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Scottie on Michael

This has to be sour grapes coming from Pippen and personal in nature only.

Jordan in 182 games before Pippen at ages, 21-23:

33ppg, 50%fg, 6rb, 5ast, 2.5stl, 1blk

In 10 playoff games during same period his stats were slightly elevated with a dip only in FG% by 3-4 pts.
 
Another noteworthy thing to keep in mind. Michael Jordan was Eliminated 6 consecutive times from the NBA playoffs, including 3 consecutive times in the first round. Lebron has never lost in the first round and he’s been to the playoffs more years than Jordan played.
Also way more teams make the playoffs now, take this year the Lakers would have been out without the ridiculous playoffs.
 
Also way more teams make the playoffs now, take this year the Lakers would have been out without the ridiculous playoffs.

It went from 12 to 16 teams very early on in MJ’s career if I’m remembering correctly. Like within the first year or 2 he was in the league. Am I remembering wrong??
 
Better scorer is all. The rest LBJ is better and it’s not close. And that LBJ feller isn’t too bad at scoring if ya haven’t saw the all time records lately.
You lose all credibility as a poster, unfortunately, when you make a claim that LBJ is better at everything else other than scoring...

Why do LBJ fans always forget about the defensive side of the ball? You know, where half the game is played? How many defensive players of the year did LBJ win? How many times was he on the all defensive team?

Now compare that to Jordan...and in your words, let me know "how close" it really is.
 
You lose all credibility as a poster, unfortunately, when you make a claim that LBJ is better at everything else other than scoring...

Why do LBJ fans always forget about the defensive side of the ball? You know, where half the game is played? How many defensive players of the year did LBJ win? How many times was he on the all defensive team?

Now compare that to Jordan...and in your words, let me know "how close" it really is.

MJ never had to guard Magic or Bird, that’s the ONLY reason. His guy Pippen took that load.

Lebron can guard 1-5 effectively, a way better facilitator, better rebounder. And like I said, he’s not too shabby at scoring the ball either.. lol

Those awards you’re talking about are a popularity contest, FWIW. Also lots of politics involved. See this years MVP race for reference.
 
You lose all credibility as a poster, unfortunately, when you make a claim that LBJ is better at everything else other than scoring...

Why do LBJ fans always forget about the defensive side of the ball? You know, where half the game is played? How many defensive players of the year did LBJ win? How many times was he on the all defensive team?

Now compare that to Jordan...and in your words, let me know "how close" it really is.
Yes, MJ is a much better defensive player, better in the clutch, better leader, better winner. LBJ is a better rebounder going by numbers, but, he’s 3 inches taller than MJ was & MJ also played in the era of the big man. MJ averaged 6.2 rebounds per game as a SG, while LBJ, at 6-9, has averaged 7.5 over his career, so far. An argument can be made that MJ is actually the better rebounder, factoring in size & the positions each guy played.

LBJ is a better passer, averaging 7.3 assists for his career, but, he handles the ball more than MJ ever did. MJ could pass too & averaged 5.3 as the undisputed best scorer in the league. I don’t think the gap is huge there, either, all things considered but I’d still give LBJ the edge.

But, what really separates them is winning, whether LBJ fans accept it or not. That’s really all that matters in the end & one guy OWNED the postseason while the other has had enormous struggles. Postseason success between the 2 isn’t even close. I know who I want taking that last shot & don’t even need a nanosecond to decide. Like I said before, LBJ is an all-time top 5-10 player & it’s impossible to deny that, IMO. But, TBH, I can’t stand either guy so it’s kinda sickening for me to heap praise on either. But, I think MJ is CLEARLY better & it’s not really very close.
 
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Scottie sure tore it up in Houston and Portland… also refused to play for the Bulls because he didn’t get the last shot. He was very talented, but a delusional, mental loser.
Scottie Pippen had way more playoff success without Jordan than Jordan did without Pippen. In 5 seasons without Pippen, Jordan just had 1 playoff win. Pippen had 20 playoff wins without Jordan. I’m not saying that Pippen is better than Jordan but to act like Pippen was trash without Jordan is comical. I think Jordan is definitely one of the greatest to ever play but I think it’s debatable on who the G.O.A.T is.
 
Yeah, that had nothing to do with the fact that Chicago was AWFUL when MJ was drafted & that the East was still loaded from 84-87 with all-time great Celtics teams & the Pistons, among others. Plus, MJ had only played 3 full seasons before Pippen was drafted. How many players do you see, basically, single handedly leading teams to NBA championships within their first 3-4 years? Especially in that era. That’s just a ridiculous reach to try to use that against MJ.
Bird and Magic both did
 
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Bird and Magic both did
Single handedly? Those Lakers & Celtics teams had a lot more around Magic & Bird than the Bulls had around MJ. Especially, the Lakers. Kareem was the best player on that 80 team & possibly the best player in the NBA at the time. The Bulls had been terrible for a while when they drafted MJ & he didn’t get much help at all in his first 3 seasons. Nothing that would compare to Kareem, Norm Nixon, Jamaal Wilkes, Spencer Haywood, Tiny Archibald, Robert Parish, Kevin McHale, Cornbread Maxwell. Take a look at those Bulls’ rosters from 85-87. They were dreadful. But, this is the closest I’ll ever come to saying anything negative about Bird or Magic. They would both be in my all-time starting 5.
 
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MJ never had to guard Magic or Bird, that’s the ONLY reason. His guy Pippen took that load.

Lebron can guard 1-5 effectively, a way better facilitator, better rebounder. And like I said, he’s not too shabby at scoring the ball either.. lol

Those awards you’re talking about are a popularity contest, FWIW. Also lots of politics involved. See this years MVP race for reference.
Wait a second...so you are telling me that LBJ, the face of the NBA for 15 years, the golden calf of the NBA, the most marketed NBA player in the world for the past 15 years, could never win defensive player of the year because he wasn't popular enough? That's the logic you are going with?

Jordan is the superior defender, and the superior all around player. More championships, more MVPs, more finals MVPs (why doesn't Scottie have any?), defensive player of the year (BTW, the yr Jordan won this award, he also averaged 35/6/6).
 
Wait a second...so you are telling me that LBJ, the face of the NBA for 15 years, the golden calf of the NBA, the most marketed NBA player in the world for the past 15 years, could never win defensive player of the year because he wasn't popular enough? That's the logic you are going with?

Jordan is the superior defender, and the superior all around player. More championships, more MVPs, more finals MVPs (why doesn't Scottie have any?), defensive player of the year (BTW, the yr Jordan won this award, he also averaged 35/6/6).

When you say Jordan is the better all around player, that ends the convo. That’s ignorance in its purest form and that statement is void of any intellect.

Jordan had opportunities to win without Pippen and failed miserably.

Jordan said it best. 😁

"There is no Michael Jordan without Scottie Pippen” -Michael Jordan
 
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When you say Jordan is the better all around player, that ends the convo. That’s ignorance in its purest form and that statement is void of any intellect.

Jordan had opportunities to win without Pippen and failed miserably.

Jordan said it best. 😁

"There is no Michael Jordan without Scottie Pippen” -Michael Jordan
You addressed nothing from my previous post. Absolutely nothing. Jordan has the stats and accolades in his favor, not LBJ. I am using a legitimate statistical analysis. Jordan is statistically the better scorer and defender. LBJ is statistically better at distributing and rebounding.

I will take the better scorer and defender any flippin day of the week, as would anybody that knows basketball.

Not to mention, Jordan has more MVPs and finals MVPs. Again, why doesn't Scottie have any? Way to completely sidestep that. Also, LBJ shoots 73% from foul line. Jordan 83%. Oh, and LBJ turns it over more a game than Jordan does. Oh, and Jordan has one defensive player of the year and has many more all defensive team honors.

But you keep holding on to that extra rebound and assist a game.
 
You addressed nothing from my previous post. Absolutely nothing. Jordan has the stats and accolades in his favor, not LBJ. I am using a legitimate statistical analysis. Jordan is statistically the better scorer and defender. LBJ is statistically better at distributing and rebounding.

I will take the better scorer and defender any flippin day of the week, as would anybody that knows basketball.

Not to mention, Jordan has more MVPs and finals MVPs. Again, why doesn't Scottie have any? Way to completely sidestep that. Also, LBJ shoots 73% from foul line. Jordan 83%. Oh, and LBJ turns it over more a game than Jordan does. Oh, and Jordan has one defensive player of the year and has many more all defensive team honors.

But you keep holding on to that extra rebound and assist a game.

“Michael Jordan doesn’t exist without Scottie Pippen.” Michael Jordan

^^^ Go argue with the guy that was there when it happened.

MJ is NOT a better defender. He can win whatever award there is, I’ve watched both and it’s not close. Lebron has more turnovers because he runs point most of the time. You must not watch the games because that’s pretty obvious and you somehow missed it. Lebron is guarding 1-5 and the other teams best player, MJ had the luxury of Pippen guarding the other teams best player. Again, you must not have watched because that’s obvious and you somehow missed it.
 
“Michael Jordan doesn’t exist without Scottie Pippen.” Michael Jordan

^^^ Go argue with the guy that was there when it happened.

MJ is NOT a better defender. He can win whatever award there is, I’ve watched both and it’s not close. Lebron has more turnovers because he runs point most of the time. You must not watch the games because that’s pretty obvious and you somehow missed it. Lebron is guarding 1-5 and the other teams best player, MJ had the luxury of Pippen guarding the other teams best player. Again, you must not have watched because that’s obvious and you somehow missed it.
Your argument makes no sense. Of course Jordan needed another high caliber player to win titles. Just like LBJ needed Wade, Bosh, Irving, Love, and AD. Just like basically every other superstar in NBA history. That does nothing to distinguish who is the better overall player between Jordan and LBJ. I don't even know what you are arguing anymore lol.

Your obsession with Pippen is strange, to say the least.
 
They made it to the conference championship the next year after Jordan retired the first time in 93-94. They were 55-27.
Bulls lost in the Conference Semifinals to the Knicks that year. The Eastern Conference was really watered down that year as only four players from the east made the All-NBA team compared to nine players the previous year.
 
Only 1 player has ever won defensive player of the year and the scoring title in the same year, Michael Jordan. Lebron may make more splash defensive plays because of his athletic ability but Jordan was a better defender.
 
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Did anybody actually listen to what Pippen said??? Agree or disagree with what he said, his words are clearly being taken out of context by Greenburg. He called Jordan "horrible" because he did very little as a one on one, selfish player. He starred when he was surrounded by a powerhouse group of players.
"Powerhouse GROUP of players"?

Group?

In a center dominated era---Jordan had Luc Longley, Bill Cartwright, Will Perdue..

Off guards were John Paxson, Steve Kerr, BJ Armstrong...And Harper.

Yeah there was Pip and Rodman. I guess you can throw in Grant.

But really asides from Pip/Rodman, who are these "GROUP" of powerhouse players?

LBJ played with Chris Bosh, Wade, Kyrie, Love, AD, Westbrook, etc....

Jordan with an AD on his team? Yikes.
 
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I mean, MJ was getting swept in the first round of the playoffs until Scottie came along. If Scottie didn’t come along, MJ would be ringless right now. There’s no way to dispute that. Scottie has a right to be upset that Jordan gets all the clout when Jordan wouldn’t be who he is without him. Fact!
The Bulls lost to the Celtics, who were in the midst of their dominance....I mean he lost to Bird, McHale, etc....That Celtics team was 67-15. Starting 5 for that series?

PG Kyle Macy
SG---GOAT
SF-Woolridge
PF-Oakley
C- Dave fukin Corzine, baby...

Celtics?

Bird
McHale
Parrish
Johnson
Ainge

Bro, c'mon now...

Following year---Celtics were 59-23---Lost in the Finals to the Lakers.

And look, every NBA great had good to great supporting cast...

Magic had Worthy, some dude named Kareem..

Bird had McHale...Parrish...

Hakeem had Drexler, Horry,

Isiah had Rodman, Johnson, Lambier, Dumars,

Could I argue Magic isn't who he was w/o James Worthy, Kareem?

That Bird isn't who he is w/o McHale and Parish?

Why is Jordan "axed" for playing with Pippen, yet those above mentioned get a "pass"?
 
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This is a topic like politics, you aren't changing anyone's mind lol. I love Jordan but that was a different time in the game and it's pointless to speculate who would have done what..
Strictly basketball speaking, and leaving will out, I'm not sure there's anything Jordan could do that Lebron couldn't. However I do believe Lebron could do some things Jordan couldn't. Jordans intangibles is what puts him at the top
Like??????
 
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Jordan made all those guys better. Kerr was suddenly getting wide open looks because Jordan was being double teamed. He also had a killer instinct I haven't seen anyone but Bird have, at least since I've been watching since the 80's. Maybe Kobe or Magic. I do think James is the best player since Jordan.
 
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Wow, had no idea that Pippin not q Jordan fan. Gir me its MJ but he was part of my childhood so tgat probably makes a difference
 
Kinda out of context a bit but he’s still so jealous that MJ was the best player then and forever. LeBron is a top 5 player ever no doubt. Stats aren’t everything though. If Bird would have played 20 seasons he would have had monster numbers too. MJ’s has the scoring average that nobody has approached for a career.
Wilt and Michael average the same (30.1) points per game for their careers.
 
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Wilt and Michael average the same (30.1) points per game for their careers.
I've always wondered if MJ regrets coming outta retirement the second time to play a couple years with the Wizards...he would have had the highest scoring avg all to himself if he hadn't come out of retirement.
 
That tv interview with Jordan and Pippen is interesting.It took place after Jordan came back from his hiatus. Their body language is telling. It is clear they don't like each other.
 
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