don't think Camby would say "take the money". I'm guessing he would say "Don't be an *fing* dumb ass".

 

[Alumni Gym]

You know, AG, I've never said anything different. I've called Camby an excellent ball player. He's just not better than Cousins. Breaking eligibility rules is a bit like being pregnant. You either did or you didn't. If you did, then we're arguing about choice of words. Don't make him a monster, but then I never called him that. And we both know, we can't partially cheat. A convict is always a convict even after he's paid his debt. And yes, Camby did the right thing in the end but he did it none the less. Corruption and cheating are appropriate descriptions for the action taken by Camby. And nobody, Calipari himself, disputes the action taken.

One final point, I got nothing against Camby except that he was corrupt. He was the example chosen. We can have the same conversation about Rose. Both were "dishonorably discharged".

One thing, Rose was actually never PROVEN to cheat. And yes, Camby made a mistake, but all young people do, especially if they are poor and some joker tricks them, and then hands them free money. And do not equate Camby to a convict. That's like comparing a white collar criminal to Hitler. It's just silly.

 

[MWes11]

One final point, I got nothing against Camby except that he was corrupt. He was the example chosen. We can have the same conversation about Rose. Both were "dishonorably discharged".

Derrick Rose does not equal corrupt. If anything, in the Rose case, the NCAA was corrupt. He was cleared twice by the clearinghouse and the NCAA which said he was eligible. He went on to star under Cal, leading his team to a National Championship birth (should've won). After the season ends the NCAA comes out and says we think (let me rephrase that WE THINK), with no actual proof whatsoever, that Rose did not take his SAT. The NCAA still has no actual proof that Rose didn't take the test. Rose didn't cooperate, therefore they punished Memphis/Cal taking away the victories.

Since you like talking hypothetical, would you call a player at UK "corrupt" if the exact same situation happened here? If so, you should put in an application to work for the NCAA. You would fit in well.

 

[W2R]

Calipari took umass from the bottom to the top. What he did with camby and role players was amazing. Camby was a force in An era of CBB that had some great teams. Sure you could plug other centers on that team and they would put up huge numbers but the fact is Camby took that team on his back and took them to number one . They gave arguably our best TEAM of all time one of their only losses. Camby was the main part of that. He was up for player of the year with some now legends in CBB. I love all of Caliparis players at uk. But Camby started it all for him. He loves that type of player. Look at what he recruits. Dozier, Lee, Noel, skal, Davis ect. He even said that when he first started recruiting Davis, that he had another Marcus Camby in the making.

 

[Alumni Gym]

Read what I said in the other response, but yeah, I've said nothing different. Yes, ignoring the fact that he couldn't maintain his eligibility, he was an excellent baller. He was not better than Davis, Towns or Cousins. At center, he was one of Cal's best, but not better than those three. Plus, he cheated. There's no forgiveness associated with that. I can't forgive him for that. Its a fact of life. He may be contrite but that really changes nothing. Ironically, based on what I've read about him, I think the person that counts most would be Camby. He's never back away from his action. If a current player went to him and said Its just a little money and I'm poor, I don't think Camby would say "take the money". I'm guessing he would say "Don't be an *fing* dumb ass".

So, let me get this, in your life, you can't forgive a loved one or a friend who makes a stupid mistake, even after they admit it, apologize for it, and then pay for it? You just hold it over their head forever?

Really, think about it this way: If a regular college student (who brought no revenue to the college or the NCAA) took 20 grand from some agent involved in his or her major, would you consider that immoral?

 

[kybassfan]

One thing, Rose was actually never PROVEN to cheat. And yes, Camby made a mistake, but all young people do, especially if they are poor and some joker tricks them, and then hands them free money. And do not equate Camby to a convict. That's like comparing a white collar criminal to Hitler. It's just silly.

And I don't think anything we were blamed for under Sutton was "proven". Welcome to the NCAA. No due process. Its the league we play in. I would change much about it. They don't ask me.

I did not equate Camby to a convict. I made that analogy to prove a point though I didn't really think you'd be the one proving it. You are reading what you want to read and that was the point. There are some bridges you can't uncross. Being a convict is one. Revoked eligibility is another. However, the unwary or unscrupulous reader would seize on that and suggest I was calling Camby a convict. In fact, I was not. And no, I don't think you are unscrupulous. Unwary, maybe so.

 

[Alumni Gym]

And I don't think anything we were blamed for under Sutton was "proven". Welcome to the NCAA. No due process. Its the league we play in. I would change much about it. They don't ask me.

I did not equate Camby to a convict. I made that analogy to prove a point though I didn't really think you'd be the one proving it. You are reading what you want to read and that was the point. There are some bridges you can't uncross. Being a convict is one. Revoked eligibility is another. However, the unwary or unscrupulous reader would seize on that and suggest I was calling Camby a convict. In fact, I was not. And no, I don't think you are unscrupulous. Unwary, maybe so.

I just don't like people playing the "morality" card when someone has paid the price. I don't even blame the players at UNC for all the bullcrap that happened down there. Hell, even a rabbit will take a free carrot if you dangle it in from of him. Camby is not evil, and IMO, was better than Towns to boot. He would give players fits in the game of college basketball being played today.

 

[kybassfan]

So, let me get this, in your life, you can't forgive a loved one or a friend who makes a stupid mistake, even after they admit it, apologize for it, and then pay for it? You just hold it over their head forever?

Really, think about it this way: If a regular college student (who brought no revenue to the college or the NCAA) took 20 grand from some agent involved in his or her major, would you consider that immoral?

Ok, let me give you another opportunity to misinterpret what I'm saying. A felon may not own a firearm. I have a good friend that is a felon. He carried a gun in his shoulder bag when he travels locally. He forgot and walked through an airport screening. I've long ago forgiven him. He is embarrassed and contrite. He has cried in front of his wife many times because this was a negative influence on his family. He is still a very good friend as he always was. I do not loan him weapons and I do not take him to the range even to watch.

Did I just call Camby a felon? You know I didn't. There are, however, some bridges you can't uncross. I dearly wish more of our young people understood that simple lesson. Some, unfortunately, have to pay Camby's price.

What does a regular college student have to do with NCAA rules and eligibility? Those of us that were student athletes know we were held to a different standard. It was the price we paid for the privilege to compete. You may not like that, but its the world.

Now drop this. Its gotten silly.

 

[CELTICAT]

Now drop this. Its gotten silly.

Says the guy with the indefensible position on one of the best college players ever.

 

[Alumni Gym]

Ok, let me give you another opportunity to misinterpret what I'm saying. A felon may not own a firearm. I have a good friend that is a felon. He carried a gun in his shoulder bag when he travels locally. He forgot and walked through an airport screening. I've long ago forgiven him. He is embarrassed and contrite. He has cried in front of his wife many times because this was a negative influence on his family. He is still a very good friend as he always was. I do not loan him weapons and I do not take him to the range even to watch.

Did I just call Camby a felon? You know I didn't. There are, however, some bridges you can't uncross. I dearly wish more of our young people understood that simple lesson. Some, unfortunately, have to pay Camby's price.

What does a regular college student have to do with NCAA rules and eligibility? Those of us that were student athletes know we were held to a different standard. It was the price we paid for the privilege to compete. You may not like that, but its the world.

Now drop this. Its gotten silly.

Not forgiving people when they pay for their mistakes is also silly. Might want to ask God about that one. There, I just caught up to you in the morality war.

You can think whatever you want, just like I think your friend just screwed up and the law should have not made him a felon. Sometimes PERSPECTIVE AND INTENT in a situation needs to be taken into account. Ask any judge, and they will tell you that.

I swear, you are acting like some wife that brings up something that her husband did 25 years ago, that really was no big deal. Camby, a young, poor kid, made a mistake, and got taken by an agent. Not against the law, either. Woo, hoo, big deal. He still played his guts out while on the court, visited hospitals constantly, worked in soup kitchens, and was a good teammate and student to boot. I'll give him a pass for being human, thank you.

 

[bthaunert]

No, that's not what YOU are comparing. The original post said this in the title:

Who Makes an All-Calipari Team? UMASS, Memphis, and UK.

Then the OP set about making a list. All of the qualifications you are contriving were added after the original post. An "All-Calipari" team would consist of his best players. Not just players that got to pad their stats with two years that others did not.

Then we got folks drawing conclusions about the best colleges players by comparing 18 yr olds to 20 yr olds, of which some of the later group couldn't even manage to remain eligible their final season. You want to compare apples to apples, compare Camby's first year where he was on a team of no names to Cousins first year among superstars or compared Camby's tainted third year to Cousins while playing in the NBA against orders of magnitude stronger competition.

Comparing a junior to a frosh is utter nonsense. I'm sorry, but if that's all this thread is doing, its a joke. That said, if you want to argue nonsense, don't let me stop you. Just don't be surprised when folks point out its utter nonsense. I'm saying the criteria are stupid and putting cheats on the list is insulting. I will concede your point. If you get to compare three years of Camby's play, two of which Camby was older (and one of which he cheated) and limit Cousins to one year, Camby might have scored more points or some other rather irrelevant stat. Like that is really insightful mind bending stuff (not), but whatever. Stand the two side by side at equivalent points in their career, and we both know which anybody that wanted to win a game would pick. Now who are you going to put on your top ten? The better player or the sentimental pick.

Now, that said, what about my position do you not understand? I'm stating an opinion. My reason for responding to this gibberish is to clarify my position. I think I've made it clear enough (25+ times according to one stalker). I don't intend to change it. Unless you want to afford me more opportunities to express how silly the question is that you are attempting to answer, I'd drop it if I were you.

Maybe you could start a thread like "Who were Calipari's Favorite players". Or "Who scored the most total points for Calipari regardless of cheating". Camby would be on those lists.

No, the OP set the qualifications by saying:

"Thought it would be interesting to see the 10 players you would choose from Cal's tenures at UMASS, Memphis and Kentucky. 5 starters and 5 reserves on the bench. This is strictly based on college performance and not NBA success. Who ya got?"

So, everyone else is comparing players strictly based on college performance as the OP set in the original post. If we are going strictly based on college performance as the OP said in his original post, we are going on one year of Demarcus Cousins and 3 years of Marcus Camby because that would be basing their worth strictly based on college performance.

If you wanna say Camby's college performance sucks because of his issues with agents, so be it, but I still don't know how you can argue, based off that criteria, how you can't compare Cousins one year to camby's three years strictly based on college performance.

If I am misinterpreting what he is saying by comparing Camby's college performance against Cousins college performance, let me know how I am doing that. Thanks.

 

[kybassfan]

No, the OP set the qualifications by saying:

If you wanna say Camby's college performance sucks because of his issues with agents, so be it, but I still don't know how you can argue, based off that criteria, how you can't compare Cousins one year to camby's three years strictly based on college performance.

Oops, I got the OP on ignore so I didn't see that he was the OP, my bad. Still, stupid question. Compare juniors and freshman. I'm not the only poster to point that out. I will say this, if Camby's performance at the end of three years didn't rival Cousin's in one, you really would look foolish now.

Ok, I'll admit you are correct and I've been wrong on everything I've said. However, you have to be able to do one thing. Show me the quote where I said Camby's sucks. In those words, exactly. That may be a difficult assignment. It is however, a reflection of your persistence in making stuff up to suit yourself. Camby is not in Calipari's top three centers. That statement DOES NOT imply he sucks. Hmmm. . . . .

I'm going to close this out with a little quote from someone that has a better insight to Marcus Camby than even coach Cal.

"Everything that happened was pretty much my fault. It was a tough time. Growing up, I didn't have much, and having people offer you things, I was pretty naïve and I succumbed to the pressure. I was young. I was very immature. And I felt I made a very, very bad decision.

"To this day, I feel like I took away from all the stuff we accomplished on the basketball court. It's something I'm going to have to carry with me for the rest of my career and the rest of my life. It's something I definitely regret."

-- Marcus Camby

You see, I did my homework before I started spewing off at the mouth. He holds himself accountable, even if you do not. He knows he diminished himself, his school and his team. He knows he can not uncross that bridge. I'd say he's grown into a man and accepts responsibility for his actions. He freely admits he broke the rules otherwise known as cheating, at least to those that can speak the English language.

I'm merely taking Camby at his word and he asked for no quarter.

 

[bthaunert]

Oops, I got the OP on ignore so I didn't see that he was the OP, my bad. Still, stupid question. Compare juniors and freshman. I'm not the only poster to point that out. I will say this, if Camby's performance at the end of three years didn't rival Cousin's in one, you really would look foolish now.

Ok, I'll admit you are correct and I've been wrong on everything I've said. However, you have to be able to do one thing. Show me the quote where I said Camby's sucks. In those words, exactly. That may be a difficult assignment. It is however, a reflection of your persistence in making stuff up to suit yourself. Camby is not in Calipari's top three centers. That statement DOES NOT imply he sucks. Hmmm. . . . .

I'm going to close this out with a little quote from someone that has a better insight to Marcus Camby than even coach Cal.

"Everything that happened was pretty much my fault. It was a tough time. Growing up, I didn't have much, and having people offer you things, I was pretty naïve and I succumbed to the pressure. I was young. I was very immature. And I felt I made a very, very bad decision.

"To this day, I feel like I took away from all the stuff we accomplished on the basketball court. It's something I'm going to have to carry with me for the rest of my career and the rest of my life. It's something I definitely regret."

-- Marcus Camby

You see, I did my homework before I started spewing off at the mouth. He holds himself accountable, even if you do not. He knows he diminished himself, his school and his team. He knows he can not uncross that bridge. I'd say he's grown into a man and accepts responsibility for his actions. He freely admits he broke the rules otherwise known as cheating, at least to those that can speak the English language.

I'm merely taking Camby at his word and he asked for no quarter.

Since I never once said you were saying Camby sucks, not sure why you want me to do that.

 

[kybassfan]

Not forgiving people when they pay for their mistakes is also silly. Might want to ask God about that one. There, I just caught up to you in the morality war.

You can think whatever you want, just like I think your friend just screwed up and the law should have not made him a felon. Sometimes PERSPECTIVE AND INTENT in a situation needs to be taken into account. Ask any judge, and they will tell you that.

I swear, you are acting like some wife that brings up something that her husband did 25 years ago, that really was no big deal. Camby, a young, poor kid, made a mistake, and got taken by an agent. Not against the law, either. Woo, hoo, big deal. He still played his guts out while on the court, visited hospitals constantly, worked in soup kitchens, and was a good teammate and student to boot. I'll give him a pass for being human, thank you.

AG, I can't help if you are pissed off at the world because it doesn't meet your expectations. Read the quote in my prior post from the one guy that knows Marcus Camby better than Cal. Better even than you, though you may think that's not possible. Sounds like Mr. Camby doesn't share your bleeding heart.

 

[kybassfan]

Since I never once said you were saying Camby sucks, not sure why you want me to do that.

Reading challenged much?

"If you wanna say Camby's college performance sucks because of his issues with agents, so be it" - - bthaunert

But I didn't want to say that did I? I didn't even imply that. In fact I said much to the contrary. I even called him an excellent ball player. I went so far as to say that he belonged in a "Calipari Hall of Fame" just not in his top ten. That's the truth. Now I know you just wanted to bluster to give yourself some small footing to argue on. I think that is very revealing into your view of integrity. Maybe it explains our different perspective on this topic.

 

[kybassfan]

So, we can agree that when you were saying that camby didn't have a junior year and that he didn't have any stats bc the seaosn never existed, that you thought they had to forfeit all of their wins?

Also, he didn't cost his team $150,000. It was the University who had to pay it back and Camby paid the University the $150,000 to make up for his mistake.

Also, I consider cheating as things that someone does to remain eligible or get an advantage. What the NCAA says Rose did is cheating. What Camby did was break a rule, but it's not cheating per say. It was a poor person that was taken advantage of by a couple of ###holes.

Lastly, without Marcus Camby, Cal never makes it past the Sweet Sixteen at UMass. If you were to ask Cal if he would trade having Marcus for what what happened at UMass, I can almost bet the answer would be taking Marcus and everything that followed.

Again, your lack of inhibition for distorting the truth comes out.

The university was, in fact, the responsible entity for the fine. Camby made an offsetting donation after the fact. However, the fine was assessed against the university.

My sincere apologies. My dictionary says Websters on the front. I'll look for one that said bthaunert next one I buy. Are they hard to find? Till I get one, I'll have to resort to the English language, even for complicated concepts like cheating.

And now you change the game yet again. Camby should be on the list because he was Cal's sentimental favorite. And you know Cal so well you can put words in his mouth. Maybe you can point out where he named Camby as one of his top three centers. Or, if he didn't say that you can tell him to. Or maybe you can just say he said it regardless. Not much difference for you.

Are you getting the impression I'm going to change my opinion regarding Camby? Is that why you continue this? You are enjoying some success. My opinion of you is quite different than it was before.

 

[Alumni Gym]

AG, I can't help if you are pissed off at the world because it doesn't meet your expectations. Read the quote in my prior post from the one guy that knows Marcus Camby better than Cal. Better even than you, though you may think that's not possible. Sounds like Mr. Camby doesn't share your bleeding heart.

It sure sounds like neither God, nor I, shares your hardened heart, either. You think what you want to think. I just hope that if you ever make a stupid mistake, based on upon need, people will forgive you someday.

This was a young man who broke no laws, was poor, and got involved (and tricked) by some guy who walked up to him and offered him money. Even so, he still played his ass off, has been very contrite and sorry, has gotten forgiveness from all his coaches and team-mates, has paid everything back, and is the guy that is largely responsible for Coach Cal's career path (much like Mashburn was for Pitino). And no,Towns (as of yet) has NOT proven that he was a better center than Camby, and he certainly wasn't a better college player.

The question was about Cal's college players anyway.

I'm cool with people getting punished for what they do. That's exactly why I have a problem with the UNC crap. But to ridicule a guy who has made amends over and over is just wrong. Marcus Camby was a GREAT college player. Tell you what, call up Coach Cal and tell him your opinion. You might not exactly like his reaction. It would probably involve some four letter words.

 

[bthaunert]

Reading challenged much?

"If you wanna say Camby's college performance sucks because of his issues with agents, so be it" - - bthaunert

But I didn't want to say that did I? I didn't even imply that. In fact I said much to the contrary. I even called him an excellent ball player. I went so far as to say that he belonged in a "Calipari Hall of Fame" just not in his top ten. That's the truth. Now I know you just wanted to bluster to give yourself some small footing to argue on. I think that is very revealing into your view of integrity. Maybe it explains our different perspective on this topic.

I was never implying that you thought Camby sucked, although I can see why you would read it that way. I was implying that you don't consider him in the conversation because of his dealings with agents.

You're getting deep with the integrity talk here!

 

[bthaunert]

Again, your lack of inhibition for distorting the truth comes out.

The university was, in fact, the responsible entity for the fine. Camby made an offsetting donation after the fact. However, the fine was assessed against the university.

My sincere apologies. My dictionary says Websters on the front. I'll look for one that said bthaunert next one I buy. Are they hard to find? Till I get one, I'll have to resort to the English language, even for complicated concepts like cheating.

And now you change the game yet again. Camby should be on the list because he was Cal's sentimental favorite. And you know Cal so well you can put words in his mouth. Maybe you can point out where he named Camby as one of his top three centers. Or, if he didn't say that you can tell him to. Or maybe you can just say he said it regardless. Not much difference for you.

Are you getting the impression I'm going to change my opinion regarding Camby? Is that why you continue this? You are enjoying some success. My opinion of you is quite different than it was before.

Not getting the impression that you're going to change your mind at all. It's a message board, we both have our opinions. I enjoy bantering back and forth and never take this stuff serious, as it's just fun to have different view points.

As far as Cal naming Camby one of his top three centers, I am not sure he has ever said anyone is one of his top three centers, etc. I don't believe that I ever said that Cal said he was one of his top 3 centers. I was just saying, imo, Cal would take Camby at UMass all over again with the same ending rather than not have him at all. If I said Cal had him as a top 3 center, please show me, I'd enjoy seeing it.

I did say the University was responsible for the fine. My quote was, "Also, he didn't cost his team $150,000. It was the University who had to pay it back". I was referring to "his team" as fellow players and was just making the comment that they didn't lose money, it was the University. So, we are on the same page in that one.

Out of curiousity, I looked up cheating in the Websters dictionary and it says the following:
- to break a rule or law usually to gain an advantage at something
- to take something from (someone) by lying or breaking a rule
- to prevent (someone) from having something that he or she deserves or was expecting to get

I talked about cheating, imo, as doing something to gain an advantage. So, no need to buy my dictionary.

Again, this is all in fun for me. I enjoy the different viewpoints, and never resort to name calling, etc. of other posters.

 

[kybassfan]

I was never implying that you thought Camby sucked, although I can see why you would read it that way. I was implying that you don't consider him in the conversation because of his dealings with agents.

You're getting deep with the integrity talk here!

I just go where I'm led. You led me to integrity.

I'm going to expound on an item you brought up which is far more important than Camby. If somebody says you aren't the best. They aren't saying, implying or otherwise suggesting that you suck. Camby is a formidable basketball player. His problem is that Cal has a freaking unbelievable stable of formidable players. Saying one of those formidable players is below a line, particularly such a poorly described line and idiotic line as this one, does not imply they suck. Why is it that people interpret this as such?

Here is where this becomes important. You give a kid a C these days and they quit in the classroom. If they don't get an A, they think they suck. This attitude is killing us for STEM degrees because kids quit rather than tough out the degree. Its more common among the younger generation. It really bothers me.

So, bthaunert, I'm gonna tell you two things. In this one respect, your attitude sucks. Second thing, and I really wish this wasn't true, you are in the majority. I'm afraid a lot of folks would interpret any statement I made where I didn't swear that Camby wasn't Gods gift to basketball as Camby sucks. And that is a real problem.

So, the bottom line is that Camby is not one of Cal's top ten players unless one contrives some really stilted and stupid measure such as sitting three years against one. Further, I stand by my assertion that Camby cheated, as Mr Webster's defines the word, and that is disqualifying on ethical grounds alone. Mr. Camby does NOT suck. Further, he's grown into enough of a man that he realizes that less than first does not equal failure and that some debts can't be repaid. An important lesson, don't you think?

Oh, and one other thing, your answering faster than I can type, so let me answer another post you made. The penalty, was in fact, assessed against UMASS. The penalty was paid by UMASS. Camby paid UMASS money he did not owe to ease his conscience. That doesn't negate who was fined and who paid. Its rather like if you get a speeding ticket. (No, I'm not saying Camby got a speeding ticket.) You pay the ticket. Then your daddy pays you back because you can do no wrong or whatever other reason. That doesn't transfer the fine to him or the infraction to him. Its still your ticket. Its still your fine. In this case Camby did the crime, UMASS did the fine. That is just the facts.

And Camby did take something and broke a rule in doing so. Then he covered it up for a time, aka lied. Camby himself has admitted to all the criteria outlined by the definition. He cheated, by the very definition you posted. I use my words. I know what they mean. You should know that by now.

 

[bthaunert]

So, bthaunert, I'm gonna tell you two things. In this one respect, your attitude sucks.

I guess we will end it right here. Not into discussions that go this direction.