POLITICAL THREAD

[fuzz77]

The Gang of 8 Bill - specifically on H1B visas is the biggest crock of ish I have ever seen and it would have KILLED new college graduates.

FYI. My employer currently has 37 IT positions open in our Tampa office. There are positions at all levels and salaries from $60K-$150K and are almost all, bonus eligible. We currently have fewer than 50 resumes received from outside the organization in total for these positions. Hell, we have a policy that we will interview a minimum of 3 people for each position and for most we can't even reach that threshold so that we can make an offer. Over half of those are from current H1B holders who have contracts ending soon. We offer our associates a $4500 finders fee if they present someone who is hired. We have over 800 associates in IT including FTE and contractors...~300 are filled by H1B holders...two thirds of our IT staff is foreign born. Not because we want it that way but because there is no other alternative except not filling positions. The H1B process is very expensive for employers. We've spent $10's of thousands on bringing someone over from India and have them get here, work a few weeks or months and then want to return home. We are out $15-$20K and have to refill the position.
Bottom line...if you have a degree in computer science or a related field and cannot find a job. You're either a total idiot, have a criminal record or you're in a location with no jobs and not willing to relocate. That or you're a COBOL, FORTRAN or RPG programmer and not willing to do anything else.

While there may be H1B abuses in some areas...corporate America's IT staffing is highly dependent upon the process.

 

[WayneDougan]

FYI. My employer currently has 37 IT positions open in our Tampa office. There are positions at all levels and salaries from $60K-$150K and are almost all, bonus eligible. We currently have fewer than 50 resumes received from outside the organization in total for these positions. Hell, we have a policy that we will interview a minimum of 3 people for each position and for most we can't even reach that threshold so that we can make an offer. Over half of those are from current H1B holders who have contracts ending soon. We offer our associates a $4500 finders fee if they present someone who is hired. We have over 800 associates in IT including FTE and contractors...~300 are filled by H1B holders...two thirds of our IT staff is foreign born. Not because we want it that way but because there is no other alternative except not filling positions. The H1B process is very expensive for employers. We've spent $10's of thousands on bringing someone over from India and have them get here, work a few weeks or months and then want to return home. We are out $15-$20K and have to refill the position.
Bottom line...if you have a degree in computer science or a related field and cannot find a job. You're either a total idiot, have a criminal record or you're in a location with no jobs and not willing to relocate. That or you're a COBOL, FORTRAN or RPG programmer and not willing to do anything else.

While there may be H1B abuses in some areas...corporate America's IT staffing is highly dependent upon the process.

Counterpoint: Almost all IT entry level positions are outsourced to India at wages of $7500 per year. This is where IT skills are developed. Companies then claim they don't have the skills they need. I used to work at Oracle. I was developed this way. You don't see it any more.

 

[warrior-cat]

Might be ignorancif voter, might just be knowing how to read a poll. Speaking for myself, what I've always said about Trump hasn't changed. He is unusual in that he has a hard floor, somewhere around 30%, and a hard ceiling, somewhere around 45%. He can't go below his floor, because he has that many supporters who will stick by him no matter what he says or what we find out about him. But he can't get above the ceiling because a majority of voters say they won't vote for him under any circumstance. You can win the nomination if there are 4 or 7 or whatever candidates and no one wil get a majority. Trump has won several states and hasn't gotten 50% yet. In a one on one election, you can't win with less than 50. Like I said earlier, he has that ceiling and super high negatives even though there's been hardly any negative campaigning against him.

I know what's going on in the country, I understand the anger and the appeal of a populist, nationalist message. That many angry, committed votes is a powerful thing. But guess what? 42% is still 42%, whether those 42% are as devoted as a 13 year old to Bieber or rather hold their nose when they vote. 42% is a loser either way.

However, the lesser of two evils could propel him over the top if voter turn continues to run favorable to the GOP.

 

[qwesley]

 

[qwesley]

also feeling the Bern

 

[fuzz77]

Counterpoint: Almost all IT entry level positions are outsourced to India at wages of $7500 per year. This is where IT skills are developed. Companies then claim they don't have the skills they need. I used to work at Oracle. I was developed this way. You don't see it any more.

Not exactly. While my current employer and past employers have routinely outsourced operations...ie, running of nightly processing and such, they only execute and monitor those operations. If something goes bump in the night, someone gets a call and things get fixed domestically. Some project work may get outsourced if we lack the in-house capacity to meet the project time line if we are given clean, clear and precise specs. Otherwise, the time required to write specifications clear and complete enough to send to an offshore developer take twice as long as those for domestic consumption.
As for Oracle and other large software development organizations. They have large presences in India because that is where they have to go to get enough resources with the specialties they need. We have an IT staff of about 800 and have difficulties filling positions. I can only imagine scaling that up 20+x and trying to do so. If companies can't find the numbers they need then they have no choice other than to go overseas. Oracle still has 50+K employees in the US...so it isn't as if they have abandoned the market.

From Bloomberg: "In 2012, college grads with computer science degrees had a much lower unemployment rate than business majors—4.9 percent, compared with business students’ 6 percent. The jobs they had were better paying, too, yielding a median $66,000 per year compared with business majors’ $50,000, according to the report, which looked at 2012 career outcomes for students who graduated from college during the 2007-08 academic year."

So it isn't that CS majors can't find jobs. We use co-ops from the local universities when we can get them and convert them to FTEs at a pretty high rate. If you co-op with us and don't get offered...you were a complete f-up. As I said in my other post. We try to interview at least 3 people for every position and have a difficult time getting 3 resumes for many positions...and entry level ones are the most difficult to fill.

Limiting H1Bs will only lead to more jobs being outsourced overseas in those difficult to fill areas. So instead of having them here and getting the befit of the taxes on their income, the revenue from their paying rent, buying groceries, purchasing automobiles and other consumables...that money will all go overseas and befit someone over there. At least if the job is here, local talent has a shot at that position.

 

[WayneDougan]

Not exactly. While my current employer and past employers have routinely outsourced operations...ie, running of nightly processing and such, they only execute and monitor those operations. If something goes bump in the night, someone gets a call and things get fixed domestically. Some project work may get outsourced if we lack the in-house capacity to meet the project time line if we are given clean, clear and precise specs. Otherwise, the time required to write specifications clear and complete enough to send to an offshore developer take twice as long as those for domestic consumption.
As for Oracle and other large software development organizations. They have large presences in India because that is where they have to go to get enough resources with the specialties they need. We have an IT staff of about 800 and have difficulties filling positions. I can only imagine scaling that up 20+x and trying to do so. If companies can't find the numbers they need then they have no choice other than to go overseas. Oracle still has 50+K employees in the US...so it isn't as if they have abandoned the market.

From Bloomberg: "In 2012, college grads with computer science degrees had a much lower unemployment rate than business majors—4.9 percent, compared with business students’ 6 percent. The jobs they had were better paying, too, yielding a median $66,000 per year compared with business majors’ $50,000, according to the report, which looked at 2012 career outcomes for students who graduated from college during the 2007-08 academic year."

So it isn't that CS majors can't find jobs. We use co-ops from the local universities when we can get them and convert them to FTEs at a pretty high rate. If you co-op with us and don't get offered...you were a complete f-up. As I said in my other post. We try to interview at least 3 people for every position and have a difficult time getting 3 resumes for many positions...and entry level ones are the most difficult to fill.

Limiting H1Bs will only lead to more jobs being outsourced overseas in those difficult to fill areas. So instead of having them here and getting the befit of the taxes on their income, the revenue from their paying rent, buying groceries, purchasing automobiles and other consumables...that money will all go overseas and befit someone over there. At least if the job is here, local talent has a shot at that position.

Total BS... For non-IT jobs we're issuing H1Bs. It's insane. And the dudes who don't get their H1B extended, they pay Sullican U $30K for a student visa and ability to work. Such a scam.

 

[fuzz77]

Total BS... For non-IT jobs we're issuing H1Bs. It's insane. And the dudes who don't get their H1B extended, they pay Sullican U $30K for a student visa and ability to work. Such a scam.

I did not say that it wasn't abused only that there are consequences to not issuing the visas. Do you want the jobs here in the US or overseas? I can tell you that my company would have little alternative other than to take a good percentage of our development offshore.

 

[KingOfBBN]

also feeling the Bern

How dare you hate women and the freedom of breast feeding without any decency. You mysogynist bigot.

If anyone needs counseling for this traumatic event, I'll be on campus to talk to you about how you've been affected.

 

[krazykats]

LOL at fuzz walking himself to the IT woodshed and explaining the exact reason Trump may help this country.

Even though it is the only thing he may be able to control and improve, it's still fuzz's focus!

 

[fuzz77]

LOL at fuzz walking himself to the IT woodshed and explaining the exact reason Trump may help this country.

Even though it is the only thing he may be able to control and improve, it's still fuzz's focus!

Ok krazy...please explain how that will be because I don't think anyone really knows his position on the subject?

Add the fact that there is no soundbite solution to the issue. As I've stated...we have many open positions that we cannot fill. We have over 300 contractors filling positions where we would prefer FTEs...and many of those FTEs are H1B visa holders. While they may be working for the contracting agencies on the cheap...what we have to pay the contracting agencies is more than the cost of the FTE. They are for us the resource of last resort.

If you think rhetoric = woodshed then I can't help you. I know the reality of the situation. A large share of our development work would get pushed offshore or else it wouldn't get done at all. Tell me who that would benefit?

 

[Mojocat]

However, the lesser of two evils could propel him over the top if voter turn continues to run favorable to the GOP.

Yep. I could be reading it wrong, it's a crazy year - and I was wrong once. Maybe the huge edge the GOP has in enthusiasm holds and makes the difference. Hillary is really a poor campaigner despite the assumption people make that she's a wiz because of her last name. People are generally tired of the idea of Bushes and Clintons running things anyway. It's conceivable she gets indicted. It really is a year when the Rs should be well positioned. So maybe more people will opt for Trump if that's the choice. I think he'll try to run to the left of Clinton in some ways, and maybe that will pick up votes.

Still. Those numbers are bad, and foreboding.

 

[Mojocat]

The Gang of 8 Bill - specifically on H1B visas is the biggest crock of ish I have ever seen and it would have KILLED new college graduates.

Alright. See, the immigration thing has never been a big issue to me, which is why I could support Rubio and others just can't. Which is evident in your answer. I ask about an economics issue, you cite Gang of 8. If I asked about Rubio on morals or on trustworthiness, you'd cite I suspect Gang of 8. For people who really care about immigration, it's the lens thru which they see all.

 

[KingOfBBN]

Alright. See, the immigration thing has never been a big issue to me, which is why I could support Rubio and others just can't. Which is evident in your answer. I ask about an economics issue, you cite Gang of 8. If I asked about Rubio on morals or on trustworthiness, you'd cite I suspect Gang of 8. For people who really care about immigration, it's the lens thru which they see all.

Where do you live? I'd say that might heavily influence your lack of concern on immigration. A lot of my family in Kentucky are very far removed from it so they don't see how insane it is in places like California.

It's a huge concern for multiple reasons. They have very little to offer, they are burden economically, they don't assimilate, they become a huge portion of the population despite coming from a third world country (so low-skilled and uneducated), they don't put their share in the pot, they fill up doctors offices, their refusal to learn English most of the time means we have to accommodate them (total BS) not to mention the crime they also bring here.

Here is a pretty wild one for you. California handed out 605,000 drivers licenses to illegals last year. 605,000!!!! These are the people that can't be bothered to try and get citizenship but they can go down to the DMV for a license (somehow we can't deport them). Now you want to know another stat that California has? They have 4x the amount of hit and runs compared to the national average. What do you think that connection is? Probably a bunch of illegals with no insurance or citizenship, driving around.

California also only makes up 12 percent of the country yet makes up 34 percent of the country's welfare recipients. Kind of wild, huh? Wonder what connection there is to that?

I'll never understand why our country willingly just gives it away and our citizens are totally fine with it. I know why politicians do it but why do the people allow it? Hell, Japan doesn't allow any immigration and they're doing fine yet we continue to take in the world's problems despite them having nothing to offer because anyone who is worth a shit, would have no problems going the legal route.

 

[Mojocat]

^^yep. Live outside of Louisville. It's just not "real" for me. I understand that there are laws and laws need to be followed - really that's the main point for me. But it's not something that really inflames me....

 

[KingOfBBN]

For any of you who want to see an amazing documentary about how insane college campuses are today, take a look at this...



It shows you how "tolerant" libs are to conservatives on campus and how they react when challenged even in a civil way. You should see the stats as well for the lib professor to conservative professor ratio and the consequences of not being on the left.

It's interesting that this group thinks they're rebellious and "against the man" but doesn't see that they are the establishment. If you don't submit to them, they try to ruin you or silence you. It's crazy how far we have come that now conservatism is the counter culture of today in academia and even society.

Well worth a watch.

 

[krazykats]

I did not say that it wasn't abused only that there are consequences to not issuing the visas. Do you want the jobs here in the US or overseas? I can tell you that my company would have little alternative other than to take a good percentage of our development offshore.

Read this posted by you and realize it's the exact thing Trump really says he wants. Bring back jobs but still keep American companies competitive.

 

[jamo0001]

ok, scenario:

Trump falls just short of a bullet-proof majority. Cruz, Rubio, and Kasich finish a distant 2/3/4 in the delegate count. We head to the convention.

Rubio, Cruz, and Kasich get in a room and cut the following deal: Rubio/Kasich on the ticket (in whatever order) in exchange for Cruz' delegates and a promise for the first SCOTUS vacancy to be given to Cruz. A Trump/Cruz ticket is less likely to win than a Rubio/Kasich one, while a Cruz top-of-ticket is the most likely to hurt down-ticket Republicans (and possibly cost the Senate). A Rubio/Kasich pairing is the most favorable on the electoral map and there's almost assuredly going to be a SCOTUS vacancy within the next four years even if Scalia's seat gets filled before February.

If you're Cruz, do you take that deal? Would you rather have an outside shot at the VP office or a pretty good shot at a SCOTUS chair?

 

[KingOfBBN]

Can they actually do that?

 

[jamo0001]

Can they actually do that?

the vast, vast majority of the delegates so far are pledged delegates (few unpledged, no "superdelegates" like on the Democratic side).

the main issue would be whipping the votes on the floor after the first ballot doesn't produce a winner. If all three campaigns know the plan beforehand, it's feasible.

 

[KingOfBBN]

Gotta love Bernie Sanders comments about white people not understanding what it's like to be poor.

"When you're white you don't know what it's like to live in a ghetto. You don't know what it's like to be poor."

That will go down as the dumbest thing that was said during this election. Whites don't know what it's like to be poor? Hahaha.

I guess I'm gonna have to go to Appalachia and tell all of those people to atone for their white privilege.

 

[warrior-cat]

Yep. I could be reading it wrong, it's a crazy year - and I was wrong once. Maybe the huge edge the GOP has in enthusiasm holds and makes the difference. Hillary is really a poor campaigner despite the assumption people make that she's a wiz because of her last name. People are generally tired of the idea of Bushes and Clintons running things anyway. It's conceivable she gets indicted. It really is a year when the Rs should be well positioned. So maybe more people will opt for Trump if that's the choice. I think he'll try to run to the left of Clinton in some ways, and maybe that will pick up votes.

Still. Those numbers are bad, and foreboding.

Yeah, your right about a crazy year. The GOP has been screwing it up for a while now so trying to get establishment candidates in position to win is proving to be difficult.

 

[Willy4UK]

ok, scenario:

Trump falls just short of a bullet-proof majority. Cruz, Rubio, and Kasich finish a distant 2/3/4 in the delegate count. We head to the convention.

Rubio, Cruz, and Kasich get in a room and cut the following deal: Rubio/Kasich on the ticket (in whatever order) in exchange for Cruz' delegates and a promise for the first SCOTUS vacancy to be given to Cruz. A Trump/Cruz ticket is less likely to win than a Rubio/Kasich one, while a Cruz top-of-ticket is the most likely to hurt down-ticket Republicans (and possibly cost the Senate). A Rubio/Kasich pairing is the most favorable on the electoral map and there's almost assuredly going to be a SCOTUS vacancy within the next four years even if Scalia's seat gets filled before February.

If you're Cruz, do you take that deal? Would you rather have an outside shot at the VP office or a pretty good shot at a SCOTUS chair?

I bet the Dems are salivating at the mouth for Rubio being the Repub candidate.

This will be a Mitt Romney blow out if Rubio runs. That I f****** guarantee. Mark my words. If Rubio runs, it will be a blow out loss for him. Hopefully the Repubs get their shit together in 2020 and realize you can't keep running these bat shit crazy evangelicals. That run is officially o-v-e-r.

 

[DaBossIsBack]

Gotta love Bernie Sanders comments about white people not understanding what it's like to be poor.

"When you're white you don't know what it's like to live in a ghetto. You don't know what it's like to be poor."

That will go down as the dumbest thing that was said during this election. Whites don't know what it's like to be poor? Hahaha.

I guess I'm gonna have to go to Appalachia and tell all of those people to atone for their white privilege.

That's going to go down as one of the dumbest things said? Haha It was dumb. But the dumbest? Come on man.

 

[qwesley]

How hypocritical have HRC and Bernie been while grandstanding about Flint (never let a good tragedy go to waste!)? So much so that Michael Moore feels the need to slam them.

Michael Moore

✔‎@MMFlint
Flint has voted for Dems for 84 straight yrs. What did it get us? For 18 months Dems remained silent &ignored pleas while Flint was poisoned

 

[ukalumni00]

Where do you live? I'd say that might heavily influence your lack of concern on immigration. A lot of my family in Kentucky are very far removed from it so they don't see how insane it is in places like California.

It's a huge concern for multiple reasons. They have very little to offer, they are burden economically, they don't assimilate, they become a huge portion of the population despite coming from a third world country (so low-skilled and uneducated), they don't put their share in the pot, they fill up doctors offices, their refusal to learn English most of the time means we have to accommodate them (total BS) not to mention the crime they also bring here.

Here is a pretty wild one for you. California handed out 605,000 drivers licenses to illegals last year. 605,000!!!! These are the people that can't be bothered to try and get citizenship but they can go down to the DMV for a license (somehow we can't deport them). Now you want to know another stat that California has? They have 4x the amount of hit and runs compared to the national average. What do you think that connection is? Probably a bunch of illegals with no insurance or citizenship, driving around.

California also only makes up 12 percent of the country yet makes up 34 percent of the country's welfare recipients. Kind of wild, huh? Wonder what connection there is to that?

I'll never understand why our country willingly just gives it away and our citizens are totally fine with it. I know why politicians do it but why do the people allow it? Hell, Japan doesn't allow any immigration and they're doing fine yet we continue to take in the world's problems despite them having nothing to offer because anyone who is worth a shit, would have no problems going the legal route.

I was in Dallas for the Final Four a few years ago and remember going to a Wal Mart and was shocked at how many Hispanics were in that place. For a second I thought I was in Mexico and the ones I could hear talking were not speaking English (highly doubt most could anyway). We have them where I live, but nothing to that extent. A lot of Americans do not deal with them on an everyday basis and have no clue how bad of a problem they are in other parts of the country and how they are a massive drain on this country (economy, health care, etc). If they come legally, learn English, become productive tax payers, etc. I have zero problem with them or any other immigrant.

I can bet you that if not for Trump hitting the issue hard early on, it would be a small dot on the election radar right now which is further proof that none of these candidates (except Trump) are really interested in building the wall and fixing the problem.

Ted Cruz has no ability to work with others and will be a massive failure as President. Rubio is just another Washington puppet. Kasich has the best political resume of the bunch but will do what his donors and lobbyists tell him to do.

The fix is in on Trump and there is no doubt in my mind this goes to the convention and will educate the American people even further on how crooked our political system is and how there are folks in power who will make sure of it that their money, influence. and power stay intact which is why many of them would be ok with Hilary in office. There are many reasons to not like Trump, but I continue to support the guy because when I see the media and establishment both trying to destroy him all it tells me is that he is a legitimate threat to business as usual and is the only candidate left that has the ability to make some real noise in Washington.

 

[qwesley]

I see the media and establishment both trying to destroy him

Here is where you lose me. The guy has shitload of questionable dealings and resume and his behavior is that of a middle schooler at a prep school....let's not act like the reason he is getting criticism from all around is that he is upsetting the (overused) "establishment". He has gotten more face time than any other candidate and if it were as bad as some are saying he would not be continuing to go on those shows.

I agree completely on the first paragraph and it needs to be thrown in the face of Dems regarding the crowding of schools and wage suppression.

The honest answer about the Gang of 8 and Bush's previous play at amnesty was that the GOP was terrified of being on the losing end of the populism play and the only way to avoid being skunked with another minority group would be to not be seen as the bad guy. Poplulism has damaged the GOP far more than "the establishment".

 

[TransyCat09]

Is Mexico still going to pay for the wall or nah?

 

[CatsFanGG24]

I bet the Dems are salivating at the mouth for Rubio being the Repub candidate.

This will be a Mitt Romney blow out if Rubio runs. That I f****** guarantee. Mark my words. If Rubio runs, it will be a blow out loss for him. Hopefully the Repubs get their shit together in 2020 and realize you can't keep running these bat shit crazy evangelicals. That run is officially o-v-e-r.

No. Rubio has a lot of the same qualities Obama had...and you saw how that went - 8 years. You are expecting too much out of the American voter. Rubio/Kasich or the other way around would win.

 

[qwesley]

Is Mexico still going to pay for the wall or nah?

yes, with their EBT card

 

[TransyCat09]

They might even speak Spanish while building the wall.

First immigrant group to not speak English, to boot. Never seen anything like it

 

[WettCat]

Is Mexico still going to pay for the wall or nah?

No estamos pagando por la pared ni puta estúpida gringa...

 

[Willy4UK]

No. Rubio has a lot of the same qualities Obama had...and you saw how that went - 8 years. You are expecting too much out of the American voter. Rubio/Kasich or the other way around would win.

Nopety nope. Rubio isn't winning shit. Hillary is loving the thought of having to run against Rubio.

Obama does have a lot of the same qualities, except Rubio isn't near the smooth talker that Obama is.

When Rubio gets rustled, he falls apart like wet toilet paper.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

Nopety nope. Rubio isn't winning shit. Hillary is loving the thought of having to run against Rubio.

Obama does have a lot of the same qualities, except Rubio isn't near the smooth talker that Obama is.

When Rubio gets rustled, he falls apart like wet toilet paper.

I think you'd be shocked. But it won't come to that.

 

[Willy4UK]

I think you'd be shocked. But it won't come to that.

Man, we'll see. But I called Romney's shalacking, and I'm calling this one too. I bet Rubio can't get over 200 electoral votes.

 

[Willy4UK]

He is such a weak leader. Easily disrupted and loses composure. That will not sell to the general public. Rubio won't get the Independents or Libertarian votes. Gonna be tough for him.

 

[KingOfBBN]

That's going to go down as one of the dumbest things said? Haha It was dumb. But the dumbest? Come on man.

A nominee suggesting that all blacks are poor and live in ghettos and that all white people must be rich, is pretty stupid.

 

[JHB4UK]

for fraks sake, Willie's hate on Rubio is so over the top. he ain't winning the nomination anyway, but if you can't see that he is easily the most likeable and thus more electable of all the top GOP candidates then your blind. yeah bottom line he might just be an empty suit good talker good looker Republican version of Obama, but guess what last time I checked Obama won 2 general elections.

but, winning isnt the goal of most making the choices thus far in the GOP race, lets pick between 2 guys who are assholes that the general public will viscerally dislike and vote against. if the result of this election is that pretend conservative commentators who have shilled out for Trump are forever cast aside and rejected, I'm fine with that. Bye Limbaugh, Hannity, Drudge, Coulter, Ingraham. Insane that Glen Beck is the one of the group who has been rational and principled.

 

[starchief5]

The biggest show in Washington today is the Canadian Prime Minister Trudeau visit, the guy given little chance to win that election. Yes, a lot of people have a visceral dislike for Trump. But a lot of people also have a visceral dislike for Hillary as well. I would not be surprised at all if the Repubs have a bombshell to drop on Hillary that they are saving until about October. No need to waste it for the Primary. And, after eight years of one party, people are usually ready to "kick the bums out."

 

[P19978]

Is Mexico still going to pay for the wall or nah?

IIRC the trade deficit with Mehico is $58b.

The plan is to have those funds re-directed (instead of paying Mexico) to build the wall.

Again, IIRC.