The Ukraine war. (Yes, we'll mind our manners)

[Caveman Catfan]

Feb 2024 -

“Washington’s aid to Ukraine, whose forces are firing more than 6,000 artillery rounds a day, includes munitions pulled from the Pentagon’s stock. But as many have noted, this draws down high-end munitions the U.S. would desperately need in a conflict with China. In such a war, the Center for Strategic and International Studies recently concluded, the U.S. would likely burn through its munitions within three weeks and would be unable to replenish those stocks for more than six months.”

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Feb 2024 -

“Washington’s aid to Ukraine, whose forces are firing more than 6,000 artillery rounds a day, includes munitions pulled from the Pentagon’s stock. But as many have noted, this draws down high-end munitions the U.S. would desperately need in a conflict with China. In such a war, the Center for Strategic and International Studies recently concluded, the U.S. would likely burn through its munitions within three weeks and would be unable to replenish those stocks for more than six months.”

They're shooting 6000 rounds a day???

 

[Caveman Catfan]

They're shooting 6000 rounds a day???

Quote from a retired officer’s opinion piece.

Here is another.

America Must Remedy Its Dangerous Lack of Munitions Planning

Since the end of the Cold War, the U.S. has not bought and built enough munitions to keep pace with the military operations the President and Congress have tasked the Department of Defense (DOD) with conducting. In 2014, the U.S. discovered that it lacked enough precision-guided missiles to take...

www.heritage.org

 

[Caveman Catfan]

They're shooting 6000 rounds a day???

To rebuild America's arsenal, rehabilitate the National Defense Stockpile—and prioritize critical munitions

Our munitions stockpiles and production capacity are not just inadequate; they are a glaring vulnerability.

www.defenseone.com

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Quote from a retired officer’s opinion piece.

Here is another.

America Must Remedy Its Dangerous Lack of Munitions Planning

Since the end of the Cold War, the U.S. has not bought and built enough munitions to keep pace with the military operations the President and Congress have tasked the Department of Defense (DOD) with conducting. In 2014, the U.S. discovered that it lacked enough precision-guided missiles to take...

www.heritage.org

I have no doubt someone said it. I'm just surprised at the number.

 

[Spica Orbit]

Feb 2024 -

“Washington’s aid to Ukraine, whose forces are firing more than 6,000 artillery rounds a day, includes munitions pulled from the Pentagon’s stock. But as many have noted, this draws down high-end munitions the U.S. would desperately need in a conflict with China. In such a war, the Center for Strategic and International Studies recently concluded, the U.S. would likely burn through its munitions within three weeks and would be unable to replenish those stocks for more than six months.”

----
6000 a day? Baloney.

 

[vhcat70]

I don't know if 6K is supposed to be high or low. That's less than 8/minute across the country for 12 hours.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I don't know if 6K is supposed to be high or low. That's less than 8/minute across the country for 12 hours.

Bottomline - it has damaged our readiness and defense.

 

[bcw1029]

NATO was engineered for the interests of the region. Now, though, non-NATO MEMBER Ukraine’s interests are our interests.

Haven’t you questioned this contradiction?

The Eastern European NATO countries that are sensitive to this after Soviet occupation would disagree with that assessment. Ironically, the Russian invasion has been instrumental in NATO’s enlargement minus some exceptions like Hungary, something Putin didn’t see coming and not an ideal consequence. Now, if they would just up their defense spending….

 

[bcw1029]

Bottomline - it has damaged our readiness and defense.

Fair point. And very concerning, if accurate.

 

[hmt5000]

You don't know that unless you have Putin's direct line & you speak with each other. Admit that's possible for you.

Sorry Olde. All signs show that Russia tried to avoid this going to hot war. Our State Dept and CIA thought they could just run all over Ukr and do what they wanted with military bases and training.... Turns out.... Putin wasn't lying about Ukr being a redline. Not that you have to like it, but it was absolutely known that Rus said this is exactly what they would do if we kept doing what we were doing.

 

[hmt5000]

Feb 2024 -

“Washington’s aid to Ukraine, whose forces are firing more than 6,000 artillery rounds a day, includes munitions pulled from the Pentagon’s stock. But as many have noted, this draws down high-end munitions the U.S. would desperately need in a conflict with China. In such a war, the Center for Strategic and International Studies recently concluded, the U.S. would likely burn through its munitions within three weeks and would be unable to replenish those stocks for more than six months.”

Yep... People love to say we are just sending all our old stuff that is about to expire... But it's a hodge podge of both. It's why we were sending cluster munitions... we didn't have enough of standard shells. We still aren't producing Patriot missiles as fast as we are using them in Ukr and ME. Then you add in that only 25% to 50% of our fighter jets are available to fly on any given day.

 

[hmt5000]

To rebuild America's arsenal, rehabilitate the National Defense Stockpile—and prioritize critical munitions

Our munitions stockpiles and production capacity are not just inadequate; they are a glaring vulnerability.

www.defenseone.com

Not that it wasn't going down before him but he sure did drive a nail in our production capability.

 

[hmt5000]

----
6000 a day? Baloney.

Experts are saying Russia is shooting 10000 per day. It was 6000 to 1000 last summer and thats why we were trying so hard to scrounge up anything we could to ship to UKR. It's also why drones were being used so heavily. They just didn't have the artillery to shoot at some targets.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Sorry Olde. All signs show that Russia tried to avoid this going to hot war. Our State Dept and CIA thought they could just run all over Ukr and do what they wanted with military bases and training.... Turns out.... Putin wasn't lying about Ukr being a redline. Not that you have to like it, but it was absolutely known that Rus said this is exactly what they would do if we kept doing what we were doing.

It's literally that simple. Us and nato kept pushing the envelope till they hit the redline they were always told was the redline.

 

[vhcat70]

Sorry Olde. All signs show that Russia tried to avoid this going to hot war. Our State Dept and CIA thought they could just run all over Ukr and do what they wanted with military bases and training.... Turns out.... Putin wasn't lying about Ukr being a redline. Not that you have to like it, but it was absolutely known that Rus said this is exactly what they would do if we kept doing what we were doing.

"All signs show" is as definitive as it gets, LOL.

And they keep attacking. No sign that they have a limited objective.

 

[warrior-cat]

They're shooting 6000 rounds a day???

Easy to do really. Our battalion alone shot over 2000 in 2 days during the Gulf War. That was 24 Howitzers shooting 208lb projectiles.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Easy to do really. Our battalion alone shot over 2000 in 2 days during the Gulf War. That was 24 Howitzers shooting 208lb projectiles.

I have no doubt about that. I'm just skeptical of it happening daily in this campaign.

 

[warrior-cat]

Yep... People love to say we are just sending all our old stuff that is about to expire... But it's a hodge podge of both. It's why we were sending cluster munitions... we didn't have enough of standard shells. We still aren't producing Patriot missiles as fast as we are using them in Ukr and ME. Then you add in that only 25% to 50% of our fighter jets are available to fly on any given day.

Some munitions companies have been stockpiling ammo because it is not being bought so, there is still some in reserve. Not sure how much each has but there is some that has not been bought by the US government.

 

[warrior-cat]

I have no doubt about that. I'm just skeptical of it happening daily in this campaign.

It would definitely burn through rounds quickly and there would have to be a steady stream of replacements which would require many secure logistics routes.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Saw a headline that said Putin is considering sending arms and munitions to enemies of the west. Fitting. I don't think they have the capacity to do that because their all in on self preservation, but I think the message is clever.

 

[RunninRichie]

Saw a headline that said Putin is considering sending arms and munitions to enemies of the west. Fitting. I don't think they have the capacity to do that because their all in on self preservation, but I think the message is clever.

Means he'll probably arm some terror groups in the ME.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Means he'll probably arm some terror groups in the ME.

He'll have to get in line behind us because we do a good enough job at arming them ourselves.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Some munitions companies have been stockpiling ammo because it is not being bought so, there is still some in reserve. Not sure how much each has but there is some that has not been bought by the US government.

The munitions industry in this country is, chiefly, antiquated and unable to keep up with the current demand. It’s almost like we still think it is 1960.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Saw a headline that said Putin is considering sending arms and munitions to enemies of the west. Fitting. I don't think they have the capacity to do that because their all in on self preservation, but I think the message is clever.

The worst thing he could possibly do would be to set up shop in Mexico and sponsor an invasion of foreign fighting age men.

But the US government is already doing that.

So he might as well just invest his money in bitcoin or something.

 

[Spica Orbit]

Look Who's Spreading Disinformation on Ukraine

'Black kettle' Tony Blinken' accused Russia of spreading propaganda to mislead the Americans and Europeans, while hiding US decision to escalate the

www.counterpunch.org

 

[warrior-cat]

The munitions industry in this country is, chiefly, antiquated and unable to keep up with the current demand. It’s almost like we still think it is 1960.

Most of that is due to the US buying much of its munitions from China and Russia in the past. It is also the reason that some of our companies have a lot stockpiled albeit old ammo. Probably cheaper in the past to buy from China and Russia but given things as they are today, that is not a reliable source going forward. There is a motion to start buying and using more US companies for ammo, but it will take some time. Our past and current governments have been negligent in keeping the US self-reliant on military supplies. Sound familiar?

 

[vhcat70]

Saw a headline that said Putin is considering sending arms and munitions to enemies of the west. Fitting. I don't think they have the capacity to do that because their all in on self preservation, but I think the message is clever.

Sounds like 5000's "All signs show".

 

[vhcat70]

The munitions industry in this country is, chiefly, antiquated and unable to keep up with the current demand. It’s almost like we still think it is 1960.

Should help keep unemployment down.

 

[vhcat70]

Most of that is due to the US buying much of its munitions from China and Russia in the past. It is also the reason that some of our companies have a lot stockpiled albeit old ammo. Probably cheaper in the past to buy from China and Russia but given things as they are today, that is not a reliable source going forward. There is a motion to start buying and using more US companies for ammo, but it will take some time. Our past and current governments have been negligent in keeping the US self-reliant on military supplies. Sound familiar?

Like 1939.

 

[warrior-cat]

Like 1939.

What? Do you remember those days?

 

[vhcat70]

What? Do you remember those days?

No. Talking military preparedness - at least that's what I got from the post.

 

[warrior-cat]

No. Talking military preparedness - at least that's what I got from the post.

You missed the humor there.

 

[hmt5000]

Some munitions companies have been stockpiling ammo because it is not being bought so, there is still some in reserve. Not sure how much each has but there is some that has not been bought by the US government.

True... I've heard that we have been buying similar shells from Africa and converting them to our shells... Not sure of specifics but it was suggested we needed the casings. I don't know that is the bottleneck for our production of shells but we are apparently paying top dollar for 70's era arty shells from all over the world.

 

[hmt5000]

Means he'll probably arm some terror groups in the ME.

Did you know that there have been 3 reported cases of muslim illegal immigrants trying to enter military bases or following military members home? .... Ft Bragg soldiers are saying this is more common than being reported. SF soldier confronted 2 Chechen illegals and police were called is why that one finally got reported, but do you honestly look at terror groups in the ME armed by Russia as super bad, yet our own government is letting unvetted muslims cross our border and we get crickets.

 

[hmt5000]

Most of that is due to the US buying much of its munitions from China and Russia in the past. It is also the reason that some of our companies have a lot stockpiled albeit old ammo. Probably cheaper in the past to buy from China and Russia but given things as they are today, that is not a reliable source going forward. There is a motion to start buying and using more US companies for ammo, but it will take some time. Our past and current governments have been negligent in keeping the US self-reliant on military supplies. Sound familiar?

I heard one guy say that Obama shut down a couple of smelting plants due to environmental reasons but they were needed to produce bronze and led... Again... not sure on truth but the guy I watched was ripping off dates and EO's.

 

[hmt5000]

Sounds like 5000's "All signs show".

I live in your head cheaper than the section 8 renters that fund your life.

 

[RunninRichie]

Did you know that there have been 3 reported cases of muslim illegal immigrants trying to enter military bases or following military members home? .... Ft Bragg soldiers are saying this is more common than being reported. SF soldier confronted 2 Chechen illegals and police were called is why that one finally got reported, but do you honestly look at terror groups in the ME armed by Russia as super bad, yet our own government is letting unvetted muslims cross our border and we get crickets.

I don't know why you keep treating the border deal as a gotcha. Yeah, it's bad. We have money to support Ukraine and deal with the border.

 

[hmt5000]

I don't know why you keep treating the border deal as a gotcha. Yeah, it's bad. We have money to support Ukraine and deal with the border.

Oh yea. It's the old... "we can walk and chew bubblegum"... Except we are 300 pound basement dwellers that haven't walked a step in 15 years... How about we walk 2 miles before we ever chew bubblegum again?????




You really want to go to ww3 with this same group in charge? they left US soldiers at Abby gate to die without a chain of command. You don't think they'd do it again out of sheer incompetence?

 

[Bill Cosby]

How many times since the 60’s has Russia sent fleets of warships to Cuba?