Riley Gaines / Joe Rogan

[Caveman Catfan]

This is something that is not well studied because the population of study participants couldn't really be too large, but there are studies. Neither side of the argument will really like the results because they're incredibly nuanced.

The only thing you can really say with certainty is people who think a transgender woman (someone born male) definitely has an advantage over cisgender women are wrong. People who say a transgender woman definitely does not have an advantage over cisgender women are also wrong. 99.999% of the people arguing on either side of this argument isn't knowledgeable enough on the topic to be so certain in their opinion. That includes the politicians on both sides of the aisle.

The data shows it all depends on what type of athleticism we're talking about and how long after transition that athleticism is being assessed.

Here is one of the few comprehensive studies, but it really only looks at pushups, pull ups, and 1.5 mile running times. After two years of hormone treatment there is zero statistical significance between the 1.5 mile times of transgender women when compared to cisgender women. After four years there was zero statistical significance in the maximum number of pushups and a very slight difference in the maximum number of pull ups.

A single study does not prove anything. It's an area that requires a lot more research but unfortunately that research is hard to come by.

Bottom line, the people who say "Obviously a man [referring to a transgender women] would have an advantage over women" are wrong. The people who say "There are obviously no differences between the two" are also wrong.

The comment was about trans women who never experienced a biological puberty.

We don’t need a great scientific study to know that bone density, lung volumes, size, and muscle development are distinct between men and women. And, the anecdotal evidence in competition is dramatic. For example, Lia went from about 400 ranked in men to the top of women swimming. Could Lia maintain that status with years of treatments, rather than the short duration required at the time for competition? Don’t know.

But records falling in women’s sports by self-identifying men are real evidence. Not just a coincidence.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I think you're in the thread, bub. Also, you're the king of the strawmen in these arguments. Where did I type that "Riley worked her ass of to be a top tier swimmer so that she could fulfill her political ambitions." That's not what I said. I said she's a political opportunist with political ambitions. Whether or not the broad is good at backstroke isn't relevant.

More suspicions, PLEASE!

You doubt her authenticity on a story because you doubt her motives for bringing this issue on an event that actually happened to her.

Could “suspicions” be another word for you being biased?

BTW, to state the obvious, the quoted comment was an extension of your suspicion and how events must have aligned perfectly for Riley for you to be correct. 😂

 

[KAB Cats]

More suspicions, PLEASE!

You doubt her authenticity on a story because you doubt her motives for bringing this issue on an event that actually happened to her.

Could “suspicions” be another word for you being biased?

BTW, to state the obvious, the quoted comment was an extension of your suspicion and how events must have aligned perfectly for Riley for you to be correct. 😂

You're jumping around now. Here's the pattern.

"Intentionally misstate opposing viewpoint"
"Argue that correction of intentionally misstated viewpoint is wrong"
"Make another assertion"

"Repeat"

To answer your question, no, suspicion does not mean bias. In this case, Riley Gaines has made it clear that she is biased by denouncing the collective "left". Whether or not you are left wing or right wing does not exclude the rational conclusion that Riley Gaines has a greater agenda than trans swimmers in sports. In fact, she states it outright on her website.

It should also be noted that Riley Gaines has a financial incentive to gain notoriety via this issue. She literally has an organization, complete with a speaker sign up form, on her website.

Perhaps you think monetary benefit isn't relevant here? Could be the case. For a $5,000 donation, you can ask her personally.

 

[Col. Angus]

I won my first round guys. Couldn’t beat an old man last week but I’m 2nd in the womens’ division as of right now.

 

[IdaCat]

This stupid social experiment is finally starting to collapse under the weight of it's own destructive results. How long before the gaslighting demo☭rats claim they had nothing to do with it?

 

[Caveman Catfan]

You're jumping around now. Here's the pattern.

"Intentionally misstate opposing viewpoint"
"Argue that correction of intentionally misstated viewpoint is wrong"
"Make another assertion"

"Repeat"

To answer your question, no, suspicion does not mean bias. In this case, Riley Gaines has made it clear that she is biased by denouncing the collective "left". Whether or not you are left wing or right wing does not exclude the rational conclusion that Riley Gaines has a greater agenda than trans swimmers in sports. In fact, she states it outright on her website.

It should also be noted that Riley Gaines has a financial incentive to gain notoriety via this issue. She literally has an organization, complete with a speaker sign up form, on her website.

Perhaps you think monetary benefit isn't relevant here? Could be the case. For a $5,000 donation, you can ask her personally.

🤦‍♂️

I know your “unbiased” perspective 😝 is that she should lie down and just take this. But, to be a difference maker, which many women want her and others to be on this subject, it is reasonable she (1) speak about it as much as she can (because people like you just want the status quo and for her to go away with no change) and (2) that costs money.

Fix the problem and her platform dissolves.

 

[KAB Cats]

🤦‍♂️

I know your “unbiased” perspective 😝 is that she should lie down and just take this. But, to be a difference maker, which many women want her and others to be on this subject, it is reasonable she (1) speak about it as much as she can (because people like you just want the status quo and for her to go away with no change) and (2) that costs money.

Fix the problem and her platform dissolves.

Yea but we were talking about why I was skeptical of some of her claims

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Yea but we were talking about why I was skeptical of some of her claims

You say your skepticism is warranted, because she has to have an income for her mission and she wants to take her message to more and more people.

There is nothing about what you have said that warrants a reason to doubt her veracity.

You are skeptical, because you don’t like her message. All you have done in this thread is complain about her and her message.

 

[IdaCat]

I never would have guessed that woke Europe would be the first to show a modicum of rational sense and basic human decency about this trans craze.

It's no wonder nobody in their right mind trusts our institutions anymore. Medical included. They're all filled with radical leftist activists.

Whoever in their life thought we'd be arguing from a defensive position about such obvious idiocy?

 

[KAB Cats]

You say your skepticism is warranted, because she has to have an income for her mission and she wants to take her message to more and more people.

There is nothing about what you have said that warrants a reason to doubt her veracity.

You are skeptical, because you don’t like her message. All you have done in this thread is complain about her and her message.

Ok

 

[IdaCat]

 

[IdaCat]

Another UK athlete in the fight for women's rights.

 

[phunterd]

Can we step back for a minute and realize how crazy it is that ~30% of the country has been brainwashed into thinking a man can become a woman?

Still looking for a definition of what a man is, btw. If anyone on the left wants to step up and attempt this, I would appreciate it.

 

[Col. Angus]

Can we step back for a minute and realize how crazy it is that ~30% of the country has been brainwashed into thinking a man can become a woman?

It’s ****in incredible to me. Total lunacy. Tell anybody this shit would be happening 50 years later in the 1970s and they would’ve laughed their goddam asses off thinkin it was a joke.

Slippery slopes, man. Start allowing enough shit, everybody expects their dumb shit to fly and become normal.

It’s ok to be EXTREMELY abnormal. It really is. Just understand that, accept it, and don’t try to shove the shit in faces of everybody else that’s normal.

The movie Idiocracy is unfolding in real life.

 

[IdaCat]

 

[UK82]

9 pages. Good God.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

View embedded media

3 UK athletes are plaintiffs.

Female Athletes File Lawsuit Against the NCAA

In a landmark move, sixteen female athletes have united to file a lawsuit against the NCAA. Contribute to the ICONS Legal Defense Fund that is supporting this case.

www.iconswomen.com

 

[KAB Cats]

It’s ****in incredible to me. Total lunacy. Tell anybody this shit would be happening 50 years later in the 1970s and they would’ve laughed their goddam asses off thinkin it was a joke.

Slippery slopes, man. Start allowing enough shit, everybody expects their dumb shit to fly and become normal.

It’s ok to be EXTREMELY abnormal. It really is. Just understand that, accept it, and don’t try to shove the shit in faces of everybody else that’s normal.

The movie Idiocracy is unfolding in real life.

Do you really think people changing their sex will be the new normal? Serious question.

 

[IdaCat]

Here's another example of the resulting idiocy of leftist policies.

 

[Col. Angus]

Do you really think people changing their sex will be the new normal? Serious question.

No. Because the vast majority is still normal in how they view it and always will be. The toothpaste ain’t goin back in the tube now though. Too much attention been given to it.

 

[KAB Cats]

I think making arguments on "normality" is deceiving. Everyone is a minority in some sense.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

The woke cult never disappoints with the cliched hyperbolic response to these issues:

“In December 2023, Olivia Hunt, a policy director for the National Center for Transgender Equality, responded to criticism of transgender athletes in sports saying that there have been ‘a long line of cynical attempts by anti-LGBTQ extremists around the country to erase transgender and nonbinary people from our communities.’”

 

[Col. Angus]

I think making arguments on "normality" is deceiving. Everyone is a minority in some sense.

Ok

 

[thabigbluenation]

Do you really think people changing their sex will be the new normal? Serious question.

Did you think gay marriage would become a new normal? I didn't really but don't care at all. Adults do what they please.

Opening one rabbit hole never ends there. Norms change gradually overtime if not impeded. This is one issue that needs to be dealt with properly by recognizing forms mental illness and not celebrating it. And the line needs to be drawn at children.

 

[KAB Cats]

Did you think gay marriage would become a new normal? I didn't really but don't care at all. Adults do what they please.

Opening one rabbit hole never ends there. Norms change gradually overtime if not impeded. This is one issue that needs to be dealt with properly by recognizing forms mental illness and not celebrating it. And the line needs to be drawn at children.

I think gay people are gay whether you like it or not. Saying "that's not normal" doesn't change that. But also, transgenderism has always been legal, whether or not men who identify as female can play sports doesn't change that or the fact they exist.

This losing battle the social conservatives have faced for decades is the same re-run over and over. Hard battle to win in a country that favors liberty.

 

[thabigbluenation]

I think gay people are gay whether you like it or not. Saying "that's not normal" doesn't change that. But also, transgenderism has always been legal, whether or not men who identify as female can play sports doesn't change that or the fact they exist.

This losing battle the social conservatives have faced for decades is the same re-run over and over. Hard battle to win in a country that favors liberty.

Damn you really are ****ing dense. Liberals see a paragraph and choose which order to read the words and then tell you what they are supposed to mean. Good God.

I never said ****ing word about gay ppl not being normal. I said did you think gay marriage would become normal. Bill and Hillary Clinton both renounced it in the 90s. So it being normal now was not something I saw. But don't care.

And what in the **** do you mean transgenderism has been legal? It has nothing to do whatsoever with being legal or illegal. It's a choice "adults" have because of our freedoms. Just keep it away from children.

Your only knowledge in history starts in 2008. Beyond that try and not hurt yourself. It's too much for you and maybe try wearing a helmet. Like always.

 

[KAB Cats]

Damn you really are ****ing dense. Liberals see a paragraph and choose which order to read the words and then tell you what they are supposed to mean. Good God.

This doesn't even make sense. Also, point of correction. You can label me whatever the **** meets your worldview, but Im actually libertarian. Thanks.

I never said ****ing word about gay ppl not being normal. I said did you think gay marriage would become normal. Bill and Hillary Clinton both renounced it in the 90s. So it being normal now was not something I saw. But don't care.

You actually did. My question was whether I thought @Col. Angus thought it'd become "normal" for people to have a sex change. Your response was that "it happened with gay people", arguing it's some type of precautionary tale.

And what in the **** do you mean transgenderism has been legal? It has nothing to do whatsoever with being legal or illegal. It's a choice "adults" have because of our freedoms. Just keep it away from children.

My point is that goofy laws and angry people taking stances about what other people can do lose in this game every time. You're indicating that trans people playing sports is like gays getting married -- indicative of a "slipper slope". Actually, you aren't "indicating" that, you outright stated it. And it's a terrible analogy for many reasons already enumerated.

Your only knowledge in history starts in 2008. Beyond that try and not hurt yourself. It's too much for you and maybe try wearing a helmet. Like always.

Oh does it? What do you think occurred in 2008? Weird ass date to pull out of thin air. Let's go with 2006...because why not?

 

[hmt5000]

Yes I have doubts about her story. Are you arguing I don’t? What are we arguing about? Also, what’s it have to do with atheism?

Regardless, you should put your outrage to good use. You can donate to Riley here:

Donate to The Riley Gaines Center

The Riley Gaines Center identifies and recruits those silenced and cancelled by the left.

rileygainescenter.org

I was making a joke. You doubt her without any proof for your doubts. She had lived her entire life to suggest she planned to compete in swimming and then practice dentistry. They the ncaa put a man in a locker room with her and let him expose himself to her and others... then she tied him in the race and they gave the medal to the dude in the womens race.... and we have to pretend the 6'4" dude is being treated bad by the 5'5" girl...

I just think you want to be seen as "open minded" to the point you ignore just common sense points of competition, fairness, and womens privacy... or hell... Maybe you think dudes should be able to shake their junk in front of a woman with no consequences... It's a weird world in '24.

 

[hmt5000]

You're jumping around now. Here's the pattern.

"Intentionally misstate opposing viewpoint"
"Argue that correction of intentionally misstated viewpoint is wrong"
"Make another assertion"

"Repeat"

To answer your question, no, suspicion does not mean bias. In this case, Riley Gaines has made it clear that she is biased by denouncing the collective "left". Whether or not you are left wing or right wing does not exclude the rational conclusion that Riley Gaines has a greater agenda than trans swimmers in sports. In fact, she states it outright on her website.

It should also be noted that Riley Gaines has a financial incentive to gain notoriety via this issue. She literally has an organization, complete with a speaker sign up form, on her website.

Perhaps you think monetary benefit isn't relevant here? Could be the case. For a $5,000 donation, you can ask her personally.

But biased you mean that she didn't think it was fair she had to compete against a biological male and have him change in her locker room... Right? Do you honestly not see the logical loop you are circling to get past the point that a dude beat a girl in a womans race and he was able to show his penis to those women and the women were threatened by the ncaa if they complained.... The fact that people are paying her to work against this is only to be expected. It's not like dentist are paupers. She comes from a good family. She could be living a really good and easy life right now if common sense hadn't become political.

 

[hmt5000]

Yea but we were talking about why I was skeptical of some of her claims

"some of her claims".... You mean like the facts of the issue that aren't in dispute?

 

[hmt5000]

View embedded media

That's the only way to fix this. Dudes like KAB will just go along to feel good about themselves at parties.

 

[hmt5000]

9 pages. Good God.

I agree. I don't know how this isn't just a simple case of support the girl against a predatory male.

 

[KAB Cats]

I was making a joke. You doubt her without any proof for your doubts. She had lived her entire life to suggest she planned to compete in swimming and then practice dentistry. They the ncaa put a man in a locker room with her and let him expose himself to her and others... then she tied him in the race and they gave the medal to the dude in the womens race.... and we have to pretend the 6'4" dude is being treated bad by the 5'5" girl...

I just think you want to be seen as "open minded" to the point you ignore just common sense points of competition, fairness, and womens privacy... or hell... Maybe you think dudes should be able to shake their junk in front of a woman with no consequences... It's a weird world in '24.

"some of her claims".... You mean like the facts of the issue that aren't in dispute?

That's the only way to fix this. Dudes like KAB will just go along to feel good about themselves at parties.

yikes. Three ****ing quotes my man back to back to back. All on the same shit already discussed.

Which post do you want me to respond to?

And **** your dumbshit claim of wanting to seem "open minded". Read this clearly. I do not give two ****s how I am perceived on a message board. If I wanted to appear a certain way and win a popularity contest, I could very easily do that in every thread.

Except that's boring as ****.

 

[hmt5000]

Do you really think people changing their sex will be the new normal? Serious question.

Do you honestly not know that sex changes have doubled every year for the last 5 years? Did you know that 90% of people suffering from gender dysphoria grow out of it by going through puberty? So every kid we transition pre puberty means they have a 90% chance of a worse outcome due to people like you.

 

[KAB Cats]

Do you honestly not know that sex changes have doubled every year for the last 5 years? Did you know that 90% of people suffering from gender dysphoria grow out of it by going through puberty? So every kid we transition pre puberty means they have a 90% chance of a worse outcome due to people like you.

That's 4..............how many more

 

[thabigbluenation]

This doesn't even make sense. Also, point of correction. You can label me whatever the **** meets your worldview, but Im actually libertarian. Thanks.


You actually did. My question was whether I thought @Col. Angus thought it'd become "normal" for people to have a sex change. Your response was that "it happened with gay people", arguing it's some type of precautionary tale.


My point is that goofy laws and angry people taking stances about what other people can do lose in this game every time. You're indicating that trans people playing sports is like gays getting married -- indicative of a "slipper slope". Actually, you aren't "indicating" that, you outright stated it. And it's a terrible analogy for many reasons already enumerated.



Oh does it? What do you think occurred in 2008? Weird ass date to pull out of thin air. Let's go with 2006...because why not?

Nah. 2008 for a reason. You are not capable of keeping up here. Keep your ideologies away from children. You, like all the liberals here, will not denounce the sexualization of children.

Someone claiming libertarian on this board is too embarrassed to reveal their own nature.

 

[KAB Cats]

Nah. 2008 for a reason. You are not capable of keeping up here. Keep your ideologies away from children. You, like all the liberals here, will not denounce the sexualization of children.

lol

Someone claiming libertarian on this board is too embarrassed to reveal their own nature.

My real nature? It's simple. Don't be a dick. Embrace free market economics. And mind your own business.

Do you know what a libertarian is?

 

[hmt5000]

yikes. Three ****ing quotes my man back to back to back. All on the same shit already discussed.

Which post do you want me to respond to?

And **** your dumbshit claim of wanting to seem "open minded". Read this clearly. I do not give two ****s how I am perceived on a message board. If I wanted to appear a certain way and win a popularity contest, I could very easily do that in every thread.

Except that's boring as ****.

Oh I agree. You're wayyyy too cool to worry about being liked in a thread. You're wayyyy too cool to care if dudes hurt women in sports...


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...school-game-injury-forfeit-Massachusetts.html

Here's one of those insane examples of me being over sensitive.

I could also go back and find the volleyball dude that broke a girls face... or the soccer dude that broke a girls leg or the HS track meet that saw 2 biological males take 1 and 2 in all the sprinting events...

I guess I'm just saying that you seem to be defending mental insanity to the point of seeming to be insane yourself. Hell... Your seem to be a UK fan. A UK athlete was screwed out of a medal because the ncaa let another school blatantly cheat. Would you be OK if Vandy was allowed to let athletes use steroids but our athletes weren't?

Just on that point you should be opposed to this.... and then you add in that they made those girls sit in a room as a dude changed clothes. I feel like you don't have a daughter or sister or wife or mother. LOL.

 

[hmt5000]

lol



My real nature? It's simple. Don't be a dick. Embrace free market economics. And mind your own business.

Do you know what a libertarian is?

Mind your own business? So you think you are entitled to go in a womens restroom and shake your peen at women and they should just "mind their own business"? LOL. You aren't a libertarian dude. You need to read more. For one thing you seem to not understand the nonaggression principle.

If you don't understand that then you aren't a libertarian.... not even a little.

 

[BigBlueDave]

that ~30% of the country has been brainwashed into thinking a man can become a woman?

…and that none of them held these positions ten years ago(**** it, five years ago).

They have evolved. They aren’t brainwashed. You just are too ignorant to see their enlightenment.

It’s hard to believe that, “Do you know any trans?” is 2020s “I have black friends” comeback.

I can see that they are upset with us and I don’t want them to have to flee to a safe space.

While I quite frankly do not give a shit about this issue

^Page 1


I don’t think I have ever witnessed someone not caring as much as you.