Steve Kerr and Clark Kellogg summarize everything that is wrong with Cal's tournament coaching...
- Thread starter Son_Of_Saul
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So you are saying you can’t read and have fantasies of Richard Simmons walking like a duck? If I were you, I might have kept that to myself, but it explains a great deal about you.Instead of reading the words you write when you respond to me, this is what I see in my mind whenever you post:
Like crap for everybody with the NIL abomination and the Portal debacle.
And he keeps his horses on the court but doesn't let them play
Point still stands. Had KU had another 5 minutes, we lose. I know we give Self hell about that comment, but he wasn’t wrong. My step FIL knows someone that was at the game and MKG was telling Cal to let them run and play aggressive. Cal said, “NO, you slow it down!”Did Kerr and Kellogg analyze how Cal climbed the ladder to cut em' down?
Lehigh beat pUKe in that tournament as well.
We avenged IU's superbowl and blasted them when it counted.![[laughing]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/laugh.r191677.gif "Laughing [laughing]")
I was at the game and totally disagree. Never felt in doubt. Saying we would have lost had it gone 5 more minutes is goofy.
Have my lower level ticket encased. What a night. Couldn’t imagine a UK fan kicking rocks about that game. Unbelievable. Embarrassing.
Whether you were there or not is irrelevant. That’s what I mean. Lulz
That championship night in 2012, Cal’s 2nd-best UK team (per KenPom) beat Bill Self’s 9th-best KU team (per KenPom, dating back to 2002 team). KU’s offense was ranked 23rd that season, and UK’s 2nd. No KU fan expected THAT KU team (of all KU teams) to be in that Final Four, let alone challenge for a championship. (Three of KU’s 2012 tourney wins were by 3 points or fewer.) UK was clearly the more talented team, and it shouldn’t have been a close game…and it mostly wasn’t. I doubt five more minutes would’ve made a big difference, but ten more might’ve. I think Self is a far superior X’s & O’s strategist, compared to Cal, but Cal is the superior motivator and strategist ONLY WITH super-brand-new teams (so his new teams play super confidently and well, together, during summer games and during the first month or two of the season). And John Robic is the tactician that Cal’s been sorely missing. (All three men were KU assistants.) How much of a coincidence is it that Cal’s record without Robic is very different?
Fyi, That UK team had the 15th-best-ever KenPom score (dating back to 2002).
Best-ever team (cumulative) KenPom scores, 2002-2023:
36.91 2015 Kentucky
36.48 2021 Gonzaga
35.21 2008 Kansas (Champ)
34.22 2019 Virginia (Champ)
34.19 2002 Duke
33.76 2018 Nova (amazing offensive team) - Champ
33.87 2021 Baylor (who EASILY beat 2021 Gonzaga, who are, for some reason, ranked higher than them = see above = a flaw in KenPom’s system) - Champ
33.72 2015 Wisconsin (amazing offensive team)
33.47 2011 Ohio State
33.29 2010 Duke (‘10 KU & UK were also great that season: KU’s KenPom score = 31.85 [ranked 2nd in offense and 8th in defense]; UK: 26.54 [ranked 22nd in offense and 6th in defense]. Duke was ranked 1st in offense and 5th in defense. Strength of Schedules: Duke: 4th, Kansas 16th (with only 1 tourney win, and it was absolutely one of the most crushing tourney losses in KU history, considering KU’s depth, talent, and what the other team had to do to beat them = it’s hardly possible for Northern Iowa to have hit more timely and gutsy/crazy shots than they did. Even their centers were stepping back for 3’s!🤬), Kentucky’s SOS = 55th in 2010 = which is low, even after making it as far as the Elite Eight.)
32.92 2013 Louisville - Won the Championship on the court, but the NCAA took it away
32.85 2019 Gonzaga
32.77 2005 UNC - Champ
32.68 2005 Illinois
32.59 2012 Kentucky - Champ
Fyi, That UK team had the 15th-best-ever KenPom score (dating back to 2002).
Best-ever team (cumulative) KenPom scores, 2002-2023:
36.91 2015 Kentucky
36.48 2021 Gonzaga
35.21 2008 Kansas (Champ)
34.22 2019 Virginia (Champ)
34.19 2002 Duke
33.76 2018 Nova (amazing offensive team) - Champ
33.87 2021 Baylor (who EASILY beat 2021 Gonzaga, who are, for some reason, ranked higher than them = see above = a flaw in KenPom’s system) - Champ
33.72 2015 Wisconsin (amazing offensive team)
33.47 2011 Ohio State
33.29 2010 Duke (‘10 KU & UK were also great that season: KU’s KenPom score = 31.85 [ranked 2nd in offense and 8th in defense]; UK: 26.54 [ranked 22nd in offense and 6th in defense]. Duke was ranked 1st in offense and 5th in defense. Strength of Schedules: Duke: 4th, Kansas 16th (with only 1 tourney win, and it was absolutely one of the most crushing tourney losses in KU history, considering KU’s depth, talent, and what the other team had to do to beat them = it’s hardly possible for Northern Iowa to have hit more timely and gutsy/crazy shots than they did. Even their centers were stepping back for 3’s!🤬), Kentucky’s SOS = 55th in 2010 = which is low, even after making it as far as the Elite Eight.)
32.92 2013 Louisville - Won the Championship on the court, but the NCAA took it away
32.85 2019 Gonzaga
32.77 2005 UNC - Champ
32.68 2005 Illinois
32.59 2012 Kentucky - Champ
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Good thing Cal came here or we would have prolly had to watch a Memphis/Kansas rematch in 2012 because Davis and MKG were going wherever he was. We wouldn’t have even have been near the championship and would have had to watch Louisville go further that year. But he came here and so did they, thankfully.
Kansas could have had 50000000000000000000000 more minutes and they would have still lost. 15 point game with a tad over 4 minutes left. UK undoubtedly took their foot off the gas a bit, but that game was never ever in doubt.
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"Coach, we can't slow it down !!!"
"Why?"
Because they'll add 5 more minutes to the clock if it gets close!!"
I don't like his tendency to do this.. but he is far FAR from the only coach to clench his butt cheeks at the end of games. It's all too common in sports, and Ive never fully understood the thought process. Keep doing what you did to get you into this lead in the first place. Don't change the game plan and play stall ball.
Lmao okay. Sure glad MKG got that baseline block. Point it, no reason it should’ve ever been that close. We had a vastly more talented team. Normally, the less talented team slows the game down, not the other way around.
15 point game with just over 4 minutes left. KU made a little run. Nothing more than that. Game was never in doubt except to those who make things up.
I was getting yammered during that Kentucky/Kansas title game, mostly out of sheer nerves..
But as I recall, it never really felt like Kansas truly had a chance to take that game from us. Of course, I felt nervous as they made runs here and there, but we just always had a counter punch, and our top guys like Davis and MKG still felt like they had another gear or two to go to, if needed. Just my opinion on the game. Kind of felt like that was our B-game and we were just game managing until the inevitable title.. taking little risks, playing it safe for Cal's 1st title.
But as I recall, it never really felt like Kansas truly had a chance to take that game from us. Of course, I felt nervous as they made runs here and there, but we just always had a counter punch, and our top guys like Davis and MKG still felt like they had another gear or two to go to, if needed. Just my opinion on the game. Kind of felt like that was our B-game and we were just game managing until the inevitable title.. taking little risks, playing it safe for Cal's 1st title.
Totally agree, just see it done in every sport. Had we kept running and Kansas won they'd say he was stupid to keep running. Coach's can't win with fans for the most part.
I sort of GET the strategy.. limit the chances for the other team to have scoring opportunities. I guess I dont disagree with it, IF it works. But if the other team starts to come back, then you need to reassess, and likely go back to what you were doing.
But yeah, you see this in every sport. It's why every single football team opts to run the ball when they are up by a touchdown with 2 min left.
I also think because it was Cal's first title, he was clenched big time, and did not want to let this slip away. Maybe the thought of missed free throws from D. Rose was too fresh in his memory (only what, 4 years prior?), so he figured to slow it down on offense, run the clock, and trust Kentucky's stellar defense to that point. It's not a TERRIBLE idea.. and it also worked lol. Who is to say if MKG didn't launch an ill-advised 3pointer, that Kansas doesn't get a fast break to tie the game.
Davis was controlling the game with his defense and rebounding. They had ZERO chance of overtaking us.
They cut it to 5. Again, never should’ve been that close. We could’ve blown their doors off, had we just stayed aggressive. Nobody’s making anything up. And IIRC, they had possession and could’ve cut it to 3, had it not been for that MKG block.
Too bad some of our other teams weren’t that fortunate, to keep the lead by going into stall mode. 2015 comes immediately to mind. Cal played right into Wisconsin’s hands.
In fairness to 2015.. Cal trusted his team to hold Wisconsin defensively.. and they did for a 35 second shot clock.
The NCAA felt otherwise, though. They felt that Wisconsin deserved a few more seconds to make a play, to ensure Kentucky didn't pull off the impossible.
Pretty sure I understand it quite well. My point was, most teams can be up 8-10 points with 2:00 to go and feel pretty good about their chances. Not with Cal on the sidelines.
I've always believed that MKG block saved the title. And it was a ridiculous block.
Yeah, we were screwed by officials. However, we shouldn’t have ever been in that position. That’s what happens when you take the air out of the ball. This limits your team’s possessions as well. That’s what the lesser talented team does, not the more talented team.
National Championship or any regular game, this is Cal’s coaching playbook. You will see the same this year, at least we have guards and wings that can get their own shots. Squeezing the ball and attack with 7-8 seconds left in the possession. IMO
There’s no way Cal breaks out stall ball with THIS team, with THESE guards/wings/shooters…right?
He went stall ball with Teague, Lamb, and MKG. He went stall ball with Fox and Monk.
We've had faster, more explosive teams in the past and Cal still managed to slow it down. Heck, he slowed down the Memphis game when he had Derrick freaking Rose as his point guard.
Not sure how you can tell Cal had anything to do with it when we’ve had so many guard injuries. And 9 points is just three possessions. Defensive weaknesses are why you lose games under those circumstances. If you are up 10 with 2 minutes and you get beat, your defense sucks. Got zero to do with pace of play. Again, if you study that tournament and late comebacks, it’s the team that plays D that gets the job done. No game is easy. Any lead under 10 points or 3 pts per minute is not enough to relax Ever. I don’t care who you are.
Curious: Do you have the stats that show how many games we ended up winning (like the 2012 title game) where we slowed the game to limit possessions? The Vandy 2012 game was referenced as a loss, ok cool. But how many games did we win because of the same strategy? No strategy is going to win you every game. If you're winning, the more possessions you give your opponent, the more opportunities they have to cut into your lead.
Villanova titles - limited possessions, won games.
If you have opportunities to get quick easy buckets, you get them. And I think Cal tells his guys the same thing
And I can almost guarantee that if Cal had lost games because he pushed the pace instead of limiting possessions, you'd have a thread bashing Cal for not slowing the game down
Actually, yes I've posted those stats in the past. Two threads, in fact. I would have been happy to provide them for you but since you're coming out shooting from the hip and assuming in your last paragraph that I would have had the same thesis even if Cal sped up the pace, I don't care to engage with you in a serious discussion until you change your presumptuous tone.
How's that sound?
Not enough space to list all of his faults, but remember he told you from day one that this was a "players First" program. (Translated- I am going to make a few player rich and to hell with BBN and championships). He had certainly lived up to his word, made himself insanely rich and destroyed the basketball program in the process.
Lol, here's the message board tough guy. Good for you, we all have soooo much respect for you
Agree with a bunch of points but one stands out that I disagree with. Cal is not a motivator. Period. Hell most of our guys play with one eye on the bench fearing making a mistake. In no way would I ever consider him a motivator.
