Reds
- Thread starter mrschwump
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I still don't expect this team is going to make any run at it this year but one thing that separates the Reds from the rest of those teams in contention right now is the consensus #1 prospect EDLC, CES, Abbott plus productive players on the IL. At any point the Reds decide, those prospects would significantly change the trajectory of this franchise. Would be hard pressed to swing a trade on the open market if you're one of those other teams when the Reds have the help waiting in Louisville. We should definitely know more with the daunting schedule ahead and yes, regardless what anyone says the Reds have exceeded my expectations for 2023 to this point. Doesn't mean the wheels won't fall off still but I've seen some glimpses of the 2009 Reds team that put together success in the 2nd half which proved to be vital for the 2010 NL Central Championship season. It's a rebuilding season still and people expecting a finished product are delusional.
Which is why I'm tempering my expectations. But you can't tell me this is not heading in the right direction minus what most people believed was their strength, starting pitching. They are seemingly battling in every at bat with the entire 25-man roster! No way would I have ever expected any hope for the near future. Seems like Nick Krall has this club way ahead of schedule to me. And as much as I hate the nepotism of the hire, David Bell has these guys in the right mindset so far as well.
I'll give you the battling part but you're right to circle back to pitching. Greene finally looked like a pitcher his last start, we'll see what he looks like tonight. Ashcraft's been meh, who knows when Lodolo will be back, Williamson's a rook, nothing in Lively/Weaver's background shows they can last thru 162 games. They'll need Abbott to be effective. That starting rotation is very brittle right now.
Weaver is about on par for his career numbers. The ERA this season 5.36 is actually about 0.5 runs worse than his overall career ERA 4.84 though it may seem he has been better than the numbers have shown so far. As far as Ben Lively, going into this season he had 26 games logged combined at the MLB level. A bit more of an unknown commodity but enjoying the ride so far. He has been a blessing to the Reds rotation over the last few weeks. Still say though when this entire rotation is healthy and the Reds call on Stoudt & Abbott, won't be room for both of those guys when Lodolo returns, Greene, Ashcraft, Williamson, Abbott for 5 and 3 additional SP with Stoudt, Weaver & Lively in the mix. At some point, will need to skip starts for Greene & Ashcraft.
Yes, all have had growing pains and I can't believe the bullpen is this good as well. A return to normal is likely but not a given.
Kirk Herbstreit Gets Into It With Baseball Writers Over Cincinnati Reds, Top Prospect Elly De La Cruz
Kirk Herbstreit, a huge Cincinnati Reds fan, got into it on Twitter with some baseball writers over the team's top prospect, Elly De La Cruz.
www.outkick.com
Stoudt has pitched much better in May with Louisville and was solid in his game vs the Marlins. Think he can help the Reds should anything happen to Weaver, Lively or Williamson. At some point, Sanmartin, Legumina, Law & Santillan will be back in the bullpen to help the Reds. Possibly Antone too but temper your expectations for Santilan & Antone being out as long as they have been.
'Joey at his finest': Joey Votto is working to make the most of his time on Reds' IL
After he gets his rehab in for the day, Joey Votto has been changing games with his advice and his mentorship.
www.cincinnati.com
What a dumb article. EDLC will not play 2B or OF. McClain is more likely to play 2B than EDLC.Kirk Herbstreit Gets Into It With Baseball Writers Over Cincinnati Reds, Top Prospect Elly De La Cruz
Kirk Herbstreit, a huge Cincinnati Reds fan, got into it on Twitter with some baseball writers over the team's top prospect, Elly De La Cruz.
Someone is going to have to go to the outfield eventually with the depth of shortstops in the minors or get traded one. You can make it work playing EDLC at 3rd until CES arrives which effects Spencer Steer at 1st and that leaves either Steer or EDLC getting moved around to another position. Likely one they have never played. Would be foolish to move India or McLain from 2B & SS with them gelling right now. If it's not broke, don't fix it. India has no errors at 2B playing with McLain and agree with Herbstreit that moving India is one of the most foolish things this franchise could do right now.
Yep. In a little more than a week or 2, a few relievers could be rejoining the Reds soon enough if these updates are accurate.
MLB Injury Report - Baseball Player Injuries
Keep up to date on MLB injuries with CBSSports.com's injury report.
www.cbssports.com
Would make a great hitting coach someday.'Joey at his finest': Joey Votto is working to make the most of his time on Reds' IL
After he gets his rehab in for the day, Joey Votto has been changing games with his advice and his mentorship.www.cincinnati.com
Just another reason Reds fans need to temper expectations. Last week or 2 has been nice but lots and lots of holes exist.
EDLC is a generational SS talent. As well as McLain has played, EDLC is better.
Still think Steer moves to LF to make way for CES. May not happen until off-season but I think it's inevitable.
Trading India for established SP makes sense although I get it may not be popular. Reds lost 100 games with him at 2B, could they win 90 without him but with a 12-15 game winning SP?
I stand by my point, McLain hasn't done anything to lose his spot nor has Jonathan India. Elly De La Cruz is athletic and versatile enough to play 2B, SS & 3B. Played 129 games at SS, 68 at 3B and 13 at 2B. The goal should be to get him up here ASAP this season and there is an open spot currently at 3B over Newman & Senzel. Long term I'm sure he is the everyday SS, don't dispute that at all but can't undermine the value of McLain while at it. A highly-skilled, talented player in his own right. I honestly do not see the Reds in 2023 trading India just to put McLain at 2B and EDLC at SS when you can have an infield with all 3.
It's ironic to hear some of you now think EDLC can only be the Reds SS and forget the position versatility when I have seen at least 4 people besides me here throughout this thread mention EDLC moving to the OF at some point since last year, talk about pissing away the AZFL not transitioning players from the infield to the outfield. Someone will be moving to the outfield if they plan on being a Red long term and currently the only ones with outfield experience at any level are McLain in College, Senzel & Barrero. There is room to play everyday Steer at 1B/DH along with CES, India at 2B, SS McLain & EDLC 3B and don't need to move an infielder until Marte, Jorge & Arroyo are ready. It's anyone's guess how this lineup is going to play out with the Reds infield depth to come.
As far as trading India, every player has their flaws but not sure how the guy playing through injuries throughout all of 2022, the unquestioned leader is the one being singled out as the one who the Reds should move on from. It doesn't make sense to me saying you can lose 100 games with India as if he was the problem and go on about acquiring an established starter for him. It would not only be an unpopular trade but set this team back. No India this year, a 100 loss season is likely happening again.
My expectations are realistic and call it as I see it. When they play well, I acknowledge it. When they play like horse shit, I criticize. Ups and downs, holes on the roster are to be expected with a rebuilding team. I don't think anyone here is suggesting this team is playoff bound or hanging a banner for being 3 games out of the NL Central through 2 months. Some of us are going to be positive about the strides of the team in a rebuilding year showing what this team is capable of plus we've started to see prospects like McLain, Williamson arrive and EDLC, CES & Abbott to come. If you have seen my posts in the past, made the point before all I want out of this season is to get the young guys up here and finish the season on a strong run with glimpses of success throughout the season as the example noted with the 2009 Reds team. They struggled but it was a year of development that paid off in 2010.
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Wouldn't fret the proposed India trade, this FO will never do it. They've proven with Senzel they'll sink before admitting a draft mistake.
People are putting unreasonable expectations on EDLC. They have to remember he is just 21 years old, he's going to be a generational talent but not sure he's ready for everyday play at the major league level right now. Last night in a Bats victory he was 0-5 with five strikeouts.
CES can be the DH and platoon at first, just get him up here and get his bat in the lineup. Hell, how would CES do in the OF? Steer is manning 1B just fine, but is a true utility player. Could India man RF? All I know is EDLC is a generational talent and needs to not be bounced around like a utility player. He needs to be the next All-Star SS or 3B, whichever they decide. When he comes up, he needs to know where he will be playing and batting every single day. Right now, Senzel and Newman are playing pretty well and if they can stay healthy and maintain their current levels of play, they might actually be pretty good trade bait to open up the roster spots. might not get a ton for either, but maybe if you throw in a Barerro or Benson you could get a middle of the rotation veteran starting Pitcher with a couple of years of control or some outfield help. Have to think Marte will be in Louisville once CES and EDLC get the call. He could get the call in 2024.
Thinking down the road to 2024 and beyond. Tell me this lineup couldn't produce runs in bulk. (the order can be different and the bottom two or three could be players not even in the organization at this point)
India - RF
McClain - 2B
EDLC - SS
CES - DH
Stephenson - C
Steer - 1B
Marte - 3B (Eventually)
Friedl - CF (Hopkins maybe?)
Fraley - LF
For those who think All this hype is for nothing, The Louisville Bats are 20-7 since May 1st. Largely because of EDLC, CES, Hopkins and surprisingly Chuckie Robinson. McClain got to play with EDLC and CES for a handful of games too, but it's no secret that the Bats Surge coincides with those guys entering the lineup. I need to get to some Bats games before those guys are gone.
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Nobody says he doesn't have work to do still, but he's batting over .290 and has an OPS of 1.016. He's setting records for exit velocity on his hits. He's had no dropoff moving from one level to the next. It's not like he's Barrero or Benson at the plate. He's what people wish Barrero would be. There are lots of great players that were prone to striking out, but you accept that if they are hitting .300 and driving in runs when they do hit.
It's not crazy to suggest Elly De La Cruz, Steer or India playing in the outfield at some point in there careers. Rather than looking at them as a utility player, look at how many players these days play both the infield & outfield. Some are All-Stars like Trevor Story SS/CF, Kris Bryant 3B/1B, over 100 starts in LF/RF, 29 games in CF. Also players like Jeff McNeil, Ketel Marte. Hell, Pete Rose played every position except catcher & SS for a generational talent if there ever was one. Innovative managers with a gumption to win will get their best players in the lineup everyday anyway possible.
I agree with others that believe India needs to be extended by Cincinnati and should he ever get traded, team control will only help his value. He's not in the same class as Senzel who never showed 1st Round potential. To my earlier point regarding losing 100 games with India, Tyler Stephenson & Luis Castillo also apart of that team as well even if they did not play as much as India played last year. Castillo led the league in losses on the 2021 team that finished above .500 but don't know a Reds fan that wanted him gone and certainly don't want Stephenson gone either.
The FO doesn't know how to fit in EDLC/CES, that's why they haven't been called up. That they pissed away last fall without playing guys like Steer/EDLC in OF in fall ball is inexcusable. This falls on the FO but the FO is at the whim of the owners who could give a shit if the Reds win or lose. Where you going to go??
A thought I have, say the Reds commit to an infield with CES, EDLC, McLain, Steer & India in some order with regular DH AB's. What happens with top prospects like Marte who you are right could easily debut in 2024 adding to this logjam. Barrero may still have enough interest in him as a young prospect with less than a full season combined that a decent run would draw interest in a trade plus Newman & Senzel playing well as of now could draw interest. I think you could get the middle of rotation veteran that you suggest in a package deal.
Lets circle back to Marte for a second. Knowing there isn't a clear opening in the infield for him today and the Reds don't necessarily have to trade any of the current ones including CES/ELDC in the picture. Do you transition Marte to an OF spot? Teams are more likely to have interest in top prospects like Marte, Arroyo, Collier, Stewart, Cabrera, Balcazar, Acosta & Jorge than average players like Senzel, Barrero & Newman. You could potentially swing a trade for a young ace with team control utilizing your assets in the farm system where you have depth and could also get a legitimate outfielder instead of relying on moving infielders. Just one thing to consider as this situation unfolds but it will be interesting to see what the Reds do.
Reds Disinclined To Trade Jonathan India
Reds second baseman Jonathan India is amidst a bounceback season. The 2021 NL Rookie of the Year had a down '22 …
www.mlbtraderumors.com
5 Reds players who had success after switching positions
The Cincinnati Reds are no strangers to moving players to different positions. Which five Reds players had success after moving to a new position?
blogredmachine.com
Apple TV game and I'm too dumb to remember how that works. Had one game last year but the White Sox game this year couldn't sign-in.
'Feeling really good,' Votto set to restart rehab assignment
CINCINNATI -- Feeling that his surgically repaired left shoulder is more physically ready than it was in his first attempt to play, Reds first baseman Joey Votto is headed back to Triple-A Louisville to begin a new rehab assignment on Saturday. Votto was with the Reds on their six-game road
www.mlb.com
Not worth the trouble. Showing video of the guest being interviewed and very little action of the game.
Figured something out to watch this time around. Williamson has had a solid game at 6 innings so far, only 2 of the 3 runs were earned. At 82 pitches, he could possibly take the mound in the 7th. India hit a 2-run home run and Senzel RBI on a FC. Said it was the 1st home run Burnes has given up in GABP. That relationship has soured and can tell he is not happy after his arbitration talks in the offseason didn't go how he hoped. If they move him at the deadline it will really open up the NL Central. Would not put it past Milwaukee making such a move after trading Hader away last year while still in contention.
Williams 6 2/3, finished with 6 K's, 3 runs, 2 ER. Time for the offense to do their job and score some runs.
Offense paltry, pitching was good enough to win, Williamson encouraging.
Would have been the perfect night for an EDLC or CES debut. Packed house against the division leader.
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