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Rings of Power series on Amazon in Sept

It's pretty but its really lacking plot and dialogue. Man that was bad. None of the elves look like elves. It's 90% original story with original characters.

I caught myself laughing at some of the dialogue. The elf cities looked beautiful though. The dwarf city looked qwesome. Just can't get past Celebrimbor and Galadriel being so un elf like. Galadriel might as well be Red Sonja.
 
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Guy on the radio today said the visuals are beautiful, but the first episode is big on background. Said second was better, but was not yet hooked.

I personally haven’t had a chance to watch the first episodes yet, but what you heard wouldn’t surprise me. It seems like all of these streaming shows feel like they need a big wind up at the start and take a little while to get going.

I wish some of the writers of these shows would learn to trust their audience more and jump into things a bit quicker (and also learn to reveal character by subtly showing actions / decisions rather than feeing like we need things explained to us through expository dialogue).

Take the original Star Wars as an example. Lucas jumped right into things from the very first shot, and even as a very young kid, I was able to keep up without needing a ton of context or explanation.

Audiences are usually a little sharper than a lot of writers give them credit, and we can keep up with what’s happening on screen as long as there’s an engaging story that makes it worth our while to pay attention.

Sorry for the rant, but that kind of thing is a bit of a pet peeve for me and your post reminded me of it.
 
It's pretty but its really lacking plot and dialogue. Man that was bad. None of the elves look like elves. It's 90% original story with original characters.

I caught myself laughing at some of the dialogue. The elf cities looked beautiful though. The dwarf city looked qwesome. Just can't get past Celebrimbor and Galadriel being so un elf like. Galadriel might as well be Red Sonja.
Melodrama and drawn out scenes in first episode. Will watch second sometime this weekend.
 
I also couldn't finish the first episode. I might eventually revisit it after a few seasons.

I really like the other shows I'm watching, though, She-Hulk and Star Trek: Lower Decks. I expected Lower Decks to be a total joke but it's practically a love letter to the Star Trek old shows.
 
That’s close to how Tolkien described Galadriel in her younger years. Not sure why that should be a surprise to people.

Maybe it was and my memory failed me over time. Obviously a being of great power. Just don't recall her being a sword wielding warrior.
 
Maybe it was and my memory failed me over time. Obviously a being of great power. Just don't recall her being a sword wielding warrior.

Tolkien described her as being an amazon and the original name her mom gave her meant “man maiden” because of how tall and strong she was.

She also fought against Feanor’s forces during the first kinslaying and led hosts of Noldor across the frozen north to return to Middle-Earth during their exile.

She was less of a hot head as she got older and refrained from fighting in most of the first age battles. She didn’t see the point in fighting Morgoth without the aid of the Valar and when Feanor’s sons were still hellbent on slaughtering other elves.

But she definitely wouldn’t shy away from a fight when she was younger and had the benefit of being the second most powerful elf to ever have lived.
 
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That’s close to how Tolkien described Galadriel in her younger years. Not sure why that should be a surprise to people.


Tolkien described her as being an amazon and the original name her mom gave her meant “man maiden” because of how tall and strong she was.

She also fought against Feanor’s forces during the first kinslaying and led hosts of Noldor across the frozen north to return to Middle-Earth during their exile.

She was less of a hot head as she got older and refrained from fighting in most of the first age battles. She didn’t see the point in fighting Morgoth without the aid of the Valar and when Feanor’s sons were still hellbent on slaughtering other elves.

But she definitely wouldn’t shy away from a fight when she was younger and had the benefit of being the second most powerful elf to ever have lived.

Interesting. I have read the LOTR twice. Please tell me that information is in his addendum historical writings.
 
Interesting. I have read the LOTR twice. Please tell me that information is in his addendum historical writings.

Depending upon which part your referring to, you’d find it in a few different places: Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The Nature of Middle-Earth, Tolkien’s published letters, etc.
 
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Tolkien described her as being an amazon and the original name her mom gave her meant “man maiden” because of how tall and strong she was.

She also fought against Feanor’s forces during the first kinslaying and led hosts of Noldor across the frozen north to return to Middle-Earth during their exile.

She was less of a hot head as she got older and refrained from fighting in most of the first age battles. She didn’t see the point in fighting Morgoth without the aid of the Valar and when Feanor’s sons were still hellbent on slaughtering other elves.

But she definitely wouldn’t shy away from a fight when she was younger and had the benefit of being the second most powerful elf to ever have lived.

I read LOTR, the Hobbit, and silmarillion and just never got that vision of her. I certainly haven't read the other material you mentioned so I'm in no position to contest. Obviously since she had a ring, she was extremely powerful, being a master of physical combat is just never how I envisioned her at all.
 
I read LOTR, the Hobbit, and silmarillion and just never got that vision of her. I certainly haven't read the other material you mentioned so I'm in no position to contest. Obviously since she had a ring, she was extremely powerful, being a master of physical combat is just never how I envisioned her at all.
Yeah, you definitely wouldn’t be left with that image of her from the LOTR and it’s barely hinted at in the Silmarillion.

And sorry, wasn’t trying to argue if it came across that way. I was more just trying to point it out.

I’d also say in fairness to your impression of her, Tolkien was constantly re-writing elements of her backstory. He made far more changes to her history than for any of his other characters. He was basically in a constant state of adjusting things for her, and to a lesser extent, Celeborn.

So you could argue that there isn’t a singular, “true” version of her character because Tolkien himself never got there. He was rewriting parts of her history right up until shortly before his death.
 
Yeah, you definitely wouldn’t be left with that image of her from the LOTR and it’s barely hinted at in the Silmarillion.

And sorry, wasn’t trying to argue if it came across that way. I was more just trying to point it out.

I’d also say in fairness to your impression of her, Tolkien was constantly re-writing elements of her backstory. He made far more changes to her history than for any of his other characters. He was basically in a constant state of adjusting things for her, and to a lesser extent, Celeborn.

So you could argue that there isn’t a singular, “true” version of her character because Tolkien himself never got there. He was rewriting parts of her history right up until shortly before his death.

No worries at all. I appreciate the info. I know he had a lot of writing outside the most popular stuff. So I enjoy hearing about it
 
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i thought the second episode is really sound. Looking forward to the next.

Agree. At first was afraid it was basically a galadriel series but good to see it's more ensemble.

Curious who the stranger will turn out to be.


I agree it's probably not gandalf and almost surely not sauran. I don't think there is a chance in hell it's Tom bombadil because iirc he was present since the beginning of time. I do think it's definitely an istari so I think it will be interesting how he is used in the series.

Definitely watching the next episode
 
The prologue of the first age was great especially the poisoning of the trees.

Visually it is stunning. I would expect Galadriel to be a badass warrior. No problem there. What I do have a problem with is they treat her like she is some foot soldier. In the lore she is married and ruling her own land by now. "Forcing" her to return to Valinor is beyond head scratching of a creative choice.

And Galadriel going for a dip in open sea near Valinor and coming across a random group of humans is geographically ridiculous. That would be like jumping ship off the coast of North Carolina and meeting some ship wrecked peasants from Rome in 350 BC.
 
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I read LOTR, the Hobbit, and silmarillion and just never got that vision of her. I certainly haven't read the other material you mentioned so I'm in no position to contest. Obviously since she had a ring, she was extremely powerful, being a master of physical combat is just never how I envisioned her at all.
Yea. Its like people would call Eisenhower a war hero. Doesn't mean he was mowing down Germans with a thompson sub machine gun. And that's what this feels like. Snow troll kills everyone easily and she jumps off a dudes sword and effortlessly kills it. The need of hollywood now adays to portray strong female characters as masculine is already old.
 
Just to point out. When Galadriel jumped out of the boat she was at best 100's of miles from the nearest land. It would of taken her weeks at the very least to swim back.
 
Agree. At first was afraid it was basically a galadriel series but good to see it's more ensemble.

Curious who the stranger will turn out to be.


I agree it's probably not gandalf and almost surely not sauran. I don't think there is a chance in hell it's Tom bombadil because iirc he was present since the beginning of time. I do think it's definitely an istari so I think it will be interesting how he is used in the series.

Definitely watching the next episode
Would agree with you.

First episode was a bit slow, but I definitely enjoyed the second one more. Particularly the portions that focused on the dwarves and what was happening with the orcs reappearing among the men. Hopefully the show will continue to get stronger over the rest of thseason.

As to the stranger, I’d assume that the odds of him being Tom Bombadil have got to be almost nonexistent. As you mentioned, while he was one of the most enigmatic of Tolkien’s characters, many assumed he was present from the beginning. So I definitely agree with you on this as well.

My guess is that the Stranger has to be one of the Maiar (I think the producers may have hinted at this too, iirc). I doubt he’s Gandalf, because Gandalf was hesitant to go to Middle-Earth when he was sent during the Third Age. I don’t see that being the case unless maybe Gandalf had been to Middle-Earth before and didn’t want to go back again, but I don’t recall Tolkien ever mentioning that.

It’s trickier as to whether the Stranger is Sauron because it’s hard to tell if the writers are dropping clues or red herrings. For example, Galadriel mentioned there was magic in the fortress they found that prevented their torches from giving off heat. When Nori finds the Stranger, the fire around the impact crater also doesn’t give off heat.

Nor does the Stranger’s body give off heat. We know that Sauron’s hand gave off so much heat that it burned Gil-Galad to death during the battle at the end of the second age, but Nori touched his hand without any issue. So maybe he’s not Sauron, or maybe he is and was using magic to block him from giving off heat.

Also, when Sauron allowed the Numenoreans to capture him in the Second Age, he was known to them as “the wizard.” So you could argue that Sauron in that form was the first Gandalf-type character to have ever existed in Middle-Earth and maybe the writers are playing up on that. He also told the elves he was a messenger from the Valar when he appeared in fair form to them. His entrance via a flaming meteor from the west would support his story to the elves.

So back to my point, he could be Sauron or it could simply be that the writers are dropping some dubious hints to keep us guessing. It’s tough to say right now.
 
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Even fantasy shouldn't break internal logic.
I can see where you’re coming from given what the writers have revealed on screen thus far.

That said, from an internal logic perspective, Galadriel’s situation when adrift is completely plausible within Tolkien’s world if you are familiar with what he’s written about Ulmo.

Ulmo was the Vala associated with the seas and all the waters of Middle-Earth (basically Tolkien’s version of Poseidon). He was also the only one of the Valar to constantly remain in Middle-Earth and he was the one who cared the most about elves and men. On several occasions, he intervened in supernatural ways that would be considered miraculous on behalf of those he considered to be acting nobly. The fact that a giant sea creature caused the other castaways to be near Galadriel hints at Ulmo’s intervention.

But if you’re not already familiar with that additional detail, then I can certainly understand why you might think that Galadriel being saved by the castaways seems a little far-fetched given the geography.
 
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I have only watched the LOTR and Hobbit movies (never read any of the books), but I have enjoyed it thus far. The first episode was sort of slow, but I feel like it has picked up. Good fantasy is hard to find, so I'm hoping it is a success.
 
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I can see where you’re coming from given what the writers have revealed on screen thus far.

That said, from an internal logic perspective, Galadriel’s situation when adrift is completely plausible within Tolkien’s world if you are familiar with what he’s written about Ulmo.

Ulmo was the Vala associated with the seas and all the waters of Middle-Earth (basically Tolkien’s version of Poseidon). He was also the only one of the Valar to constantly remain in Middle-Earth and he was the one who cared the most about elves and men. On several occasions, he intervened in supernatural ways that would be considered miraculous on behalf of those he considered to be acting nobly. The fact that a giant sea creature caused the other castaways to be near Galadriel hints at Ulmo’s intervention.

But if you’re not already familiar with that additional detail, then I can certainly understand why you might think that Galadriel being saved by the castaways seems a little far-fetched given the geography.
I am well aware of that and if that is the route they were going for they did a terrible job of portraying any divine influence. Even a subtle nod would have sufficed. The real problem, given who Galadriel is, she should never have been put in that position in the first place.
 
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I can see where you’re coming from given what the writers have revealed on screen thus far.

That said, from an internal logic perspective, Galadriel’s situation when adrift is completely plausible within Tolkien’s world if you are familiar with what he’s written about Ulmo.

Ulmo was the Vala associated with the seas and all the waters of Middle-Earth (basically Tolkien’s version of Poseidon). He was also the only one of the Valar to constantly remain in Middle-Earth and he was the one who cared the most about elves and men. On several occasions, he intervened in supernatural ways that would be considered miraculous on behalf of those he considered to be acting nobly. The fact that a giant sea creature caused the other castaways to be near Galadriel hints at Ulmo’s intervention.

But if you’re not already familiar with that additional detail, then I can certainly understand why you might think that Galadriel being saved by the castaways seems a little far-fetched given the geography.
What about taking up Finrod's mission to hunt orcs? Does it make sense for her to take up that mission and seek revenge for his death? Would it also make sense for Gil Galad to send her back to Valinor? Does it make sense that Elrond, son of Earendil, wasn't allowed to come to a meeting because it was only for lords? Finwe, Fingolfin, Turgon bloodline... He couldn't come to the meeting. LOL... and he's writing speeches for Gil Galad.

You have to admit almost all of this is fan fiction. They are using a few words here and there to create entirely original stuff. It seems like Ulmo sending someone to save her at sea would of been mentioned.
 
What about taking up Finrod's mission to hunt orcs? Does it make sense for her to take up that mission and seek revenge for his death? Would it also make sense for Gil Galad to send her back to Valinor? Does it make sense that Elrond, son of Earendil, wasn't allowed to come to a meeting because it was only for lords? Finwe, Fingolfin, Turgon bloodline... He couldn't come to the meeting. LOL... and he's writing speeches for Gil Galad.

You have to admit almost all of this is fan fiction. They are using a few words here and there to create entirely original stuff. It seems like Ulmo sending someone to save her at sea would of been mentioned.
There are changes made to adapt it to the screen, but that’s hardly fan fiction. Without any changes, it would simply be impossible to bring the full story of the rings during the second age to the screen. Many of these types of changes are also not that different from changes made for Peter Jackson’s films. I take it you hate Jackson’s film trilogy as much as you seem to hate the first two episodes of this show?

As to whether Galadriel would seek revenge, if you could call it that, why should that be a surprise given the history of the Noldor? The entire first age is nothing but a tale of great tragedy caused by the pride of the Noldor and their decision to rebel against the Valar so that they could pursue revenge against Morgoth. Morgoth successfully corrupted the hearts of the Noldor and revenge was the ultimate driver of many of the major events of the first age.

And Galadriel was as strong willed as the rest of the Noldor. Tolkien also wrote that she was unwilling to leave while Sauron remained undefeated, which is really her motivation here and not simply hunting orcs. She was also the only one to suspect a singular force was behind the stirrings of evil in the early second age, recognizing that long before anyone else. While the show may have changed some specific facts of her story, overall, her characterization has been pretty consistent with Tolkien’s writings. As long as they adhere to the spirit of Tolkien’s writings, I have no issue if they need to make some changes in order to adapt the story to the screen.

I’m also not sure why Elrond’s exclusion from a meeting of elf lords would be surprising to you either. Elrond started out as a lore master and Gil-Galad’s herald. He wasn’t given lordship over his own lands until after he founded Rivendell and was given one of the three elven rings by Gil-Galad. At that point, Gil-Galad appointed Elrond vice-regent of Eriador, making him a lord for the first time. That didn’t occur until after all the rings were forged and Sauron had laid waste to Eregion, but I’m not really sure why you think Elrond’s exclusion is a major problem anyway.

Perhaps the bigger issue here is that you aren’t as familiar with Tolkien’s writings as you seem to think you are.
 
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There are changes made to adapt it to the screen, but that’s hardly fan fiction. Without any changes, it would simply be impossible to bring the full story of the rings during the second age to the screen. Many of these types of changes are also not that different from changes made for Peter Jackson’s films. I take it you hate Jackson’s film trilogy as much as you seem to hate the first two episodes of this show?

As to whether Galadriel would seek revenge, if you could call it that, why should that be a surprise given the history of the Noldor? The entire first age is nothing but a tale of great tragedy caused by the pride of the Noldor and their decision to rebel against the Valar so that they could pursue revenge against Morgoth. Morgoth successfully corrupted the hearts of the Noldor and revenge was the ultimate driver of many of the major events of the first age.

And Galadriel was as strong willed as the rest of the Noldor. Tolkien also wrote that she was unwilling to leave while Sauron remained undefeated, which is really her motivation here and not simply hunting orcs. She was also the only one to suspect a singular force was behind the stirrings of evil in the early second age, recognizing that long before anyone else. While the show may have changed some specific facts of her story, overall, her characterization has been pretty consistent with Tolkien’s writings. As long as they adhere to the spirit of Tolkien’s writings, I have no issue if they need to make some changes in order to adapt the story to the screen.

I’m also not sure why Elrond’s exclusion from a meeting of elf lords would be surprising to you either. Elrond started out as a lore master and Gil-Galad’s herald. He wasn’t given lordship over his own lands until after he founded Rivendell and was given one of the three elven rings by Gil-Galad. At that point, Gil-Galad appointed Elrond vice-regent of Eriador, making him a lord for the first time. That didn’t occur until after all the rings were forged and Sauron had laid waste to Eregion, but I’m not really sure why you think Elrond’s exclusion is a major problem anyway.

Perhaps the bigger issue here is that you aren’t as familiar with Tolkien’s writings as you seem to think you are.
Well played. You know the lore better than I and are willing to let this farce do whatever it needs to do to justify plot. I will add that I know spoilers for the whole season and the first 2 episodes are accurate. To me... it gets worse. I will admit that maybe I know enough to be mad but not enough to realize how smart the writers are. I will just ask one question.... Would Galadriel have a negative reaction upon meeting Sauron in the next few episodes or nor?
 
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Well played. You know the lore better than I and are willing to let this farce do whatever it needs to do to justify plot. I will add that I know spoilers for the whole season and the first 2 episodes are accurate. To me... it gets worse. I will admit that maybe I know enough to be mad but not enough to realize how smart the writers are. I will just ask one question.... Would Galadriel have a negative reaction upon meeting Sauron in the next few episodes or nor?
I have no idea what her initial reaction would be and Tolkien never wrote of their first meeting.

The most detailed thing I recall Tolkien writing was only a very brief outline that was included in Unfinished Tales which briefly spoke about Galadriel and Sauron. All he wrote was that Galadriel scorned Sauron (then disguised as Annatar), yet permitted him to remain in Ergeion. We don’t know if she directed scorn towards him from the first meeting or if that developed as she was able to observe more of him.

One could assume that meant she grew suspicious of him over time but wasn’t fully aware of who he was, and that’s why she was willing to allow him to stay. In that account, Sauron’s continued presence allowed him to convince the elven smiths to revolt against Galadriel and Celeborn and make Celebrimbor lord of Eregion.

But if Christopher Tolkien couldn’t definitively provide more detail on Galadriel and Sauron’s first meeting, then I certainly can’t. All I can do is simply watch what Amazon does and come to my own conclusion as to whether I believe it honors Tolkien’s overall intent.
 
I have no idea what her initial reaction would be and Tolkien never wrote of their first meeting.

The most detailed thing I recall Tolkien writing was only a very brief outline that was included in Unfinished Tales which briefly spoke about Galadriel and Sauron. All he wrote was that Galadriel scorned Sauron (then disguised as Annatar), yet permitted him to remain in Ergeion. We don’t know if she directed scorn towards him from the first meeting or if that developed as she was able to observe more of him.

One could assume that meant she grew suspicious of him over time but wasn’t fully aware of who he was, and that’s why she was willing to allow him to stay. In that account, Sauron’s continued presence allowed him to convince the elven smiths to revolt against Galadriel and Celeborn and make Celebrimbor lord of Eregion.

But if Christopher Tolkien couldn’t definitively provide more detail on Galadriel and Sauron’s first meeting, then I certainly can’t. All I can do is simply watch what Amazon does and come to my own conclusion as to whether I believe it honors Tolkien’s overall intent.
Would Galadriel feel weird around the most evil person on the world? It seems like she would be worriend about a evil person..
I have no idea what her initial reaction would be and Tolkien never wrote of their first meeting.

The most detailed thing I recall Tolkien writing was only a very brief outline that was included in Unfinished Tales which briefly spoke about Galadriel and Sauron. All he wrote was that Galadriel scorned Sauron (then disguised as Annatar), yet permitted him to remain in Ergeion. We don’t know if she directed scorn towards him from the first meeting or if that developed as she was able to observe more of him.

One could assume that meant she grew suspicious of him over time but wasn’t fully aware of who he was, and that’s why she was willing to allow him to stay. In that account, Sauron’s continued presence allowed him to convince the elven smiths to revolt against Galadriel and Celeborn and make Celebrimbor lord of Eregion.

But if Christopher Tolkien couldn’t definitively provide more detail on Galadriel and Sauron’s first meeting, then I certainly can’t. All I can do is simply watch what Amazon does and come to my own conclusion as to whether I believe it honors Tolkien’s overall intent.
So you admit this is totally made up fan fiction..
 
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Would Galadriel feel weird around the most evil person on the world? It seems like she would be worriend about a evil person..

So you admit this is totally made up fan fiction..
As I stated, I have no idea if Galadriel would feel weird around Sauron during her first encounters with him. I can only go by what Tolkien himself wrote.

Despite their combined wisdom, Gil-Galad and Elrond were initially unable to discern that Annatar was actually Sauron, but they were at least suspicious enough to ban him from entering Lindon.

Galadriel on the other hand, permitted Sauron to enter Eregion and to linger there for decades. That indicates to me that it is entirely plausible that she did not at first perceive Sauron’s threat, and that she only grew suspicious of him over time. This scenario also seems plausible to me given that one of Sauron’s greatest powers was his ability to change forms and deceive others.

So again, I don’t know how Galadriel would feel around Sauron initially. But if Amazon’s show depicts Galadriel as initially being fine around a disguised Sauron, I don’t see how that goes against Tolkien’s writings.
 
I am well aware of that and if that is the route they were going for they did a terrible job of portraying any divine influence. Even a subtle nod would have sufficed. The real problem, given who Galadriel is, she should never have been put in that position in the first place.
Agree that they did a terrible job; which is also assuming that’s even what the writers intended which may or may not be the case.

I will say that even if they did include a subtle nod to Ulmo, it’s still bad writing for her to get saved by castaways in spite of the fact that you could argue that these types of events fit plausibly within Tolkien’s world.

Regardless of whether Ulmo intervened, the arrival of the castaways is still just a deus ex machina that wasn’t sufficiently set up by the plot. To me, it felt like a cheap way for the writers to move the plot forward after writing themselves into a corner.

While I enjoyed the second episode and thought it was much better than the first, the Galadriel scenes were the ones I probably enjoyed the least.

In terms of your point about Galadriel should never be in that position in the first place, I’m not entirely sure what you mean by that.
 
I have not read much beyond the LOTR and the Hobbit, but the friendship between Durin and Elrond seemed a bit unlikely. Elrond seemed wary of dwarves, but certainly not unwilling to engage in a trade relationship. A close buddy friendship? Not so sure. But, maybe I am thinking more of my impression from the movie than the books. That said, I thought the dwarf scenes in episode 2 were really entertaining.
 
-internal logic in regards to an IMMORTAL being's swimming capabilities? LMAO.

^suspend belief and enjoy.
After reading these comments I am glad I have never read the books. Apparently it imparts a knowledge into the reader that makes the movies and this series unbelievable and unwatchable. I am perfectly content to just watch and enjoy them all without overthinking every aspect of it.
 
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After reading these comments I am glad I have never read the books. Apparently it imparts a knowledge in to the reader that makes the movies and this series unbelievable and unwatchable. I am perfectly content to just watch and enjoy them all without overthinking every aspect of it.
Smart move.
 
I have not read much beyond the LOTR and the Hobbit, but the friendship between Durin and Elrond seemed a bit unlikely. Elrond seemed wary of dwarves, but certainly not unwilling to engage in a trade relationship. A close buddy friendship? Not so sure. But, maybe I am thinking more of my impression from the movie than the books. That said, I thought the dwarf scenes in episode 2 were really entertaining.
Yeah, I thought the dwarves were the best part of the episode.
 
In terms of your point about Galadriel should never be in that position in the first place, I’m not entirely sure what you mean by that.
She is elf royalty. Even if you don't go by the book where she is married and ruling a land by now, the fact that she was "forced" to go back to Valinor is preposterous simply by the fact of her status.
 
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