POLL: Is there a God ??

[megablue]

Regardless of whether there actually IS a God ... does there HAVE to be one ??
I can accept the possibility of a universe with a God.
I can accept the possibility of a universe without a God.
Does everyone agree on this ... that there doesn't HAVE to be a God ?? Just curious ...

 

[christophero]

I definitely think there is a higher power. Saying someone created all this means there is a god or higher power. It doesn't make the Bible true. It could be; but that is the point of faith. I just get irritated when people say they know. I've had co-workers who were quite vocal about it. No one knows.

 

[mcnicKY91]

Regardless of whether there actually IS a God ... does there HAVE to be one ??
I can accept the possibility of a universe with a God.
I can accept the possibility of a universe without a God.
Does everyone agree on this ... that there doesn't HAVE to be a God ?? Just curious ...

The question becomes is it possible for something to come from nothing? That is a logical impossibility. Also, I look at how fine tuned the Earth is, and how it is sustained.

For me, there is no possible way this could all come from nothing. Because there is not one thing in this world that could come into being out of nothing. It is not scientically possible. So to answer your question, God has to exist.

 

[mcnicKY91]

So, are you responsible for the sins of your ancestors??

I am held accountable for my sin. No one else's, just mine. Which is why I am grateful to have a Savior who conquered death on my behalf.

 

[megablue]

The question becomes is it possible for something to come from nothing? That is a logical impossibility. Also, I look at how fine tuned the Earth is, and how it is sustained.

For me, there is no possible way this could all come from nothing. Because there is not one thing in this world that could come into being out of nothing. It is not scientically possible. So to answer your question, God has to exist.

Science is still grappling with the question of "nothing" and whether the universe actually had a beginning, and I certainly understand your position, but could something possibly come from nothing without a God ?? It that unthinkable ?? Thanks for the reply.

 

[Ron Mehico]

The question becomes is it possible for something to come from nothing? That is a logical impossibility. Also, I look at how fine tuned the Earth is, and how it is sustained.

For me, there is no possible way this could all come from nothing. Because there is not one thing in this world that could come into being out of nothing. It is not scientically possible. So to answer your question, God has to exist.

The options aren’t nothing or god though. The options are god or something else.

 

[mcnicKY91]

The options aren’t nothing or god though. The options are god or something else.

To me, those are the only options. There are no other gods or religious texts that explain the creation of the universe in the way the Bible does. Specifically, the 7 day creation story in Genesis. Everything we see, every day, is explained in Genesis. No other religious text can come close to matching that.

 

[christophero]

I certainly don't believe the flood story. One; getting all the animals, birds, bugs on a boat just makes no sense. And the fact that God would flood the entire world. Everyone was evil? Even the kids? Every single person? God made me with this brain, I can't just blindly believe in things like that.

 

[Ron Mehico]

To me, those are the only options.

It’s not really subject to opinion. You’re claiming what other people think for themselves, ie that if they didnt believe in god they think it comes from nothing. Similar to me saying a green plate is either blue or yellow and then someone says “neither”, and you go “well to me, those are the only two options”.

In the last 5 minutes 1,000 planets were created. To you, the god of the Bible created them. To others, they consider it a natural phenomenon beyond human comprehension. To others it’s another god. To very few if any it’s nothing.

 

[mcnicKY91]

It’s not really subject to opinion. You’re claiming what other people think for themselves, ie that if they didnt believe in god they think it comes from nothing. Similar to me saying a green plate is either blue or yellow and then someone says “neither”, and you go “well to me, those are the only two options”.

In the last 5 minutes 1,000 planets were created. To you, the god of the Bible created them. To others, they consider it a natural phenomenon beyond human comprehension. To others it’s another god. To very few if any it’s nothing.

I was answering the question as the poster laid it out. You are free to have your opinion as well.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Dude, what is your preoccupation with bringing politics into this thread? You are obsessed with it. Like I said earlier, take that garbage to, you know, the thread about politics.

Everyone worships something.

 

[Ron Mehico]

I was answering the question as the poster laid it out. You are free to have your opinion as well.

Your opinion is that other people do not have one different from yours, though. Which is not an opinion, by definition.

 

[megablue]

As you know, there are other creation stories besides the Abrahamic story of Genesis, but I understand that you accept the "7 day creation story in Genesis" as the bedrock of your belief in God as the creator of the universe. However, this story is thousands of years old and was written in a time when knowledge of the universe was practically non-existent. I totally understand that science is still grappling with the deepest questions about the origin of the universe and will probably not find the answers in our lifetime (if ever), but do you not find it even plausible that modern-day thinking should not be seriously considered ?? To my view, science does not "prove" or "disprove" the existence of a creator, but I find it difficult to believe that the universe was created in a 7-day (metaphorically, or otherwise) period of time. Billions of years makes far more sense to me ... fwiw. Such a fascinating topic to think about ... how the universe came to be and how big it actually is !!

I wish I were smart enough to participate in the study of its origin, especially now with the everyday discoveries being made with the James Webb telescope. Amazing stuff !!

 

[mcnicKY91]

Your opinion is that other people do not have one different from yours, though. Which is not an opinion, by definition.

I never said that. I am saying, based on the evidence I see, other gods are not valid. He said can we all agree that there doesn't have to be a god. I disagree with that.

Everybody is free to think what they would like.

 

[christophero]

What is the Hebrew take on Jesus? I'm honestly curious. I assume they believe he lived but the writers of the gospels changed them to fit the Messiah narrative. In sunday school they said "that would make Jesus a liar" but that is not really true.

 

[Ron Mehico]

I never said that. I am saying, based on the evidence I see, other gods are not valid. He said can we all agree that there doesn't have to be a god. I disagree with that.

Everybody is free to think what they would like.

“I’ve only ever considered wearing red or green pants, therefore you are wearing red or green pants”.

If you’re saying to YOU, the only options you seriously considered were either the god of the Bible or nothing, then that’s fine. But saying those are the ONLY two options isnt an opinion, it’s just wrong. People can think it’s Buddha or Allah or aliens or naturally occurring or multiple other options. I don’t think very many people thing it’s “nothing”. I mean im assuming im misunderstanding you or we might be arguing semantics.

 

[mcnicKY91]

“I’ve only ever considered wearing red or green pants, therefore you are wearing red or green pants”.

If you’re saying to YOU, the only options you seriously considered were either the god of the Bible or nothing, then that’s fine. But saying those are the ONLY two options isnt an opinion, it’s just wrong. People can think it’s Buddha or Allah or aliens or naturally occurring or multiple other options. I don’t think very many people thing it’s “nothing”. I mean im assuming im misunderstanding you or we might be arguing semantics.

Correct, to me, it is only the God of the Bible, or we came from nothing.

Of course there are millions of others gods that humanity worships. I acknowledge that. To me there is no evidence for their existence. Which, again to me, would leave the options of the God of the Bible, or coming from nothing.

Sorry for the confusion lol. I probably just sucked at explaining my position.

 

[christophero]

There should be a "maybe" option in the poll lol.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

The question becomes is it possible for something to come from nothing? That is a logical impossibility. Also, I look at how fine tuned the Earth is, and how it is sustained.

For me, there is no possible way this could all come from nothing. Because there is not one thing in this world that could come into being out of nothing. It is not scientically possible. So to answer your question, God has to exist.

Odin has to exist? Amun-Ra has to exist? Quetzalcoatl has to exist? Zeus has to exist?

Or is it only the xian god as described in the buybull that is allowed to exist? And those others are just silly, made-up nonsense?

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

Correct, to me, it is only the God of the Bible, or we came from nothing.

Of course there are millions of others gods that humanity worships. I acknowledge that. To me there is no evidence for their existence. Which, again to me, would leave the options of the God of the Bible, or coming from nothing.

Sorry for the confusion lol. I probably just sucked at explaining my position.

This sums up precisely how confusing it is when xians and atheists feel that they are far, far apart in their thinking. When actually, our differences in thinking are razor thin.

You dismiss a million gods and accept one. I dismiss a million and one gods.

Razor.

Thin.

 

[MidseasonTweak]

God is simultaneously:

• All loving

• Genocidal

• Omnipresent

• in need of prayer to be aware of issues

• omnipotent

• incapable of proving its own existence

• in control of everyone's fate

• generously giving us free will

AKA, bogus.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

Who would win in a fist fight? Hercules or Jesus?

Both have a god as a father. Both were born to a mortal mother and a step-dad. I know that Hercules was very strong, so he may have the advantage there. And Jesus was a bit of a pacifist. But if pushed, and if he learned to channel some of his real dad’s legendary anger, I bet Jesus could take him. He could use some of his magic. Since he could make a blind man see, surely his magic could work the other way, and he could take away Hercules’ eyesight and make him blind. Then he’d have a huge advantage, ducking and dodging as Hercules threw punches wildly until his arms were gassed. Then jesus could step in and give him a left jab/right cross combo. Then the big right uppercut for the knockout. Boom! JC with a surprise upset win. Then he could turn water into wine and celebrate with his 12 homies.

Your thoughts?

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

When/if we get to heaven, are we made whole again? Like, do we get perfect eyesight back. No more arthritis? We get a full head of hair? Are we reunited with our foreskins that were maliciously removed from us in a savage religious ritual, without our consent? I’d really like to know.

 

[MidseasonTweak]

God loves me so much that I'm going to be tortured for all eternity for simply refusing to believe without evidence of his existence. Like dude, just come out already and I won't be an atheist anymore.

Stop making me rely on a book written thousands of years ago, filled to the brim with contradictions and primitive human views of what God is compared to many religions of the time.

 

[J_Dee]

Your thoughts?

JC wouldn't need to blind Hercules, or even touch him. In the Synoptic gospels, after he trashes a corrupt temple, JC gets mad that a fig tree doesn't have any figs (he doesn't realize that it's out of season), so he destroys it with a simple verbal curse.

17 And he left them, and went out of the city into Bethany; and he lodged there.
18 Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered.
19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered
20 And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!

12 And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:
13 And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
14 And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.
15 And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the money changers, and the seats of them that sold doves;
16 And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple.
17 And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.
18 And the scribes and chief priests heard it, and sought how they might destroy him: for they feared him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine.
19 And when even was come, he went out of the city.
20 And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
21 And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursed st is withered away.

And in the New Testament apocryphon The Childhood of the Savior, little JC creates living birds out of clay:

1 When the boy Jesus was five years old, he was playing at the ford of a rushing stream. And he gathered the disturbed water into pools and made them pure and excellent, commanding them by the character of his word alone and not by means of a deed.
2 Then, taking soft clay from the mud, he formed twelve sparrows. It was the Sabbath when he did these things, and many children were with him.
3 And a certain Jew, seeing the boy Jesus with the other children doing these things, went to his father Joseph and falsely accused the boy Jesus, saying that, on the Sabbath he made clay, which is not lawful, and fashioned twelve sparrows.
4 And Joseph came and rebuked him, saying, “Why are you doing these things on the Sabbath?” But Jesus, clapping his hands, commanded the birds with a shout in front of everyone and said, “Go, take flight, and remember me, living ones.” And the sparrows, taking flight, went away squawking.
5 When the Pharisee saw this he was amazed and reported it to all his friends.

And of course, he can raise the dead.

So the first thing JC should do is cast Water Walk, then run 30 feet onto a lake where Hercules couldn't get to him. Next, he should cast True Resurrection (he has a special ability that allows him to cast it in one turn) to summon the Argonaut prince Iphitus of Oechalia (from hell, where Hercules sent him), and then he should cast Animate Objects on some clay pigeons to create ten small birds that he can command as a bonus action. Neither Iphitos nor the birds could take down Hercules, but with some luck they could get him under 100 HP (his AC has to be low, he's barely dressed), which would make him vulnerable to the spell that JC used to kill the fig tree: Power Word Kill.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

God loves me so much that I'm going to be tortured for all eternity for simply refusing to believe without evidence of his existence. Like dude, just come out already and I won't be an atheist anymore.

Stop making me rely on a book written thousands of years ago, filled to the brim with contradictions and primitive human views of what God is compared to many religions of the time.

Obviously, you have evidence of the existence of God. Without any evidence, we would not be having this discussion.

God will judge all of us.

But, we get it. You don’t believe. Not just don’t believe, but you feel the need to mock. Everyone got that from you many posts ago.

 

[MidseasonTweak]

Obviously, you have evidence of the existence of God. Without any evidence, we would not be having this discussion.

God will judge all of us.

But, we get it. You don’t believe. Not just don’t believe, but you feel the need to mock. Everyone got that from you many posts ago.

What evidence? No one has supplied that yet.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

What evidence? No one has supplied that yet.

Yeah, I am not explaining your misunderstanding about evidence again.

 

[MidseasonTweak]

Yeah, I am not explaining your misunderstanding about evidence again.

Feeling the "holy spirit" isn't evidence. A snake biting or not biting you isn't evidence either.

 

[MadaboutBlue]

I am held accountable for my sin. No one else's, just mine. Which is why I am grateful to have a Savior who conquered death on my behalf.

That's a fair answer, and I would suspect, and logically, most of us would agree with you. However, that's not what the Bible teaches. the Bible clearly says sin entered the world through Adam (Romans 5:12, and that we inherit that sin and are doomed to die because of it. Psalms 51:5 states “Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." Other versus say the same thing, and this idea seems to be one of the most consistent teachings in the entire Bible.

All this seems to put a damper on the free will argument, doesn't it? The only choice you actually have is whether or not you accept your Savior. Of course, even this choice is heavily influenced by social, cultural, and geographic influences. I might add, that for the first four thousand years of our existence (according to the generally accepted OT timeline), there wasn't even Savior to choose.

 

[mcnicKY91]

It was a question. You are seemingly OK with the idea that the majority of humans living today with suffer an eternity of pain, simply for not believing the same thing you believe in. And you are seemingly OK with murderers and lustful people getting an equal and eternal punishment. How do you sleep at night? If it doesn’t bother you and you sleep just fine, then I have my answer. If it really bothers you to the point where it disrupts your sleep, then I have my answer.

Nah...asking "How do you sleep at night" is not merely a question, as you are trying to make it seem. Anybody with an understanding of the English language is well aware what that phrase/question attempts to do, which namely is to demean someone or make them look inferior. It is not used in the context that you are claiming to have used it. And you know that dude.

 

[mcnicKY91]

That's a fair answer, and I would suspect, and logically, most of us would agree with you. However, that's not what the Bible teaches. the Bible clearly says sin entered the world through Adam (Romans 5:12, and that we inherit that sin and are doomed to die because of it. Psalms 51:5 states “Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." Other versus say the same thing, and this idea seems to be one of the most consistent teachings in the entire Bible.

All this seems to put a damper on the free will argument, doesn't it? The only choice you actually have is whether or not you accept your Savior. Of course, even this choice is heavily influenced by social, cultural, and geographic influences. I might add, that for the first four thousand years of our existence (according to the generally accepted OT timeline), there wasn't even Savior to choose.

I understand your premise. However, being born with a sinful nature is different than choosing to sin once you are born.

I can still choose not to sin even though I am born with a sinful nature. It is not like someone says "oh man i am born sinful, i have no choice but to sin because i was born sinful." There are many a times where I choose to, on my own volition because of my free will, reject God and follow my own desires. That is part of living as a fallen man in a fallen society.

You are 100% right that sin entered the world because of Eve (then subsequently Adam), and we are doomed to die because of the sin in our life (if we don't take the free gift of Jesus).

But I have the choice to go to God in my moments of weakness and draw on strength from Him to overcome my temptations, or give in. The choice is mine.

I would use the following analogy. Alcoholism runs in many families around the world. If I become an alcoholic, I can't just say "well it's my parents fault, and their parents fault because they were alcoholics." No, I have to take accountability for my actions and choice to become an alcoholic despite being born with a predisposition to drink.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

Nah...asking "How do you sleep at night" is not merely a question, as you are trying to make it seem. Anybody with an understanding of the English language is well aware what that phrase/question attempts to do, which namely is to demean someone or make them look inferior. It is not used in the context that you are claiming to have used it. And you know that dude.

You’re taking it out of context.

 

[mcnicKY91]

You’re taking it out of context.

Unless you are my wife asking me how do I sleep at night because our 8 month old is up non stop, there is no other way to contextually take what you said within the context of your post any other way other than a demeaning post. Ask anybody in this thread, and if they are being intellectually honest, would all 100% agree with me.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

Unless you are my wife asking me how do I sleep at night because our 8 month old is up non stop, there is no other way to contextually take what you said within the context of your post any other way other than a demeaning post. Ask anybody in this thread, and if they are being intellectually honest, would all 100% agree with me.

If you don’t believe in atheism you can’t fully comprehend what I meant.

 

[SDC888]

"a god" is a logical necessity; it's even etymologically contained within the word logic itself. God, then, is only accurately described in the Bible.

The evidence for Him is overwhelming, everywhere and in everything. It's not like you are "dumb" for not seeing it, and other "explanations" like aliens or computer simulation (whatever) demand their own further explanations based on nothing but plausible speculations. Science "explaining" is describing: it does nothing to negate His reality except in the minds/opinions of the unbeliever...people who have made a religion out of it, Scientism. It's not like God is only in the parts we don't understand.

 

[MidseasonTweak]

"a god" is a logical necessity; it's even etymologically contained within the word logic itself. God, then, is only accurately described in the Bible.

The evidence for Him is overwhelming, everywhere and in everything. It's not like you are "dumb" for not seeing it, and other "explanations" like aliens or computer simulation (whatever) demand their own further explanations based on nothing but plausible speculations. Science "explaining" is describing: it does nothing to negate His reality except in the minds/opinions of the unbeliever...people who have made a religion out of it, Scientism. It's not like God is only in the parts we don't understand.

Still waiting on the evidence.

 

[christophero]

Creation means there is probably a creator of some kind. It does not mean that it is the God of the Bible that created it. It could be. Or we just don't understand it. Time may not be linear; so the universe could have always existed. It would be like trying to explain TV to a dog. There is plenty we don't understand.

 

[MatteoV25]

When/if we get to heaven, are we made whole again? Like, do we get perfect eyesight back. No more arthritis? We get a full head of hair? Are we reunited with our foreskins that were maliciously removed from us in a savage religious ritual, without our consent? I’d really like to know.

Not only that, since there's no sadness in heaven are we forced to forget all family/friends that didn't make it to heaven with us. If so, wouldn't that change the whole makeup of our being since we wouldn't be the exact same person/soul without the influence of having those people in our lives?

 

[SDC888]

Creation means there is probably a creator of some kind. It does not mean that it is the God of the Bible that created it. It could be. Or we just don't understand it. Time may not be linear; so the universe could have always existed. It would be like trying to explain TV to a dog. There is plenty we don't understand.

THere is indeed plenty we don't understand. But it is not through a "we" that God is known, but through an "I."

It is dependent on you and Him, not "us."