What do you mean? Are you saying that there were not classes created for individual athletes?
Push in back doesnt matter. @5.8 Meeks committed lane violation on his free throw
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It did not use the classes for the purposes of cheating. If so, then UK is cheating right now as is every college in America.
You are either dumb or blindly loyal.
Surely you know that a school can not restrict general class enrollment only to athletes. So, it stands to reason that these bogus courses would also have "regular students".
But the amount of student-athletes in these courses way, way, way, waaaaaay exceeds normal representation. And that is because student-athletes were steered to these courses. . . .FRAUDULENT COURSES.
Seriously. . . you are embarrassing yourself trying to defend the indefensible.
No athletic department creates courses, so there can never be any athletic/academic cheating. Is this really your argument?
Bingo.
This is an academic issue, not an athletic issue. The NCAA can not exert jurisdiction where it has always said it had no jurisdiction. And that is the crux of the legal argument and why all of this is going to most likely end up in the courts with the NCAA losing.
"Outside the Lines" reported last week that McCants said his tutors wrote his term papers, he rarely went to class for about half his time at UNC and he remained able to play largely because he took bogus classes designed to keep athletes academically eligible.
Could you touch base on this?
Really?
Show me a report in which UK student athletes are attending fraudulent courses, and comprise nearly 50% of the enrollment.
I'll wait. . . . .
It doesn't speak volumes you moron. It says that he doesn't want to be painted as a narc. Youre an idiot. The fact that you're here trying to convince us of anything only confirms that.
"I swear officer, I did not rob that bank for the purpose of breaking law. I did it for my personal gain.". <big difference>
I am saying that these classes were created for all students and that all students had the opportunity to take them. I am also saying that independent study classes also exist at all colleges and that the governing body for this is not the NCAA.
There is no evidence that these classes were created just to help student athletes. None.
Wrong again sweetie. There are emails proving that classes were in fact created for individual athletes. When you look at this link, it shows some of the fraudulent (as in fake) courses. There are for sure classes in which there was one person enrolled and that one person was in fact a men's basketball player. Don't be so dumb okay...
https://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/unc-academic-info.pdf
lol, only to UK fans and others who want to see UNC hit is this "indefensible." If this was as clear cut as you want to make it out to be, the NCAA would have already punished UNC. It isn't though. And that is why both UNC and the NCAA continues to wrestle with this issue.
You and others on this board continue to misrepresent what occur and you don't want to accept anything that challenges what you believe happened.
Dear lord, stop using this. Only 5.2 percent of the student body at UNC is comprised of varsity athletes. However, these particular classes were comprised of 44 percent athletes, a much higher average that the ratio of regular students to varsity athletes. Stop trying to spin it as though it matters that the athletes weren't a majority of the students in the classes. The fact that they were still 44 percent of the enrollment when they only comprise 5.2 percent of the student population is what is telling. However, you'll probably ignore that and try to spin it to fit your agenda.
lol. By going on TV, how is he not already painted as a narc?
He doesn't want to testify under oath and we all know why. Get real.
That's the best you can do, linking the Martin Report which has been exposed as i whitewash of the scandal and the report that exposed your school as the biggest cheaters in the history of college athletics?
Here are some quotes from some of the non-biased sources you are talking about.
"Was there some mistakes made?You're darned right there were. Was there some mistakes made? You're darned right." - Roy Williams.
"This steering was most prevalent among the counselors for the revenue sports of football and men's basketball." - Kenneth Wainstein.
"For the premier players, we we didn't write our papers. It was very simple. When it was time to turn our papers for the 'paper classes,' we would get a call from the tutors, we would all pack up in one big car , and ride over to the tutor's house, pick up our papers and go about our business." -Rashad McCants.
Those are quotes from the current coach, (one of the 4 who helped manage the fraud,) an ex-player who knew first-hand how the scheme worked and the person the university hired to investigate the scandal and whom you have cited as a credible source. Are you now saying these three sources are biased?
Ok... this seems to be your crutch, so let me just ask the following:
What if it was determined/proven that though not the creators of the courses, the athletic department did knowingly steer its student athletes to courses it knew were fraudulent?
Would you still stand-by the "they didn't create it" argument, or would you then acknowledge fault due to the athletic department being aware and complicit in its continuation?
You like to think you know why. It's so funny that you are over here on our sight running your trap on the day your team is playing for the title. LMaO!! You're such a dumbass. You really think you are going to convince us of anything?
It was fun guys.
Enjoy watching UNC play in the national championship tonight! Maybe you can start some more threads tomorrow about all the cheating going on that kept UK from getting to the Final Four.
Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
You should have waved the white flag an hour ago.
I am embarrassed for you.
It was fun guys.
Enjoy watching UNC play in the national championship tonight! Maybe you can start some more threads tomorrow about all the cheating going on that kept UK from getting to the Final Four.
Here's one for you asshat!
https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...ion-still-hangs-over-north-carolina/99962490/
That's like "almost pregnant ". You either are or you're not. Frauds classes geared toward atheletes existed or didn't.
Number one your own University Admitted that they were fruadulent classes,,, Not easy classes , they didnt meet the criteria that your college requires to even be easy classes. I assume that you also read UNC's SACCS response in which they admitted this. That is cheating, and yes all students even regular students should loose their credits in these classes. There is email after email of these people stating they cant add anymore athletes until they add more regular students, so they can use the out you are trying to use as they were available to all students, these emails by the way were released by your school as well....
Not waving the white flag at all. But I'm not going to sit here and continue to repeat the same stuff over and over again all afternoon. I answered all the questions given. Most of you didn't like the answers because you already have formed your opinion (based on who you cheer for in sports and not on the facts), but nevertheless, I addressed them.
Now, we are just a few hours from watching UNC for a national title tonight as you guys continue to whine about "cheating." Enjoy watching them Heels...and just in case you forgot how Carolina got to the Final Four, allow me to remind you...
Here it is:
What if it was determined/proven that though not the creators of the courses, the athletic department did knowingly steer its student athletes to courses it knew were fraudulent?
Would you still stand-by the "they didn't create it" argument, or would you then acknowledge fault due to the athletic department being aware and complicit in its continuation?
LMAO!!! You're a complete tool bag! Why would the university create these classes for the average student? Just think about it logically, if that's even possible for you, and without bias....... If the university is going to create classes like this, it's because there is a "certain" someone in which they have an invested interest in making the best possible grades. Is that not obvious? They're not going to create these courses and jeopardize their credibility for the average student. Why would they do something like that? They wouldn't!
The only reason to do something like this and risk this is because it can help them. The only way this can help them is with their athletes. If you can see that then you're dumber than I already thought you were.
And if you say.... there is no evidence, Well, I'd say there is but even if there isn't, it doesn't change the fact that it's true and you know it deep down. The fact that they made it "available" to the average student is simply their excuse of a defense if they got caught, which they did and they used. Everyone outside of their fan base can see it clear as day. You sound like a UL fan trying to defend prostitution.
Well really I'd like you to define what you mean by fraudulent, especially when it comes to who gets to set that standard (and enforce the standard) in terms of classes at a University. Is that standard set by the NCAA or by an academic accreditation board. You may roll your eyes at this, but that is a very important legal determination.
With that said, where the problem originates is key IMO. If an athletic department is clearly working with an academic department to create fraudulent classes just for student athletes to remain eligible, that would be clear cheating. However, if an academic department does this on its own, all students are affected by it, and academic counselors for athletes (and non-athletes) are simply helping them get into what they think are easy classes, I don't believe that is cheating. That occurs at almost every college in America.
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For this conversation. . . we will stick to those courses determined to be "anomalous" within the Martin report.
What if it were proven that athletes were steered to courses that were known to be something more than "easy". . . .courses later proven to not even meet the criteria of courses? Would you not consider the athletic department complicit in the continuation of the scandal if it knowingly participated?
I ask this because the defense within the UNC athletic department has been "we didn't know", whereas you don't seem to care if it knew. . . but only that it didn't "start" the problem.
I've got news for you. . . .that is NOT a defense. It's no more a defense than a guy who robs a store during a riot, and then turns and says...."yeah, but I didn't start the riot or looting".
Even you have to admit that 44.9% student athletes in fraudulent AFAM courses is an extremely high percentage, when the actual percentage of student athletes within the entire University student body at any one time is less than 1%.
That 44.9% number is precisely the reason why UNC is being investigated for this by the NCAA. If the percentage was 2%, then this issue would have never seen the light of day.
Your own school admitted they were fraudulent. The standard was set by UNC on what these independant studies classes should encompass..SACCS agreed with them and put you on probation for it. NCAA doesnt have to determine they were fraudulent , your own school did it for them in response to SACCS..
OMG! You're such an idiot! You say this is an athletic issue? Why the hell would someone create these courses for the average student? Why would they jeopardize their credibility for just some average student? The answer is that they wouldn't. You know that they were meant for athletes. This was simply your scapegoat when the NCAA came calling.
However, even if you were right (which you are not), it was used for cheating. Do you deny that? So, who cares why it was created, it was used and taken advantage of by athletes. What do you say to that dumbass?
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