Rather see Barrero at SS right now so we can see if he's going to cut it at the MLB level or move on. Keeping him in Louisville is just delaying the inevitable. Slide Farmer to 3rd if he's not traded and Solano/Drury are gone.
Reds
- Thread starter mrschwump
- Start date
Reds gonna trade their whole team to Seattle.
Let's see if they get more than a bag of chips out of Castillo.
Let's see if they get more than a bag of chips out of Castillo.
Evidently so. The team with the longest postseason drought is finally serious about winning. Long for the days of the Reds being relevant.
Have to be. Playing for an organization that in the end won't pay you and in front of a mostly empty stadium night in and out. Other than an occasional blow up from overpaid ones like Moustakas, most of these guys keep their mouth shut and say the right thing which I give them credit for. It can't be easy. Even Castellanos for the most part while in the Reds uniform saved his thoughts until after he was gone. Players on their last lifeline in the majors I'm sure savor the opportunities they wouldn't get elsewhere.
Of course with any prospect it's all potential and risk of injury along the way but on paper I think they did well. Not keen on multiple infielders unless some will move positions or trade chips down the road. Hopefully Stoudt gets those numbers down being in AA already and has had Tommy John surgery.
Just wish at least one of the guys they got for Castillo was major league ready. But of course major league ready for the reds is not the same as being ready for a lot of teams with deeper farm systems.
Yeah, me too. Now looking like the absolute drop dead earliest the Reds will contend for a playoff spot is '24 but that's going to take a lot of young guys developing early. More realistic is '25 or '26 and for us older guys that's see you in another life.
For sure. If you sell high on Drury and Solano, could bring something decent in return. It would be huge to get a veteran catcher like the one Cincinnati just ditched to work with the young pitchers and allow Votto/Stephenson can't split 1B/DH. Can always use a good arm in the bullpen.
They'll soon get Garcia back, they'll likely limp thru the rest of the season with him as backup C then try to find something in the off season. Since they got no ML ready players for Nyquan/Castillo doubtful they'll get any in remaining trades.
Doubtful yes but those are areas where the Reds need depth and fine with building for the future rather than adding dead weight. Not holding my breath on the Reds signing a solid backup in the offseason after the logic behind letting Barnhart go in the offseason and Casali the year before. The Reds still view Stephenson as the franchise catcher with the same cast of characters as his backup despite fans wanting Tyler at 1st for his future long term.
Even if they do, the Reds signed Sandy Leon this year along with all of these rejects in the system. Kept the veteran catcher Leon in Louisville the entire time before sending him to Cleveland a month ago. At the time it may have made sense for the Reds to part ways with Barnhart/Casali from their perspective. Now it's evident an experienced catcher is just as important in a rebuild to work with the young pitchers and stop the bleeding when Tyler is out. Do the Reds see that now? We'll see.
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India is on a roll right now. Even Votto showing signs of life post All-Star break. You have to acknowledge what #6 is doing playing through pain with little help around him. A true star in the making and he will be having to carry this team without much help around him. Seeing it with this current lineup in his 2nd year is encouraging. Good game pitched by Lodolo vs a .500 team.
Little help here please: What am I missing on Chattanooga 1B Alex McGarry? Maybe I'm misreading everything but what I see is the guy is 24 y/o, hitting in the .280s with 24 HR and 70 RBI but he's not listed among the Reds top prospects. What's up with this guy? Appreciate any help. TIA.
Seems even the experts are sleeping on McGarry. Legit power bat and solid overall hitter. We know the rate at which the Reds promote prospects through the pipeline despite Alex leaving Oregon State in 2020. He's lowered his strikeout rate this year in AA, can fill a void in the Reds outfield until the time comes to replace Votto depending on their direction at 1st. Would be great to see him get some run at AAA before the season is up and hopefully a shot to make the team out of ST next year or shortly after the season begins. If not, he's eligible for the Rule 5 Draft after next season. More reason to bring him along.
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It's a real head scratcher to me. Young enough, lefty bat with pop. Played for a solid college program. Good production in AA. To not be in the Reds Top 30 is baffling. Can put Siani and Roa on list that's being slow drug thru the minor system. Appreciate your response.
Can one of you two explain to me this narrative that the Reds move guys slowly through the farm system?
That's not a strong case. He debuted at 22 when he clearly had no business doing so. Played great in 85 games in the minors last year and came up for the last part of the season at 23 and once again struggled. Was certainly going to make the team out of camp this year before getting hurt. He's struggled mightily in AAA this season but I'm sure will be called up soon once the deadline passes despite poor numbers this year. I like Barrero's potential and hope he does well, but I don't see any kind of malpractice going on with him.
On the flip side, you have Hunter Greene on the big league roster this year at 22 after throwing only 179 minor league innings. Nick Lodolo was more polished than Greene since he went to TCU, but we're talking about a guy who threw less than 100 professional innings before making his debut with the big league club. De La Cruz is 20 and already in Chattanooga (something the Reds did not expect to happen this soon but he earned it) and could debut at 21 if all goes well.
Sometimes it seems Cincy is slow moving guys thru the system, especially position players. Maybe they are, maybe not. I'll cut Barrero some slack because he had a serious injury. But guys like McGarry/Siani have put up nice AA numbers, what more do they have to prove? Put them in AAA and see what you've got, may be surprised. Don't see either as MLB All-Stars but could be solid journeyman players...but we don't know unless they're moved up(can always send them back down). As for DLC, he was invited to spring training this year at age 20, Reds must've known what they have in him. Would like to see him in AFL in LF, spring '23 then on the Reds next year...as a LF or even CF.
Good points on Greene/Lodolo but those are pitchers of whom the Reds have made a huge investment. Lodolo looks solid, Greene is putting too many guys on base. Can see Ashcraft passing him if he doesn't develop at least one more pitch. But Greene is very young and is learning(I hope) that it takes more than throwing 103 to win in MLB.
When is the last time the Reds had a legit 20-year old phenom debut and stick in the majors like the Nats have had with Soto/Harper, the Angels with Trout, the Braves with Acuna & Soroka? Haven't the Reds suffered enough losing seasons (certainly more than each of these teams) that we should have had a generational talent of this caliber debut that young? The Reds farm system isn't even in the Top 10 in MLB despite all of the losing seasons with 6 of our Top 20 prospects are in A Ball already age 22 or older. The organization has been dragging their ass with some of their top prospects since day 1 of the Castellini regime. Votto should have been up in 2006 after trading Sean Casey away and was less than a week from his 24th birthday at his debut in September 2007.
If the Reds can reach for Barrero at AA, why not De La Cruz? Why not Jonathan India (24 at debut) in 2020 over Barrero? Jonathan hasn't missed a beat since his call up and imagine the spark he could have given the 2020 team. The media who cover this team say there's no reason for Jose to not be on the MLB roster if Farmer is traded. Shouldn't even be a factor as Kyle is not a core member to build around long term. It's got to be a mental mindset and complacency seeing how he tore up Louisville last year, apart of the futures game and a totally different player in 2021.
Senzel was excelling through the Reds farm system after his collegiate experience and seeing the same thing play out with Matt McLain still in AA. 23 in a matter of days so more than likely another guy 24 years old. Todd Frazier was 25 years old when he finally made his debut. We should be wanting to see the Reds develop these guys much faster than the rate we're seeing while they are in their prime. If a guy isn't producing enough to be called up, then it's a piss poor reflection on the coaching staff up the ranks on the development of these prospects. Would like to see more emphasis on fast tracking our top draft picks out of college. Doesn't have to be like Mike Leake straight from Arizona State to the Reds. It wouldn't hurt the Reds a small market team with a small window at winning to reach down more often. McLain's production is on par with other top SS prospects like Volpe/Peraza in New York.
I could name several more cases and go on this tangent for awhile but it's frustrating and just drives my damn blood pressure up. This franchise has made enough boneheaded moves over the years at the MLB level to justify screwing with the farm system.
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Ashcraft & Gutierrez seem to have similar rookie seasons numbers wise. I feel like a lot of people have wrote Vladimir off and still believe he will have something to give the Reds in the future. That's the hope at least and would be huge for the Reds if he can build off of winning 9 games in 2021.
The age when the Reds' first-round draft picks debuted since 2015:
2015: Tyler Stephenson (23)
2016: Nick Senzel (24 -- had season-ending surgery the year before his debut)
2017: Hunter Greene (22)
2018: Jonathan India (24 -- lost a full season of minors in 2020 but debuted immediately the following year)
2019: Nick Lodolo (24)
It did not take a long time for any of these guys to make the majors. India played one full season of minor league baseball before debuting. Senzel had injuries that prevented him from being up sooner. Hell, Greene debuted at 22 and that's with him losing two years to Tommy John surgery plus a pandemic.
You're going WAY back on Votto, but if we're going to do that, let's point out that Jay Bruce and Homer Bailey were both called up at 21 and Johnny Cueto was 22 when he broke camp with the 2008 Reds.
Look, the Reds deserve plenty of criticism. I'll turn 28 this month and I've never seen them win a playoff series. It's terrible how things have gone the past few decades and I'm sure it's even more frustrating for the people who saw the franchise when it was thriving.
But I don't see a blatant case that the Reds are failing to promote guys at a fast enough rate. If De La Cruz shows he can handle himself well at Chattanooga, he's got a great opportunity to debut with the club at 21 next year. Same with Marte, though he'll start in Dayton but could still move to Chattanooga before the year is over.
But I don't see a blatant case that the Reds are failing to promote guys at a fast enough rate. If De La Cruz shows he can handle himself well at Chattanooga, he's got a great opportunity to debut with the club at 21 next year. Same with Marte, though he'll start in Dayton but could still move to Chattanooga before the year is over.
Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I explained my 'narrative' as requested. The Reds are in their 12th losing season out of 17 under 1 owner. You say the Reds deserve criticism but downplay valid criticisms that are evident in the organization throughout the Castellini Era. I know the Votto example doesn't fit your narrative but it's missing my point of how far back this ownership has done this. When one of the greatest Reds of All-Time experiences this, it's a valid concern! I named an even worse example of Todd Frazier at 25 4 years later. 6 years later, Jesse Winker in his age 24 season straight out of high school. Zack Cozart age 26 season. We also named several instances of players in low A ball right now who are highly rated in the Reds pipeline 22 & above. Homer Bailey kept getting demoted to Louisville and used up all of his options. Clearly was not ready until 2010 after making his debut before Votto in 2007. A prime example of a guy who was slow to develop and even then was a solid pitcher for a handful of seasons.
Many were ready to see Senzel even before the injury of 2018 dubbed as a can't miss prospect from the start. I'll cede to Stephenson coming along slower as a catcher, Greene with his injuries and Lodolo is how you should develop a pitcher straight out of college but as a small market team the Reds need to put an emphasis on fast tracking players in their prime to maximize the short window to contend. When other organizations can have their teenage/20-year old phenoms like Soto, Harper, Trout, Acuna & Soroko and small market teams like Atlanta & Washington win a World Series. Cincinnati has done enough losing that really is frustrating why the Reds haven't done this when Elly De La Cruz is busting down doors to get to Cincinnati.
Your point on India is somewhat fair. However, if you're trying to win, there was no excuse to not reach for India and chose Barrero in 2020. With no MILB season he's sitting at an alternate site and Barrero's career going in reverse still in Louisville. Didn't need a SS that bad with Galvis starting and Farmer riding the pine. What they're doing to Jose now is just screwing with him and delaying the future. There's nothing to prove at Louisville. The Reds seem to never learn from their mistakes.
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It was great to hear The Cowboy's comments on the importance of a veteran catcher on a roster. Even if it's an aging Paul Bako late in his career, a veteran presence for a young pitching staff and Tyler's recent injuries.
Was hoping they could flip Pham for at least a decent prospect. Guess not. Hope they get something out of Drury and Mahle.
Mahle seems to be their best shot and fortunately he's pitched much better after a rough start. Tyler has another year of arbitration, UFA in 2024. Saw where Seattle is one of the teams looking at Drury. They love our Reds! Sadak and Brantley both know the Reds are in need of a veteran catcher. No matter what stage in a rebuild, an experienced catcher for stability with young pitchers is important.
In the postgame show, Nick Krall says their is a pool of players that Cincinnati has agreed upon to trade from and scout the rest of the season. The days of letting them walk for a pay day and get a compensation draft pick are over after the lockout. https://www.baseballamerica.com/sto...al-dh-and-removal-of-draft-pick-compensation/
Brantley was pretty emphatic in his comments about the Reds need for a veteran C.
Really hope Drury doesn't go to Seattle. What else do they have left to give us. we'll be picking the table scraps after the other trades we've made. Trade him to somebody who has a major league ready prospect.
How much does a rental bring that you can only really sell on 4 months on an expiring contract? It's the downside for teams like the Reds with guys like Pham, Drury & Solano. Hoping Mahle brings something of value if traded.
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From trades the last couple of days it appears that IF the Reds trade Mahle, Drury, Solano they'll get little more than a lottery ticket. ML ready player just won't happen.
Agree, it's hard to get much for a rental unless they are an established All-Star like the Yankees did for Chapman to the Cubs.
I'd hold onto Mahle before letting him go for nothing. He won't be an unrestricted free agent until 2024 like Castillo so there really isn't any incentive to trade him without a decent prospect or a MLB ready player to the team. A team in contention is unlikely to deal a major leaguer of value when looking to add. Tyler is their best shot at anything decent. I know Brandon Drury is having a hell of a year but it's a risk to sign him long term or give up a haul for him without a track record of producing like this before 2022.
May be best to hold those guys and move them in the off season. Reds are already risking becoming the Louisville Bats North as is.
2:50pm: The teams have agreed to a trade sending Mahle to the Twins, tweets Jon Heyman of the New York Post. Ted Schwerzler of TwinsDaily reports that Minnesota is sending is sending infield prospects Spencer Steer and Christian Encarnacion-Strand to the Reds, as well as lefty Steven Hajjar (Twitter link).
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