State of 2024 Recruiting
- Thread starter Rembrandt90
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Robinson and one of the twins will play the same position. I suspect Robinson is good enough to play wherever he goes regardless of competition.
Supposedly UM had another commit at Miami this weekend and was on flip watch. If they lose 3 guys I am sure they will try. Robinson is better then any other guy UK is recruiting. He will play either Jack or DE. Jacob will prob play Jack and Jarod most likely DE.
Last yr we signed 2 4 star recruits who projected to the same D position in Keaton Wade & Fearbry
What a good problem, lots of great players competing for snaps
What a good problem, lots of great players competing for snaps
I didn't get at all what you wee talking about earlier. You were referring to Rembrant saying your boy Matt flings mud on the wall hoping something sticks.
Because they don't want him?
Offers can be a suspicious thing at times. Some kids get offers early and they are merely "you are young and talented, we don't want you to blow up without an offer, so here, tell people you were offered, even though you can't accept it yet because we are unsure of you."
At the end of the day, you can only trust your staff. You can field competitive teams without landing all highly regarded kids, but your roster can't be 80% diamonds in the rough.
Good points. In fact, I believe today (Aug 1) is the day that commitable, written binding offers go out. This is how you who is really recruiting which players.
Get an NFL mindset folks about this decision. Running backs are a dime a dozen, not worth the worry of losing one, lots more fruit on the trees out there.
LOL! Recruiting "experts" falling over one another to get a "first" prediction of a recruit to a school, Patterson to UK in this case....only to get it wrong. These leeches care more about being first than being right.
... but losing one you wanted to Cincy stings a little. Here are 3 observations.
1. NIL is a major issue for some (many hs recruits). It appears Stoops is holding on to $ for RETAINING players and transfers. In other words, I don't think UK is in the game of guaranteeing much $ before playing time.
- Side note, it is not fair to say Cincy offered $ for coming. They may have beat us head to head, but some schools (Aub, Tn, and I'm sure many others) are offering $ to players for stepping on campus.
2. UK's recruiting is not great right now. Let's call it what it is. We can talk summer, early in the process, and previous commits that we'd never heard of before fall, etc ... The fact is, those statements are true for every single team in the SEC. We're simply not the only team to pick up good players later in the process, etc... So, if we're being objective, we have to look at where we are (and where others are) TODAY.
3. Stoops and Company have repeatedly proven they can bring in good recruiting classes, excellent transfer players, and develop good teams. I'm guessing our recruiting class will be in the 20-30 range and we'll bring in some excellent transfers to meet immediate needs.
#2 & #3 can both be true.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but IMHO you are missing the most important points.
Recruiting classes should not be judged for several years after the players actually sign. They should not be judged by online class rankings. They certainly should not be judged by class rankings in July and August, months before the class is complete. Class rankings don't put any points on the board. Class rankings don't block or tackle. Class rankings don't protect players from injury or academic shortcomings. Class rankings don't tell us who will decommit, flip, or transfer. To use your words, these statements are true for every single SEC team.
In fact, some positions are notorious for performance being related to years of development, not so much to an online hs player ranking. OL, interior DL, and S, especially. Up the middle, where games are won.
Some of the best examples of rankings failing to match performance I have ever seen were UK players, so it beats the hell out of me why some of our fans have such a hard time getting this. Just to name a few again, Josh Allen, Bunchy Stallings, Kenneth Horsey, Luke Fortner, Benny Snell, CRod, Carrington Valentine, D'Eryk Jackson. How did highly rated Kiyauna Goodwin and Michael Drennen impress you? These aren't the first, and won't be the last. There are more examples. But the online class rankings are powerful eye candy for fans, especially during the offseason when boredom prevails. I know an AL fan who refers to recruiting as the "second season". His fanaticism with class rankings springs from his zeal for AL's class ranking to be higher than Auburn's. Similarly, I have seen some UK fans obsess with us outranking UL's class. IDK why. But here is the truth. It doesn't matter. What matters is the scoreboard. And sometimes the scoreboard really makes me wonder why anyone pays attention to class rankings. But there are fans who actually believe having a higher online class ranking gives them bragging rights or some other kind of vindication. But that is accomplished on the scoreboard.
As for the idea that "UK's recruiting is not great right now", how do you know that? This sounds like another simple interpretation of the current online class ranking. But how do we know who Coach Marrow and his colleagues are recruiting? We know some of the names, and they are pretty impressive on the whole. Marrow is good at his job. I trust our coaches. But if you don't, that is your right. Everything will boil down to final scores on game days.
Stoops plays the transfer portal as well if not better than most, we’re not going to sign the blue choppers so just sign the kids that you think have be developed and use the portal to plug the holes. Seems to have worked out so far.
Some recruiting thoughts for the day.
Maybe time will tell how Jason Paterson ended up committing to UC yesterday. Maybe Patterson will actually sign with UC in December. Or maybe not. I can think of a couple of possible explanations for his late move away from UK. Although top athletes are generally not scared of competition, these are business decisions. Maybe Patterson was concerned about Tovani Mizell, Jamarion Wilcox, and Demie Sumo-Karngbaye impacting his playing time. That would not be irrational. Or maybe Stoops and Marrow are getting squeezed because there aren't many scholarships left in our class. If they believe they can actually sign the Smith twins, maybe they are having to make some tough choices. Maybe Patterson saw UC playing on TV in the 2021 Cotton Bowl against AL and developed a liking. Or maybe Patterson was blown away by something connected to his dialog with Coach Satterfield's staff. That happens. Everyone is different. Not every young player can be stereotyped. There won't be very many instances of talented football players from the south choosing UC over UK, but anything can happen in recruiting.
Where does this leave us? For one thing, the gurus are saying UK is about to receive a commitment from Steven Soles. Soles, from Powell, TN, reportedly holds at least five SEC offers. Although he has been an edge defender in hs, he has the body type of an interior LB in Coach White's 3-3-5. He does not have the length of a Jack LB. We will soon see what Soles decides, but I can see some evidence that Coach Stoops is currently focused primarily on defensive recruiting for 2024. If that is true, it is a phase. Earlier in the 2024 cycle, we started off primarily with offensive commits.
I have heard no credible followup news on the Smith twins following their most recent trip to Lexington. One could imagine that the two brothers might not be in complete agreement with one another about their decision, but I am mostly just spitballing. Meanwhile, Brian Robinson, Hardley Gilmore, Devin Smith, Kamron Mikell, Amontrae Bradford, Lorenzo Cowan, and Casey Etienne are still out there. Gilmore has an announcement scheduled later this month.
Maybe time will tell how Jason Paterson ended up committing to UC yesterday. Maybe Patterson will actually sign with UC in December. Or maybe not. I can think of a couple of possible explanations for his late move away from UK. Although top athletes are generally not scared of competition, these are business decisions. Maybe Patterson was concerned about Tovani Mizell, Jamarion Wilcox, and Demie Sumo-Karngbaye impacting his playing time. That would not be irrational. Or maybe Stoops and Marrow are getting squeezed because there aren't many scholarships left in our class. If they believe they can actually sign the Smith twins, maybe they are having to make some tough choices. Maybe Patterson saw UC playing on TV in the 2021 Cotton Bowl against AL and developed a liking. Or maybe Patterson was blown away by something connected to his dialog with Coach Satterfield's staff. That happens. Everyone is different. Not every young player can be stereotyped. There won't be very many instances of talented football players from the south choosing UC over UK, but anything can happen in recruiting.
Where does this leave us? For one thing, the gurus are saying UK is about to receive a commitment from Steven Soles. Soles, from Powell, TN, reportedly holds at least five SEC offers. Although he has been an edge defender in hs, he has the body type of an interior LB in Coach White's 3-3-5. He does not have the length of a Jack LB. We will soon see what Soles decides, but I can see some evidence that Coach Stoops is currently focused primarily on defensive recruiting for 2024. If that is true, it is a phase. Earlier in the 2024 cycle, we started off primarily with offensive commits.
I have heard no credible followup news on the Smith twins following their most recent trip to Lexington. One could imagine that the two brothers might not be in complete agreement with one another about their decision, but I am mostly just spitballing. Meanwhile, Brian Robinson, Hardley Gilmore, Devin Smith, Kamron Mikell, Amontrae Bradford, Lorenzo Cowan, and Casey Etienne are still out there. Gilmore has an announcement scheduled later this month.
True. But Stoops has said they prefer to sign and develop, rather than take transfers. As you point out, the transfers are for plugging roster voids. There are some positions, especially the lines, where it is much better to have players in camp for 4-5 years and manage their nutrition and conditioning over a long timeframe. At the end of the day, I agree Stoops will continue to follow a hybrid approach to player acquisition, and he is good at it.
I agree 110% that individual rankings do not equate to individual performance. (You give many good examples!)
However, there is a statistical correlation between Team recruiting rankings and Team performance. There’s a reason teams that stack the best recruiting classes have the best teams. There will always be statistical outliers. (A&M is first team to come to mind.)
The only thing to measure in recruiting is where we are Today, and Today we are behind almost every SEC school. Some people say, “Don’t evaluate class until signing day.” Others say, “Don’t evaluate class until year 2.” I will not argue or disagree with how or when people evaluate classes because it’s subjective.
We both agree that ultimately it’s about W’s & L’s. I think we agree that Stoops is probably top echelon of SEC coaches for developing players, identifying transfer players that can improve the program and fill immediate needs.
But, as you state, Stoops’ preference is to recruit and develop. We are behind most (almost all) SEC schools in recruiting as of today.
Ky football is in better shape than it’s been in my entire life and I’m getting long in the tooth. However, for Ky to break through to the next level (I think UK and Stoops can take it to another level) it will require better recruiting. My guess is that we’ll have higher ranked classes in August if that happens.
This season could be special! I do think a special QB with the right coordinator can surpass individual recruiting rankings. White will have a solid defense. Let’s see if the Coen/Leary magic happens.
Go Cats!
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Ya I couldn’t believe that commit they got yesterday. 5* out of state edge rusher. Beamer’s corniness is selling I guess.
Every school can point to a 4 or 5 star player who doesn't meet expectations. But, they are outliers.
Several 4 and 5 star players in one class usually leads to a good team.
Several classes of 4 and 5 star players usually leads to a Very good team. Programs that stack these types of classes together usually have consistently good teams.
Sure, that is the marketing premise for online player rankings. The websites want us to believe a 5 star has a more productive football future than a 4 star, a 4 star has a more productive future than a 3 star, and so forth. If a player is a 4 or 5 star but doesn't pan out, he must be an outlier because, otherwise, the only other possible conclusion is that online player ratings aren't based on a valid analytical concept.
People believe what they want to believe. Galileo Galilei was jailed because he insisted that the earth is a round (not flat) planet orbiting the sun. In Salem, scores of people were executed as witches. China Joe Biden was elected as a moderate. All of those events were infinitely more important than internet class rankings, but they illustrate that all kinds of people believe what they prefer to believe. Whenever a 4 or 5 star player becomes a college star, that proves the validity of star ratings. But whenever a 4 or 5 star player doesn't pan out, they are an outlier. I still don't see why it is so difficult to understand significance of the many examples of 3 star players outperforming 4 and 5 star players. Benny Snell, CRod, Bunchy, Fortner, and so forth. Josh Allen was a 2 star. There are so many of them in college football. Are they all outliers? LOL. Any contention that there is scientific proof supporting the star rating system comes from people who don't understand what is actually necessary to establish valid scientific proof. Star ratings are a largely successful online marketing product, because people want to believe in them, especially during the offseason when they have nothing else to read about.
The best coaching staffs do their own evaluations and know how to sell their programs to the players they want. They develop players well, they supplement through the portal, and they play the game to win. What made Josh Allen a better football player than any other defensive player in the country? Was he an "outlier", or was he an underscouted athlete who worked his butt off? He was the latter. Now he is an NFL starter.
Fortunately, there is a rational, fact-based perspective for trusting our coaches.
Beamer is a big name in the DC area, Just isn't Shane. But all thing aren't equal here, the 23 guy followed his girlfriend there. Not the first to do that and won't be the last. The one yesterday has been a Carolina lean the entire cycle. I guess they sold him on being the next Clowney
LB Steven Soles has now committed. He reportedly holds at least five SEC offers.
UK's current 2024 recruiting class-
Cutter Boley, QB, Lexington, KY
Elijah Groves, LB, Cross Plains, TN
Hayes Johnson, OL, Campbellsville, KY
Jason Kauwe, P/K, Billings, MT
Jadon Lafontant, OL, Greenwich, CT
Jiquavious Marshall, DB, Macon, GA
Tovani Mizell, RB, Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Terhyon Nichols, DB, Cincinnati, OH
Caleb Redd, LB, St. Louis, MO
Willie Rodriguez, TE, Alexandria, KY
Aba Selm, OL, Independence, KY
Shaysheed Scott, DB, Marion, SC
Antwan Smith, LB, Atlanta, GA
Steven Soles, LB, Powell, TN
David Washington, WR, Philadelphia, PA
UK's current 2024 recruiting class-
Cutter Boley, QB, Lexington, KY
Elijah Groves, LB, Cross Plains, TN
Hayes Johnson, OL, Campbellsville, KY
Jason Kauwe, P/K, Billings, MT
Jadon Lafontant, OL, Greenwich, CT
Jiquavious Marshall, DB, Macon, GA
Tovani Mizell, RB, Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Terhyon Nichols, DB, Cincinnati, OH
Caleb Redd, LB, St. Louis, MO
Willie Rodriguez, TE, Alexandria, KY
Aba Selm, OL, Independence, KY
Shaysheed Scott, DB, Marion, SC
Antwan Smith, LB, Atlanta, GA
Steven Soles, LB, Powell, TN
David Washington, WR, Philadelphia, PA
A month ago Wiltfong and others said he was OSU bound
Sure. They have great coaching staffs, big recruiting budgets, and exist in football-oriented states like FL, GA, AL, TX, and OH that have large numbers of Power 5 football athletes in their hs education systems.
It's ONLY about Ws and Ls. As long as we are compliant with the rules, and as long as our players benefit from having been at UK, the W is all that matters. And when one considers Mark Stoops is based in a small state in the northern part of the conference and has fought through the limitations of the basketball culture and all the other problems that needed fixing, the job he has done is totally remarkable. Stoops and Marrow preside over the talent evaluation. They talk to players and their hs coaches, get to know the families, and break down film. Stoops has said a number of times that his staff's evaluation of players is way more important than other people's evaluations. If he didn't feel that way, Josh Allen, Quinton Bohanna, Luke Fortner, Benny Snell, and CRod would never even have been at UK. All of them had very modest player ratings and were lightly recruited. There are more examples. Our coaching staff knows what they are doing, and I have learned to trust them. I don't worry about class rankings and, BTW, I also try to study film on our recruiting targets when I can get access to it. That's one way that I learn.
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Of 133 D1 programs, 65 power 5 (i think?), how many can sign "Several 4 and 5 star players in one class", many classes in a row?
15? 10?
UK ain't one, and never will be, poor history, insufficient fan financial support, poor local talent base.
Reality is UK needs to aquire talent & develop it as good or better than the rest of the CFB schools who aren't top 15 recruiters annually. Results since 2015 make me very optimistic.
15? 10?
UK ain't one, and never will be, poor history, insufficient fan financial support, poor local talent base.
Reality is UK needs to aquire talent & develop it as good or better than the rest of the CFB schools who aren't top 15 recruiters annually. Results since 2015 make me very optimistic.
Actually, though, here are the numbers of "4 stars" (or higher) in Stoops' classes-
2013- Three 4-stars
2014- Six 4-stars, although Elam was judged a 5-star on some sites (Low 3-star Bunchy Stallings' class)
2015- Three 4-stars (2-star Josh Allen's class)
2016- Three 4-stars, although L. Young was judged a 5-star on some sites (Low 3-star Benny Snell's and Luke Fortner's class)
2017- Four 4-stars (Low 3-star Quinton Bohanna's class)
2018- Three 4-stars (Low 3-star CRod's class)
2019- Three 4-stars
2020- Five 4-stars (Low 3-star Carrington Valentine's class)
2021- Four 4-stars
2022- Eight 4-stars although Goodwin was judged a 5-star on most sites
2023- At least three 4-stars although Avery Stuart and Kendrick Gilbert were also judged 4-stars on some sites
Looking back on these classes, the first thing that jumps out at you is how many of Stoops' all-SEC, All American, and future NFL players have been 2-stars and low 3-stars, which features how well Stoops' staff actually "acquires and develops talent".
Stoops' classes always include at least 3-4 so-called "4-stars", evidently making UK one of those "10-15 programs" (quoting your estimate) that attract that many 4-stars in every class. So the suggestion that UK will never be one of those schools is explicitly not right. Many of these highly ranked players have become stars at UK although Elam, Drennen, and Goodwin bombed. But a significant number of 4-stars bomb across the country every year, and many of those now occupy the transfer portal.
At the end of the day, Stoops' staff evaluates, recruits, and develops talent better than any previous UK staff, and well enough to have put more UK players into the NFL draft than any other UK coach at least since Bear Bryant if not longer. For a number of years now, Stoops has been signing players with other offers from GA, FL, and TN. Prior to Stoops, UK coaches seldom if ever did that. Stoops' teams are very competitive in the nation's best college football conference. Stoops broke the losing streak to FL and is now starting to control that series. He has turned our series with SCar and MO around, and UK gave GA their toughest game last year by far. All without cheating. So that is the reality, and I share your optimism.
I agree with this 110%. I was supporting Stoops after the Southern Miss loss and there weren’t many supporters following that game ;- ) He has exceeded my expectations and caused me to see more potential in UK football because of his recruiting and development skills.
Regarding recruiting, here’s how I see it. What would the class look like if Stoops, Marrow and Co got to handpick 20 recruits knowing every recruit said “yes?” I’m guessing the class would be: 7-8 (5*), 10-12 (4*), and maybe 1-2 (3*). He would not pick players just because someone gave them a rating, but because he and his evaluators recruited them, watched their film, watched camp sessions, etc …. If this is the case, then recruiting rankings matter. We all know from the above class there would be some underachievers and overachievers. There would be some overachievers he passed on. Point being, recruiting rankings matter but they are certainly not the only metric. Online rating systems are NOT higher factors than coach evaluations! But, many players that ALL coaches want ARE highly rated.
Reality of our current recruiting is that we need to do better. I guarantee you Stoops is preaching this behind closed doors to his staff. We should not say “it’s early, etc …” as if our current situation is not part of the equation of how the class will end.
People should trust Stoops and his coaches. I don’t think this statement contradicts the above paragraph. The bottom line is that Stoops would be the first to say “recruiting has to get better for our team to get better.”
Bottom line, you attribute more validity to online class rankings and player ratings than I do. There are not JUST SOME underachievers and overachievers. There are many. Stoops' ability to sniff them out is impressive. He took over a 2-9 team with dated facilities and has created a winning culture in the nation's toughest college football conference. If online class rankings were valid, our football program would not be where it is now. Just consider the roles Josh Allen, Quinton Bohanna, Benny Snell, and CRod played. Nobody else in Power 5 wanted them.
Aside from that, I think you and I have more or less been saying about the same thing.
KSR headline on Roush article:
Steven Soles, 3-Star Tennessee EDGE, Commits to Kentucky
With Adam Luckett quote”Undersized EDGE out of East Tennessee with a clear comp to a former Wildcat. More to come.”Roush is a clueless plagiarist. Worst journalist in the UK sports media.
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I have only one source for this, so I cannot totally vouch for its accuracy. I had dinner at Cattlemans Roadhouse with a friend who attended UK and has season tickets. He owns a successful business and gives a lot of money to 15. FWIW, I trust him, and he is not a big talker. He believes Harbaugh pulled the Smith twins' scholarship offers. I asked him whether Harbaugh did this because the Smiths are moving back to KY, or (conversely) whether the Smiths are moving back to KY because Harbaugh pulled their scholarships. He didn't know, although the latter explanation seems more believable. He claims Jacob was never sold on MI even though Jerod was. But he says MI is no longer an option for them unless Harbaugh changes his mind. He says Harbaugh's 2024 class is full now.
If this narrative is true, it seems to explain a lot.
If this narrative is true, it seems to explain a lot.
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Well the recruit himself said they compared him to Boogie Watson.
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