Then the 2-10 seasons you referred to will become the norm again.
Thoughts from Dick Gabriel
- Thread starter BelfryKYCatFanatic
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Georgia beat us 51-13 and could've scored 70 if they wanted.
We were down 21-0 to Bama after we ran 4 offensive plays. I don't think I've ever seen a more unprepared team. They could've scored 70 if they wanted.
We will never beat the big dogs playing such a conservative, sloppy style on both sides of the ball. And please don't say UL is a big dog. They were a decent team in a terrible league so they are not a top 10 team.
And still gets blown out. I know a lot/most coaches do it, but when you are playing a higher ranked team and win the coin toss why do you defer to 2nd half? You give up an offensive possession knowing you're going to start the game down 7-0. Makes no sense to me.
My post was in response to the poster who said that a program's past had "absolutely nothing to do with the future" of a program. If that were the case, then there's no reason why you can't expect to jump in the ring with Ohio St/Bama.
Sure Bama was losing prior to Saban, but then they hired Saban. He was a hot, proven coach who just previously succeeded at LSU. You think Bama's history had "absolute zero" to do with hiring Saban? Think about this. If program reputation didn't factor in, why isn't there WAAAAY more movement among programs. Why do the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor?
And, yes, Barnhardt did promise Stoops an investment. But it was on the back of Brooks who showed some success and begged for investment but didn't get it. Brooks' winning was the catalyst that got the investment going.
Who said that investment wasn't a key factor? It most certainly is a factor. Just as program reputation is a factor. They're both HUGE factors.
Mostly agree with Dick but I think to some extent he missing the trees by looking at the forest. The unhappiness of the fan base this year has more to do with what they saw on the field than the final scores. The mistakes, penalties, undisciplined play at times was costly and may have lead to losses against UT and Mizzou. The USCe game was inexplicable, they just played at a lackluster level for whatever reason. There will always be times when a team plays less than consistently but this year seems to stick out as not typical from Stoops teams of the past. But he has earned the time to fix what was broke
In the end Dick is right to point out that a coach should be judged on his entire body of work not the last few games but this statement is pure hyperbole:
And still, some folks expect Kentucky to overtake and pass the Georgias and Alabamas of the world.
I have not heard that articulated by anyone on our boards. However as in any sport the goal should always be to win.
In the end Dick is right to point out that a coach should be judged on his entire body of work not the last few games but this statement is pure hyperbole:
And still, some folks expect Kentucky to overtake and pass the Georgias and Alabamas of the world.
I have not heard that articulated by anyone on our boards. However as in any sport the goal should always be to win.
The elite schools have been the ones investing for decades just like Kentucky BB. They care. We didn’t care about football until recently. If Bear Bryant would’ve stayed we might be today’s version of Bama. Instead we made BB a priority. So no I don’t think our past matters to our future success because in the past we didn’t care or invest in football and now we’re making investments. Those investments have changed our trajectory as a program. I don’t think we have the recruiting base to be Georgia, Bama, Michigan etc on an annual basis but I do think we can contend and compete here every 5 years or so with the right coaching staff and administration. I’d at least like to strive for that than just accepting mediocrity and making excuses for that.
You can’t compare the past with now. Our admin has finally decided to invest in football so apples and oranges. And a lot of that credit goes to guys like Barnhart, Brooks and Stoops. Tell me any GOOD coach we have had that couldn’t succeed because of the name on the jersey. A bad coach can’t win ANYWHERE, and we’ve had some stinkers. Stoops is a great example of what a good coach can do here with the right support. But if you think there aren’t other good coaches out there that could possibly do better, then I don’t know what to tell you. If it was such slim pickings, Stoops would be coaching at a power football school. Yes, there is always risk to hiring new coaches which is why you have to get it right.
Discounting the SEC...how many schools in the country want to be Alabama/Georgia. Heck GA wasn't Alabama till Smart.
Not hiring Schnellenburger was biggest mistake UK ever made in fb. With the time and money he would have been highly successful at UK.
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Not a single one of those coaches got the support of the administration like Stoops has. That's why it's pointless to compare the past with now. Give Brooks all of the extra benefits that Stoops has now and with no probation and he probably has 10 win seasons as well. Reverse things and put Stoops as coach in 2003 with major scholarship restrictions and near 0 support from the admin and see how he performs.
Dick Gabirel is right. I don't expect to ''overtake'' UGA and AU. But I damn sure expect to beat UT, Missouri, and South carolina. Is that too much to ask because we were bad 70 years ago?
We are always much closer to the bottom than Bama, Georgia, Texas, LSU, and Florida because of talent base alone.
A few slip ups. A few guys that don't pan out. A few guys that don't want to work hard and earn their reps and instead just transfer. That's all that separated us from bowl eligibility for decades. That's all that separates us now from 9 and 10 win seasons.
Georgia and Alabama have top 5 recruiting classes stacked 5 classes deep. We have done incredibly well by Kentucky standards. Remember when 4 star recruits were REALLY RARE and we might have 1 every 4th recruiting class on average? I do. It's a HUGE LEAP from THERE to multiple 4 stars in each recruiting class for 6 or 7 classes straight. We've also added an occasional 5 star about like we once added 4 stars.
What will it take to land more of them, or instead PRODUCE them as this staff did with Josh Allen?
It will take massive NIL funding for 3 successive classes and then execution into success. There's no magic coaching button you can push to get a 20th ranked class to be as talented as a 5th ranked class. It doesn't exist. There's no magic button that brings multiple 5 stars into your program without other 5 stars and proven success. You have to find the players that can become the next Josh Allen, get them to stay, work hard, and have the heart and fire of a champion, ALONG WITH players that might be close to Deone Walker's level.
We had a coach that could do that in OL coach and former Wildcat JSchlarman. We now know just how RARE and INCREDIBLY SPECIAL that man was, and how impossible it might be to replace him. We need 10 Schlarmans, 1 for each coaching position, to get us to where we want to go. And we have to do that in this transient sports culture....
We also need fans that will be supportive of the program regardless of setbacks, rather than ready to fire the coach and sht on the players at the first bad outing. We need boosters with money to burn on NIL. We need better support from the administration to really make FB recruiting look like it's a top priority for UK.
I think and hope this season taught Stoops a lot, especially with the flirtation with Texas A&M. I really believe he thought his assistants would follow wherever he went, but he found out they wont. Now they have to sit down and discuss why and make the necessary changes. Next season we`ll see less of the zone defenses and more blitz, this way teams wont be able to dink and dunk their way down field. I also believe Coen will introduce a more open and exciting offense that kids like to play. Then we just need the players to execute and they will. We need to get to the point of you execute or you`ll sit. But to do that, we need depth and that's where the portal will be needed.
A lot of the basketball people are the reason why football didn't get any investment for half a century.
Brooks was promised the investment and facilities improvements, and because of basketball and the boosters, he never got them and never had the support he should have gotten, AND that he EARNED. Stoops got some of what was promised to Brooks only a decade later than it was promised to Brooks.
THAT tells you more about why the program has been where it's been for half a century.
Agreed
Have you been on the boards much the past 5 years? Because that's exactly what they have been and are expecting. We finished 2nd to Georgia in the East 1 or 2 times. We've been competitive with them in 2 games during their build-up to back-to-back national championships. We've finished with 10 wins 2x.
When we win 11 games in a season, they will still bich and moan that "we didnt win 12," "this is the best we'll ever have under Stoops," and "the only reason is that the SEC was down..." They cant fkn help themselves, they cant stand it when they're wrong, and they cant stand it when the program does well because they are miserable, "glass is half empty" people. Kirby Smart couldn't win an SEC TITLE here with these millstone fans tied around his neck, and neither will anyone else until they die off.
It took him SIX years AT GEORGIA to win a national title. After many years of consistent success and years of great recruiting under Mark Richt, it still took him 6 years to win a title at a school with IMMENSE football tradition, winning 10 SEC Titles and a national championship before the 1990s. Yet, he still hasn't beaten Bama in an SEC Championship game or during the season.
The negs here would have had him fired if they wouldn't have been yelling for it from his first day here. They'll all try to laugh it off, because they know they are unreasonable and ignorant when it comes to their own ridiculous rants and relative uselessness in making a difference to better the program. Just proves the point
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I agree 100%. UK Football was a joke the vast majoirty of my life. Rich Brooks made it fun. Stopps brought us back and had the most success I’ve ever seen as a fan. He deserves our love, and the time to continue to build his legacy here.
I wish I could believe and see all the changes you speak about, but with MS I certainly wouldn't bet any money on it.
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I guess I`m more hopeful than anything, but to get to the next level, we need to open the offense and play a tighter style of defense. A more open style of offense will become more entertaining to offensive recruits.
Our past is reflective of the systemic limitations of UK football. Stoops had a plan and was able to overcome those limitations by strategically becoming a top recruiter in Ohio. He has had the best results since Bear Bryant in the 50s before integration. To discount that is ignorant at best and seems disingenuous IMO. It's good to desire to be better, but its also important to be practical or you may find out the grass isn't greener and you get worse than you had.
It's important context to recognize that Stoop's is a HUGE reason why we started investing because 1. that's what he asked for in order to take the job and 2. he went out and cultivated relationships with all the big boosters who weren't previously giving to the football program. They have been giving to him, not Mitch, so no guarantees that continues at the same level.
It's insane to say that Stoops is averaging top 40-45. This year was below avg and we are 35-40. Last year we were 25-30 and twice we've finished top 15. Free market says teams with less chance top recruit top players because they produce none in their home state means they must overpay coaches to increase their odds of producing better than expected. Stoops is avg top 20-30 the last 8-10 years which is above anyone's realistic expectations before he arrived. Every fan wants more, but people who are self-aware recognize the difference between desire and expectations. Maybe you should reevaluate your understanding of how good this team has been and/or reconsider your expectations.
It is true that expectations were high this year and we didn't meet them. What you can put on fans is a level of emotional immaturity that seems to prevent perspective. Yes, we failed to win one more game on the road at USCe which would have met expectations in the win column, but the trend line is fine. As a financial analyst I look at sports results much like I look at company performance. Is the multi year trend line above historical avg and are there any catastrophes preventing growth? No. I would even argue that it's pretty impressive to finish 7-5 in such a down year which is much better than our historical avg (it was actually our ceiling before Stoops arrived). This season was a bit of a disappointment, but not below the expected range of outcomes.
Stoops receiving more support was primarily his own doing. He went out and raised money and that is a big part of this job. Brooks begged, but he didn't convince anyone with money to pitch in.
We were “pretty sure we [could] find one who can at least have made sure we have 11 on the field” for 55 years prior to Stoops, and failed miserably . . . . even Hall of Fame Coach Claiborne finishing with a losing record when only played 6 SEC opponents every year.
I bet @jeffries123 you cannot remember Curci . . . and likely can’t remember Claiborne.
A ringing endorsement!!
You hate remembering history or being controlled by it.
Curiously, how old are you? Do you remember Curci, or Claiborne?
As for me, I’m 60 years old, and became a fan during Curci’s 1974, 6-5 season.
To show you how low profile UK Football once was, I lost a bet in the 3rd grade (1972), as I was certain UK did not have a football program. I could name the starters for UK basketball, but seriously had no inkling that UK had a football program.
I listened in Morristown Tennessee to my first radio broadcast of a college football game at an Aunt’s home. UT and UK each at 6-4 were playing for a berth in the Liberty Bowl.
UK played Maryland on national TV in 1975, the first Nationally or Regionally televised UK football game in 17 years. We tied Jerry Claiborne’s highly respected Maryland Terrapins that day and I was hooked.
In 1976 and 1977, WKYT (Channel 27), took advantage of a loophole in the SEC’s rules, and televised live, every road game.
Talk about a sea change. Literally no televised coverage from 1958 until 1975, and then every other Saturday live road games, and tape-delayed home games!!!
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Well, yea I work here, albeit voluntarily
Many including myself have thought we had a chance to push for an East title a couple of times, but that is NOT "passing Georgia and Alabama". In any sport the goal should be to win, so my goal and that of many was to first win the division we play in, that has been also the goal of the team that we support, but a goal is infinitely different than an expectation.
If anyone on here expects us to "pass Georgia and Alabama" please respond accordingly.
I agree with you on Maggard and Peciero but if the UK wagon ever stopped Baker would go halfway up its arse. Never heard a guy kiss so much blue arse and drink the blue koolaid. He’s a radio guy that never hears what his on air partner says. A true homer!! 🤬🤬🤬
This is a reasonable take. To recognize that it's a coin flip if we jettison our best coach ever for a 40-50%? chance we make it to the next level, while also recognizing we could take a slide back towards the mean. I'm a high risk taker too. I quit my stable finance job to live off trading my own assets, so analyzing risk is my full time job. You wanting to go for broke is fine, but you aren't gambling your own money, so pretty easy to take that path. Someone with everything to lose is going to be a bit more pragmatic. Risk management is the key to success and finding opportunities that tilt the scales in your favor are how you continue on the path upward. If I was making the decision, I would not be willing to throw away our upward trajectory that's trending 50% more wins over the 25 year avg in order for a flip the coin chance on improving 10-15% more while risking a 30-50% drop. Mitch has a fiduciary responsibility and that kind of decision gets a Wealth Manager sued by a client when it doesn't work out.
It wasn't all that close. https://floridagators.com/sports/football/opponent-history/university-of-kentucky/32
Kind of like two kids growing up. I comes from a family that values education and he studies from a young age, goes to a great college and now has a great job making lot sof money. Other kid doesn't care about school. Graduates from HS, but gets a job making ok money, but going nowhere, then wakes up one day and says what was I thinking? Now he returns to school at 35 years old gets great grades and gets a much better job than he had, but he's not making anywhere near what the other kid was making and he is 15 years behind in climbing the ladder. Yeah the future looks brighter for the second kid, but to say the past doesn't matter in relation to the first kid seems ignorant. Without some black swan type of good luck the second kid is not catching the first.
My expectations have never changed. Take Ala, Ga, LSU out of the equation, be as good or better than the rest and not get embarrassed by anyone. As I've said before, HS had that vision of Stoops when he almost got the job and he was a hell of a lot better coach than MS will ever be. Shame we didn't have ad then that cared about anything but basketball.
Agreed. Although Stoops drives me nuts at times, I would ride with him while increasing the support.
Quantitative, not poetic, but a damn fine post!!
The Spurrier thing is blown out of proportion. He definitely took them to the next level, but they weren't some terrible program before him and I imagine were well ahead of us then too. They even finished in the top 10 three times in the 80's prior to his arrival. Between 1950 - 1990 (Spurrier's first year), they only had 6 losing seasons in 40 years. We had 22 losing seasons in the same time frame.
I keep hearing this silly argument. Who do you think we have now passed up in the SEC in money spent on FB? You do realize the TV money benefitted everyone?
I do think we should expect more from Stoops in year 11. I also recognize how difficult it is for traditionally mediocre programs to take that next step into a consistent top 25 program. The only programs that have been to able to do that over the last 50 years and sustain that standard are Oregon, FSU and Clemson. There have been other programs like Kansas State, TCU, Miami and VaTech who have had periods of success, but have not been able to sustain it.
Under Stoops, we have had success (12-8 overall and 10-2 since 2018) against teams ranked 11 - 25. But we have lost some terrible games and continue to lay eggs against the big dogs. Our next step has to be to continue our success against the teams ranked outside the top 10, win the games we are supposed to and close the gap against the big dogs. I believe that gets you into the 9 - 10 win area on a consistent basis. Then look at the step after that.
Under Stoops, we have had success (12-8 overall and 10-2 since 2018) against teams ranked 11 - 25. But we have lost some terrible games and continue to lay eggs against the big dogs. Our next step has to be to continue our success against the teams ranked outside the top 10, win the games we are supposed to and close the gap against the big dogs. I believe that gets you into the 9 - 10 win area on a consistent basis. Then look at the step after that.
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