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Sam Vecenie: “Oscar/UK need to part ways” if championship is the goal

JST390-2

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Nov 1, 2015
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Scroll to the 3 minute mark …I have a lot of respect for this guys opinion …says he understands why UK fans are pissed lol …the last couple minutes gives suggestions on what Cal should do with the roster moving forward …said we will never win a championship with Oscar …he’s not bashing, just telling it like it is 🤷‍♂️
 
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Interesting take. I agree that Sam is very insightful and knows a lot about the game. What bothers me is that folks are picking Oscar apart for something that’s been an achilles heel for Cal teams for many years even with more versatile big men. The P&R/ball screen teams have always killed us and we never seem to learn from it. We always play into their hand and let them do what they want to do.
 
Interesting take. I agree that Sam is very insightful and knows a lot about the game. What bothers me is that folks are picking Oscar apart for something that’s been an achilles heel for Cal teams for many years even with more versatile big men. The P&R/ball screen teams have always killed us and we never seem to learn from it. We always play into their hand and let them do what they want to do.
We are not alone. Michigan State got killed by pick and roll.
 
Interesting take. I agree that Sam is very insightful and knows a lot about the game. What bothers me is that folks are picking Oscar apart for something that’s been an achilles heel for Cal teams for many years even with more versatile big men. The P&R/ball screen teams have always killed us and we never seem to learn from it. We always play into their hand and let them do what they want to do.
I mean there's a reason that every NBA team runs pick and roll as their #1 offensive set, it is hard to defend. Nothing is insightful about saying teams struggle to defend it. What Vecenie said that made 100% sense is you need roster versatility and that means capable players who can run guys off the 3pt line into the paint where there's rim protection. My biggest complaint with Cal and recent Kentucky teams is their time/score defense. Late in a game, you have to protect against the 3pt shot until the last possession of a 1 or 2 pt game. If you are up 4--"hug" or get up on the guards and force 2 pt shots. That is #1 objective. Can't speak to how many times they let an opponent take a 3pt shot and been burned.

The odd forced subbing that Vecenie didn't discuss also has killed Kentucky. There was no reason to sub in Lance Ware at end of the 1st Half. None. Cost UK 4 pts and while everyone says "You got up in 2nd Half-that doesn't matter"-it does. When you were up 8/9-that becomes 12-13 and mentally effects each team differently. Start stretching postseason games to 4 possession leads and never know how a team will respond, but a lot of elbows get tight and shot selection gets heroic instead of breaking you down. Your best players need to play in Postseason period. It's not time to make everyone participate. Oscar had 1 foul and if he gets 2, so be it, but those points gifted away haunt you in the end.

Think the best Oscar critique he offered up was the rebounding stats coming off a lot of blown shots close to rim for Oscar. For every game where he was all over the glass like Providence, there are Oscar moments where it's 3/4 rebs in one possession when a shot should've been put down in the 1st attempt. Hard worker? Absolutely. Crude offensive player? That's true too.
 
I just can't get on board with the Oscar and Kentucky need to part ways mentality....sorry. Oscar is one of the hardest workers I've seen in quite a while and without him, these past 2 miserable years of UK basketball would have been even worse. If he wants to come back for a third year, then I feel like he should be welcomed back; I just don't see running him off...it makes no sense to me. Kentucky's biggest problem is their inept coach. Until Cal is gone, I don't think the roster really matters; the team will not be great.
 
I just can't get on board with the Oscar and Kentucky need to part ways mentality....sorry. Oscar is one of the hardest workers I've seen in quite a while and without him, these past 2 miserable years of UK basketball would have been even worse. If he wants to come back for a third year, then I feel like he should be welcomed back; I just don't see running him off...it makes no sense to me. Kentucky's biggest problem is their inept coach. Until Cal is gone, I don't think the roster really matters; the team will not be great.

Respect your opinion. I do. I just disagree. What we have done the last two seasons hasn’t worked at all. Oscar back will mean either doing it again, or Oscar not playing significant minutes. Or we lose again. This is just the way I see it.
 
I mean there's a reason that every NBA team runs pick and roll as their #1 offensive set, it is hard to defend. Nothing is insightful about saying teams struggle to defend it. What Vecenie said that made 100% sense is you need roster versatility and that means capable players who can run guys off the 3pt line into the paint where there's rim protection. My biggest complaint with Cal and recent Kentucky teams is their time/score defense. Late in a game, you have to protect against the 3pt shot until the last possession of a 1 or 2 pt game. If you are up 4--"hug" or get up on the guards and force 2 pt shots. That is #1 objective. Can't speak to how many times they let an opponent take a 3pt shot and been burned.

The odd forced subbing that Vecenie didn't discuss also has killed Kentucky. There was no reason to sub in Lance Ware at end of the 1st Half. None. Cost UK 4 pts and while everyone says "You got up in 2nd Half-that doesn't matter"-it does. When you were up 8/9-that becomes 12-13 and mentally effects each team differently. Start stretching postseason games to 4 possession leads and never know how a team will respond, but a lot of elbows get tight and shot selection gets heroic instead of breaking you down. Your best players need to play in Postseason period. It's not time to make everyone participate. Oscar had 1 foul and if he gets 2, so be it, but those points gifted away haunt you in the end.

Think the best Oscar critique he offered up was the rebounding stats coming off a lot of blown shots close to rim for Oscar. For every game where he was all over the glass like Providence, there are Oscar moments where it's 3/4 rebs in one possession when a shot should've been put down in the 1st attempt. Hard worker? Absolutely. Crude offensive player? That's true too.
I agree 100% about the subbing issues. Time after time we’ve seen momentum and leads killed because of it and all you get is a “sorry” at the end of the game. Cal continues to be our biggest opponent.
 
I have news for you guys, If Oscar wasn't on this team the last 2 years we are lucky to win 10-12 games each year. Oscar hasn't been and will never be the issue for failed success the last 2 years. It's been our inability to get dominate guard play like we've been used to the first 5-6 years of Cal here.
 
A great piece....just can't be the centerpiece for a championship caliber team. I'm not sure he'd accept the reduced role that would be best for team success
I’m sure he’d accept whatever role that made his team successful. He’s still gonna get his rebounds, which would lead to several points. Just quit trying to run the offense through him and quit putting him in compromising defensive scenarios.
 
The odd forced subbing that Vecenie didn't discuss also has killed Kentucky. There was no reason to sub in Lance Ware at end of the 1st Half. None.
Maybe I’m remembering wrong but I thought Lance came in for Jacob Toppin and was guarding Keyontae Johnson. Maybe Cal just wanted to keep length on Johnson because we had done a good job on him defensively. Don’t get me wrong, I agree with you. I hated it but I’m thinking that was the reason.
 
Maybe I’m remembering wrong but I thought Lance came in for Jacob Toppin and was guarding Keyontae Johnson. Maybe Cal just wanted to keep length on Johnson because we had done a good job on him defensively. Don’t get me wrong, I agree with you. I hated it but I’m thinking that was the reason.
Maybe I'm starting to get dementia, but swore Cal mentioned wanting to make sure Oscar didn't get his 2nd Foul. I know one thing, if you are correct I apologize for being wrong, but I'm not going to go back and watch a second of that game again. Also I hate all of Lance Ware's minutes, so I'm biased against using him at any time. For his dunk he made, he blew a dunk because he couldn't gather and be composed to just go up and finish-cost them 2 pts with a traveling violation.
 
Unless you play him alongside a stretch 5 who happens to be an elite rim protector (few and far between in college basketball), upside of the team will always be capped with Oscar. His defense is worse than many on here would like to admit. Won't go as far as calling him a net negative player because his rebounding is so outrageously good... but yeah, can see a strong argument for why we could end up better off without him even though it sounds counterintuitive at first.
 
Good lord
The problem is the damn coach
Not Oscar
Oscar is a fine piece to work with
The problem can be both. I'm probably in the "ready for Oscar to leave" camp at this point. He's a generational rebounder, but that's all he's great at. He struggles a lot on defense, is a soft finisher around the rim, has a pretty poor midrange game despite trying to take more of them, zero three point game, and often tries to do way too much with the ball and brings it from above his head down into a double or triple team and gets it stripped. And while it might not necessarily be his fault, I do think there's something to the rumors about him causing friction off the court.
 
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Maybe I'm starting to get dementia, but swore Cal mentioned wanting to make sure Oscar didn't get his 2nd Foul. I know one thing, if you are correct I apologize for being wrong, but I'm not going to go back and watch a second of that game again. Also I hate all of Lance Ware's minutes, so I'm biased against using him at any time. For his dunk he made, he blew a dunk because he couldn't gather and be composed to just go up and finish-cost them 2 pts with a traveling violation.
If Cal said that then you’re probably right. I couldn’t bring myself to listen to anything post game. I agree that Lance should never see the floor. Great kid but not good enough to play at Kentucky.
 

Scroll to the 3 minute mark …I have a lot of respect for this guys opinion …says he understands why UK fans are pissed lol …the last couple minutes gives suggestions on what Cal should do with the roster moving forward …said we will never win a championship with Oscar
That is another stupid opinion. To discount a double-double machine is insanity. Maybe there is some anti-Christian agenda.
 
I mean there's a reason that every NBA team runs pick and roll as their #1 offensive set, it is hard to defend. Nothing is insightful about saying teams struggle to defend it. What Vecenie said that made 100% sense is you need roster versatility and that means capable players who can run guys off the 3pt line into the paint where there's rim protection. My biggest complaint with Cal and recent Kentucky teams is their time/score defense. Late in a game, you have to protect against the 3pt shot until the last possession of a 1 or 2 pt game. If you are up 4--"hug" or get up on the guards and force 2 pt shots. That is #1 objective. Can't speak to how many times they let an opponent take a 3pt shot and been burned.

The odd forced subbing that Vecenie didn't discuss also has killed Kentucky. There was no reason to sub in Lance Ware at end of the 1st Half. None. Cost UK 4 pts and while everyone says "You got up in 2nd Half-that doesn't matter"-it does. When you were up 8/9-that becomes 12-13 and mentally effects each team differently. Start stretching postseason games to 4 possession leads and never know how a team will respond, but a lot of elbows get tight and shot selection gets heroic instead of breaking you down. Your best players need to play in Postseason period. It's not time to make everyone participate. Oscar had 1 foul and if he gets 2, so be it, but those points gifted away haunt you in the end.

Think the best Oscar critique he offered up was the rebounding stats coming off a lot of blown shots close to rim for Oscar. For every game where he was all over the glass like Providence, there are Oscar moments where it's 3/4 rebs in one possession when a shot should've been put down in the 1st attempt. Hard worker? Absolutely. Crude offensive player? That's true too.
To build further upon your post I don’t think most fans realize the significance of rim protection. It was the double crappy punch of Oscar’s pick n’ roll defense AND his abysmal rim protection ability that crippled our defense the last two years. Even Cal realizes how much better his UK teams were historically that had elite rim protection he spoke at length about it before the season even started. KAT got all the attention in 2015 but WCS was the primary reason that team was so successful with his elite defensive versatility and rim protection.
 
To build further upon your post I don’t think most fans realize the significance of rim protection. It was the double crappy punch of Oscar’s pick n’ roll defense AND his abysmal rim protection ability that crippled our defense the last two years. Even Cal realizes how much better his UK teams were historically that had elite rim protection. KAT got all the attention in 2015 but WCS was the primary reason that team was so successful with his elite defensive versatility and rim protection.
Absolutely. Perfectly stated. My only problem is no matter how raw, you had a guy on the bench who was the best shot blocker/rim protector in HS basketball on your bench and he can't get 10-15 mins a game? Yet we get Lance Ware for his garbage minutes.
 
Absolutely. Perfectly stated. My only problem is no matter how raw, you had a guy on the bench who was the best shot blocker/rim protector in HS basketball on your bench and he can't get 10-15 mins a game? Yet we get Lance Ware for his garbage minutes.
I have zero clue how dialed in Jack Pilgrim is but yesterday on Sources Say he spoke about how we might lose Ugonna to the Big East because he ‘“made promises” to the people who brought him into the country from Africa and they are trying to obtain the largest bag possible. If we lose him it’s going to crush me because I believe so much in his potential to anchor an ELITE college defense.
 
Imagine having a two time all American and national player of the year and the loudest people want him gone, apparently even national people.

Why is it that there are articles about how great it is for Bacot to come back for UNC and not ones about how it’s best if they part ways.

Didn’t UNC make the NIT last year?

Oscar improved this year for sure. He shot better from the outside, when he got out of the lane and initiated some offense and allowed for others to drive we looked great on offense.

His biggest weakness is bringing the ball down, but if you watched our last game half of the passes were on the ground. If you can teach the guards how to make an entry pass everything changes.

Cal’s defense will always need a shot blocker to be elite because he will never change. Once you know how to score against it you can get whatever shot you want every single time. The only way to stop this is by switching things up or bringing back Anthony Davis.



I suppose it’s the hope thing. We can all hope and dream that it was Oscar’s fault so then next year with the same coach and less experience, worst shooters, the outcome will somehow be better.
 
Good lord
The problem is the damn coach
Not Oscar
Oscar is a fine piece to work with
It's extraordinary that anyone could think anything different. Oscar and Wallace were the only players that could consistently play up to our standards. We were just a very deficient, undeveloped roster created by an absentee coaching staff.
 
I’m sure he’d accept whatever role that made his team successful. He’s still gonna get his rebounds, which would lead to several points. Just quit trying to run the offense through him and quit putting him in compromising defensive scenarios.
I agree
If Oscar meant what he said about it being about the team and not personal awards (and given all we know about him I believe him) then he will absolutely do whatever is needed for this team to win, even if that means a reduced/changed role
 
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I just can't get on board with the Oscar and Kentucky need to part ways mentality....sorry. Oscar is one of the hardest workers I've seen in quite a while and without him, these past 2 miserable years of UK basketball would have been even worse. If he wants to come back for a third year, then I feel like he should be welcomed back; I just don't see running him off...it makes no sense to me. Kentucky's biggest problem is their inept coach. Until Cal is gone, I don't think the roster really matters; the team will not be great.

I’m sure he’d accept whatever role that made his team successful. He’s still gonna get his rebounds, which would lead to several points. Just quit trying to run the offense through him and quit putting him in compromising defensive scenarios.
I'm fine with Oscar coming back , thrilled really , but his role is the offense has to do a 180 .. he really just needs to be a garbage man .
 
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Johnson didn’t beat us. He made a big shot toward the end, but the little guy beat us. He completely facilitated the game the last 5 minutes any way he wanted. Kudos to him. CCC did NOTHING, once again, to counter.

It looks as though 2 straight HOF coaches have failed to make changes and counter at the end of games against the little guy lol.
 
Maybe I'm starting to get dementia, but swore Cal mentioned wanting to make sure Oscar didn't get his 2nd Foul. I know one thing, if you are correct I apologize for being wrong, but I'm not going to go back and watch a second of that game again. Also I hate all of Lance Ware's minutes, so I'm biased against using him at any time. For his dunk he made, he blew a dunk because he couldn't gather and be composed to just go up and finish-cost them 2 pts with a traveling violation.
Ware my be a good person but he does not belong on any top program
 
Maybe I’m remembering wrong but I thought Lance came in for Jacob Toppin and was guarding Keyontae Johnson. Maybe Cal just wanted to keep length on Johnson because we had done a good job on him defensively. Don’t get me wrong, I agree with you. I hated it but I’m thinking that was the reason.
He came in for Toppin at the end of the game.
 
But he won’t. So you can’t play him if you’re trying to win championships.
There again .. players first ... leads to where we are currently . Refused to play the Bennie lineup all season . Was months late sending Cason to the PG spot .. refused to start IQ FORVER .. played that dipshit that was always lost over Derek Willis ( Gabriel ??) for over 1/2 a season . Wouldnt play Liv in the right spot this year . Refused to play B Hopkins period . Wouldnt play Theiro .. its endless it seems . Its all on Cal and his roster management , and then the PT he decides to give each play .. its all nonsensical to the point we are a laughing stock.
 
I agree that Oscar has a flawed game and that we're not going to win a title playing the style we have with him as the focal point....but with no realistic short-term alternative, the results next year will likely be (much) worse. The fact is, we're all just stuck waiting until Cal leaves. That's when real change will occur and maybe we can finally have some genuine and effective offensive and defensive strategy. Until that time, in my opinion, we still need Oscar just to keep the bottom from falling out and having another 20-21 nightmare.
 
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