Would you really be surprised if we did? After the Afghanistan withdrawal I wouldnt be.
The Ukraine war. (Yes, we'll mind our manners)
- Thread starter BigBlueFanGA
- Start date
No, that's not what I said. I did not say we started the war, but that we (Ukraine and the West) wanted it to happen. We could have prevented it but chose not to.
Both sides are filled with bad actors that are achieving ends they otherwise could not through peace. Caught in between are hundreds of thousands dead, millions otherwise displaced or ruined. It's not funny.
They are incompetent only when it's useful to "your" "argument."
The rest of the time, they know exactly what Putin thinks, exactly what his intentions are/were, and exactly how they are going to defeat him.
If they went all the way to kyiv and through use of force were repelled all the way back - why do they need us? Sounds like they are more than capable on their own.
Either they didn't invade and Ukraine doesn't need us or they did and Ukraine beat them back, which also means they don't need us.
There is literally zero logic behind any argument we be involved at all, let alone to the extent we are and plan to be.
So Ukraine won one battle and they don't need us? Lol, what kind of logic is that? The Russian millitary was a joke in 2022. They've regrouped and gotten better.
If your capital city is under siege and you beat back the invaders miles and miles - yes, thats proof they are capable.
Even if they weren't - so what? Its two bad actors fighting amongst themselves with the prize being a section of the country who wants to rejoin Russia. Who are we to tell those people what to do?
Even if you dont believe the latter, its still two bad actors fighting amongst themselves. Who cares?
You keep leaving out the coup during the Maidan revolution and the pro government faction that was murdered after that coup. You ignore all that because it totally destroys your narrative.
So once again... the duly elected president of Ukraine was run out of the capital by US backed neo nazi groups. When people who voted for that president showed up to protest the neo nazi groups locked them in a building and set the building on fire. The people in the East of Ukraine wanted autonomy after that act of insane violence. Those neo nazi groups then militarized and attacked the East. Pretending that Rus just attacked your house for no reason when the fact is that you beat your wife and her brother showed up to kick your ass.... That is closer to what happened.
I'll bet you thought the black ledger was real and that Putin had a pee tape of Trump... I'll bet you thought Putin gave Trump a deal on the Trump hotel in Moscow in order to secure his support.... even though there isn't a Trump hotel in Moscow. LOL.
It's not appeasing Putin. It's minding our own business. Putin wouldn't have invaded if we weren't arming and training Ukr soldiers and participated in a coup of the Ukr President. Plus... We told Europe they needed to live up to their agreement to spend just 2% of their gdp on military and only 2 countries were. We can't afford to act like we did in the Bush era. We are broke, our military is the smallest it's been since before ww2 and we have tons of people in our military without any desire to fight.
Well you got that part right. Russia had no ability to mount a threat to Europe before this war. Now they are getting experience and the spending to become the threat you guys said they were. You have created the monster you claimed to want to stop.
I remember when Ukr counter offensive was going to be in Crimea in a few months. Over 50,000 Rus troops would be surrounded and would throw down their weapons and surrender..... LOL.
They asked for that and were rebuffed. There is a part of our government that wants to put military bases in Russia. Russia won't be allowed to trade with the west until they submit to globalism and surrender.... For people that keep claiming countries deserve the right to fight when threatened... You all have no awareness to facts.
We pulled out of the nuke treaty without even telling Russia. We started and continued arming and training Ukr even after Rus told us of their concerns.
Well you need to be honest about facts... Nobody is an isolationist. We can do trade and diplomacy with other nations but don't need to interfere in domestic issues in foreign countries. Also, peace through strength is wrong in this scenario because we are literally weakening our military every day. We are burning through stockpiles and are losing troops to retirement with few new recruits signing up due to low morale.
Being a bully and walking around slapping people and then acted offended when someone slaps back is missing the point of our argument. We are forcing India to ally with China and Russ to ally with China and India. We are making enemies out of people that don't need to be an enemy. Russ and India should have been key pieces to isolating China but now we are helping to create a new axis power. Congrats I guess.
If I am willing to hire you for legal work and would be willing to sell you magazine subscriptions doesn't mean that I have to get involved in your marriage and the raising of your kids. Boundaries don't make you an isolationist.
Which now they are. And nice Russian talking points. You know that revolt was because the Russian puppet government, wouldn't sign a trade agreement with the EU, right? That was the Ukrainians wanting closer ties to the west. But their Puppet government refusing to do so. Probaly not, knowing you.
This might be the most assclown thing you've ever said. They are going to run out of IFVs in December. And are going to North Korea for missles. But sure, they're now ''becoming the threat''.
You're no less diseased by politics than that guy.
Wait.
There’s still people who actually support this ridiculous war?
Un freaking believable.
There’s still people who actually support this ridiculous war?
Un freaking believable.
That's because you project what you need to in order to justify bad policy. America first means just that. Ukraine doesn't care about you. They just want your money. They were stealing credit cards and Identities before this war kicked off and now they just get the money without having to scam.
So you are saying that it's OK to commit a coup instead of waiting for an election as long as globalist agree with it? LOL.
As long as you ignore all consequences on the global stage now and in the future. This is about more than Ukraine. This is about Taiwan and the Arctic and the future. Cave now and the next thirty years are a lot worse for all of us. Investment in the future is necessary whether you like the cost or not.
They were either going to get a ~15 billion dollar loan from the IMF or from Russia.
Their (democratically elected) Russian puppet regime was then ousted in the name of "democracy." Whaddyaknow? They got the loan from the West and now we own some 30% of their farmland.
Whodathunkit?
This message brought to you by the same idiots who created this mess in the first place.
Yes.
Their (democratically elected) Russian puppet regime was then ousted in the name of "democracy." Whaddyaknow? They got the loan from the West and now we own some 30% of their farmland.
Whodathunkit?
This message brought to you by the same idiots who created this mess in the first place.
Yes.
This is BS. The U.S. does not have to enter every foreign conflict to protect its interests elsewhere in the future. Just not so. Taiwan is not better positioned because Ukraine is getting US moneys any more than it is because Israel has US support. Ukraine and Taiwan are nothing similar and Taiwan and the rest of the world, including China, know it.
Meanwhile, China also knows we are weaker because of Ukraine. We cannot build munitions fast enough to supply the “need” in Ukraine.
We know this administration does not believe this spin, either, because it thought Russia would take Ukraine quickly and still did very little to stop the war.
And, all of this rides on the dead bodies of Ukrainians. So easy for the warhawks to push.
Why do we give a shit about Taiwan?
If the answer is chip manufacturing, we’d be a hell of a lot better off setting up manufacturing plants in the Midwest, than we are blowing hundreds of billions of dollars and goodwill funding Ukraine to prevent China from thinking they can take Taiwan.
If the answer is we don’t want China ruling other countries, well we better get rid of half of Washington.
If the answer is chip manufacturing, we’d be a hell of a lot better off setting up manufacturing plants in the Midwest, than we are blowing hundreds of billions of dollars and goodwill funding Ukraine to prevent China from thinking they can take Taiwan.
If the answer is we don’t want China ruling other countries, well we better get rid of half of Washington.
Given the cavalier attitude towards foreign warships 90 miles off the coast, it’s probably best we don’t set up critical manufacturing infrastructure in Miami.
We dropped the ball on chips which led to deference to Taiwan and it is my understanding that we are a matter of years away from getting up to speed.
One article states that the U.S. plans to produce 20% of the world’s leading edge chips by 2030.
Speaking of taiwan, like i said in this very thread months ago: there is an exponentially better case to be made to intervene on behalf of Taiwan. Taiwan is defenseless, not a bad actor, and actually has strategic value to the us via manufacturing. Plus china is actually openly pursuing world domination and are more than capable of accomplishing it.
Too bad taiwan didn't consider paying millions to western politicians.
Too bad taiwan didn't consider paying millions to western politicians.
They do. It’s how things work. You can hate it but unless you change it complaining does nothing.
I sure didn't, my friend
i did look up the sale / confirmed they're supposed to deliver this fall
Go cats
Good talking with ya, CatFan 5000
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I
Am saddened to have forgotten what this conversation was about, my Big Blue Brother
BUT - i bet we could hash it out
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