Weren't there rumors that Joe B Hall stepping down after 1985 was not entirely his own choice?

[Estil]

Maybe some of you who were around at the time could help me out here (I was born in 1980 and didn't really start to seriously follow UK basketball or even sports in general really until I was around 13-15ish or so). As we all know, Joe B. Hall stepped down as our coach after the 1985 season. Now while the past several years he has been our beloved "elder stateman/ambassador" of sorts, apparently when he was actually our coach (especially last few years of his administration) he wasn't exactly universally beloved? Also weren't their rumors/behind the scenes deals of some sort going on which (for whatever reason) meant that Joe B. Hall stepping down wasn't entirely voluntary?

Sorry I'm not asking/explaining this right and I don't want anyone getting the wrong idea (Mr. Hall is a great guy/coach, everyone knows that) but I guess I just want to know more about what was going on behind the scenes at the time.

 

[zannmann]

He was forced out.

 

[Estil]

He was forced out.

How? Why? That's what I want to know.

 

[katwest]

I heard that his wife's health was a major factor and of course the pressure of following Rupp had to contribute, who knows, I would say the grind of 13 seasons as head coach here took it's toll.

 

[Blue63Madison]

Everybody loves Joe now, but that wasn't the case back when he coached. The UK fan base was divided, with the majority not liking him and wanting him replaced. It was a constant call-in show topic. Whether he left on his own or was forced out, it wasn't a surprise when it happened. Not at all.

 

[Estil]

Gee, sounds a lot like Tubby's final few years. But perhaps like Hall (and indeed Harry Truman!) Tubby too will gradually gain that same level of respect that Hall has now.

 

[JasonS.]

Pretty sure every profanity I know I learned from hearing family members talk about Joe B. Hall from 1982-1985.

 

[Blue63Madison]

Gee, sounds a lot like Tubby's final few years. But perhaps like Hall (and indeed Harry Truman!) Tubby too will gradually gain that same level of respect that Hall has now.

The only difference between the Joe B era and the Tubby era was, Joe had Leonard Hamilton recruiting for him.

 

[.S&C.]

Gee, sounds a lot like Tubby's final few years. But perhaps like Hall (and indeed Harry Truman!) Tubby too will gradually gain that same level of respect that Hall has now.

Hall went to three final fours and won a title all within his own system and personnel. I know people like to compare it, but Tubby isn't anywhere near Halls level. Nowhere near.

Hall had it hard because he followed Rupp. Tubby had it hard because he just simply isn't a great collegiate coach.

 

[Blue63Madison]

Pretty sure every profanity I know I learned from hearing family members talk about Joe B. Hall from 1982-1985.

A friend of mine got divorced back then because he and his wife argued constantly about Joe B. And yes, I'm serious.

 

[crestcat]

Hall went to three final fours and won a title all within his own system and personnel. I know people like to compare it, but Tubby isn't anywhere near Halls level. Nowhere near.

Hall had it hard because he followed Rupp. Tubby had it hard because he just simply isn't a great collegiate coach.

Every UK coach is under a microscope, that is tough enough, but Joe B not just followed Rupp, he REPLACED Rupp when he was forced out kicking and screaming.

 

[JasonS.]

I think a big thing that cut against Joe B. during those years is the rise of Louisville. Denny Crum rolled in from UCLA and took Louisville from basically nothing to national powerhouse -- and did it in our backyard.

 

[wcc31]

I was born in '79 and my first vague memories of being a UK fan are of my dad dogcussing Hall during games.

Unlike Tubby, he got the Cats to some F4s, at least- '75, '78 (champs) and '84. He also had some horrible losses in the tournament- first round upsets to UAB and Middle Tennessee State; Louisville in the Elite 8; that second half disaster in the F4 against Georgetown; and then getting blown out by St. Johns.

But he succeeded a legend pretty successfully and kept the train on the tracks. Three F4s and a national title are nothing to sneeze at.

 

[Estil]

His NIT title shouldn't be overlooked either. Back then it wasn't really the loser's tournament it is today.

And our governor thinks he's under a microscope/under criticism/pressure/media/etc...you're lucky if the majority of Kentuckians even know who the governor is!

And have any of you ever watched the State of the Commonwealth address? Did any of you even know there even is such a thing? Precisely.

My point is around here, even as far back as Rupp (perhaps especially during Rupp) the UK coach is bigger than the governor or even back in the day Colonel Sanders. And everything that goes with it, for better and for worse.

Though the governor does get a much fancier office...

 

[KopiKat]

Forced out one year after his last of 3 final fours in roughly a decade, during which he won a national title with his own players. And people say Tubby was treated unfairly. Compared to Hall, Tubby was handled with kid gloves.

 

[JC CATS]

Name someone who followed a legend as well as Joe B. Hall did? Who followed Wooden, Knight, Dean Smith, and on and on. Joe B Hall was a great coach and followed a legend as well as one can!

 

[kentucky_wildcat_#1]

Hall went to three final fours and won a title all within his own system and personnel. I know people like to compare it, but Tubby isn't anywhere near Halls level. Nowhere near.

Hall had it hard because he followed Rupp. Tubby had it hard because he just simply isn't a great collegiate coach.

I don't know if i would go that far while talking about Tubby, you just might be on to something. I used to argue for Tubby with friends all the time about if Tubby had a decent recruiter, the man would be a way better coach. I guess when you stop and think about it some, recruiting is a part of college basketball coaching. If you can't recruit, you can't be a great coach. You don't have to be at Cal's level of recruiting, but you do have to be able to recruit. Tubby never connected with that part of the job and that is why he was never meant to be at an elite program like Kentucky. I will agree with you on Hall being a better coach than Tubby. As frustrating at it was for Hall to be Kentucky's head coach, it didn't compare to screaming at Tubby for letting elite recruit after elite recruit get away and go elsewhere and we being left to just winning enough to make the tourney but hardly ever doing much more once in the tourney. I can't hate on Tubby too much. He did coach one of my favorite teams in Kentucky basketball history. That Fitch, Bogans, Hawkins, Estil and Daniels team was so fun to watch and when they loss to Wade's eagles, i had to stop watching the rest of the tourney and was so done with college basketball for the rest of the year.

 

[Blue63Madison]

It's funny how the mess Eddie Sutton inherited is just forgotten now. Oh well, we paid a price for it and I guess time heals.

 

[TeoJ]

What mess was that?

 

[Blue63Madison]

What mess was that?

LOL ... exactly.

 

[TeoJ]

Not saying Joe did any wrong but anything proved on him? Now Eddie was a whole different ball game.

 

[lawrencekash]

I always thought the second half of the Georgetown game in 84 took the heart out of Joe and divided the fans who supported him until then.

 

[TeoJ]

That second half almost killed me.

 

[lawrencekash]

I can still hear the bricks hitting the rim!

 

[TeoJ]

I had just moved to Fl and was watching in a bar,my buddy who knows nothing about basketball kept saying (that's not good right),you can only say right so many times.......

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

My wife and I were attending UK in '85. We loved Joe B., as did most students. We weren't old enough to remember Rupp. The older fans expected Joe to be Rupp. It is impossible to follow a legend. The same fate will curse whomever follows Cal. Joe was vastly superior to Tubby. Look what we got to follow Joe, a drunk (sounds familiar) and possibly a cheater. Joe B. is and was a good man, a Kentucky native, a UK player and coach. Those who maligned him have hopefully changed their opinions of the man. As for being forced out. I have a bad memory but I don't remember those feelings around campus. Of course, who knows what happened behind the scenes. I really think Joe was just tired of the stress, had all the money he wanted and retired happy at a pretty young age. The one time I got to meet him, he seemed to be a very genuine person. Personally, I'll always love the man.

 

[catlogic15]

I had just moved back to Louisville from Denver in late '84 but went back to wrap some things up in March '85. UK was in the regional there and I checked the Denver Post for tickets. I called the advertiser and turned out it was David Thompson's cousin! Gave me an address to pick up the tickets and it was David Thompson's house. Really awesome trophy case (NC St was in the region as well so seats were great, in their section). I was in shock. Yes, we lost to St. Johns but they had Chris Mullin, Bill Wethington and were a big favorite. Kenny Walker got poked in the eye and couldn't see. He wore goggles after that. Joe Hall resigned immediately after that game, so it was planned anyway. Great experience. Even saw Lou Carneseca up close the next morning as St. John's was staying at my hotel in Cherry Hills. Looked like a leprechaun. Sounds embellished I'm sure but 100% all true.

 

[lawrencekash]

I like to think that Joe wasn't kicked out and that he left because of his wife's health and his own burn out but clearly there was growing pressure from the fan base.

 

[Aike]

I was born in '79 and my first vague memories of being a UK fan are of my dad dogcussing Hall during games.

Unlike Tubby, he got the Cats to some F4s, at least- '75, '78 (champs) and '84. He also had some horrible losses in the tournament- first round upsets to UAB and Middle Tennessee State; Louisville in the Elite 8; that second half disaster in the F4 against Georgetown; and then getting blown out by St. Johns.

But he succeeded a legend pretty successfully and kept the train on the tracks. Three F4s and a national title are nothing to sneeze at.

With you on everything but the St. John's loss. That was the rare "Cinderella" Sweet 16 run for us. St. John's was supposed to smack us.

 

[SaguaroCat]

I honestly don't remember there being rumors he was forced out. Everyone seemed to take his retirement at face value. Not that it didn't cross anyone's mind, but there wasn't anyone saying they knew a booster with the inside scoop kind of stuff.

 

[JacksonPurchaseCat]

Someone please correct if I'm wrong, but didn't the LHL win a Pulitzer Prize in 1985 for their story about the $100 handshakes going on in the program?

Let me first say that i think joe is a decent man and I'm not implicating him in anything but what if the negative story, unhappy fan base, and maybe thinking it was time to get out before the shizz hit he fan (probation in1989) were more than enough reasons to leave?

 

[Robcatt24]

Seems I remember Joe B. saying he originally planned to retire after the 1984 Final Four year, but he didn't want to burden the next coach with what was going to be a major rebuilding project.

 

[Estil]

Another big difference in the Hall vs Tubby deal...Hall didn't have to worry about the Internet/forums/etc and indeed even cable/ESPN was a fairly new/luxury sort of thing for most people back then.

 

[CastleRubric]

That second half almost killed me.

Still the single worst sports memory I have

 

[Aike]

Still the single worst sports memory I have

This guy my dad knew, randomly showed up at our house at halftime of that game. He didn't even know UK was playing.

13 years later, I ran into this same guy at the hospital where my dad was having surgery. Hadn't seen the man in over a decade. Dad passed away a few days later.

True story.

 

[tapemaster8]

It's funny how the mess Eddie Sutton inherited is just forgotten now. Oh well, we paid a price for it and I guess time heals.

Eddie didn't inherit a mess. He got left a great team. What happened late might not have been all his fault, but he was in charge! I remember when he made the comment not to worry about a certain players test scores and grades. He said he guaranteed he would qualify and he did!

 

[TexKat]

Still the single worst sports memory I have

I concur. To this day I could beat that G-town player named Graham with a ball bat for his "in your face" antics.

 

[Nubb16]

Wasn't around at that time, but I can't believe he was forced out 1 year off a Final 4.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Someone please correct if I'm wrong, but didn't the LHL win a Pulitzer Prize in 1985 for their story about the $100 handshakes going on in the program?

Let me first say that i think joe is a decent man and I'm not implicating him in anything but what if the negative story, unhappy fan base, and maybe thinking it was time to get out before the shizz hit he fan (probation in1989) were more than enough reasons to leave?

Really, it took 3 years for the excrement to hit the fan? That doesn't make much sense. We didn't get in trouble for handshakes.

 

[JacksonPurchaseCat]

Really, it took 3 years for the excrement to hit the fan? That doesn't make much sense. We didn't get in trouble for handshakes.

Yeah as much as we want to complain about lack of penalties for UNC/UofL, the ncaa tried to look away for a while. The final 4 was in Lexington that year and UK was/is a cash cow. It took a planted package that just happened to pop open with cash falling out to catch UK "red handed."