Says he's been dealing with it since 2015. Good to get it out of the way in time before ST.
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Get better Joey and be ready to bang in 2023
his terribleness the last couple months makes a lot more sense now
his terribleness the last couple months makes a lot more sense now
Tough, tough injury. Recovery isn't automatic. Glad he's not a pitcher because at his age he'd probably be done. ST is optimistic.
Lodolo looked amazing today with 7 scoreless, 5 hits and only 2 free passes against one of the better teams in the NL in GABP of all places and dropping the season ERA down to 4.12. Hope he builds on this.
I'm hopeful as that's the target/goal he stated of a 6-month rehab give or take his response which would be an early March time frame if so. The reality of the situation, being 39 next month, have to wonder how much he has left in the tank. Definitely hoping he can make a strong recovery and can challenge Bench for the Reds all-time home run record. Give us something to look forward to in these times. If he has been dealing with this since 2015 as he said in the postgame, would've been better to have dealt with at 31 than nearly 40.
I guess it'll be welcome back Colin Moran. Ugh! I'd prefer moving Farmer to 1B and calling up Steer.
Blessed that I never had a rotator cuff injury but know people who did. Some had surgery but never really recovered. These people were not pro athletes nor had access to the rehab Votto is likely to receive but that's still cautionary. Good luck to Votto.
Yeah there's no reason why Farmer shouldn't make the move to 1st and keep Solano at 3rd right now. If I never see Red Beard in a Cincinnati uniform again, it would be too soon. Both of my parents dealt with rotator cuff injuries and it was a struggle for my Father as it occurred much later in his 60s then. In the end, rest and retirement for him instead of a surgery like many of the athletes undergo.
I prefer they turn 3B over to Steer for these last 40 something games, DH Solano with Farmer to 1B. Hoping they look at CE-S too. Winter ball should be most revealing.
I prefer that too but I just don't think the Reds have the gall to do the right thing in a time of need and promote the prospects to accelerate the development instead of putting off the inevitable. I say a lost season right now with no expectations is a perfect time to get accustomed to the MLB Level.
They don't and there's no excuse for some of the rejects they're housing on the 40-man roster.
@mrschwump Figured you might get a kick out of 2 of the 3 names on this list.
https://blogredmachine.com/posts/re...d-be-on-roster-by-september-1-spencer-steer/2
Steer definitely but Fernando Cruz & Ricky Karcher literally limping to the finish here.
https://blogredmachine.com/posts/re...d-be-on-roster-by-september-1-spencer-steer/2
Steer definitely but Fernando Cruz & Ricky Karcher literally limping to the finish here.
Hopefully no setbacks and can now focus on getting ready for 2023. He may feel 35 or 36 compared to almost 40 if all goes right after all he has pushed through right now the last few years.
I also think the Reds should consider shutting down India down the stretch before he seriously injures himself long term or at least give him more days off. There's nothing to lose but draft position at this point.
An old article now but it really goes in depth with how much risk India is going through playing through pain.
I also think the Reds should consider shutting down India down the stretch before he seriously injures himself long term or at least give him more days off. There's nothing to lose but draft position at this point.
An old article now but it really goes in depth with how much risk India is going through playing through pain.
I say again, if Acuna, Judge, etc were in the Reds system they'd be breaking into High A about now.
Last couple of years is more like it. He says it could have happened as long ago as 2015 and gas been nagging him off and on since then. Guessing he didn’t want to have to sit out another long stretch right after his knee surgery, so he rode it out as long as he could.
I do think there is reason for some optimism that he can come back for another solid season if all goes well seeing as this time last year he was coming off a home run binge, hit 36 HRs & 99 RBIs in 2021 while receiving MVP votes. If he's not bothered by any lingering effects, I'm excited to see what he has left in the tank.
Really starting to come around on Fraley as his production extends beyond just tonight vs Pittsburgh. He was solid against the Orioles, Mets & Phillies. He can't be the Reds most productive player in the OF though. Proving to be more than just a complementary piece in the 1st trade with the Mariners hitting over .300 since coming off the IL.
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We can only hope but his track record says no. Next 40+ games will go toward telling the tale.
I actually think over the next 40 games if he's still doing this with little help around him in the lineup it's even more impressive. Fraley may have just needed to get out of Seattle and now in a park that favors LH hitters much like Naquin did with his chance here. Seeing some similarities in their career paths and even as a Mariner has made some highlight reel defensive plays. As I mentioned above, he can't be your best outfielder though I'd been fine with him alongside Winker/Castellanos last year playing like he has since coming off the IL.
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I really liked Naquan, lefty hitter had 19 HR/70 RBI last year for Reds. Nice arm, versatile. Fraley has shown no indication he'll come anywhere hear that. Fraley's a few years younger, doesn't throw as well, not as good a defensive player IMO, just don't think he'll produce much but throw him out there next 40 games, maybe he'll surprise. Do cut him a little slack because he hits lefty. Likely scenario is they try to sign a FA OF, keep Almora/Aquino, dump Senzel/Fraley and make a CF out of one of those 20 or 30 SSs they have in the system(DLC??).
Don't think that's quite fair to say he hasn't shown anywhere close to the offensive numbers. If you're going to go off just the Reds numbers alone, project it out the length of a season he's hit 5 home runs in 3 weeks, above .300 with 17 RBIs & 19 runs scored against some winning teams in the mix since coming off the IL. For simple math over a 6 month season that is 30 HRs & 102 RBIs. In no way do I think he keeps that up but the truth lies somewhere in the middle and likely closer to what Tyler gave the Reds in a full season who had a much better lineup around him in 2021. Giving us what Naquin did isn't far-fetched. He's shown the ability to make some great catches in the outfield since joining the Reds and even with the Mariners. He's been hurt the majority of the season and won't hold that against him unless this is a trend going forward.
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Re Fraley, I was basing my comments on his career numbers. Think he's hitting something like .205 for his career with a handful of HRs/RBIs. I think injuries have been a problem for him, true for this year. I hope he turns things around, heaven knows the Reds need for these moves to start working out plus he's a LSU guy, love me some LSU baseball players. He's something like 27 so if he's not at a crossroads he's getting close.
Fair point and I get being 27 has its red flags. Many could have said the same thing about Naquin after he was nontendered by Cleveland. Doubtful the Reds pursue Tyler if he had a history of production before to backup his 2021 season much like Drury in how both kind of fell in the Reds lap the past couple of seasons. There definitely was luck involved with both. Can't argue Tyler was better with Cleveland than Fraley as a Mariner but the production was way too sporadic and unreliable there. I didn't like losing him with the OF situation as it stands though he wasn't good enough to carry the Reds where they needed to get. Cheap enough, sure! That may be Fraley going forward too but can live with that if he's a 4th OF option on a solid contender or two NL All-Stars like last year's Reds with Winker/Castellanos.
I looked and I think something like 7 of their top 10 prospects are in the SS/3B category. Something has to give. It's great to have that kind of talent in the farm system again, but a little more balance please.
Here's what I would propose, this for friendly discussion: Sign Stephenson, Lodolo, and Ashcraft(Ashcraft will be #1 starter IMO) long term. Do it now, get it done. Controversial part: Package Greene, India, Senzel in trade for high grade lefty hitting RF(has to be a top notch player) plus a pen guy. I'm highly skeptical Greene can stay healthy, also skeptical he can develop secondary pitches to get thru the lineup second/third time. India's a player but holes in his game are showing. Not really impressed with his defense, struggling with bat this year, of course he's been hurt so I'll give him that. Senzel's had more than enough time to show he isn't and never will be what people want. Singles hitter with little power, maybe worst base runner at the MLB level I've ever seen, liability in CF, has a tendency to drift to ball instead of getting jump like most other MLB CFers. Often throws to wrong base or miss cutoffs.
So what do we have now? See below:
C-Stephenson(would prefer he move to 1B but he seems hell-bent on catching)
1B-C-ES(good looking prospect with pop)
2B McClain
SS-Barrero(know he's struggled but don't give up on him yet)
3B-Marte
LF-Steer
CF-DLC
RF-Whomever they can get in my super trade!
P-Ashcraft, Lodolo, Williamson, Roa, Stoudt, Boyle, Abbott, Diaz, San Martin, FAs
Anyway, that's what my 2024 and beyond Reds would look like. Probably wouldn't work but I'd much rather see something like that than what we've seen this year. I will add that I know zilch about things like arbitration, service time, etc. All that figures in of course.
So, Reds fans, what does your future Reds team look like?
Great post and I like the roster breakdown to spark a conversation to see where things might pan out going forward. Who would be some of your targets around the league for a RF? Would a Mookie Betts caliber RF be out of reach? LA isn't likely to move a center piece though it will probably have to be from some team out of contention looking to rebuild.
India would make a great piece in a trade and that's likely where it's headed in a few years anyway. In the worst case scenario Greene is an often injured pitcher, the Reds can't wait around and miss the trade window like they have on Senzel as his best value is in a utility role on a team now. Not an everyday starter nor the can't miss prospect going forward.
India needs to improve defensively at 2B and with him transitioning basically at the MLB level, only 9 games in the minors at 2B still some room to grow there. Next season will be telling for sure. It's been a rough season at the plate for him working through injuries with basically no lineup protection. An offseason to heal up should help him bounce back. The lack of hitters around him certainly does have an impact for anyone but at the same time we're seeing Fraley, Stephenson, Farmer, Drury & Solano all do well for the Reds this year in the same lineup. There is definitely merit to the lack of threats in the order but how much I don't know when others have stepped up.
I'll try to compile a list of players who can fill out the roster in the future around the 2025-26 seasons and beyond based on the Top Reds prospects who MLB.com says has an ETA of 2025. Fully expect some of these guys will still be in the minors though.
C Matheu Nelson hopefully if Stephenson has transitioned to 1st/Logan Tanner
1B CES/McGarry
2B Arroyo/McLain, definitely think India is gone
SS Marte/McLain/Barrero
3B Collier/Arroyo
LF McLain/Steer/McGarry, SS are some of the best athletes on the team, McLain may be have to transition if he stays in CIN. Also, LF is the easier of the positions to put someone over CF/RF.
CF ELDC/Barrero. Jose is known for his glove at SS but something has to give in this logjam and already played OF.
RF Steer/McGarry
DH Stephenson
It's really a toss up at SP, I do think Hunter Greene excels in the majors and with that gets traded. Nature of the beast in Cincinnati.
SP Lodolo, Ashcraft, Petty, Boyle, Williamson Expect many names like Bonnin, Roa, Abbott, Stoudt, Phillips, etc all to have their say and may be in the rotation over the 1st 5 I mentioned. Definitely won't all stay and some will go to the bullpen.
The bullpen is harder to predict. Free agents will be in the mix. Some will have to find their way to the bullpen if they want to pitch in Cincinnati. Injury risk may force some to the pen. Hoping Alexis Diaz is the closer for many years to come. A few of the guys I mentioned above might transition in a relief role.
Almost certain many of these guys are moved in a trade to clear room for positions of need otherwise there is going to be a locker room full of egos with top draft picks riding the pine that could be starting elsewhere. The list doesn't include players like Jay Allen, Hendrick or Siani among others because of this depth on the left side of the infield has thrown a wrench into it all. In all reality some of these might come back into the fold if not traded. Just looking at the system as a whole with the players now.
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I can agree on moving Senzel, but Greene, not so much. I would like to see how Greene comes out of this injury. Frankly, I'm surprised he lasted as long as he did, but they had no choice but to keep trotting him out there without skipping some starts because of the constant injuries and roster moves. Honestly though, long term, I had thought he might be better suited as a closer in the mold of Aroldis Chapman. I think that would extend his career and keep him healthier. The days of rubber armed heat throwers like Nolan Ryan or Randy Johnson are long gone. Nolan Ryan had 222 complete games in his career.
I think Barrero is just destined to be another Billy Hamilton though, at this point I think he is what he is at the plate, but if his defense is just that valuable, stick him at 7 or 8 in the lineup and deal with it I guess. I really hope when Votto and a couple of others are off the payroll it gives them some flexibility to sign more players to decent more practical deals that will keep them competitive for longer than a two year stretch.
Appreciate the great thought you put into your post, just what I was hoping for! BTW, my internet was down for 3 days due to a boo-boo made by a construction company near my home, back on track now. Anyway, I think '23 is going to be a great transition for Reds baseball, they've got to do more than becoming Louisville North. Frankly record-wise I expect '23 to be more of the same. 2024 will be when we'll see what the real future of Reds baseball looks like. Saw where Phillie broadcasters commented on the Reds dire situation, saying it'd likely be up to 5 years before the Reds were serious contenders. Ugh!! Heard comments during opening game of the Washington series that they will likely be sold during the off season and their insiders suspect the new owners will pump a lot of cash into the club. Most figure the Cubs will open up their purses too, point being the FA market will probably become even more expensive in coming years...what does that do to the Reds and their frugal approach?Great post and I like the roster breakdown to spark a conversation to see where things might pan out going forward. Who would be some of your targets around the league for a RF? Would a Mookie Betts caliber RF be out of reach? LA isn't likely to move a center piece though it will probably have to be from some team out of contention looking to rebuild.
India would make a great piece in a trade and that's likely where it's headed in a few years anyway. In the worst case scenario Greene is an often injured pitcher, the Reds can't wait around and miss the trade window like they have on Senzel as his best value is in a utility role on a team now. Not an everyday starter nor the can't miss prospect going forward.
India needs to improve defensively at 2B and with him transitioning basically at the MLB level, only 9 games in the minors at 2B still some room to grow there. Next season will be telling for sure. It's been a rough season at the plate for him working through injuries with basically no lineup protection. An offseason to heal up should help him bounce back. The lack of hitters around him certainly does have an impact for anyone but at the same time we're seeing Fraley, Stephenson, Farmer, Drury & Solano all do well for the Reds this year in the same lineup. There is definitely merit to the lack of threats in the order but how much I don't know when others have stepped up.
I'll try to compile a list of players who can fill out the roster in the future around the 2025-26 seasons and beyond based on the Top Reds prospects who MLB.com says has an ETA of 2025. Fully expect some of these guys will still be in the minors though.
C Matheu Nelson hopefully if Stephenson has transitioned to 1st/Logan Tanner
1B CES/McGarry
2B Arroyo/McLain, definitely think India is gone
SS Marte/McLain/Barrero
3B Collier/Arroyo
LF McLain/Steer/McGarry, SS are some of the best athletes on the team, McLain may be have to transition if he stays in CIN. Also, LF is the easier of the positions to put someone over CF/RF.
CF ELDC/Barrero. Jose is known for his glove at SS but something has to give in this logjam and already played OF.
RF Steer/McGarry
DH Stephenson
It's really a toss up at SP, I do think Hunter Greene excels in the majors and with that gets traded. Nature of the beast in Cincinnati.
SP Lodolo, Ashcraft, Petty, Boyle, Williamson Expect many names like Bonnin, Roa, Abbott, Stoudt, Phillips, etc all to have their say and may be in the rotation over the 1st 5 I mentioned. Definitely won't all stay and some will go to the bullpen.
The bullpen is harder to predict. Free agents will be in the mix. Some will have to find their way to the bullpen if they want to pitch in Cincinnati. Injury risk may force some to the pen. Hoping Alexis Diaz is the closer for many years to come. A few of the guys I mentioned above might transition in a relief role.
Almost certain many of these guys are moved in a trade to clear room for positions of need otherwise there is going to be a locker room full of egos with top draft picks riding the pine that could be starting elsewhere. The list doesn't include players like Jay Allen, Hendrick or Siani among others because of this depth on the left side of the infield has thrown a wrench into it all. In all reality some of these might come back into the fold if not traded. Just looking at the system as a whole with the players now.
Is it my imagination or does it seem the Reds are dealing with a lot of back issues, especially among the pitching staff? Shoulders too for that matter. Maybe it's time management took a hard look at their strength and conditioning program.
Your mention of the bullpen is spot on. I think the Reds have hopes of building their future pen around Diaz and San Martin but many of the pitchers you mentioned will likely trip thru the pen too.
You mentioned Allen/Hendrick...those two, along with Cerda, are really struggling. Hopefully the light comes on for those guys.
Thanks for the comments...more to come!
Speaking of rubber arms, think about this: From early June until the end of August, 1968, Bob Gibson pitched 11 STRAIGHT complete games of which EIGHT were shutouts!! He gave up only three earned runs in that stretch! Just amazing! Gibson's ERA in '68 was a stingy 1.12. 1968 was known the "Year of the Pitcher" in MLB. Actually the next year the mound was lowered and the balls juiced to get more offense in the game.
Tend to agree re Greene going to the pen....unless he develops his off speed pitches. But to be this young, already has had major surgery and now shoulder ills, really scares me.
I've mentioned before, decades ago the Reds had a young SS named Leo Cardenas. Doubt he weighed more than 150, NL pitchers could literally knock the bat out of his hands when he came into the league. But the guy had talent and the Reds were smart enough to put him at SS and LEAVE HIM ALONE. He became an All-Star. I hope this edition of the Reds do the same with Barrero. He's got real SS talent defensively and when he learns to lay off sliders/curveballs out of the zone he'll become a solid hitter. Hoping for the best.
Thanks for your comments, looking forward to more.
Thank you, happy that you could make sense through that grammar mess as usual by me from where I think much faster than I type.
This recent 4-game sweep by Philadelphia just shows how far this franchise is away right now from being a contender. Especially when outsiders like the Phillies broadcasters you mentioned are taking notice. It's been said a lot recently in regards to the Reds if you aren't productive hitting by AA, those are causes for concern. Many crucial draft picks struggling in the lower levels just shows it will take time for them to come around in low A Ball. Just imagine the adjustment period once they arrive in Cincinnati. Hoping things turn around soon too for those top draft picks.
I believe this season and going forward winter ball will be getting a lot more attention by Reds fans who aren't going to put up with this much longer as we're seeing division rivals like the Cubs cut dead weight, small market teams like the Nationals going up for sale and prospects reaching the MLB level early while producing all over, especially in Atlanta.
If the Reds don't spend money on any impactful free agents then all of the money off the books after 2024 needs to be used for extending the contracts of the right players this time. No more Homer Bailey contracts or Mike Moustakas who I was skeptical of before. Couldn't have seen being this awful. The Castellini/homers like Jim Day keep pushing the narrative on the rebuilding/young prospects though how can they honestly expect that message to resonate? 12 of 17 losings seasons, the turmoil before their ownership and you have prospects busting down doors to get up here and leave them in the minors. You're just going to implode the team once FA hits. When we discuss the future roster outlook, we're so accustomed to looking at it from the standpoint our stars like India will be traded.
Definitely agree with your assessment of the Reds strength and conditioning program. Like UK Basketball did, might be time to move in another direction with so much of the core of this team on the shelf. Started the year off with multiple injuries and it never let up.
I can see Jeff Hoffman being moved if he has a decent season next year. Sanmartin could fill this void in Cincinnati going forward. Much like Jeff who struggled early in his career but with time, he has value coming in long relief/spot starts. Especially while these young starters develop and pitch clunkers going through growing pains. It's ashamed the Pirates & Nats didn't come on the schedule sooner for Mike Minor earning wins and pitched his best game of the season. Some team might have gotten desperate at the deadline for a lefty 5th man/long reliever to buy the remaining portion of the contract. Hoping this lottery system for the draft will do the Reds some favors. In the past, these wins over Washington & Pittsburgh would be cutting off your nose to spite your face in terms of draft position.
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Would love nothing more than to watch Barrero become an All-Star SS as well and force everyone else to transition to another position & be the X-factor for this team which was one of my preseason predictions. Should have plenty of opportunities to come and start off 2023 fully healthy. Like how they're committing to him with Farmer at 3rd & Solano at 1st some now. Would like it more with Steer called up. Still only 191 career at-bats for Jose with the Reds. Plenty of room to grow.
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I lived near a town that had AA baseball, attended games frequently from early teens until well into adulthood. Was lucky enough to see many great players, Andruw/Chipper Jones, Frank Thomas, Carlos Delgado, Roy Halliday types when they were really young. AA baseball is fun, if you can play there you can play in MLB.
But they're not slow to promote...This bullshit is beyond ridiculous. How in the hell do they spin this?
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