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Quit Crying about Refs!!!

Fans that blame the officials after every game are awful. I don’t really remember anything crazy awful from today’s game. A few missed calls, of course, but we can’t stop anybody on defense right now.

I mainly agree with the OP. Having said that, I thought the Georgia game was terribly officiated and directly attribute it to that loss.
This^^^. We absolutely, positively, without a shadow of a doubt did NOT lose yesterday because of officiating. Posters who whine about number of ft’s and “corrupt” refs every single game just have too blue glasses on. Why on earth would the “SEC office” or certain referees “want” UK to lose a home game to ‘Bama? Why? It makes zero sense for our section of the fanbase that have all these “conspiracy theories “ that think that’s why we “always get screwed” by the refs.
Were there a couple bad calls on UK, of course, there always are - and there were a couple bad calls against Bama.
It’s been stated enough in this thread, but I’ll reiterate - we foul this year - a LOT - because we’re not athletically matched with most SEC schools and we’re slow. When you’re trying to guard a quicker, more athletic athlete, you get out of position easily and in trying to recover, you foul.

We didn’t play near our A game yesterday, had two guys playing really banged up, and STILL took one of the top 5 teams in the country down to the wire. We have a wonderful, refreshing coach whose entire heart and soul is invested in our program. The future is extremely bright! I get being disappointed on a tough loss, but get over it and move on. Quit whining about “corrupt refs” every - single - frickin - game when we lose.
 
This^^^. We absolutely, positively, without a shadow of a doubt did NOT lose yesterday because of officiating. Posters who whine about number of ft’s and “corrupt” refs every single game just have too blue glasses on. Why on earth would the “SEC office” or certain referees “want” UK to lose a home game to ‘Bama? Why? It makes zero sense for our section of the fanbase that have all these “conspiracy theories “ that think that’s why we “always get screwed” by the refs.
Were there a couple bad calls on UK, of course, there always are - and there were a couple bad calls against Bama.
It’s been stated enough in this thread, but I’ll reiterate - we foul this year - a LOT - because we’re not athletically matched with most SEC schools and we’re slow. When you’re trying to guard a quicker, more athletic athlete, you get out of position easily and in trying to recover, you foul.

We didn’t play near our A game yesterday, had two guys playing really banged up, and STILL took one of the top 5 teams in the country down to the wire. We have a wonderful, refreshing coach whose entire heart and soul is invested in our program. The future is extremely bright! I get being disappointed on a tough loss, but get over it and move on. Quit whining about “corrupt refs” every - single - frickin - game when we lose.
Even a false statement can be reiterated. Doesn't make it so. Two things: (1) I disagree that "athleticism" is the be all end all of this issue. I agree that we are not an elite athletic shot blocking team, but that is not all there is to playing defense. What type of "athlete" is needed to defend Grant Nelson when he drives and takes his off hand forearm and pushes the defender in the chest to not only score, but get a foul called on the defender? Happened more than once. What kind of "athleticism" is needed when a three-point shooter flops without being touched and gets the official to call a foul and be rewarded three free throws?

(2) You can have your opinion and I can have mine, but this overstated "lack of athleticism" is nonsense to me and the stats back my opinion up more than those who say otherwise. Your statement that "we foul this year-a LOT" is based on what?
Certainly not actual statistics. UK opponents have shot 329 foul shots for the year. Auburn and Alabama who I would venture to guess that you and most others would say are the most athletic teams in the SEC, have allowed their opponents to shoot 352 and 374 freethrows this season. Please explain to me how these two "super athletic" teams have sent their opponents to the foul line more than UK if your reasoning is correct.

One thing CP and Cal have in common is stressing playing defense without fouling. IMO this has hurt us the last 5-7 years in the SEC where these people think basketball is indoor football played with a round ball. I would not mind if you called me a "conspiracy theorist" since they are true more often than not. I do believe that UK gets the short end of the stick when it comes to officiating in the SEC. One would think that it would be the opposite since UK has carried the torch for SEC basketball for the entirety of basketball history. Maybe the unequaled dominance has created resentment or jealousy or the SEC thinks UK will always be UK so let's worry more about making the other teams resume better.
Again, this paragraph is thoughts and/or opinion, but the one before with actual statistics is factual. We are both entitled to different opinions, but the facts should be the same.

BTW, I haven't posted any previous comments about the officiating yesterday.
 
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It’s not the number of fouls, but when they were called. The 10-2 number in the first few minutes changed the complexity of our team. Yes, the refs leveled them out somewhat later, but the damage was done.
Coach has made multiple comments that we have to learn to play how the refs are calling the game, but a foul should consistently be a foul.
Finally, how many SEC games do you see the home teams called for more fouls than the visiting team?

GO CATS
We have a very slow defense. When you play teams with some quickness and they go to the rim about every trip down the court, fouls will pile up. With as much tape that all teams have, it is now how every team we play will attack us. If a team regardless if it is in Rupp or their place, driving to ball to the rack is going to be their game plan. Wait until Auburn comes to Rupp, they will collect fouls with their quickness. A slow defense ends up reaching or grabbing, thus a foulis called. Then our fans will scream, it is the crooked refs. Pope is going to have to play little match up zone to slow the drives to the rim. Going forward we need to recruit quicker kids with more length.
With what I just wrote, I am a strong liver in Pope, especially the team he assembled for this year in a very very short timeframe. He has done an A+ jobs so far this year. We are blessed to have him.
 
I was at the game. The first half, we absolutely had a favorable whistle. I wouldnt go as far as to say friendly, but definitely favorable. In the second half, everything changed, Alabama was getting the "friendly" whistle. We would drive, with contact, no whistle; Alabama would drive and we would get called repeatedly. There were also travelling calls that weren't called consistently.

I know we have to play well enough to beat the refs, but to insinuate that the way they call they game does not have an impact is naive. It can effect the way we play defense and take us out of our offensive flow. I'm looking forward to the day AI takes over officiating and we can be rid of these incompetent/corrupt referees.
 
We have a very slow defense. When you play teams with some quickness and they go to the rim about every trip down the court, fouls will pile up. With as much tape that all teams have, it is now how every team we play will attack us. If a team regardless if it is in Rupp or their place, driving to ball to the rack is going to be their game plan. Wait until Auburn comes to Rupp, they will collect fouls with their quickness. A slow defense ends up reaching or grabbing, thus a foulis called. Then our fans will scream, it is the crooked refs. Pope is going to have to play little match up zone to slow the drives to the rim. Going forward we need to recruit quicker kids with more length.
With what I just wrote, I am a strong liver in Pope, especially the team he assembled for this year in a very very short timeframe. He has done an A+ jobs so far this year. We are blessed to have him.
I'd to see more full court press and trapping. If we cant play half court defense very well and get into foul trouble, then change it up. The unforgettables were not quick of foot, but played tenacious trapping defense. Why not try it more, what could it hurt.
 
8/9 fouls in the first 7 or so minutes of the second half is beyond absurd IMO., especially at home. Alabama was in the bonus from that point forward. Then, they started calling some phantom calls on Alabama to “even” the fouls up some. Lulz it’s wild.
It put us in a very difficult position I agree, but go back and watch the replay. I did this morning and every single one of our first 7 fouls were absolutely fouls. There were even two that are called 99% of the time that were NOT called on us in that 1st 6 minutes. Oweh’s 1st basket in the second half is almost always called a charge as he put his shoulder into the defender quite a bit. The defender was very close to the block/charge circle so it could’ve went either way. Sears drove into the lane and Butler fouled him as he went up and made a 12’ jumper. It wasn’t called.

We were out of position on about all 7 of these fouls and were reaching/grabbing to recover. Granted, there were 2, maybe 3 fouls that could’ve been called on ‘Bama that weren’t, so it could’ve been 7-3 instead of 7-1 - but our fouls were fouls…..all of them.

Refs and UK getting screwed is always a topic for debate after a loss, especially when it’s down to the last few minutes and it’s a close game and like JRCAT14 said in his response to my earlier post, we all have a right to our opinion and that’s certainly correct. My opinion just happens to be we don’t “get screwed” nearly as often as a lot of our fans think (Georgia game was the exception - we were screwed in that game).
 
It put us in a very difficult position I agree, but go back and watch the replay. I did this morning and every single one of our first 7 fouls were absolutely fouls. There were even two that are called 99% of the time that were NOT called on us in that 1st 6 minutes. Oweh’s 1st basket in the second half is almost always called a charge as he put his shoulder into the defender quite a bit. The defender was very close to the block/charge circle so it could’ve went either way. Sears drove into the lane and Butler fouled him as he went up and made a 12’ jumper. It wasn’t called.

We were out of position on about all 7 of these fouls and were reaching/grabbing to recover. Granted, there were 2, maybe 3 fouls that could’ve been called on ‘Bama that weren’t, so it could’ve been 7-3 instead of 7-1 - but our fouls were fouls…..all of them.

Refs and UK getting screwed is always a topic for debate after a loss, especially when it’s down to the last few minutes and it’s a close game and like JRCAT14 said in his response to my earlier post, we all have a right to our opinion and that’s certainly correct. My opinion just happens to be we don’t “get screwed” nearly as often as a lot of our fans think (Georgia game was the exception - we were screwed in that game).
I would need to go back and watch again. I missed bits and pieces of the game. I do know that Williams was clobbered 2/3 times in a row in first half and no whistle. Also, that block call on us in second half when dude ran over our defender by lowering his shoulder, was atrocious. Not to mention, that BS foul on that 3. That was a KILLER! We had no shot after that foul on the 3. Weak ass shit.
 
He’s right though. It’s ok to call out the officials from time to time. But you can set your watch by a lot of our fans. We lose- we cry.

But it’s just how people are. Whether you’re at work, at home, or watching a ballgame, doesn’t matter. Primarily there are two types of people. Those who take ownership and those who make excuses. Which one of these types of people sound more pathetic?
I think there has been a lot things the team
Could have done differently in the last few games. I truely believe had they done a few things differently we would have won. However, the trend for referees this year is going g to get someone hurt. The amount of shoving down, holding, phantom calls etc is pure bs. The fact the coach and a player have publicly called it out is a key sign how bs it Is. could they have won reguardless, yeah but it isn’t the job of a ref to make a game last 2.5 hr to compensate for small dick syndrome or ensure Vegas doesn’t lose money.

Refs 💯 affected the flow of the game and the outcome and that should never ever happen.
 
Half this board is nothing but crying about refs. Are there bad calls? Sure, but most fouls are because the defense is atrocious and can’t stay in front of their man and try to recover late. It’s weak to blame refs for a loss….blame not coming up with two rebounds when it was tied then a one possession game that Bama got 6 second chance points on
Sorry it's just not normal to play similar teams, outside mostly and have them shoot 14 more FTs in your own building, Kansas would shit themselves.
Idiot Facepalm GIF
 
There are a few views on officiating...

From spectator standpoint, the refs are out of control. Way too many reviews. Calls are inconsistent.

From a stylistic standpoint, our FT disparity can be attribute as much to our perimeter style as anything else. By nature, we are going to get less fouls, and a team going at the basket is going to get more.

From a athlete / team standpoint, I think there is too much looking at the refs and acting like everything is a bad call. I don't think it's necessarily a productive mindset for an athlete to believe the game is unfair. You have to take responsibility for your actions. Turning to refs and yelling "ME?!?!?" typically is never going to go your way. I think the team needs to take more ownership of that.
 
There are a few views on officiating...

From spectator standpoint, the refs are out of control. Way too many reviews. Calls are inconsistent.

From a stylistic standpoint, our FT disparity can be attribute as much to our perimeter style as anything else. By nature, we are going to get less fouls, and a team going at the basket is going to get more.

From a athlete / team standpoint, I think there is too much looking at the refs and acting like everything is a bad call. I don't think it's necessarily a productive mindset for an athlete to believe the game is unfair. You have to take responsibility for your actions. Turning to refs and yelling "ME?!?!?" typically is never going to go your way. I think the team needs to take more ownership of that.
I think there is the reaction to the call (almost always the incredulous) and the knowing whether or not you fouled. If you are in the game you know if it is being called the same on both ends.
 
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I think there is the reaction to the call (almost always the incredulous) and the knowing whether or not you fouled. If you are in the game you know if it is being called the same on both ends.

That very well might be true but sometimes a ref sees contact or what looks like contact, blows the whistle and if a player turns to the ref and yells something… ref almost always blows whistle on that player. As opposed to turning around, being nonchalant and acting like the other guy is guilty
 
It's the consistency. Kentucky was called for seven fouls in 5:30 min. Yes, most of those are on our weak Def, but some of them are ticky tack. If you're going to call ticky tacks, fine. But it has to be called both ways. Just like a baseball strike zone. Both sides of this debate are correct. Our Def was bad, and we brought it on ourselves. BUT, that doesn't mean there isn't a discrepancy on how fouls are being called on both ends. Both of these can be true, and both need to be fixed.
 
It's the consistency. Kentucky was called for seven fouls in 5:30 min. Yes, most of those are on our weak Def, but some of them are ticky tack. If you're going to call ticky tacks, fine. But it has to be called both ways. Just like a baseball strike zone. Both sides of this debate are correct. Our Def was bad, and we brought it on ourselves. BUT, that doesn't mean there isn't a discrepancy on how fouls are being called on both ends. Both of these can be true, and both need to be fixed.

There was a point in this game shortly after that where the fouls piled up on the other side as well tho. The total difference is fouls was only 25-21 and we did foul a bit at the end to try and come back. Obviously when you call a ton of fouls at the beginning of the 2nd half, that affects things greatly. Pope even mentioned in the post game about having to go to odd lineups to compensate.

I guess my thing is let's say it's a mixture of both right.......bad defense and bad refs. As a team, you can only control one of those things.

The SEC for some reason or another has always been a conference that called a ton of fouls. Looking at the conference ranks on Kenpom, it's amazing how often we are 5th, 6th, 7th (and 1st among power conferences) at fouls being called. Now whether that's the nature of the teams in the conference, the refs or both, who knows.

As such I'd rather Pope take a different approach with this. You can't just go through the conference season and continue to put your opponents on the line. You have to adapt to how the game is being called. And that definitely makes it tougher for a team that already struggles to play defense. But you do what's in your control IMO. It's all you can do.
 
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Yep. I'll quit complaining about refs as much when there's some form of accountability. Bad games will happen and refs will have off nights.

What I won't sit by and be quiet about is refs blatantly missing calls, favoring one team, and Jim Bob calling a completely different game than Johnny James on different nights.

Officiating needs to be addressed, and so too does players actively flopping to draw fouls. Institute an embellishment penalty that includes free throws and a turnover and we'd see a lot more of these pansies staying upright when they come down from a shot. No more of that shooters space to land bs or whatever the hell it's called.

It was one thing when refs couldn't figure out a charge or block a few years back, but it's gotten so unwatchable between coaches begging for and getting reviews at will, flopping on threes, throwing one's head back at the slightest contact, and absolutely nothing being done to address it by any authority.
 
I'm noticing a bunch of my least favorite posters are saying the calls weren't bad.

Hilarious. There's a reason I can't stand many of these guys. Many of them loved Cal as well.
You wouldn’t say this isn’t a topic where there can be some agreement to disagree peacefully?

One side is vehement that the refs are literally out to screw Kentucky every game and if you don’t agree with that, you’re not actually a fan.

The other side is vehement that this a biased view and devalues the sport. If you don’t agree with that, you’re not actually a fan.

I’m clearly of the view that the Georgia game was a con-job and have been consistent on the matter, but I by no means see people who hold the first view as less-than. This feels a bit like burning down the entire church over a disagreement about whether or not it is permissible to play live music. I know it is rich coming from me, a very flawed individual, but I really wish matters like this could be discussed peacefully.

Or maybe this is what message boards are supposed to be…I hope not.
 
Anyone figured out why the SEC reffing is different? Pope talks like the refs are consistent. Consistent in what way? Are fouls different in the leagues? How can we adapt to the way the reffing is in the SEC? Has anyone watched some games of where Pope came from and compared the foul calls to the SEC? What makes them different? It would be great to know why the way SEC refs call games are different than other places.
 
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Everyone that says we lack athleticism , HOW THE F*** are we athletic enough to be a top 3 offense in the country then? if you arent athletic enough to defend you arent athletic enough to get good enough shots to be that good offensively.

We have good enough defense and we take the ball to the basket enough that we should not be getting f**** with the FT disparity.

also about us getting a decent whistle in the first half, that was the half where white bumpkin bama player was shoving off offensively and drawing fouls on us while doing it.

This sh*t wont change until Barnhart is gone and an AD who cares about our basketball prestige is in.
 
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Everyone that says we lack athleticism , HOW THE F*** are we athletic enough to be a top 3 offense in the country then? if you arent athletic enough to defend you arent athletic enough to get good enough shots to be that good offensively.

We have good enough defense and we take the ball to the basket enough that we should not be getting f**** with the FT disparity.

also about us getting a decent whistle in the first half, that was the half where white bumpkin bama player was shoving off offensively and drawing fouls on us while doing it.

This sh*t wont change until Barnhart is gone and an AD who cares about our basketball prestige is in.
Very good points. I would say that scoring isn’t always tied to athleticism. Luka Doncic and Steph Curry, for example, can score in their sleep but struggle to defend for reasons related to their athletic profile.
 
Anyone figured out why the SEC reffing is different? Pope talks like the refs are consistent. Consistent in what way? Are fouls different in the leagues? How can we adapt to the way the reffing is in the SEC? Has anyone watched some games of where Pope came from and compared the foul calls to the SEC? What makes them different? It would be great to know why the way SEC refs call games are different than other places.

I think some of this is a byproduct of the teams that play in it.

Right now among all conferences, we are 7th in FTA/FGA. We are by far the highest power conference as the next is the Big Ten all the way down in 15th spot.

This isn't a one year thing either.

It's actually a bit wild to look at. From 1997 to 2012, we actually were rated one of the conferences with the LEAST amount of fouls called.

Then since 2013 this has been our ranks:
16th
8th
9th
5th
2nd
4th
9th
2nd
10th
6th
6th
7th
7th

I dunno 2013 is when Missouri and Texas AM joined the SEC so lets blame them lol.
 
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I always thought maybe this was explained by refs, but refs aren't exactly tied to conferences. There's no such thing as an SEC ref. However, I would say I guess based on the location of where these refs are at, some of them might do a greater proportion of SEC games compared to others. Those refs may happen to be the ones that call more fouls.

I think it's twofold.

We might be in a conference where refs just call more fouls

But also I think there's something with the teams in this conference on the lower end. South Carolina and Georgia and teams like that over the course of this period have made a living getting to the line. It's as if they realized this was a way to equalize things against the giants of the conference.

There are certain teams in this conference that realized at one point "well we are never going to recruit like UK, UT, Auburn, Alabama etc etc. but if we just drive at will fouls will eventually pick up and that's how we level the playing field.

Just my theory on this.
 
For example you look at South Carolina under Frank Martin.

TERRIBLE shooting teams. God awful. Every single year but from 2013 to 2022 they did one thing well on offense......they got to the line.

Georgia under Mark Fox......similar story. From 2013 to 2018, every year top 50 and three of those years top 15.

Two years Vandy under Jerry Stackhouse.....top 10.
 
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I think another thing is the coaches.

Players change but coaches tend to follow similar styles with their teams. They seem to emphasis areas be it shooting, taking care of the ball, rebounding etc.

We just have a bunch of coaches that emphasis the importance of getting to the line.

I am very much a believer in drawing fouls and not committing fouls on defense are skills. Some teams do it better than others. Some players do it better than others
 
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I think another thing is the coaches.

Players change but coaches tend to follow similar styles with their teams. They seem to emphasis areas be it shooting, taking care of the ball, rebounding etc.

We just have a bunch of coaches that emphasis the importance of getting to the line.

I am very much a believer in drawing fouls and not committing fouls on defense are skills. Some teams do it better than others. Some players do it better than others
This is what Pope has been saying too. Pope believes that trying to draw fouls takes away from other offensive opportunities, which I agree with. Those bottom feeder teams are going to have a mud match because they can’t match the firepower. That might help you get an upset here or there but you really limit your offensive potential. I believe that has a lot to do with SEC teams struggling in the tournament most years, even when they have talent. Just my opinion
 
Half this board is nothing but crying about refs. Are there bad calls? Sure, but most fouls are because the defense is atrocious and can’t stay in front of their man and try to recover late. It’s weak to blame refs for a loss….blame not coming up with two rebounds when it was tied then a one possession game that Bama got 6 second chance points on
I never cry about refs BUT 2 games we've lost this season have come from glaringly lopsided officiating- GA, and AL.

Stat of the day. You'll lose 99% of games your opponent makes more free throws than you attempt.
 
I never cry about refs BUT 2 games we've lost this season have come from glaringly lopsided officiating- GA, and AL.

Stat of the day. You'll lose 99% of games your opponent makes more free throws than you attempt.
And there is a common denominator among these games in the referee Steven Anderson! Throw in last season’s Oakland game for “good” (BAD!) measure.
 
Very good points. I would say that scoring isn’t always tied to athleticism. Luka Doncic and Steph Curry, for example, can score in their sleep but struggle to defend for reasons related to their athletic profile.
probably because the NBA regular season means nothing to any of them besides putting up stats. Those 2 guys are capable of defending , they just dont put forth the effort.

Our guys are capable of playing good defense with their level of athleticism, athleticism isnt the issue... focus and choosing to use their energy on getting shots instead of staying with their man is an issue. Refs officiating time and score instead of game play (meaning having agendas) is an issue. its only gotten worse since gambling was allowed all over the US and the betting apps became popular.
 
probably because the NBA regular season means nothing to any of them besides putting up stats. Those 2 guys are capable of defending , they just dont put forth the effort.

Our guys are capable of playing good defense with their level of athleticism, athleticism isnt the issue... focus and choosing to use their energy on getting shots instead of staying with their man is an issue. Refs officiating time and score instead of game play (meaning having agendas) is an issue. its only gotten worse since gambling was allowed all over the US and the betting apps became popular.
If you think defensive limitations on guys like Curry and Doncic is due to regular season, I disagree. There is plenty of playoff film on both guys that are available. I feel like too many of us are trying to fit a 256-bit issue into an 8-bit cartridge.
 
College basketball officiating is horrible across the board. Even media talking heads are talking about it, and I've even noticed TV announcers questioning calls, which never happened before. Regardless of whether you believe it's stacked against us or not, with as bad as it is, it's impossible to know who the best team is when a game isn't called fairly and correctly. If I didn't love Pope and this team so much, I'd quit watching the sport all together.
 
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And there is a common denominator among these games in the referee Steven Anderson! Throw in last season’s Oakland game for “good” (BAD!) measure.
So Calipari got screwed out of that Oakland game? Just curious if you’re going to be consistent enough to say that…I’ll hang up and listen.
 
College basketball officiating is horrible across the board. Even media talking heads are talking about it, and I've even noticed TV announcers questioning calls, which never happened before. Regardless of whether you believe it's stacked against us or not, with as bad as it is, it's impossible to know who the best team is when a game isn't called fairly and correctly. If I didn't love Pope and this team so much, I'd quit watching the sport all together.
This is where the conversation becomes nuanced to someone like me. I think there are many of us who believe the officiating is bad. In fact, I think almost everyone tends to agree on that point. I think the issue becomes whether or not it is Kentucky being hosed every game. College officiating has gotten worse year over year imo because, just like Pope says, they don’t enforce what is already on the books. I would love a much more consistent and tight whistle, but that doesn’t seem to be in the cards, especially in the SEC.
 
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