They are an ally to many of our politicians who have taken advantage of their corruption to launder lots and lots of money back to themselves.
The Ukraine war. (Yes, we'll mind our manners)
- Thread starter BigBlueFanGA
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They are an ally to many of our politicians who have taken advantage of their corruption to launder lots and lots of money back to themselves.
Exactly. People act like a dying Russia wouldn't want to at least make a significant attack on US home soil if they knew they were losing their country and were about to be a puppet of nato. It's like they weren't awake during the last 24 years.
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Yet you hate Trump too. You seem to be the only guy that doesn't like anyone running for office yet seems to support the absolute worst thing they are doing to this country. Weird.
The difference is that we had plausible deniability about our involvement. They even made a movie about it you might have seen "Charlie Wilson's War".... Now we not only admit we are funding and shipping stuff over there... we brag about the deaths we caused. Reagan would have never done that and to suggest that is ignorant of his legacy.
It's like he doesn't realize the missiles on those ships can travel over 1000 miles. Does it matter if they are 90 miles or 200 miles off the coast? LOL.
Non aggression is the cornerstone to libertarianism. Dude claims to be libertarian and can't even clear that first hurdle. LOL.
When did Ukraine become an ally of ours? We have never ratified a treaty. They have never once helped us internationally. They were actually the #1 nation for stealing identities of US citizens for credit card and loan frauds. They are the most corrupt country in Europe. They also did more to involve themselves in the 2016 election than Russia did. Look into the black ledger and wher Steele got his info of Trump... LOL.
Opinion: Decrease in US Support for Ukraine Tied to Russian Intelligence Operations
A recently declassified US intelligence report shows a direct correlation between the current impasse in the US Congress on aid to Ukraine and Russian intelligence operations.
www.kyivpost.com
Russian forces, surrounded on three sides with the Dnipro River at their back, were allowed to take heavy casualties for months after the bridges by which they were supplied were destroyed by HIMARS missles.
Russia publicly announced its withdrawal from Kherson on November 9 - the day after the November 8 election. The casualties were sustained solely for the purposes of influencing public opinion in the US, targeting Republicans to reduce support for Ukraine. The Russian narrative was enthusiastically picked up by political and media supporters of Donald Trump.
Fox News repeated a string of Kremlin talking points intended to undermine US support for the defense of Ukraine from the continued Russian invasion, going so far as to cast Ukraine as the aggressor.
This is the first major American corporation to announce plans to manufacture arms in Ukraine.
Among Republican politicians, Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia has led the way in normalizing extremist pro-Russian propaganda, making a public appearance at a pro-Putin rally and calling the defense of Ukraine a corrupt scheme. She citied a Russian propaganda outlet that was sanctioned by the US Treasury Department over alleged interference in the 2020 presidential elections as her source.
On the US Senate side, Tommy Tuberville of Alabama blames Democrats, claiming Democrats “created” the war in Ukraine - exactly parroting the Kremlin influence operation, and has gone so far as to green-light a Russian takeover of Ukraine, opining against all contrary evidence that he sees no risk of further Russian aggression once Ukraine is subdued.
Donald Trump, who campaigned by praising Putin for invading Crimea and took up the call to end sanctions against Russia as a primary foreign policy goal, personally fed pro-Kremlin narratives, including unsupported, self-serving conspiracy theories that have their origin with Russian intelligence. One element of the first impeachment was Trump’s attempt to pressure President Zelensky into announcing an investigation into whether it was Ukraine, not Russia, that hacked the DNC and disseminated emails embarrassing to the Clinton campaign prior to the 2016 election.
According to the National Intelligence Council, Russian intelligence specifically targeted the MAGA audience, catering to the same audience carefully conditioned to be receptive to the message. The report cites the focus before the 2022 election on asking why the US should help Ukraine instead of solving social and domestic problems?
Indeed it is. Until you are attacked. Then force is allowed. Russia’s actions are a form of aggression, as they involve the use of force to achieve political goals. Ukraine has the right to defend itself against Russia’s invasion.
In your view, your house is attacked, and you simply walk away.
I hate Trump? Lol, how? Because I call out his fringe followers? It's just like every other political party. There's fringe guys like you, and normal people.
Russian military commanders, in cooperation with the Kremlin propaganda campaign, delayed withdrawal from Kherson to prevent giving Democrats a positive takeaway on Ukraine prior to the 2022 midterms, according to intelligence reported by the CIA, FBI, NSA, Homeland Security and the State Department between June and December of 2022.Opinion: Decrease in US Support for Ukraine Tied to Russian Intelligence Operations
A recently declassified US intelligence report shows a direct correlation between the current impasse in the US Congress on aid to Ukraine and Russian intelligence operations.
Russian forces, surrounded on three sides with the Dnipro River at their back, were allowed to take heavy casualties for months after the bridges by which they were supplied were destroyed by HIMARS missles.
Russia publicly announced its withdrawal from Kherson on November 9 - the day after the November 8 election. The casualties were sustained solely for the purposes of influencing public opinion in the US, targeting Republicans to reduce support for Ukraine. The Russian narrative was enthusiastically picked up by political and media supporters of Donald Trump.
Fox News repeated a string of Kremlin talking points intended to undermine US support for the defense of Ukraine from the continued Russian invasion, going so far as to cast Ukraine as the aggressor.
This is the first major American corporation to announce plans to manufacture arms in Ukraine.
Among Republican politicians, Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia has led the way in normalizing extremist pro-Russian propaganda, making a public appearance at a pro-Putin rally and calling the defense of Ukraine a corrupt scheme. She citied a Russian propaganda outlet that was sanctioned by the US Treasury Department over alleged interference in the 2020 presidential elections as her source.
On the US Senate side, Tommy Tuberville of Alabama blames Democrats, claiming Democrats “created” the war in Ukraine - exactly parroting the Kremlin influence operation, and has gone so far as to green-light a Russian takeover of Ukraine, opining against all contrary evidence that he sees no risk of further Russian aggression once Ukraine is subdued.
Donald Trump, who campaigned by praising Putin for invading Crimea and took up the call to end sanctions against Russia as a primary foreign policy goal, personally fed pro-Kremlin narratives, including unsupported, self-serving conspiracy theories that have their origin with Russian intelligence. One element of the first impeachment was Trump’s attempt to pressure President Zelensky into announcing an investigation into whether it was Ukraine, not Russia, that hacked the DNC and disseminated emails embarrassing to the Clinton campaign prior to the 2016 election.
According to the National Intelligence Council, Russian intelligence specifically targeted the MAGA audience, catering to the same audience carefully conditioned to be receptive to the message. The report cites the focus before the 2022 election on asking why the US should help Ukraine instead of solving social and domestic problems?
lol the irony of someone who can’t logically support any of his positions, but whose positions fall directly in line with every major US and world politician, the entirety of the corporate news media and every social media influencer, accusing others of falling for propaganda.
Most of us, if not all, are American. If you’re Ukrainian, and “your house” was attacked, feel free to enlist in the Ukrainian army and defend yourself, but leave us out of it.
Lol, being strung along by Russian propaganda is hilarious. I know it hurts to be duped. Stop deflecting.
Like I said, Fox news and tweets.
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Great well reasoned argument as always.
Not as stupid as you claiming US involvement in Ukraine would somehow align with libertarian ideology, but close.
You don’t have to oppose the war just because every other libertarian does. But you could just say, “on US involvement in disputes between two independent countries, I align more with Democrats, Republicans, corporate news media, Dick Cheney, social media influencers and the defense industry than I do libertarians who are victims of propaganda.”
Not every libertarian opposes the war. Just like every ''RINO'' doesn't support it. The common view is they oppose US involvement in the war. But support Ukraine's right to defend their homes.
Now we've got Putin meeting with and pledging solidarity with Kim in N. Korea. The cause of Ukraine is not really about Ukraine. It's demonstrating resistance to Putin so he doesn't believe he can do whatever he wants.
South Korea says it will consider arms deals to Ukraine.
That’s exactly what I said, you dunce. You’ve exercised independent thought, and align more with both major political parties, the military industrial complex and corporate news media on this topic than you do libertarians.
But claiming support for this war is a “libertarian” position is laughably stupid.
As noted in the Cato Institute’s definition of the NAP (Non-agression principle), using force to defend oneself against the initiation of aggression is sometimes warranted. It must additionally be acknowledged that assisting another person in defending herself from aggression is also sometimes morally right. If my neighbor’s house is regularly assailed by thieves, and my neighbor asks for my baseball bat to help defend herself and her property, I may be morally justified, or even obligated, to lend her the bat. Likewise, if a country is being victimized by the illegitimate aggression of another country, other countries may be morally justified, or even obligated, to lend their support.
lol and how does the Cato institute feel about CIA backed coups and NATO expansion?
How would joining a non-agressive alliance. That requires an invitation. Be against Libertarian views?
Quit lying. This is not about Ukraine being your neighbor. If you were morally obligated, you would advocate for US involvement in every war around the globe where an aggressor invades another. We know that is not your take. And, VH is going to have a rough time with Ukraine being analogized to your neighbor if he gets riled over the phrase “90 miles off the coast.” You are attempting to justify your position by avoiding the truth. Why is that? Why can’t you just say your real reason for wanting US involvement in this war?
Even when I tell the truth, you say I'm lying. What else can I say? You seem to think I want US soldiers on the ground. I just want aid to continue to Ukraine.
I’m sure you can find a link to the Cato Institute’s position on the matters.
I don't really think a guy who wants the bible back in schools, has any room to lecture me on libertarian views.
Chicken or the egg with regard to Kim? If Putin wants to solidly a division in the world along the “for and against the U.S.,” we have certainly played along.
But, at least that is an honest response and you are not pretending this war is about a libertarian moral obligation.
The war has many different reasons for support. Moral obligations, deterence against Putin and Russia, showing China that they won't be allowed to invade Taiwan, etc etc.
No, because of that exact obligation. It's like I said. If my neighbor's house was broken into. And he asked me for a bat to defend himself from the burglars. I'd have a moral obligation to give him the bat.
One week ago we signed a ten year bilateral security pact with them. I know you like Trump but you all are on the wrong side of this one. Why is appeasing Putin ok here? How is this any different than saying Hitler will stop with Poland?
This is the result of 8 years of Russian misinformation campagins. They work.
No one believes your moral obligation explanation as a way to prove you are a libertarian.
lol when you can back up your argument, make up lies about what the other person has said and deflect.
Like you deflect at the report by the US government. Proving that Russia has been pumping all the talking points, you've been making for 2 years? Sure, I guess.
If we hadn't just lived through covid, I never would've expected so many people to be so irrevocably obtuse and cocksure.
And so easily manipulated.
There's no substantive difference between this thread and the one which accidentally disappeared other than the magnitude of the consequence of such ignorance.
And so easily manipulated.
There's no substantive difference between this thread and the one which accidentally disappeared other than the magnitude of the consequence of such ignorance.
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