Riley Gaines / Joe Rogan

[BristolCat]

Also, I am not sure I want to know the man who dresses as a woman, but wants to expose his penis in the women’s locker room.

The fact that you think this is an accurate representation of the average trans person is the reason knowing a person who's trans could be helpful here. It's the entire reason this issue is so divisive and no one can make any progress discussing it. It's so incredibly ignorant and childish sounding, and I don't mean that to be insulting, I mean that you don't realize you sound that way (or don't care) because you have no exposure to this issue, no skin in the game, and all you have to go on is your limited personal life experience.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

But everything you're saying is coming from an ADMITTED position of ignorance.

Wrong and a lie.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

The fact that you think this is an accurate representation of the average trans person is the reason knowing a person who's trans could be helpful here. It's the entire reason this issue is so divisive and no one can make any progress discussing it. It's so incredibly ignorant and childish sounding, and I don't mean that to be insulting, I mean that you don't realize you sound that way (or don't care) because you have no exposure to this issue, no skin in the game, and all you have to go on is your limited personal life experience.

Who said anything about “average trans person?” Quit making things up. YOU are the ignorant and childish one. Maybe YOU don’t know the facts.

You entered a very specific discussion about something you evidently know very little

 

[BristolCat]

Who said anything about “average trans person?” Quit making things up. YOU are the ignorant and childish one. Maybe YOU don’t know the facts.

You entered a very specific discussion about something you evidently know very little

I can tell you're upset, and I'm not going to get into a personal back and forth. I would encourage you to try and get to know the type of people you have these strong opinions about and not just what you're told by media about these horror stories of people in bathrooms doing things. This is a wedge issue intended to push people out to the extremes, and the media around it reflects that. Have a good day.

 

[MegaBlue05]

Just curious. Is anyone in here friends with a trans person?

Several, including one I’ve known since first grade who I grew up playing sports with from youth through high school. Back in the day this person used to love to dress in drag for Halloween as a “joke” and pulled it off surprisingly well. This person was married to a woman at one time.

Wasn’t surprised when that person announced they would be living as a woman. Person went all the way - hormones, surgery, big fake boobs.

Still the same kind person on the inside that I’ve always known. I also am friends with two trans females and one trans male I either first met in college or used to work with when they were identifying as their biological sex.

I think it’s a weird choice and isn’t something that I am into, but trans people don’t scare me, I don’t hate them and punching down on them just seems cruel to me.

Again, don’t get the hysteria. And if we’re using the rape boogeyman, women are more likely to be raped by a straight man that identifies as a man … or a clergy member … than a trans person.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I can tell you're upset, and I'm not going to get into a personal back and forth. I would encourage you to try and get to know the type of people you have these strong opinions about and not just what you're told by media about these horror stories of people in bathrooms doing things. This is a wedge issue intended to push people out to the extremes, and the media around it reflects that. Have a good day.

I wish you a good day, as well.

I understand that you don’t feel the need to actually learn about what the women experienced with Lia Thomas and you cannot contest that Lia Thomas has an unfair biological advantage, as a man, over women.

Therefore, you would prefer to make this about something it’s not, accusing people falsely of not knowing or caring about trans people.

THAT is the extreme response to the issue. Why you feel the need to be extreme and divert the issue is something only you know.

I think people, however, would like for you to attempt to explain how knowing a trans person would in any way change the fact that adult biological male swimmers have unfair physical advantages when competing with biological females. Please enlighten us.

Because I know that the trans people I know and have contact with don’t in anyway change the science. But, maybe you can explain it to us.

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

I already answered it. Having strong feelings about a trans person's existence, identity, place in sports, or anything else would definitely benefit from having a personal experience with someone who's actually living through that. That should be pretty obvious. I've pointed out a basic factual misconception someone in here had because they didn't have the knowledge.

I have a good friend who's trans and I have learned a ton from them about what life can be like, what their personal growth has been like, what transitioning was like and how they felt along the way. I can't believe I'd have to actually explain to someone why knowing someone was important towards having an opinion on them.

I don't want to put words in his mouth, but the journey of a trans person shouldn't change whether it is appropriate for a biological male to compete in women's sports. Just because you appreciate what a person has been through doesn't change the fact that it's not fair to women to have to compete against biological men. Are you saying sympathy or empathy should be the basis for deciding this issue and not fairness to the women who want to compete against each other?

 

[Caveman Catfan]

On one side of this issue, there is science and fact. On the other side, there appears to only be virtue signalers who don’t care about the science or facts, or the women competitors. It’s as if they believe you cannot be friends with a trans person without denying science. That belief is irrational.

 

[IdaCat]

Several, including one I’ve known since first grade who I grew up playing sports with from youth through high school. Back in the day this person used to love to dress in drag for Halloween as a “joke” and pulled it off surprisingly well. This person was married to a woman at one time.

Wasn’t surprised when that person announced they would be living as a woman. Person went all the way - hormones, surgery, big fake boobs.

Still the same kind person on the inside that I’ve always known. I also am friends with two trans females and one trans male I either first met in college or used to work with when they were identifying as their biological sex.

I think it’s a weird choice and isn’t something that I am into, but trans people don’t scare me, I don’t hate them and punching down on them just seems cruel to me.

Again, don’t get the hysteria. And if we’re using the rape boogeyman, women are more likely to be raped by a straight man that identifies as a man … or a clergy member … than a trans person.

It's not as simple as that. Do you not believe the women athletes who have spoken out about their experiences in this or do you not care? I would expect someone who supports "The Party of Women" to at least know about it.

 

[Nightwish84]

Haven't seen any polling but I'd bet a majority feel biological men should compete with other biological men while biological women should compete with other biological women. Where the issue gets nasty is if you disagree with that opinion, you may be labeled as anti-trans which is unfair. However, the other side seems determined to push an actual anti-trans agenda, claiming trans individuals are choosing to be trans in an effort to rape women and brainwash the youth of America. It's like the gay panic of the 80's all over again. Most are "okay" with gays now so it's on to trans folks because drag shows are twisted and evil (when the truth is women seem to really enjoy them). Posters here will scream being trans is a mental illness...while also posting that liberalism is a mental illness. If you're going to repeat what's on political bumper stickers, then you're not a serious person and should probably be ignored on this topic. Again, like with Bill, I can't take someone seriously who claims being trans or someone of the LGBTQ community is mentally ill when he posted that an intruder should have killed the husband of a politician he's chosen to hate. We're really going to listen to that guy? The poster who wouldn't mind seeing a man violently murdered with a hammer? Yikes.

As far as Gaines goes, she's found her calling. I don't believe this issue is so widespread and rampant that she must now be the gatekeeper and hero to women's athletics. How many interviews has she done on this issue? Close to one hundred? Over one hundred? Just seems like overkill on her part. Much like Kanter, you may like the message but it shouldn't become your entire identity.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Well, the anti-trans talk is mainly from those who seem offended by people actually wanting a common sense fix to this problem. The fake narrative that people who support women athletes are somehow promoting a Trans people choose to be trans because they are pervs is the red herring.

We saw that here with the claim that I was making an “average trans” person comment when I mentioned that I thought it was sick that Lia Thomas wanted to expose his penis to women in a locker room. There is a fiction raised in an attempt to quiet the people who seek common sense science-based solutions.

And, the idea athletes like Gaines should stand down because the incidence is low, verges on misogyny. “Hey little lady, this is not that big a deal. Stop doing interviews and make me a sandwich.”

 

[Girthang]

Also, I am not sure I want to know the man who dresses as a woman, but wants to expose his penis in the women’s locker room.

If he's hanging onto his parts and getting wood in the women's locker room, he's not trans. He's not there because he thinks or believes he's a woman. He's there to exploit the feelings of stupid, weak, and misguided people and gain a competitive advantage he was unable to obtain while competing against men.

The trans people I know are not confused about how their situation and choices affect those around them and are careful, just as non-trans people should be, about what of their personal choices they share or expose people to in public and private. Especially kids.

 

[hmt5000]

Oh good god. Kind of like the Riley chick, if you stuck to fair sportsmanship on this issue you’d have more credibility. Instead you all fall back to the sexual predator take….lowest common denominator kind of stuff

The fact you can't admit that it's wrong to force female athletes to change with a biological male says tons. LOL. They threatened her or anyone else if they complained. That SHOULD be the only thing people are talking about but because you disagree with her about other stuff you are just going to skip right past something that would have seen lawsuits and firings just 5 years ago.

 

[hmt5000]

I actually am and know parents struggling with their kids and trans issues. It's why Im extremely hesitant to get on a pedestal about it. Not going to type anything I wouldn't say to their faces.

I think sports is a dicier subject. Again, it’s not one I’m passionate about either way.

More broadly, live and let live though.

Children shouldn't be sex changed before 18. If you do that to a kid you mess up their whole life. Once they miss out on puberty they are basically asexual for the rest of their life and their risk for suicide goes up 5X.

 

[hmt5000]

@Bill Cosby a trans person is not the same thing as a transvestite. This is why learning about this stuff and talking to people with these lived experiences matters. It might not change your opinion, but it might help you nuance what's true and what's false.

I hate when people generalize about people from Kentucky when they don't really know us, and I would bet most people in this thread agree on that on either side of this topic. There's always something to learn from being exposed to one another's lives.

So if the dude still has a penis and wants to dress in the womens room in front of real women... Transsexual or transvestite?

 

[hmt5000]

The fact that you think this is an accurate representation of the average trans person is the reason knowing a person who's trans could be helpful here. It's the entire reason this issue is so divisive and no one can make any progress discussing it. It's so incredibly ignorant and childish sounding, and I don't mean that to be insulting, I mean that you don't realize you sound that way (or don't care) because you have no exposure to this issue, no skin in the game, and all you have to go on is your limited personal life experience.

But what about this specific issue with this specific dude? The NCAA and certain schools threatened the female athletes if they didn't accept his participation. That should be seen as wrong to anyone that believes in rights.

For instance... did you know that Thomas had a girlfriend at the time and was having regular sex with her? I feel sorry for him because he's obviously got serious mental issues... but it's not right to punish a bunch of women because we want one dude to feel accepted in womens sports.

 

[hmt5000]

Several, including one I’ve known since first grade who I grew up playing sports with from youth through high school. Back in the day this person used to love to dress in drag for Halloween as a “joke” and pulled it off surprisingly well. This person was married to a woman at one time.

Wasn’t surprised when that person announced they would be living as a woman. Person went all the way - hormones, surgery, big fake boobs.

Still the same kind person on the inside that I’ve always known. I also am friends with two trans females and one trans male I either first met in college or used to work with when they were identifying as their biological sex.

I think it’s a weird choice and isn’t something that I am into, but trans people don’t scare me, I don’t hate them and punching down on them just seems cruel to me.

Again, don’t get the hysteria. And if we’re using the rape boogeyman, women are more likely to be raped by a straight man that identifies as a man … or a clergy member … than a trans person.

Why are there so many pregnant women in California womens prisons now?

 

[hmt5000]

Britain is following the Scadanavian countries in stopping the transitioning of children. Europe was way ahead of us on this and his has been a disaster for mental health of those transitioned. Why, with all the data they have collected, are we still going to do this?

 

[Caveman Catfan]

but it's not right to punish a bunch of women because we want one dude to feel accepted in womens sports.

The advocates for Thomas competing against women and disrobing in their presence are woke. I know gay people who (1) admit dysmorphia is a mental illness and a cultural contagion and (2) don’t think biological men should be competing against women. Only the woke advocates ignore the harm to biological women and girls.

This should not be an issue. You daughter should not have to undress in front of a man just because she is an athlete. Mental illness keeps this issue alive. Common sense needs to be restored. It is an issue, however, because there are woke crazies pretending doing what is right is somehow prejudice and not just common sense, and the cucks who want to act like it is not a big deal. The dumbassery that thinks “it does not matter because it does not happens to me” is ethically vapid.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Britain is following the Scadanavian countries in stopping the transitioning of children. Europe was way ahead of us on this and his has been a disaster for mental health of those transitioned. Why, with all the data they have collected, are we still going to do this?

It has become a huge fast growing industry in this country that has a lobbying voice. And, goofheads and evil people run around acting like the only loving thing you can do is charge the kid with hormones and blockers, and then carve up their sex parts. There is a religious fervor about this that is weird. If you want to see someone’s head uncork, tell them that they need to stop messing up kids’ futures. It gets crazy fast with some of these weirdos. Most I know are young women in their late 20s to late 30s. They meltdown over this stuff like they are the ones saving the universe.

 

[Col. Angus]

I’m gonna tuck my weiner, throw on a wig, go down to the sports complex and dominate this womens’ pickleball tournament tomorrow. Get myself a sweet B-Dubs gift card. Aint even shaving my legs. They don’t like it, I’m gonna raise hell til I get my way.

Those hoes ain’t ever gettin free chicken wings ever again long as I have anything to do with it.

 

[MatteoV25]

Not trying to start further drama, just curious how people feel about trans men competing against women considering that these men were born female.

 

[Col. Angus]

Not trying to start further drama, just curious how people feel about trans men competing against women considering that these men were born female.

Trans men as in now wants to be called woman or woman that wants to be called a man? You’ve confused me.

Born female but trans man?… I thought it was defined the other way around.

You mean a girl that’s actually a girl but with a beard that wants to compete with other girls? I’m fine with that. Would look completely stupid and everybody would laugh but at least it’s more fair assuming there’s no articficial hormone levels that would disqualify em.

I’d actually like to see that.

 

[hmt5000]

I actually am and know parents struggling with their kids and trans issues. It's why Im extremely hesitant to get on a pedestal about it. Not going to type anything I wouldn't say to their faces.

I think sports is a dicier subject. Again, it’s not one I’m passionate about either way.

More broadly, live and let live though.

And on the live and let live part... Why doesn't that apply more to Thomas than us random dudes on UK website who have never done a single thing to harm a trans person?

 

[MatteoV25]

Trans men as in now wants to be called woman or woman that wants to be called a man? You’ve confused me.

Born female but trans man?… I thought it was defined the other way around.

You mean a girl that’s actually a girl but with a beard that wants to compete with other girls? I’m fine with that. Would look completely stupid and everybody would laugh but at least it’s more fair assuming there’s no articficial hormone levels that would disqualify em.

I’d actually like to see that.

Trans man = woman transition to man
Trans woman = man transition to woman

 

[Col. Angus]

Trans man = woman transition to man
Trans woman = man transition to woman

So ya mean born a chick but with extra hair and taped up boobs that wants to compete against other chicks…

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Not trying to start further drama, just curious how people feel about trans men competing against women considering that these men were born female.

Many national sports organizations have determined that hormonal supplementation gives the participants an advantage. Assuming that is accurate and the hormones taken by the “trans man” are on the list of banned supplements, the rules should be enforced.

There are times in this world when the fair thing is fair to the whole, at the expense of the desires of the individual.

If trans is the big deal that many claim and there is no social contagion involved, as people here have contested, we will have trans leagues soon enough.

 

[MatteoV25]

Many national sports organizations have determined that hormonal supplementation gives the participants an advantage. Assuming that is accurate and the hormones taken by the “trans man” are on the list of banned supplements, the rules should be enforced.

There are times in this world when the fair thing is fair to the whole, at the expense of the desires of the individual.

If trans is the big deal that many claim and there is no social contagion involved, as people here have contested, we will have trans leagues soon enough.

I'm fully on board with trans leagues if the demand for it is there. There's a better sense of fairness while allowing everyone to compete.

The issue that comes with trans women competing is that most of them transition after puberty which gives them an inherent advantage, that's just science. If they transitioned before puberty, there's no advantage but then you'd have people screaming about minors transitioning that early (let's all attempt to avoid that debate).

I say just have everybody follow FINA's ruling on the topic and then assess the demand for creating trans leagues. Let trans athletes practice with the group that they identify with but when it comes time to actually compete, record their results in a separate category.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

If they transitioned before puberty, there's no advantage

There is no doubt that puberty is a huge advantage for men. Your comment above, however, is probably mere supposition. I suspect there is still a physical advantage to being a boy, but admit I don’t know. Not sure anyone does.

 

[cole854]

It's really pretty simple....it's biological male vs biological male and biological female vs biological female. If you're trans, then you have forfeited your rights to compete, period. Just seek help.

 

[MatteoV25]

There is no doubt that puberty is a huge advantage for men. Your comment above, however, is probably mere supposition. I suspect there is still a physical advantage to being a boy, but admit I don’t know. Not sure anyone does.

Maybe slight but most scientists agree that transitioning before puberty would stunt any advantage that would be had since puberty creates a wide difference in athletic ability between the sexes.

 

[MatteoV25]

It's really pretty simple....it's biological male vs biological male and biological female vs biological female. If you're trans, then you have forfeited your rights to compete, period. Just seek help.

You managed to contradict yourself in the span of two sentences. Are trans people competing against their biology at birth or not competing at all?

 

[cole854]

You managed to contradict yourself in the span of two sentences. Are trans people competing against their biology at birth or not competing at all?

Show me where I said trans are competing. Is "biological" too difficult a term for you?

 

[KAB Cats]

The fact you can't admit that it's wrong to force female athletes to change with a biological male says tons. LOL. They threatened her or anyone else if they complained. That SHOULD be the only thing people are talking about but because you disagree with her about other stuff you are just going to skip right past something that would have seen lawsuits and firings just 5 years ago.

Difference between me and you here is that I’m not arguing. You’re mad I’m not giving pre-programmed canned responses. As stated, I’m not typing anything that I wouldn’t say with earnest to someone’s face.

This is what I know about trans people. For whatever reasons, some humans are happier expressing a different sexual identity than they were born with. I have seen people who were very miserable quite literally become someone else and change their life.

I am in no position to judge and if someone makes a decision, that’s their decision.

Should they play sports and the transition be ignored though? I think ultimately the decision will be decided to prevent transitioned men from competing with women. Albeit, the cases where this is an actual issue are small. In many ways, it’s just a dog whistle.

I think a lot of these people are genuinely worried about the pendulum swinging far in the other direction and they are sincerely worried about what the future holds politically. Take that for what it’s worth.

 

[MatteoV25]

Show me where I said trans are competing. Is "biological" too difficult a term for you?

Well trans people have to be biologically something, you dense ass

 

[Bill Cosby]

Maybe slight but most scientists agree that transitioning before puberty would stunt any advantage that would be had since puberty creates a wide difference in athletic ability between the sexes.

First off, I’d think we’d be past the “most scientists agree” bullshit. After Covid, I don’t know how anyone would think there’s any value in a “consensus” of “scientists” who may not have ever actually studied the issue.

Second, it’s not true. There are innate differences between males and females at birth.

Third, anyone who would consider putting a mentally ill child on puberty blockers is also mentally ill and should be sent to Guantanamo.

 

[MatteoV25]

First off, I’d think we’d be past the “most scientists agree” bullshit. After Covid, I don’t know how anyone would think there’s any value in a “consensus” of “scientists” who may not have ever actually studied the issue.

So if you don't listen to scientists for scientific issues, where do you get your information? Your years of constant Covid rambling is exhausting. At some point we all have to move on with our lives

Second, it’s not true. There are innate differences between males and females at birth.

Studies show that the difference isn't as big as you think.

Third, anyone who would consider putting a mentally ill child on puberty blockers is also mentally ill and should be sent to Guantanamo.

Save that debate for the political thread, your hyperbolic phrases don't help any kind of real conversation

 

[NociHTTP]

I’m gonna tuck my weiner, throw on a wig, go down to the sports complex and dominate this womens’ pickleball tournament tomorrow. Get myself a sweet B-Dubs gift card. Aint even shaving my legs. They don’t like it, I’m gonna raise hell til I get my way.

Those hoes ain’t ever gettin free chicken wings ever again long as I have anything to do with it.

One of the most ignorant, and hateful comments I've seen on RR.

 

[NociHTTP]

First off, I’d think we’d be past the “most scientists agree” bullshit. After Covid, I don’t know how anyone would think there’s any value in a “consensus” of “scientists” who may not have ever actually studied the issue.

Second, it’s not true. There are innate differences between males and females at birth.

Third, anyone who would consider putting a mentally ill child on puberty blockers is also mentally ill and should be sent to Guantanamo.

You don't have a clue what you're blabbering on about. The "science" is there and has been for a long time. Get with the times. The brains of trans people are actually very similar to the brains of the sex they identify as. That's proven with science. The actual DSM-V states that gender identity is not a mental illness, and these are scientists and psychologists at the highest level stating this after MUCH RESEARCH. The actual process for getting a child on puberty blockers is a lengthy one composed of various stages of gatekeeping, and is supported with the observations of those who are a part of that child's life. Only dangerous people should be sent to Guantanamo, you'd fit in great there. Go educate yourself, sir, instead of compensating for your lack of maturity and goodwill on here. You'll actually have something to say.

 

[NociHTTP]

So ya mean born a chick but with extra hair and taped up boobs that wants to compete against other chicks…

You've only confirmed to everyone here that you're obtuse beyond repair. Lay off the sauce.