Without Belichick as I mentioned on another board earlier this guy owes all of his success to Belchick, think I'm wrong? In 2008 Matt Cassel who almost literally had not played football in 9 years led the Pats to an 11-5 season. In 2016 In the first 4 games NE started 3-1 without Brady. And it's not just Brady it goes to other players on the team to. Belichick can literally take crap players from other teams & win Super Bowls with them than release them & they go back to being crap players.
Tom Brady would not be who he is
- Thread starter Kirbster23
- Start date
So 14-6 without him, 6 super bowls with him... I'd say he plays a small role in their success. Just my opinion.
That's kind of like saying Michael Jordan owes his success to Phil Jackson. It's equally true that Belichick owes Brady. Outside of Brady most of those teams are just marginal playoff teams based solely on talent.
Bill Belichick's record at New England without Tom Brady starting: 19-19
Bill Belichick's overall NFL record without Tom Brady starting: 55-63
Bill Belichick's overall NFL record without Tom Brady starting: 55-63
They are simply a great QB/coach tandem. They both need each other to have that kind of succes.
Ridiculous thread. Belichick is a great football mind but Tom Brady is who he is bc of who he is. Haters of the pats are like UK haters. Cheating, great player not great blah blah blah
Except there is ample evidence of (repeated) cheating....
The only thing your examples prove is the team around the QB is good enough to win most games with an average QB. Brady himself has said Aaron Rodgers is a much better QB than he is athletically and arm talent, but he doesn't have the Patriots culture and system around him. But you're still crazy to think Brady wouldn't still be a great QB without Belichick. How good, no way to know. But would still be one of the top QB's.
Don't really know enough to take a side, but I do think it's worth considering whether another QB could have had the same (or more) success. No way to know. Staying relatively injury-free and playing so many years helps. But it's absurd to say he's a crap player or owes all his success to Belichick.
You calling UK a cheater too? I mean we’ve been on probation, had a season with no basketball for point shaving. Did that tarnish everything we ve accomplished? Does that make rupp a second rate coach? Or how about all the allegations against cal that are unfounded??? Sick if he pats cheating claims by fools like you. The patriots like UK don’t do anything the rest of the league doesn’t do.
UCLA paid all their top tier guys through the 60s and 70s
Duke provides jobs and housing for their player families
Jerry rice admitted using stick em
Aaron Rodgers over inflating balls
The cheating garbage is what haters go to every stinking time whether it’s UK or the Pats. What do you say now???
Now there are people coming out he wood works to claim aaron Rogers is uncoachable. The mental aspect is 80% of the game. People look at physical ability and discount the most important aspects of being the goat. No one compares to Brady when it comes to the mental game, longevity, numbers and friggin titles. Brady just won his 6th title more than any player in nfl history. He’s had his team in the Super Bowl 9 times or 50% of his career. This wasn’t done by an 18 year committee it was done with Brady leading the team. Creating and environment to build players up. Him and Belichick together have done it and both are goat at the position.
First of all, you need to calm down. Let's try to be rational - you realize that screaming your points with triple question marks and trying to bully me doesn't prove your point, right?
All I did was point out that there is evidence of them cheating. I take this to be a discussion of the Patriots and Cats in their current eras/dynasties (last 20 years or so) - not the whole history of sports. In that sense, then, you were making a false equivalence fallacy between UK and the Patriots. People hate on UK these days mostly because of their success and the attention they get. People do the same to the Patriots, but with the Patriots (and here is the key difference...) a large portion of the dislike is from all the scandals they've had. With UK "haters" may bring up cheating as a last resort, but it's a bad strategy because there is no tangible evidence in the current era. With the Patriots it's different because there is such evidence, and no amount of hyperbolic/unprovable arguments like "well everyone else does it, too" is going to remove than tarnish.
Also they had a chance to go undefeated. Another parallel. What player has been able to that with any team? Get to 9 superbowls, win 6 and have an undefeated season til the super bowl?? Lol no one comes close.
IMO, Bill outcoached superior teams in both the division championship game and the Super Bowl this year. Also, regarding the stats with or without Tom Brady, what NFL coach wouldn't look mediocre when his starter is injured. And I also believe Tom Brady is an incredible, perhaps the best all time QB. His performance at his age is breathtaking.
Tom Bradys final drives against the Chiefs to tie it and then win it in ot were remarkable. That’s when I knew he was the goat. Just precision. He’s awesome in my book. Others just don’t want to believe it. I have no nfl team.
Why do people have to go out of their way to discredit people? Does it just drive you crazy that someone has been successful? You win 6 Super Bowls and 9 AFC Championships it doesnt matter what some curmudgeon in Kentucky thinks about you, you're the greatest. Stand up, tip your damn cap and move on. Tom Brady is not the dude whose career you need to nitpick.
" lol.. Has to be in Hall of Fame as dumbest assessments I have seen.. Small roll lol"
Maybe. And this is just a maybe here. Maybe I was being a little facetious because of the ridiculousness of the original take that Brady owes ALL his success to Belichick. Brady is the goat. I have no doubts about that. I appreciate the fact that u think I'm worthy of the hall of fame for anything tho. Apparently I should also be in the hall of fame for sarcasm that goes over people's heads.
Maybe. And this is just a maybe here. Maybe I was being a little facetious because of the ridiculousness of the original take that Brady owes ALL his success to Belichick. Brady is the goat. I have no doubts about that. I appreciate the fact that u think I'm worthy of the hall of fame for anything tho. Apparently I should also be in the hall of fame for sarcasm that goes over people's heads.
Your points were irrelevant so I see them as discredited. If you compare bodies of work whether over 20 years or a century it doesn’t matter. You don’t get to pick and choose to make your argument. A whole lot of people won’t recognize uk basketball as the all time greatest for the same reason you won’t recognize Brady as goat.
Btw there is a large number of people who believe cal cheats every year. Does that stain him as the winningest coach of the last decade??? Really UK fans calling out the pats as cheaters is a very slippery slope bc every non UK person out there believes we are the cheatingest program there is with the cheatingest coach.
You're not very rational, you can't/won't follow arguments, and you can't stick to the confines of an ongoing debate without bringing in irrelevant points. You've got your biased mind made up. Goodbye.
I forgot you designed by laws for this nationwide debate.
Let it go. You have no argument. Brady is goat and anyone denying that is just a hater probably a Peyton Manning jock sniffer.
I never said Brady wasn't the GOAT. Lol see this is your main problem, you can't stick to what's being argued. I don't make these crazy rules; it's called having a memory and abiding by logic and reason. Just go back and look at what I said. All I argued was that you made a false equivalence between UK and the Patriots.
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Tom Brady is the GOAT in peoples minds due to his success in an extremely long career. I can no longer go for that. The guy has not been hit since he blew his knee out. Joe Montana would still be playing into his 40's as well if he never got hit the last 10-15 years of his career.
I think it's pretty obvious that the greatest NFL coach teamed up with the greatest NFL quarterback. That's how you go to 9 superbowls in 18 years.
The facts are Belichick and Brady have established a championship culture in Boston. Regardless of how they attained their success, they are the champions. End of story.
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