Who Makes an All-Calipari Team? UMASS, Memphis, and UK.

[Son_Of_Saul]

I know and I'm not trying to be a butt, however you're comparing apples and oranges any way you look at it. Compare their freshman seasons, Cousins was better. Project Cousins to his junior year and he'd still be better.

Your opinion on Cousins is perfectly reasonable, but I'm not sure why you even feel inclined to defend it. You asked why anyone would pick Camby over Cousins. Some reasons were given as to why someone might feel that way. That's all. You were, after all, the person who originally asked the question as to why anyone would pick Camby.

 

[kybassfan]

I cited Camby's sophomore year as well.

As someone pointed out, Camby had little supporting cast. He had to score or they had nothing. I assure you his coach at the time knew that. Cousins had a very strong supporting cast. He was not required to score as the team was far better balanced. That's one of the fallacies of putting far too much emphasis on scoring as a measure of basketball skill. I seem to recall a young man winning the final four MVP in 2012 that failed to score in one game. He was pretty damn valuable.

Camby's basketball abilities were excellent. They did not exceed the three Kentucky players I listed. Plus, Camby was a cheat and a disgrace. To this day he's thrown in Calipari's face every time some media hack wants to go Tipton on Cal or the program. He does not belong on these lists.

 

[bthaunert]

Some of you guys are killing me in this thread. The OP was very specific that we're comparing college performance only. So the question is, would you take Camby as a junior or Cousins as a freshman. That is what we're comparing. We're not comparing what they both did as freshman, we are comparing them as college players. We're not comparing what Cousins could have been as a junior, because je never was a junior. When you compare the 2 of them in college, Camby's best year (junior year) was better than Cousins freshman year.

Also, this "what junior year thing". You do realize that 32 of those 37 games still count, right? So this idea that he didn't play or didn't get stats his junior year is wrong. Every one of his regular season games still stand in the record books. It's the NCAA tournament games that don't count. He was the best player in college basketball that year in a loaded season.

 

[kentucky_wildcat_#1]

I would go with C-Cousins
PF-Davis
SF- Camby
SG- Rose
PG-Wall

Not much shooting, but with this group, I feel it's the most talented of any. I wanted to put MkG in the starting lineup, but could you imagine how tough it would be to stop a backcourt of Wall and Rose? With Davis and Camby on the floor at the same time, Cousins wouldn't even have to play defense. Davis and Camby Erase everything. The rest of my team would go...

SF- MKG
PG-Knight
PF-Jones
SG-Douglas Roberts
C-Skal
PG-Bledsoe
SG-Lamb

Some might question putting Skal on there, but after this season is over, most will agree with the pick.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Camby's basketball abilities were excellent. They did not exceed the three Kentucky players I listed. .

In my opinion, Camby as a junior > Cousins as a frosh. That's not only my opinion, but the opinion of many others in this thread. You have your respectable opinion for the reasons why you disregard Camby and Rose and I can appreciate that while disagreeing.

Feel free to maintain your opinion. I'll maintain mine and life will go on.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

I would go with C-Cousins
PF-Davis
SF- Camby
SG- Rose
PG-Wall

Not much shooting, but with this group, I feel it's the most talented of any. I wanted to put MkG in the starting lineup, but could you imagine how tough it would be to stop a backcourt of Wall and Rose? With Davis and Camby on the floor at the same time, Cousins wouldn't even have to play defense. Davis and Camby Erase everything. The rest of my team would go...

SF- MKG
PG-Knight
PF-Jones
SG-Douglas Roberts
C-Skal
PG-Bledsoe
SG-Lamb

Some might question putting Skal on there, but after this season is over, most will agree with the pick.

If Cal lands Bridges and Monk in this class, it will just add to his overall dominance of every position, including the coveted wing position (where he has noticeably lacked landing some guys).

If he pulls it off, he'll have a career track record of Evans, CDR, MKG, Bridges, Murray, Young, Booker, Liggins, Monk, Lamb, and Aaron on the wing. That's a pretty solid collection of wing players. I'm hoping his next 5 or 6 years are years where he continues to load up on elite wing players.

 

[kybassfan]

In my opinion, Camby as a junior > Cousins as a frosh. That's not only my opinion, but the opinion of many others in this thread. You have your respectable opinion for the reasons why you disregard Camby and Rose and I can appreciate that while disagreeing.

Feel free to maintain your opinion. I'll maintain mine and life will go on.

Camby cost his team nearly $152000 his junior year. His team record was expunged from the tournament. He is a public embarrassment to his coach to this day. He is to UMass what Eddie Sutton is to Kentucky. He has publically admitted his shame.

If you consider that to exceed what Cousins accomplished, then your opinion of Cousin's is very low.

 

[kybassfan]

Some of you guys are killing me in this thread. The OP was very specific that we're comparing college performance only. So the question is, would you take Camby as a junior or Cousins as a freshman. That is what we're comparing. We're not comparing what they both did as freshman, we are comparing them as college players. We're not comparing what Cousins could have been as a junior, because je never was a junior. When you compare the 2 of them in college, Camby's best year (junior year) was better than Cousins freshman year.

Also, this "what junior year thing". You do realize that 32 of those 37 games still count, right? So this idea that he didn't play or didn't get stats his junior year is wrong. Every one of his regular season games still stand in the record books. It's the NCAA tournament games that don't count. He was the best player in college basketball that year in a loaded season.

That was just what they chose as a penalty. The exact point in time where Camby's cheating began was never revealed to my knowledge. If you think a stinking cheater belongs on Cal's best player list, go ahead. He's still a stinking cheater. He will always be a stinking cheater. He has admitted to being a stinking cheater.

If you take Camby as a Junior, you are choosing disqualification. At lease Cousins was eligible.

Cal deserves better.

 

[WildMoon]

cheating. lol

 

[bthaunert]

So, we can agree that when you were saying that camby didn't have a junior year and that he didn't have any stats bc the seaosn never existed, that you thought they had to forfeit all of their wins?

Also, he didn't cost his team $150,000. It was the University who had to pay it back and Camby paid the University the $150,000 to make up for his mistake.

Also, I consider cheating as things that someone does to remain eligible or get an advantage. What the NCAA says Rose did is cheating. What Camby did was break a rule, but it's not cheating per say. It was a poor person that was taken advantage of by a couple of ###holes.

Lastly, without Marcus Camby, Cal never makes it past the Sweet Sixteen at UMass. If you were to ask Cal if he would trade having Marcus for what what happened at UMass, I can almost bet the answer would be taking Marcus and everything that followed.

 

[kybassfan]

Broke the rules. Accepted money as an amateur. Resulted in a fine to his school. Voided his eligibility. Admitted to all of the above. Felt so bad that he paid a fine not assessed to him. He IS a cheater.

Maybe it depends on your definition of IS.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Broke the rules. Accepted money as an amateur. Resulted in a fine to his school. Voided his eligibility. Admitted to all of the above. Felt so bad that he paid a fine not assessed to him. He IS a cheater.

Maybe it depends on your definition of IS.

We get it, you negated those guys because you are citing their ineligibility. It's a respectable position to have, but some people are looking at the sheer basketball ability and comparing that ability - as presented by the OP.

 

[kybassfan]

We get it, you negated those guys because you are citing their ineligibility. It's a respectable position to have, but some people are looking at the sheer basketball ability and comparing that ability - as presented by the OP.

Actually, the OP asked to not consider NBA performance. He didn't say anything about ignoring cheating on the part of Camby and Rose. You want to applaud unscrupulous behavior fine. I just refuse to acknowledge cheats among Capliari's best, particularly when the statistical comparison between a junior and freshman is a dubious measure of "ability". Put cheats on a "best of" Calipari players list is shameful.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Actually, the OP asked to not consider NBA performance. He didn't say anything about ignoring cheating on the part of Camby and Rose. You want to applaud unscrupulous behavior fine. I just refuse to acknowledge cheats among Capliari's best, particularly when the statistical comparison between a junior and freshman is a dubious measure of "ability". Put cheats on a "best of" Calipari players list is shameful.

Except Cal not only acknowledges both of them, but looks to them as main talking points for players who were deeply and positively impactful to his coaching career. He called Camby one of his most important recruits at his HOF induction, and he frequently talks about both Rose and Camby with love and admiration.


So you might as well tell Cal to stop counting them, because at last mark, he still does count them. It appears the criteria you have made is one few others, including Cal, actually share.

 

[kybassfan]

Except Cal not only acknowledges both of them, but looks to them as main talking points for players who were deeply and positively impactful to his coaching career. He called Camby one of his most important recruits at his HOF induction, and he frequently talks about both Rose and Camby with love and admiration.


So you might as well tell Cal to stop counting them, because at last mark, he still does count them. It appears the criteria you have made is one few others, including Cal, actually share.

I'm confused, where was Cal's list on this thread? And where did the OP insist that Cal's personal favorites should factor into their 'ability'. Apples and oranges.

If you are going to count cheating players and compare junior stats with Freshman as some bogus measure of "ability", I'll put Enes Kanter in the mix.

Camby put up numbers because that team was a one trick pony. He simply was not the center that Davis, Towns or Cousins was. If we're going to reward ineligible players, then I'm not sure Camby even surpassed Kanter.

It's simple. Camby is not in Cal's top three centers. Camby is also a cheat by his own admission. Excellent ball player and may be a fine person now but it's is disgraceful to suggest he merits a mention on Cal's best. You want to condone such behavior, fine. I refuse to.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

I'm confused, where was Cal's list on this thread? And where did the OP insist that Cal's personal favorites should factor into their 'ability'. Apples and oranges.

If you are going to count cheating players and compare junior stats with Freshman as some bogus measure of "ability", I'll put Enes Kanter in the mix.

Camby put up numbers because that team was a one trick pony. He simply was not the center that Davis, Towns or Cousins was. If we're going to reward ineligible players, then I'm not sure Camby even surpassed Kanter.

It's simple. Camby is not in Cal's top three centers. Camby is also a cheat by his own admission. Excellent ball player and may be a fine person now but it's is disgraceful to suggest he merits a mention on Cal's best. You want to condone such behavior, fine. I refuse to.

"Camby put up numbers because that team was a one trick pony. He simply was not the center that Davis, Towns or Cousins was."

You see, that's your opinion, not everyone else's, so there's that. If you lived in a world where your opinion could dictate everyone else's, you might be onto something, but you don't. It's also crooked logic to negate a guy for his lack of NBA players on his team when that same player led those teams to an Elite Eight and a Final Four, something Cousins and 7 other NBA players could barely do. I have my opinion, based on Camby's actual college ability. I don't condone his cheating, but I do think he was a better college players than Cousins. I think Cousins is the far superior player when comparing NBA and college.



"I'm confused, where was Cal's list on this thread? And where did the OP insist that Cal's personal favorites should factor into their 'ability'. Apples and oranges."

This is the quote that baffles me. You basically implied that anyone who cites Camby's college accomplishments in a positive way "condones" his cheating, and yet when it was pointed out that Calipari does just that, you suddenly change the argument again and now you're confused?

 

[Hoskins91]

Camby should be on the team, period.

 

[kybassfan]

"Camby put up numbers because that team was a one trick pony. He simply was not the center that Davis, Towns or Cousins was."

You see, that's your opinion, not everyone else's, so there's that. If you lived in a world where your opinion could dictate everyone else's, you might be onto something, but you don't. It's also crooked logic to negate a guy for his lack of NBA players on his team when that same player led those teams to an Elite Eight and a Final Four, something Cousins and 7 other NBA players could barely do. I have my opinion, based on Camby's actual college ability. I don't condone his cheating, but I do think he was a better college players than Cousins. I think Cousins is the far superior player when comparing NBA and college.



"I'm confused, where was Cal's list on this thread? And where did the OP insist that Cal's personal favorites should factor into their 'ability'. Apples and oranges."

This is the quote that baffles me. You basically implied that anyone who cites Camby's college accomplishments in a positive way "condones" his cheating, and yet when it was pointed out that Calipari does just that, you suddenly change the argument again and now you're confused?

So using your logic both Harrison's belongs on the list before Rose. Two straight final fours and neither cheated.

Regarding my "confusion" you should turn up that sarcasm detector. Cal's comments had nothing to do with his ten best players in the context of this thread. I was making fun of your use of that info out of context.

And yes, anyone that puts Camby on a Cal top ten list turns a blind eye to such unscrupulous behavior. That's not subscribing to the histrionics you suggest. As I have stated, REPEATEDLY, he was an excellent ball player. However he lacks both the body of work and ethical foundation to be on Cal's list of top players. If you think Cal has to resort to a cheater to compile a list of his top players, shame on you!

I REFUSE!

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

And yes, anyone that puts Camby on a Cal top ten list turns a blind eye to such unscrupulous behavior. That's not subscribing to the histrionics you suggest. As I have stated, REPEATEDLY, he was an excellent ball player. However he lacks both the body of work and ethical foundation to be on Cal's list of top players. If you think Cal has to resort to a cheater to compile a list of his top players, shame on you!

I REFUSE!

Sir, with all due respect, it appears you're scolding anonymous message board posters regarding ideologies they don't even posses. I made it clear that I'm not talking morality when it comes to Camby, but only basketball success while in college. It seems like you're creating arguments for this discussion in order to maintain some sort of moral high ground, giving me ideological positions I don't even have in order to amp up your point. That a curious thing.

The interesting thing here is that you're not on a crusade to personally attack other posters in regards to Rose. Rose made almost every single list in this thread. Do all the people who placed Rose on their lists advocate cheating? You're also ignoring, repeatedly, the fact that Cal invited Camby to his HOF induction and that Cal cited Camby as one of the most important recruits he ever coached and someone who changed the culture at UMass.

Here's a part from a Sporting News article:
Then someone asked about the impact Marcus Camby had on his career. When Calipari was coaching Massachusetts, Camby was his first true superstar recruit and became the unanimous 1996 national player of the year and the foundation of his first Final Four team, the only one in UMass history.

“I thank him for what he’s done for me and my family. Every time. And, uh …”

Calipari’s voice broke. He was speechless. Not only could he not finish his next sentence, he couldn’t even really start it.

Why he would cite Camby, a known cheater, as his first superstar and foundational piece to his coaching career, is interesting. Maybe he realizes that Camby paid back the money, publically admitted his mistake, and personally apologized to Calipari, his family and his school for the mistake he made as a teenager, one you're obviously not willing to forgive as a grown man.


As for your comment about the Harrisons, if either of them had been national player of the year, almost single-handedly led their team to an Elite Eight and a Final Four, been the #2 overall pick in the third most loaded draft in history, and led one of the worst programs in the northeast to national prominence and an overall #1 ranking, then yes, you might have made a solid comparison there.

 

[TUL]

Davis
Camby
MKG
Knight
Wall

Rose and Cousins are HARD to leave off. But I think Rose is a bit "tainted" by his NBA success (tainted in that the OP said this shouldn't include league stuff) and Cousins... Well, just had to pick between him and Camby.

Interesting that Knight is likely the best option at SG.

Huge fan of MKG.

 

[kybassfan]

Sir, with all due respect, it appears you're scolding anonymous message board posters regarding ideologies they don't even posses. I made it clear that I'm not talking morality when it comes to Camby, but only basketball success while in college. It seems like you're creating arguments for this discussion in order to maintain some sort of moral high ground, giving me ideological positions I don't even have in order to amp up your point. That a curious thing.

The interesting thing here is that you're not on a crusade to personally attack other posters in regards to Rose. Rose made almost every single list in this thread. Do all the people who placed Rose on their lists advocate cheating? You're also ignoring, repeatedly, the fact that Cal invited Camby to his HOF induction and that Cal cited Camby as one of the most important recruits he ever coached and someone who changed the culture at UMass.

Here's a part from a Sporting News article:
Then someone asked about the impact Marcus Camby had on his career. When Calipari was coaching Massachusetts, Camby was his first true superstar recruit and became the unanimous 1996 national player of the year and the foundation of his first Final Four team, the only one in UMass history.

“I thank him for what he’s done for me and my family. Every time. And, uh …”

Calipari’s voice broke. He was speechless. Not only could he not finish his next sentence, he couldn’t even really start it.

Why he would cite Camby, a known cheater, as his first superstar and foundational piece to his coaching career, is interesting. Maybe he realizes that Camby paid back the money, publically admitted his mistake, and personally apologized to Calipari, his family and his school for the mistake he made as a teenager, one you're obviously not willing to forgive as a grown man.


As for your comment about the Harrisons, if either of them had been national player of the year, almost single-handedly led their team to an Elite Eight and a Final Four, been the #2 overall pick in the third most loaded draft in history, and led one of the worst programs in the northeast to national prominence and an overall #1 ranking, then yes, you might have made a solid comparison there.

Listen, we're never going to agree. You think Calipari needs cheaters on his list, maybe for sentimental reasons, I don't know. You arbitrarily use a criteria for one player, then make up an excuse not to use it for another. I think Calipari's best ten doesn't include cheaters, even if he said one was his first superstar (notice he didn't say best). I agree with Cal by the way and I have repeatedly stated Camby was an excellent baller. Cal has never stated to my knowledge that Camby was one of his top three centers, despite your efforts to insinuate that.

You are willing to accept corruption in compiling the list. I am not. I will not change your mind and your sure as hell won't change mine. My original post stated that both Rose and Camby should NOT be on the list. Their corruption was disqualifying. Nor do I think that either was in a list of his top ten players. I stand by that assertion.

So it's simple as that. You think he needs those tainted players to make up a 'best of' list. I refuse to accept that. I suppose that's the difference between us. End of discussion.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

STARTERS
Lou Roe
Edgar Padilla
Donta Bright
Marcus Camby
Derrick Rose

BENCH
Tyreke Evans
CDR
Rodney Carney
Shawn Williams
Terrence Jones

You can't possibly be serious. I always wondered about you, but now I think you are just trolling on this board. Only way you could possibly be serious is if you were not a true UK fan or just trolling for laughs.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

I'm confused, where was Cal's list on this thread? And where did the OP insist that Cal's personal favorites should factor into their 'ability'. Apples and oranges.

If you are going to count cheating players and compare junior stats with Freshman as some bogus measure of "ability", I'll put Enes Kanter in the mix.
.

Um, how exactly did Kanter "cheat"?

 

[kybassfan]

Um, how exactly did Kanter "cheat"?

He didn't. Bad phrasing on my part. Kanter was ineligible. I thought since we have a contingent that thinks Cal must have corrupt ineligible players to make up his top ten, then surely we should consider non-corrupt ineligible players.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

You can't possibly be serious. I always wondered about you, but now I think you are just trolling on this board. Only way you could possibly be serious is if you were not a true UK fan or just trolling for laughs.

I am a UK fan, no doubt about that. Well, in your mind I suppose there is doubt but BFD, that's your problem.

Explaining oneself is extremely lame, but for this board it's warranted I suppose. I posted what I posted because my response is no more ridiculous than this topic.

 

[rabidcatfan]

PG - Derrick Rose
SG - Brandon Knight
SF - Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
PF - Anthony Davis
C - Marcus Camby

Bench -
Karl Towns
Demarcus Cousins
John Wall
Tyreke Evans
Chris Douglas-Roberts
Eric Bledsoe
Terrence Jones

 

[Hoskins91]

He didn't. Bad phrasing on my part. Kanter was ineligible. I thought since we have a contingent that thinks Cal must have corrupt ineligible players to make up his top ten, then surely we should consider non-corrupt ineligible players.

Kanter never played. You're adding a lot of irrelevant and pointless qualifiers to an easy decision. This is about who was better in college, and that's easily Camby. Is part of the reason because Cousins left early? Sure, and I'm sure people would agree with you if you said Cousins has become the better player. That's not what we're talking about here.

 

[kybassfan]

Kanter never played. You're adding a lot of irrelevant and pointless qualifiers to an easy decision. This is about who was better in college, and that's easily Camby. Is part of the reason because Cousins left early? Sure, and I'm sure people would agree with you if you said Cousins has become the better player. That's not what we're talking about here.

No what we're talking about here is him cheating, getting ruled ineligible and people, like yourself, ignoring that. It happened while it he was in college. That makes it relevant. Cal may love the guy like a son, but he was NOT one of Cal's top three centers.

As I said to the other guy, you think Cal needs a cheat to round out his top ten list, knock yourself out. I refuse.

 

[MWes11]

No what we're talking about here is him cheating, getting ruled ineligible and people, like yourself, ignoring that. It happened while it he was in college. That makes it relevant. Cal may love the guy like a son, but he was NOT one of Cal's top three centers.

As I said to the other guy, you think Cal needs a cheat to round out his top ten list, knock yourself out. I refuse.

Cal would absolutely disagree with you on this.

 

[kybassfan]

Cal would absolutely disagree with you on this.

Possibly. I'm not trying to predict what Cal would or wouldn't say. The kid was corrupt. He doesn't belong on the list in my opinion. Further, it's not clear that he even is in the top three centers.

 

[MWes11]

Possibly. I'm not trying to predict what Cal would or wouldn't say. The kid was corrupt. He doesn't belong on the list in my opinion. Further, it's not clear that he even is in the top three centers.

Obviously not gonna change your opinion on Camby. As far as Rose, he was cleared twice by the NCAA to play, only to have them overturn their decision after the year was over because they "think" he didn't take his SAT. He absolutely should make the list. And you are using the work Corrupt a lot. Just curious as to your thoughts on John Wall being suspended 2 games for $800 incurred on expenses while on unofficial visits and being cited for breaking and entering? Is he corrupt to you, too?

 

[Hoskins91]

Possibly. I'm not trying to predict what Cal would or wouldn't say. The kid was corrupt. He doesn't belong on the list in my opinion. Further, it's not clear that he even is in the top three centers.

The fact that you are much more offended by it than he is doesn't raise a red flag?

 

[RondoBaller21]

Camby is no Cousins. Put Cousins on a crappy team where he's first option, and he'd average more than Camby.

 

[kybassfan]

Obviously not gonna change your opinion on Camby. As far as Rose, he was cleared twice by the NCAA to play, only to have them overturn their decision after the year was over because they "think" he didn't take his SAT. He absolutely should make the list. And you are using the work Corrupt a lot. Just curious as to your thoughts on John Wall being suspended 2 games for $800 incurred on expenses while on unofficial visits and being cited for breaking and entering? Is he corrupt to you, too?

Not sure what Rose's issue with SATs has to do with the confusion over Wall's expenses. Well, I am sure actually, nothing. Wall's situation had much more in common with Kanter's issues. The breaking and entering had nothing to do with NCAA rules on testing or accepting money from an agent. I think you'll find his record clean as well on those counts. Good try though.

 

[kybassfan]

The fact that you are much more offended by it than he is doesn't raise a red flag?

No.

 

[kybassfan]

Camby is no Cousins. Put Cousins on a crappy team where he's first option, and he'd average more than Camby.

Clearly!

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

I am a UK fan, no doubt about that. Well, in your mind I suppose there is doubt but BFD, that's your problem.

Explaining oneself is extremely lame, but for this board it's warranted I suppose. I posted what I posted because my response is no more ridiculous than this topic.

If you thought the thread was ridiculous, then why the f%$ did you post in it?

 

[Hoskins91]

No.

It should.

 

[kybassfan]

It should.

It doesn't. It shouldn't. Its rather silly to even think he'd care. Only red flag I see is you trying to create an issue where none exits. I think we know why that is.

Cal has said good things about Camby. I've heard him say Camby was a very good ball player. I've heard that he even called him a superstar. I don't disagree with any of that.

I've never heard him call Camby one of his top three centers. I've never heard him say that Camby didn't commit the infraction for which he was ruled ineligible or that the school was heavily penalized for. I stand by what I've said. Camby doesn't deserve to be on a top ten list of his former players. Neither does Rose. Oh, and I'm not offended. I'm just stating that that Camby doesn't belong on the list.

Only red you are seeing is in the mirror. I think maybe you are the one offended because someone doesn't agree with you.

 

[bthaunert]

Not sure what Rose's issue with SATs has to do with the confusion over Wall's expenses. Well, I am sure actually, nothing. Wall's situation had much more in common with Kanter's issues. The breaking and entering had nothing to do with NCAA rules on testing or accepting money from an agent. I think you'll find his record clean as well on those counts. Good try though.

Actually, Wall was suspended by the NCAA for "cheating" as you would say.