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To all you people who vanished after the UNC and Louisville wins...

Just a comment on the AAU coach thing. Cal wasn't compared to the coach, rather his offensive scheme was compared to something as basic as could be. And it was more right than wrong.

The team has no discernible offensive scheme and any time they're in the half court it's anybody's guess as to where the shot may come from.

Against Bama they took a lot of contested runners and jumpers in the lane? Why? Because they can.

We know Cal can do better but often question why he doesn't. And so it goes.
 
We're fans. If we're gonna shower Cal with praise for two great wins over rivals, we're also allowed to be a little vocal when you had a week to prepare for lowly Alabama and take a loss. It's human nature, not rocket science.
I agree; but what the OP is talking about is "fans" who never show up after wins (or, if they're posting in a game thread, only post negatively even if we win) but post profusely after losses, whining. "True" fans are there through good times and bad, cheering the good play and criticizing the bad.

PS-Bama ain't that lowly this season, especially at their place.
 
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Let’s look at this in a dofferent light....

How would same posters feel if we started the season with no losses in the OOC schedule, went 16-2 SEC, but lost in the sweet sixteen or earlier? Would that be successful? They would be thrilled at the early season success for sure. But would that be enough of an accomplishment to keep them happy? Of course not, there is no winning with them unless we go undefeated, or damn close to it, and win the NC. That is just the way they are - never happy. There is no pleasing them, and there never will be. Title every year or bust.

I’m not happy with that loss on Saturday. I can say that Cal probably didn’t coach his best game. But I am also able to see that Cal is a damn good coach, a Hall of Fame Coach.


see, I don't agree, I think that's an exaggerated version of what you think you see.

Look up in the rafters in Rupp. See the jerseys with Pelphrey, Farmer, Feldhaus and Woods? Their best season was was 29-7, no final four

And to your direct point - Title every year or bust

Cal set the table on that saying he understood those people when he hired in.

They don't demand titles, they want to be in the conversation for the title.

Where the disconnect is, Cal wants everyone to currently support only being in the conversation for the month of March. That wasn't what he was selling when he came here.

4 straight losses in February last year is not being in the conversation. Dropping out of the top 20 in January (or wherever we land) is not being in the conversation. And if all it takes is a loss to Bama to make that happen, then that is when you get the vitriol.

You guys may be seeing this year as a clean slate, but there is definitely carryover last year given we had the entire year without being in the coversation, had an easy path the final four and didn't deliver.

Its doesn't take much of a spark to start a fire in dry forest.
 
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now admittedly, this whole anonymous posting thing on the internet gives people liberty to talk hyperbole and in absolutes that add very little real value. I don't particularly like reading that, sometimes I look at the post count and see they have a couple of hundred posts and realize the "self policing" mechanism of this board will make them a better poster over time, sometimes I see thousands of posts and just accept thats who they are.

But they cheer for the Cats in a time with attendance and fan enthusiasm for college sports (and all sports other than soccer) is dropping.

I see value in that.

Personally I think the best approach is to push board decorum, not suggested self banishment.
 
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Do not overly complain, just do not like the product right now and the way things are being done.. It is starting to feel like the last 5 years of the Tubby era, Cal is not concerned with how we feel or going to final fours or championships, it is all about what the players can do for the there NBA dreams and pushing that agenda on kids.. Plus his offensive schemes reminds you of something you would watch a volunteer coach run with a 10 year old AAU sqaud, has got tiresome watching the same thing, the last 5 or 6 seasons..
I have to disagree with it feeling like the last 5 years of the Tubby era. We had no hope to compete in those days. (And the SEC was terrible in those days outside of Florida) Oh, we had 4 year players, and yes I loved them all, but they stayed because they had no other options and just weren't very good. Our teams rarely had any upside, so if we were bad in November, we were bad in March. Do you remember getting on here and attempting to hype up Shagari Alleyne, Lukasz Obrzut, Jared Carter or AJ Stewart? Do you remember when Michael Porter was our starting point guard for an entire season? I remember those days very well, and to compare that to UK under Calipari is apples and oranges.
 
Do not overly complain, just do not like the product right now and the way things are being done.. It is starting to feel like the last 5 years of the Tubby era, Cal is not concerned with how we feel or going to final fours or championships, it is all about what the players can do for the there NBA dreams and pushing that agenda on kids.. Plus his offensive schemes reminds you of something you would watch a volunteer coach run with a 10 year old AAU sqaud, has got tiresome watching the same thing, the last 5 or 6 seasons..


Yeah, our recent point guards are so similar to Saul Smith. Very disappointing. :flush:
 
Just a comment on the AAU coach thing. Cal wasn't compared to the coach, rather his offensive scheme was compared to something as basic as could be. And it was more right than wrong.

The team has no discernible offensive scheme and any time they're in the half court it's anybody's guess as to where the shot may come from.

Against Bama they took a lot of contested runners and jumpers in the lane? Why? Because they can.

We know Cal can do better but often question why he doesn't. And so it goes.

How do you think we are able to play with “no discernible offensive scheme” and still produce top 20 offensive efficiency numbers? Luck? Or do you think maybe there’s a method to what he’s doing?

Is it possible, just possible, that there is a scheme and you’re missing something?

You don’t have to like the style of play. But to pretend like there’s no method to what Cal is doing is, frankly, idiotic. And when people express such idiotic opinions, it’s hard to take anything they say seriously.
 
The amount of threads started on this site just to call out fans is ridiculous.

Let people vent and cope with the game the way the makes them feel better about it.
Venting is one thing but some of these clowns are vicious. And we know the players and coaches see some of it. It has to hurt the program.
 
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A Duke fan's perspective - I no longer post after losses because I had an agenda - that Coach K was past his prime, and our tourney exits reflected that. When Duke won, I was almost disappointed because it didn't fit with my perception of Coach K.

I suspect it's the same thing on this board - posters who don't care for Cal for whatever reason take losses as proof that they're right. Hell, even as a Duke fan I get sick of their constant complaining and pessimism.
 
I agree; but what the OP is talking about is "fans" who never show up after wins (or, if they're posting in a game thread, only post negatively even if we win) but post profusely after losses, whining. "True" fans are there through good times and bad, cheering the good play and criticizing the bad.

PS-Bama ain't that lowly this season, especially at their place.


The most pathetic ones post relentless team and coach and even player bashing in the game thread and then if we win they throw on a “go Cats!!” post and then vanish. But they are only fooling themselves. Everybody sees it.
 
A Duke fan's perspective - I no longer post after losses because I had an agenda - that Coach K was past his prime, and our tourney exits reflected that. When Duke won, I was almost disappointed because it didn't fit with my perception of Coach K.

I suspect it's the same thing on this board - posters who don't care for Cal for whatever reason take losses as proof that they're right. Hell, even as a Duke fan I get sick of their constant complaining and pessimism.

Duke fan nailed it. I hate agreeing with him, but nailed it. This is what bothers me most. They are eager for a loss so they can come back and say, “see, I told you!”
 
now admittedly, this whole anonymous posting thing on the internet gives people liberty to talk hyperbole and in absolutes that add very little real value. I don't particularly like reading that, sometimes I look at the post count and see they have a couple of hundred posts and realize the "self policing" mechanism of this board will make them a better poster over time, sometimes I see thousands of posts and just accept thats who they are.

But they cheer for the Cats in a time with attendance and fan enthusiasm for college sports (and all sports other than soccer) is dropping.

I see value in that.

Personally I think the best approach is to push board decorum, not suggested self banishment.
I can totally respect someone with a difference of opinion. I do detest the posters who ONLY post when they can say something negative. I don’t respect them as fans. Even then, I have no desire to see them banned nor do I put them on ignore. I choose to not pay it much attention and if I do, I speak my peace & go on not giving it anymore thought. Let the haters hate, the lovers love, & those in the middle, sit on the fence. Makes no difference to me.
 
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Duke fan nailed it. I hate agreeing with him, but nailed it. This is what bothers me most. They are eager for a loss so they can come back and say, “see, I told you!”

to be fair, there was no shortage of call out threads after the UNC game, and even now after a loss there are a several call out threads including this one telling them they are miserable people.

if people are going to egg them on after a win, it would seem a natural reaction for them to come back after a bad loss to validate their concerns.

It really all boils down to if you think the program is going in the wrong direction, you're going to be intolerant of a wait and see strategy when the team isn't excelling.

And if you think the program is going in the right direction, you're going to tolerate less than "top 5" displays and push for a more longer term view in the hope they get there.

Neither side is very accommodating when they are being reminded their viewpoint isn't aligning with current reality.
 
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How cool, another thread from a fan telling other fans how to be a fan! Let's all give the OP a round of applause!
 
A Duke fan's perspective - I no longer post after losses because I had an agenda - that Coach K was past his prime, and our tourney exits reflected that. When Duke won, I was almost disappointed because it didn't fit with my perception of Coach K.

I suspect it's the same thing on this board - posters who don't care for Cal for whatever reason take losses as proof that they're right. Hell, even as a Duke fan I get sick of their constant complaining and pessimism.

A rare honest admission. We have a number of posters who resemble your remarks.
 
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Certainly. He can surely have an opinion. So can I. Do you truly believe Cal is on par with a “volunteer 10 year old AAU coach?” That was my only point. I believe that opinion to be complete bullshit spewed only after a loss. If we get to a final four this year, that guy will be happy to have that volunteer 10 year old AAU Coach on the sideline.

Fair enough. I think the fact that I have zero interest in the NBA plays into my thoughts quite a bit. I’m over 60 years old and while he’s using certain things to help UK in the long run I personally hate hearing ‘players first’ and how many millions / billions his former players are making in the NBA. As I said, I pull for Cal and UK big time but I will be okay if he leaves some day. Peace.
 
Fair enough. I think the fact that I have zero interest in the NBA plays into my thoughts quite a bit. I’m over 60 years old and while he’s using certain things to help UK in the long run I personally hate hearing ‘players first’ and how many millions / billions his former players are making in the NBA. As I said, I pull for Cal and UK big time but I will be okay if he leaves some day. Peace.

I don’t watch the NBA at all. I don’t care about it. I can agree with you there. And I too will be ok when Cal leaves, it’s going to happen and we will replace him with another coach who is hopefully qualified to push forward. Cals “players first” and “player driven” and “billions made in the NBA” aren’t my cup of tea, but I don’t believe he doesn’t care about winning titles here. I believe he’s doing his best to bring in talent to do just that. He cares, and hopefully he’ll change a few things that maybe he should change, but those messages aren’t really an issue, it’s all just marketing. Appreciate your post.
 
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I believe his approach is wrong

and I think winning championships are ancillary to his players first agenda

I didn't always believe that, but then again, he wasn't always preaching players first - regardless of how he presents it now.

I personally believe Cal is very interested in his legacy as a coach and he's focused on being remembered as a players first coach as opposed to the guy that led Kentucky to surpass UCLA in championships

They aren't mutually exclusive but I also don't think they are perfectly aligned. As as an employee of the University of Kentucky, I think we all agree on which one should be his priority...or at least I think we would all agree.
 
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I believe his approach is wrong

and I think winning championships are ancillary to his players first agenda

I didn't always believe that, but then again, he wasn't always preaching players first - regardless of how he presents it now.

I can understand why you would feel that way. I just don’t feel the same. We were so close it’s not even funny in 11, 14, 15, and 17. If we win one or two of those like I think we should have, different story. I can say, 11 maybe I think Cal flubbed a bit. Even 15. But with 15, there were two atrocious calls that did us in. So ultimately, 15 and 17 I blame on some shady calls. That’s just me. 11, Cal should have stopped the shot selection. 14 even there were two calls that directly impacted the game.

Anyway, my point is, we were on the cusp of winning a title 4 other seasons. That’s not luck.
 
I can understand why you would feel that way. I just don’t feel the same. We were so close it’s not even funny in 11, 14, 15, and 17. If we win one or two of those like I think we should have, different story. I can say, 11 maybe I think Cal flubbed a bit. Even 15. But with 15, there were two atrocious calls that did us in. So ultimately, 15 and 17 I blame on some shady calls. That’s just me. 11, Cal should have stopped the shot selection. 14 even there were two calls that directly impacted the game.

Anyway, my point is, we were on the cusp of winning a title 4 other seasons. That’s not luck.

understand, but 11 was pre championship. I think an argument can be made that 14, 15 were riding the momentum of us owning the OAD landscape of college basketball.

No accusation from me that Cal is resting on his laurels, however his language isn't about putting trophies in the case, its about putting kids on their way. Its not marketing anymore, its an agenda. When he talked about the NBA draft being the greatest day in Kentucky or whatever he said, most of us got it - 24/7 recruiting. That's how you get an Anthony Davis to Kentucky. That morphed into "That's somebodies son out there, I'm not going to set them on the bench and tell them we'll fix it next year"

Now he has his championship, his HOF induction, he is most likely at the place he is going to ride out his career and based on his past comments, its a limited shelf life. Somewhere along the way he decided he could use UK to be more altruistic toward players - for whatever reasons.

As I said, I believe championships are ancillary.
 
Can you please go away again?

Do you honestly think that the rest of us don't understand that anyone who doesn't enjoy and celebrate the team's triumphs but immediately shows up to whine and cry and criticize after a loss is a miserable phony?

I saw so many names here Saturday and Sunday I hadn't seen since Seton Hall. You weren't missed. Get lost.
Exactly and somehow Bama was Cal's fault. It gets old. Just say you hate Cal, don't go through all of the trouble of poorly trying to sneak it into breaking down the game. One guy bitched about using TO's. I guess he didn't realize we didn't have any left.
 
Really!!? How do you prepare for a lucky turd that hits 6 of 6 threes when he normally shoots 28%—and for our teams lack of hustle and poor shooting in the 2nd half?? I’ll give Cal and the team a break this early in the season. If this happens at the start of Feb then I’ll probably think a lot differently!
Actually we survived the worst of that, 5 for 5 in the first half, and we had the lead, crapped the bed in the second half
 
I must say, it has to be quite miserable for people to not be able to enjoy wins, yet always pile on when the team loses. I get the frustration with losses. I hate them too. But I'm glad I can actually enjoy the wins.
Mods please ban for making sense, we have a zero tolerance for sense around here.
 
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I just took a look at the list of HOF coaches, totally unimpressive, the bar is low. Sounds a lot more impressive than it actually is.

Cal is in HOF
HOF sucks and means nothing

Ok, then there’s this:
- 3 times Naismith COY
- 9 times conference COY
- 3 times NABC COY
- 1 time AP COY
- 1 NCAA Champ.
- 6 Final Fours
- 81% of games won here
- 77% of games won in CB
- 6 SEC Tourney Champ.
- 5 SEC season titles

I mean, maybe the HOF is worthless, but he’s done a few things. He’s not average. He’s one of the most accomplished coaches in the game. I get it, you don’t want him here, but he doesn’t suck at what he does.
 
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Bingo , there are a couple on that list namely the first two that enjoy a Kentucky loss more than a win !!

I don’t think that’s true. I don’t think ANY UK fan ever wants to see them lose. Ever UK fan is not going to be a Cal fan, but ever UK fan wants to see UK win. I’m sometimes critical of Cal. An example was when he didn’t call a TO with 9.5 seconds left against SH. If we were a seasoned team with guards who were Juniors or Seniors, I would have understood not calling a TO.
I was also critical of Pitno when he didn’t guard the man throwing in the ball against Duke, just as a lot of you were.
Because we are critical of a coach, doesn’t mean we want to see him gone, or UK lose. You and I, and other UK fans have an opinion, and there is nothing wrong with that, as long as it is expressed in the right way.
I’ve been married to the same woman, and I even disagree with her, but that’s a mistake. NO MAN is ever right when he disagrees with his wife.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!
 
I think it's important to remember there's a spectrum of critique. I'd break it up into the following:

Red: "The Insurrectionists" - want Cal gone no matter what (probably about 2-5% of this board if I had to guess). They want to storm the Bastille and invert the whole system but lack the depth to offer a viable replacement system or coach. Most of their arguments go about ankle deep and they tend to base their arguments off raw emotion. If you cut out the trolls who pretend to be UK fans, the "insurrectionists" actually represent our smallest group of posters.

Orange: "The Revolutionaries" - want to keep Cal, but think he needs to make massive changes to his offense, coaching staff, philosophy, etc. They typically blend criticisms into one compound criticism instead of analyzing each point on a micro level. They call for very loose revolutionary paradigm shifts, such as offensive philosophy, but rarely offer any additional information about offensive systems that might actually replace UK's current system. Most of their ideas represent half-solutions, which marginalizes their overall outlook and often makes them resort to overstating their points and being confused for "insurrectionists." They probably represent around 20-30% of the board.

Yellow: "The Reformers" - think there are some ways to improve with maybe one staff change or a philosophical realignment that consistently brings in more grad transfers every year or starts playing dirty with Nike in order to land elites (I'm somewhere in this camp). This group is more pragmatic than "green" outlooks, and don't mind the gray areas. They will often distance themselves from the drastic overcompensation that orange "revolutionaries" tend to shade towards. I'd estimate they represent about 15-20% of the board.

Green: "The Modifiers" - Thinks changes could be a good thing, but largely keep perspective regarding historical precedent at the forefront of every discussion. These posters aren't really willing to drastically change course just yet, but they also recognize that new methods of improvement should always be in consideration. They won't go the road of yellow in terms of endorsing Nike gray areas (for example), but they do advocate for possibly adding a new staff member or recruiting more grad transfers. They have a pretty strict moral code when it comes to recruiting ethics, but will still listen to logic and hear out good opinions. They represent about 40-50% of the board. Probably the most trusted outlook on the board, I might add. They have some alphas that lead the way ideologically and set the tone for the less articulate "modifiers."

Blue: "The Maintainers" - These fans deflect from almost any form of criticism. They overcompensate in the same way that the "red" fans do, just using the opposite criteria, portraying nearly all evidence as a way to deflect from finding fault within any area of outlook. They constantly point to a silver utopia where everything somehow comes together someday; where no sample size is sufficient for forming analytical critique; and where the only precedent that matters is the one that points to the "randomness" of the tournament structure, thereby rendering any expectations nullified. Many of their posts gain support from "modifiers", but if you read the overall theme of their posts, they are far from modifiers in reality because unlike green category thinkers, blue "maintainers" never allow for critique against UK's staff, coaching decisions, player decisions, etc. 5-10% of the board is a good estimate here.
 
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Cal is in HOF
HOF sucks and means nothing

Ok, then there’s this:
- 3 times Naismith COY
- 9 times conference COY
- 3 times NABC COY
- 1 time AP COY
- 1 NCAA Champ.
- 6 Final Fours
- 81% of games won here
- 77% of games won in CB
- 6 SEC Tourney Champ.
- 5 SEC season titles

I mean, maybe the HOF is worthless, but he’s done a few things. He’s not average. He’s one of the most accomplished coaches in the game. I get it, you don’t want him here, but he doesn’t suck at what he does.
Seems like you're taking a lot for granted. I've never said Cal sucks and I've never said I didn't want him here. He's a perfect fit for UK basketball coach. He has never walked on water and he has made some mistakes that I would wager he agonizes over more than I.

I just looked up the HOF list because it was brought up here and is always brought up in any discussion about the Tubster.
 
Seems like you're taking a lot for granted. I've never said Cal sucks and I've never said I didn't want him here. He's a perfect fit for UK basketball coach. He has never walked on water and he has made some mistakes that I would wager he agonizes over more than I.

I just looked up the HOF list because it was brought up here and is always brought up in any discussion about the Tubster.

You said the Hall of Fame Coaching list was not impressive and set the bar low as an indicator of success. I was just giving some facts that supported my claim that Cal was a top tier coach. That’s all. I don’t know how I “took anything for granted?” No flame to you, just supporting my claim that you seemed inclined to demisish.
 
Must take a lot to impress you.

6 active coaches on that list. Coach K. Boeheim. Roy Williams. Cal. Self. Izzo.

Bunch of chumps.
I'm not going to get into a pissing contest and I'm not going to look up the duds but when I looked at the list there were great coaches, good coaches and mediocre coaches. Average coaches being in the HOF keeps it from being an elite club IMHO
 
I think its a bit paranoid to think that someone who has been posting here for a few years and has several hundred or even thousand post under his/her belt is some troll.

Secondly, and its been said ad nauseam , but this isn't the University of Calipari, its the University of Kentucky.

There are people from day one that haven't liked the OAD approach and just because some people firmly believe you have to fall in line with whatever approach that Calipari believes in , it doesn't make you a smarter, better or a more passionate fan.

Many people come here and want to read optimism and a positive viewpoint regarding the team they love, certainly nothing wrong with that, but that hasn't been Kentucky .....ever.

When a coach like Cal says "I know what I'm getting into when I come here" - do you think he's talking about the people giving him parades on Euclid Avenue? Nope, he's talking about people losing their minds over a loss to Alabama.

and that goes back to my original point - Long after Cal is gone, those people will still be watching and supporting Kentucky basketball in their own way.

It really is why we have the best program in the nation.

And its why shutting them down is the wrong approach.

Well said!
 
You said the Hall of Fame Coaching list was not impressive and set the bar low as an indicator of success. I was just giving some facts that supported my claim that Cal was a top tier coach. That’s all. I don’t know how I “took anything for granted?” No flame to you, just supporting my claim that you seemed inclined to demisish.
I get it, you don't want him here doesn't mean he
sucks ……...sound familiar
 
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