Roe v Wade

[Caveman Catfan]

RvW is the shiny object R's have been chasing for decades. Both parties live off fear. Have you not listened to a political ad before? Conservative ads sound like a horror movie while liberal ads urge us to stop the far right agenda before it's too late. At least be honest about this stuff without delving into this "it's just the dems!" talking point. Your political alter verbiage is tiresome too. Should we just pretend the right hasn't worshipped at the alter of one very angry man since 2015? But that's neither here nor there. Bottom line on RvW is that it's now a state issue. State. So hopefully going forward if R's begin talking up a national ban, I look forward to seeing you and others here shutting that idea down, because after all, it's up to the states now. My guess however, is that my side will talk of more rights being taken away while your side talks of going further with a ban to eliminate all abortions and you'll support that.

Honesty is good. Honest people admit Roe was bad law. Look at the justices that Dems have place on the bench. None of them could admit Roe was bad law. Why? Because, sorry if this gets old for you, they worship at a political alter and that alter takes precedent over abiding by the law. They dissented without making ANY attempt to support the fiction stated in Roe. Why? Because they could not. But; that did not stop them from aligning with a political argument over performing their jobs honestly. Do you think it just a coincidence that the Dems picked such justices? It’s not, because achieving a political end is the role of a liberal judge.

And, don’t think otherwise, I want abortion ended in every state. Do I think that will happen? No. But, at least now we can attempt an honest debate so that the voters can decide.

 

[TCurtis75]

All I have to do is say that liberals are fear-mongers and a liberal proves my point. Thanks.

This also proves that liberals are afraid of democratic systems. If abortion is debated on the public stage and people vote for representation that best meets their perspective …. the world will crash and burn and people will be burned at the stake!!! They claim Trump wanted to destroy democracy and then THEY espouse anti-democratic principles to get what they want.

LOL. You cannot make this liberal foolishness up.

Get ready for a huge helping of I told ya so. You won’t notice because you will be too busy breaking your arm patting yourself and other Republicans on the back.

 

[ukcatz12]

Wow, thanks for providing the far-left viewpoint. Good lord. Banning advil 😂

Advil can induce abortions. There are many medical treatments that kill a fetus, so for a woman to get one she needs an abortion first. Leukemia treatment is one of them. Will these laws be written with a long list of medication that's banned? No. They'll be written with vague phrases like "any medication or medical treatment that has the potential to kill a fetus" is now banned.

We've been through the effects of vague legislation before with the Florida don't say gay bill. What's happening there is exactly what I said was going to happen, despite numerous people on this board calling my an unreasonable groomer. I said the law was too vague and it would result in gay teachers not being allowed to display pictures of their spouse on their desk. And what's happening? School boards are issuing guidance telling teachers not to put a picture of their spouse on their desk, despite that not be explicitly banned in the bill.

So what's going to happen with abortion bans? They'll have vague language about what is banned. Doctors and pharmacies, not wanting to risk a murder charge or losing their license, will err on the side of caution and just refuse to treatment to pregnant women. The American College of Rheumatology is already investigating reports of women being denied treatment because doctors are afraid it would open them up to legal liability, and it's literally been a week since Roe was overturned. It's really only a stones throw away before pharmacies start putting any drug that can induce abortion, Advil among them, under lock and key and just refusing to sell them to any women of child bearing age.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

How do you breath with your head buried so far in the sand? You can guarantee there will be a national ban just as soon as the right gets control of Congress. States like Michigan have already said they want to look at banning same sex marriage. Reversing RvW is just the beginning and no amount of justification from you will change that reality. We will be living back in the 50s and 60s before you know it. Straight and gay water fountains here we come.

Note that TCurtis is upset Roe was overturned, but has NOT ONCE attempted to make a legal argument supporting Roe or a constitutional right to abortion. So, you can bemoan the outcome, but you cannot deny it was the wrong outcome. So, your position seems to be as I suggest. You don’t care if achieving your politics goal is legal or not, you just want your way.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Advil can induce abortions. There are many medical treatments that kill a fetus, so for a woman to get one she needs an abortion first. Leukemia treatment is one of them. Will these laws be written with a long list of medication that's banned? No. They'll be written with vague phrases like "any medication or medical treatment that has the potential to kill a fetus" is now banned.

We've been through the effects of vague legislation before with the Florida don't say gay bill. What's happening there is exactly what I said was going to happen, despite numerous people on this board calling my an unreasonable groomer. I said the law was too vague and it would result in gay teachers not being allowed to display pictures of their spouse on their desk. And what's happening? School boards are issuing guidance telling teachers not to put a picture of their spouse on their desk, despite that not be explicitly banned in the bill.

So what's going to happen with abortion bans? They'll have vague language about what is banned. Doctors and pharmacies, not wanting to risk a murder charge or losing their license, will err on the side of caution and just refuse to treatment to pregnant women. The American College of Rheumatology is already investigating reports of women being denied treatment because doctors are afraid it would open them up to legal liability, and it's literally been a week since Roe was overturned. It's really only a stones throw away before pharmacies start putting any drug that can induce abortion, Advil among them, under lock and key and just refuse to sell them to any women of child bearing age.

^^ this is fearmongering that rejects democratic representation. “They” will do this. “They” will do that. As if political accountability is not in the voting booth. Don’t be fooled by this tripe. “They” means “you,” the voter. Progressives don’t want voters (you) to have a say in this discussion. That is why liberals loved Roe. No discussion or debate and, definitely, no vote. Some version of abortion restriction existed in 30 states when Roe was forced onto the public. That means voters in 30 states lost their right to have a say in the process (voters in all 50, but in 30, the will of the people was squashed). This is what dictatorships and oligarchies look like. You, the voter, have no say. So, when you see someone decrying Roe being overturned, that liberal does not really want you to have a voice in government, unless it is their voice.

 

[Nightwish84]

And, don’t think otherwise, I want abortion ended in every state. Do I think that will happen? No. But, at least now we can attempt an honest debate so that the voters can decide.

I respect that honesty and understand it. Make no mistake however, your apparently very innocent and does nothing wrong side won't be pleased until there is a national ban and one of the leaders of your party has already expressed that that's a goal. Again, give an inch, take a mile. Heard that countless times in mass shooting threads re: guns. I've read several times now that it's a state issue. Will that goal post be moved if Mitch and others begin talk of a complete ban? You don't have to answer because it's a yes. But let voters decide, I agree. If an R who is using a national ban as a talking point wins, so be it.

 

[ukcatz12]

^^ this is fearmongering that rejects democratic representation. “They” will do this. “They” will do that. As if political accountability is not in the voting booth.

Cool. That doesn't do anything when states are gerrymandered to hell and have essentially locked in single party rule despite that party being in the minority. Look up the case Moore v. Harper that SCOTUS has agreed to hear next term, and the consequences of SCOTUS ruling in favor of the Independent State Legislature Doctrine. Voting might soon mean nothing. You can keep dismissing concerns all you want, and it's probably easier for you to do so because "your team" is the one that will be in power, but in five years I'll telling you guys "I told you so" from Canada.

 

[IdaCat]

Cool. That doesn't do anything when states are gerrymandered to hell and have essentially locked in single party rule despite that party being in the minority. Look up the case Moore v. Harper that SCOTUS has agreed to hear next term, and the consequences of SCOTUS ruling in favor of the Independent State Legislature Doctrine. Voting might soon mean nothing. You can keep dismissing concerns all you want, and it's probably easier for you to do so because "your team" is the one that will be in power, but in five years I'll telling you guys "I told you so" from Canada.

If I had a nickle for every unhinged, emotional democrat who said they were going to move to Canada if their party loses power ...

Bullshit. You'll stay here, double down on your divisive identity politics and political correct idiocy, incite burn, loot, murder riots, and do all you can to destabilize and destroy the country. Just like you've done before.

I suggest we swap you and all of your leftist radical comrades with freedom loving Canadians. You can have your totalitarian socialist "utopia" and the rational Canadians can enjoy living in our constitutional republic. Win win.

To hear a democrat complain about voting is laughable given what they did to steal the last election.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I respect that honesty and understand it. Make no mistake however, your apparently very innocent and does nothing wrong side won't be pleased until there is a national ban and one of the leaders of your party has already expressed that that's a goal. Again, give an inch, take a mile. Heard that countless times in mass shooting threads re: guns. I've read several times now that it's a state issue. Will that goal post be moved if Mitch and others begin talk of a complete ban? You don't have to answer because it's a yes. But let voters decide, I agree. If an R who is using a national ban as a talking point wins, so be it.

50 years for an inch. The other side took the whole country with the stroke of an unlawful pen. I don’t know what the GOP will or won’t do, but common sense dictates that you have to win the hearts of the voters on the subject or we will see federal law twist and turn through every change. I doubt that is the objective. Rather, I suspect that the tide will level across most of the country with some states all but eliminating the act and some states all but encouraging it, but most states having laws similar to Mississippi’s, even if Mississippi moves its needle further.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Cool. That doesn't do anything when states are gerrymandered to hell and have essentially locked in single party rule despite that party being in the minority. Look up the case Moore v. Harper that SCOTUS has agreed to hear next term, and the consequences of SCOTUS ruling in favor of the Independent State Legislature Doctrine. Voting might soon mean nothing. You can keep dismissing concerns all you want, and it's probably easier for you to do so because "your team" is the one that will be in power, but in five years I'll telling you guys "I told you so" from Canada.

Listening to liberals complain about gerrymandering, as if it was a GOP thing, is like listening to Hillary or
Stacey Abrams complain about Trump claiming he won in 2020. If you want a dictatorship, Canada is looking like the place to go. Enjoy. It’s a beautiful country.

 

[Warrior Poet31]

 

[phunterd]

< — lifelong conservative who has always been pro-life but it was way way down on the importance list for me.

That all changed when my daughter was born at 29 weeks old in 2019. This coincided with the push in deep blue states to legalize abortion until the moment of birth. It’s abhorrent and sickening that we have reached that point.

Seeing those laws come to life made me ardently pro-life. Those on the left in this thread state their supposed opposition to full term abortion. Yet more and more blue states are enacting completely unrestricted abortion. If most of you are truly opposed to that then take it up with your side because that memo was missed.

Because that’s what led to this. When you push the envelope that far then you deserve what’s happened to Roe.

Good riddance.

 

[TCurtis75]

< — lifelong conservative who has always been pro-life but it was way way down on the importance list for me.

That all changed when my daughter was born at 29 weeks old in 2019. This coincided with the push in deep blue states to legalize abortion until the moment of birth. It’s abhorrent and sickening that we have reached that point.

Seeing those laws come to life made me ardently pro-life. Those on the left in this thread state their supposed opposition to full term abortion. Yet more and more blue states are enacting completely unrestricted abortion. If most of you are truly opposed to that then take it up with your side because that memo was missed.

Because that’s what led to this. When you push the envelope that far then you deserve what’s happened to Roe.

Good riddance.

So glad you think a 10 year old deserves to be forced to carry a baby to term after being raped. So glad you think that a cancer patient deserves to be refused chemo because a doctor is afraid of what will happen to them if the fetus is killed as a result. So glad that you think a woman deserves ti be refused her medication to treat Lupus because of potential harm to a fetus. So glad you think a child deserves to grow up without a mother because she was refused life saving treatment due to illness or injury because of a threat to the fetus. That’s what you think people deserve. That’s not pro life that’s pro birth because you don’t give a shit about the life of the mother. That says more about you than anyone else. Does your child deserve to grow up motherless? Any of the above scenarios could happen to your wife and according to you she deserves it.

 

[phunterd]

So glad you think a 10 year old deserves to be forced to carry a baby to term after being raped. So glad you think that a cancer patient deserves to be refused chemo because a doctor is afraid of what will happen to them if the fetus is killed as a result. So glad that you think a woman deserves ti be refused her medication to treat Lupus because of potential harm to a fetus. So glad you think a child deserves to grow up without a mother because she was refused life saving treatment due to illness or injury because of a threat to the fetus. That’s what you think people deserve. That’s not pro life that’s pro birth because you don’t give a shit about the life of the mother. That says more about you than anyone else. Does your child deserve to grow up motherless? Any of the above scenarios could happen to your wife and according to you she deserves it.

Yeah, you’re right, I didn’t give a shit about my wife’s life when her water broke at 18 weeks and bedridden in the hospital for another 11 weeks. Give me a ****ing break.

Everything you just posted is AT BEST a half truth and easily debunked. I’ve walked in one of those shoes you just described while we also had a two year old son at home. And you know what? It made me value the life of the unborn even more.

So save your leftist talking points and shaming for Twitter. You’re barking up the wrong tree on this one.

 

[TCurtis75]

Yeah, you’re right, I didn’t give a shit about my wife’s life when her water broke at 18 weeks and bedridden in the hospital for another 11 weeks. Give me a ****ing break.

Everything you just posted is AT BEST a half truth and easily debunked. I’ve walked in one of those shoes you just described while we also had a two year old son at home. And you know what? It made me value the life of the unborn even more.

So save your leftist talking points and shaming for Twitter. You’re barking up the wrong tree on this one.

So you value the life of the unborn more than the life of the mother. And all those I posted have happened since the RvW decision. A 10 year old had to go to Indiana from Ohio because she was at 6 weeks 3 days pregnant from being abused by her uncle. What did she do to deserve that? Two women in Texas (one with cancer and one with Lupus) were unable to get treatment after the ruling. You still are pro birth not pro life. You don’t value life at all at least not all life. I’m merely pointing out what you said. Your words are they deserve it. That means your wife, family, or friends deserve it when it happens to them. You are the one that is speaking out his ass with his they deserve it nonsense.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

So you value the life of the unborn more than the life of the mother. And all those I posted have happened since the RvW decision. A 10 year old had to go to Indiana from Ohio because she was at 6 weeks 3 days pregnant from being abused by her uncle. What did she do to deserve that? Two women in Texas (one with cancer and one with Lupus) were unable to get treatment after the ruling. You still are pro birth not pro life. You don’t value life at all at least not all life. I’m merely pointing out what you said. Your words are they deserve it. That means your wife, family, or friends deserve it when it happens to them. You are the one that is speaking out his ass with his they deserve it nonsense.

Deserve it? Just make your point without the self-righteous misinterpretation of your opponent’s. You will not be able to convince people who know science that a human life is ended with abortion.

You and pro-lifers do not disagree on rape. Rape is horrific. It tests me about the death penalty and torturing people. We agree on that.

We probably also agree that the life (for you, the non-personhood zygote) created as a result of some rapes is “innocent,” meaning nothing worthy of punishment.

You believe ending the pregnancy (killing the life in the womb) is justified when rape occurs. I see that point, but disagree.

And, we both agree that voters will now get a chance to vote on this very issue.

They will also vote on the 95% of abortions that have no such moral quandaries, those done for convenience and birth control. You say you don’t like those, but your conclusions are not worthy of a law stopping others who disagree with you. We disagree.

 

[TCurtis75]

Deserve it? Just make your point without the self-righteous misinterpretation of your opponent’s. You will not be able to convince people who know science that a human life is ended with abortion.

You and pro-lifers do not disagree on rape. Rape is horrific. It tests me about the death penalty and torturing people. We agree on that.

We probably also agree that the life (for you, the non-personhood zygote) created as a result of some rapes is “innocent,” meaning nothing worthy of punishment.

You believe ending the pregnancy (killing the life in the womb) is justified when rape occurs. I see that point, but disagree.

And, we both agree that voters will now get a chance to vote on this very issue.

They will also vote on the 95% of abortions that have no such moral quandaries, those done for convenience and birth control. You say you don’t like those, but your conclusions are not worthy of a law stopping others who disagree with you. We disagree.

He said “you deserve what happens to Roe”. Those things are what happened to Roe. Don’t blame me because he chose an extremely poor choice of words and I called him out on it.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

He said “you deserve what happens to Roe”. Those things are what happened to Roe. Don’t blame me because he chose an extremely poor choice of words and I called him out on it.

He did not say that in the post to which you responded with the “deserve” comment.

 

[TCurtis75]

He did not say that in the post to which you responded with the “deserve” comment.

He most certainly did say that. And those three are examples of what happened to Roe. So again, he was the one with the poor choice of words not me. That’s the problem when you make a broad brush generic statement like you deserve what happened to Roe.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Yeah, you’re right, I didn’t give a shit about my wife’s life when her water broke at 18 weeks and bedridden in the hospital for another 11 weeks. Give me a ****ing break.

Everything you just posted is AT BEST a half truth and easily debunked. I’ve walked in one of those shoes you just described while we also had a two year old son at home. And you know what? It made me value the life of the unborn even more.

So save your leftist talking points and shaming for Twitter. You’re barking up the wrong tree on this one.

He most certainly did say that. And those three are examples of what happened to Roe. So again, he was the one with the poor choice of words not me. That’s the problem when you make a broad brush generic statement like you deserve what happened to Roe.

Yeah, I am going to need you to show me where he said they deserve it and then you responded. Just am not seeing it. The post to which you responded is above.

 

[TCurtis75]

Yeah, I am going to need you to show me where he said they deserve it and then you responded. Just am not seeing it. The post to which you responded is above.

< — lifelong conservative who has always been pro-life but it was way way down on the importance list for me.

That all changed when my daughter was born at 29 weeks old in 2019. This coincided with the push in deep blue states to legalize abortion until the moment of birth. It’s abhorrent and sickening that we have reached that point.

Seeing those laws come to life made me ardently pro-life. Those on the left in this thread state their supposed opposition to full term abortion. Yet more and more blue states are enacting completely unrestricted abortion. If most of you are truly opposed to that then take it up with your side because that memo was missed.

Because that’s what led to this. When you push the envelope that far then you deserve what’s happened to Roe.

Good riddance.

His last sentence. They deserve it.

 

[phunterd]

His last sentence. They deserve it.

Read closer. I said those that pushed abortion to the point of unrestricted for any reason up until birth got what they deserved. And I stand by that. Because there are ZERO reasons for abortion up until birth.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

His last sentence. They deserve it.

2 things.

The first is obvious. That is not the post to which you responded when you said his wife deserved it. Rather, he had just posted about his wife almost dying, it appears, and you laid down the ugly.

Second, he never said a young woman deserved it. He said that liberals pushing for late term unfettered abortions is what changed people’s minds, like his, and the overturning of Roe was a just response.

It really appears your response was way out of bounds, considering he JUST told you his wife suffered, and now you are trying to justify it.

 

[TCurtis75]

Read closer. I said those that pushed abortion to the point of unrestricted for any reason up until birth got what they deserved. And I stand by that. Because there are ZERO reasons for abortion up until birth.

You are saying all need to be punished for what some did. That’s the true outcome of this. Which you fail to acknowledge. Those politicians don’t suffer. The 10 year old abuse victim and the cancer patient “deserve” it. The number of abortions in the 3rd trimester except in extreme circumstances is extremely rare. Forcing a 10 year old to have a baby or keeping women from medical care because they are pregnant seems to be a gross overreach of what is right in those situations. Then you have people like that congresswoman in Ohio who said pregancy from rape is an “opportunity” and then said she was willing to entertain making birth control illegal. That’s what is coming next.

 

[TCurtis75]

2 things.

The first is obvious. That is not the post to which you responded when you said his wife deserved it. Rather, he had just posted about his wife almost dying, it appears, and you laid down the ugly.

Second, he never said a young woman deserved it. He said that liberals pushing for late term unfettered abortions is what changed people’s minds, like his, and the overturning of Roe was a just response.

It really appears your response was way out of bounds, considering he JUST told you his wife suffered, and now you are trying to justify it.

My first response about his wife was in direct response to his deserve it post. You should go back and look. Secondly, I didn’t say his wife deserved it. He did. I just used his words against him.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

My first response about his wife was in direct response to his deserve it post. You should go back and look. Secondly, I didn’t say his wife deserved it. He did. I just used his words against him.

Wow.

 

[TCurtis75]

Wow.

In fact I’ll go a step further. I think it is awful what she had to endure and I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. However, with the current ruling, a doctor could have denied her medical care because of the fetus being at risk. Is that the correct application of this ruling? Does she deserve that? Hunter said she did because some liberals argued for abortion up until birth.(I have yet to see any actual proof of that btw. It was a claim by Mike Pence that politifact has rated as false and spare me the fake news nonsense. It was never a movement within the left.) That is the result of the ruling that Hunter said people deserve. That is the problem with painting anything with a broad brush like he did.

PolitiFact - Fact-checking Pence’s claim on Democrats and abortion ‘up to the moment of birth’

In his debate appearance Oct. 7, Vice President Mike Pence sought to spotlight the difference between the Republican and

www.politifact.com

 

[Sawnee Cat]

This is a beautiful piece of art.

 

[Ed323232]

This is a beautiful piece of art.

She must be married.