POLITICAL THREAD

[Catfan in Tn.]

Not allowing people on the no fly list to buy weapons sound great. I would be afraid that with this Administration this could become political as a means to simply put people on that list for the purpose of not allowing them to buy guns. We already have people on the no fly list for reasons they don't know and can't find out why.

 

[KY_Kid]

Fewer than 300 people killed each year with rifles of any type, but yes, after San Bernardino the number one thing we should do is put restrictions on rifles. Fix everything IMO.

Also, what possible harm could come from banning people on the no-fly list from purchasing guns without due process. I mean, other than the fact that the majority of people on the list aren't actually terrorist suspects. But other than that, what ya got RETHUGLICANS!?!?! HUH?!?! *dealwithitmeme*

Looks like you and I heard the same speech.

 

[TransyCat09]

Also, were either of the shooters on the no-fly list? What a touching stupid non-sequitor ploy used exclusively to latch onto the latest Buzzfeed 5 CRAZY GUN LAWS YOU CANT BELIEVE ish circulating the internet.

I mean seriously, what the eff do these two things have in common? I assume it started when some internet blogs probably "discovered" this while doing research for once and now everyone has their ire up. Some factoid the pajama boys of the world can use when arguing with their redneck cousins at Christmas in order to feel superior without actually exposing themselves to people who read and think about the issues

 

[KY_Kid]

I highly doubt they were on the no fly list considering they both apparently flew back from Saudi Arabia or Pakistan just last year.

 

[JumperJack]

Public money to show you how your free thoughts are wrong. The PC circle jerk rolls on.

 

[krazykats]

Fewer than 300 people killed each year with rifles of any type, but yes, after San Bernardino the number one thing we should do is put restrictions on rifles. Fix everything IMO.

Also, what possible harm could come from banning people on the no-fly list from purchasing guns without due process. I mean, other than the fact that the majority of people on the list aren't actually terrorist suspects. But other than that, what ya got RETHUGLICANS!?!?! HUH?!?! *dealwithitmeme*

I will tell you my problem with it, your asking an incompetent govt to take on more reponsibility that it can't handle. They fail at everything they take on yet people only think of fixes that include them to fail more.

Congrats tho, the thought is great honestly, however the execution won't be.

 

[warrior-cat]

Going back to the mutt comment, no, he is not a mutt. Mutts are trustworty, loyal, and intelligent. This guy is either ignorant, stupid or truly hates this country. After his address tonight, it should be obvious to anyone who is smart enough to figure this out. And by the way Funky, it only took me a couple of minutes to type this. It was needed to point this out to you because, you are one of the ones who have not figured this out yet.

 

[krazykats]

People said I was wrong for disrespecting the presidency and warrior, my man, says he wasn't even worthy of my description. While I agree let's not forget he is our president.

How TF did we hire this guy...........Twice! It would seriously be like bringing BCG back to UK.

 

[warrior-cat]

She nailed it.

 

[TransyCat09]

**EDIT** Nevermind, if you can't see why personal attacks against Bush are different from attacks on a person's race then you are not worth engaging

 

[warrior-cat]

Me: Freedom!

Obama and his followers: What!? No wait, was that a slight? You can only have freedom to say what you want only after we have vetted the meaning of the word to approve its usage.

 

[TransyCat09]

Freedom? After you posted a video that you said "nailed it" wherein the host mentions the need for the federal government to infringe everyone's 4th amendment right?

 

[warrior-cat]

She nailed the point about needing to arm ourselves and to stop taking in refugees because the vetting process we have does not work and other areas. To the point about attacks on Bush vs attacks on Obama being different, it is only so because of the PC culture. You do not have to use any racial inferences to be called a racist with Obama. You need only disagree with is policies and the left labels you a racist and if you agree with that then, your point of not engaging anyone on that is probably a good one. BTW, I did not attack his race so, you made my point above.

 

[TransyCat09]

Calling Obama a "mutt" is absolutely an attack on his race and there is no logical explanation to the contrary. If not, then provide me an example of another President being described, negatively, as a mutt. I would never say an attack on Obama's intelligence or leadership is racist, but when you EXPLICITLY LIST THE PURENESS OF HIS LINEAGE AS A NEGATIVE then that is racist. Pure and simple.

For Example:
"Bush is Hitler" is a personal (stupid) attack on George W Bush

"Obama is a mutt" (used in a negative sense) is an attack on all people with mixed ancestry. Krazy said that being of mixed ancestry was a negative thing.

As has been mentioned, there is a difference between being anti-PC and being pro-stupid stuff.

 

[krazykats]

**EDIT** Nevermind, if you can't see why personal attacks against Bush are different from attacks on a person's race then you are not worth engaging

 

[WSU/UKfan]

If you want to be an American and live this life (which by the way is a good one) then assimilate into our culture and leave yours back where it belongs. If you do not, me and people like me will fight you to our last breath. We are Americans and that says it all.

What is the American culture? What new ways do people need to adopt to avoid "people like you" fighting?

it should be merely stated that he is not doing his job and is not at all a good or even (in this case) a decent president.

Obama is a Democratic President who is and has pushed largely Democratic/Progressive policies. How is that not doing his job? Or are you arguing that Democrats by default can't do the job just because you don't agree with them?

Also, what possible harm could come from banning people on the no-fly list from purchasing guns without due process. I mean, other than the fact that the majority of people on the list aren't actually terrorist suspects. But other than that, what ya got RETHUGLICANS!?!?! HUH?!?! *dealwithitmeme*

"What possible reason do we have to allow someone on a no fly list to have a gun?"

Oh, I don't know. Maybe we shouldn't allow someone's second amendment rights to be randomly abridged without due process because the government put them on a secret list sometimes without obvious reason given. This so called free society is becoming a caricature of itself.

If you guys think there are issues with the list then why not argue improving the list and making it more reliable? The concept of having a list of people who are suspicious and shouldn't have guns is a pretty good concept considering we know there are terrorist, both foreign and domestic, who wish to do this country harm.

She nailed the point about needing to arm ourselves.

Her point is silly given the fact that people have already armed themselves. Telling Americans to arm ourselves is like telling us to drink beer and watch football. We're already doing that ish

 

[krazykats]

Please explain where I said it was negative? You may deem the word "mutt" as negative and get all uppity about your stance in race relations, and good for you!

I give a damn about him being black, though I did not vote for him I was pumped for how it showed how far we have come to elect him. Now I'm more pissed about his Muslim way of life than anything. And to be honest I'm not even sure it's his Muslim belief but his inability to just accept that the stuff is bad and most likely terror attacks have once again hit here and it wasn't freaking workplace violence!

I will never claim to be a genius or expect millionaire treatment but goodness I'm no fool.

 

[krazykats]

The American culture is simple, give away anything we can to keep people voting democrat! Bring in foreigners by the thousands who cares! Who cares that we got millions of illegals working for cheap driving wages down, and not paying taxes, then sending money back to their families as they should! It's a vacuum and sucks money right out of our country.

But yes bring in more, and more, and more! Damn it we are pissing of the republicans and those sons of bitches are out voting like madmen......more foreigners! Terrorists?!? Who cares get them and get them voting for Allah sake!

TBH honest and not some what sarcastic for a minute who knows if Obama's decisions are good or bad! We never do until 2-3 years down the road. I will say I'm just pissed all the way around at the man. He is so going against the grain of the history of our country that he seriously may get Trump( a democrat before this year) elected as a republican. That's the cherry on top.

 

[JumperJack]

Lincoln was called an ape and a baboon. Adams was called a hermaphrodite. These are just a few I remember. Why can't Obama be called a mutt?

If this this man or anybody else is going to be protected with a ridiculous double standard then there really is no hope for any racial equity.

 

[TransyCat09]

So then your use of mutt was positive? If it wasn't positive then why use that term at all? Would you ever describe another President as a mutt? Why did you include mutt in a list of negative traits of Obama?

I don't know why you expect everyone reading that post to be idiots and not know exactly what you meant. Here, let me clarify:

"Obama is is doing some underhanded stuff during this debate"

"Obama is an American hating mutt"

The first sentence reflects your distaste for how the President is handling a debate. Someone could challenge this on PC grounds, but I and most people would say the use of "underhanded" isn't a code word used to describe black people, but just the perception of how things are being handled.

In the second sentence you are conflating his race with his hatred of America. Even bring up his race in that situation makes no sense unless you truly feel his race is playing a negative role. Seriously, explain how calling him a mutt is not based on his racial makeup

 

[krazykats]

Pretty simple if you understand what a mutt is. Basically a mix of multiple different backgrounds, race, nationalities etc etc

While his race is a mixed breed, his religion is too! He tried to pass himself as a Christian with all that Jeremiah Wright character nonsense during his first election, but it's clear as day he is a true Muslim at heart. Therefore mixed breed on religions.

Again, I don't give a damn about the man being white, Hawaiian, Kenyan, black, African American, or whatever else he may be.

Yes I think the mans religion has shown he hates America just like most Muslims. This was a democratic capatilize society and he has in 2 terms pushed us to as close of a socialist govt as a president could. He has done his best to lay the ground work for us to fall off drastically as world leaders, and while we aren't 3rd world I'd guess without doing any research that we are an immigrant dominated nation more so than ever. While that should be ok, America is conforming to these 3rd world immigrants instead of making them conform to us.

Call me whatever you want, it is no sweat off my back at all. But I can conversate or debate a different point of view without namecalling, labeling, stereotyping, or any other form of anti-PC you can conjure up.

We don't have to agree and I will respect your opinion. But this president is is the worst thing that happened to us.

 

[krazykats]

Oh and no mutt wasn't used positive, but it wasn't used racially either. I'm not sure I'd use any words in any for. Right now to describe this president as positive.

 

[warrior-cat]

WSU/UKFAN: You clearly do not understand what is going on.

1. I am talking about people assimilating into our culture and not trying to change it when they come here.

2. Obama said he wants to Fundamentally change America. Told Republicans not long after being elected POTUS that we won the election deal with it. Suggesting that about half of the nation did not matter and has basically governed that way.

3. No, not everyone is armed and protected as you wrongfully suggest. Many states make it harder than others to conceal carry and that was her suggestion. Some people do not want to go through the hassle for it. You were either being disingenous, or did not comprehend her message which I think is probably the case given the other points in your post.

 

[Willy4UK]

WSU/UKFAN: You clearly do not understand what is going on.

1. I am talking about people assimilating into our culture and not trying to change it when they come here

Here's what people don't understand. We are fighting an ideology, not a nation.

This is absolutely no different than the Nazi ideology that wiped out 6 million Jews.

People hate Nazis, people should hate muslims. Same intensity of shitty, violent ideology.

 

[SomeDudeCRO]

You have to weigh the benifits (none you mentioned really help at this time) against the possible harm both physical (which would be deadly) and psychological harm (fear and hate) created by all of the problems from what the radicals have done at this point.

That is just the liberal position in general; that it's better to try to work with Islam community to root out the extreme views and then further to find the ones willing to act on them. Whereas the conservative is not allowing the refugees in, tighter immigration and up to including registered muslims and maybe even ID cards (or something like that Trump position whatever).

And then the liberals are so afraid of looking irrationally bigoted that they do a diservice to the obvoius reality that the extreme ideals need to be rationally combated.

imo you can't stop another San Bernardino any easier than a disgruntled sexually frustrated 20 year old college campus shooter unless you get lucky.

 

[krazykats]

Actually instead of gun control you could require gun education and encourage everyone to be knowledgable. You could be thankful for those people that want guns now and are as capable to protect in these situations as the killers are capable of doing this anywhere!

I do not believe that Muslims should all be hated, but man it's hard work not doing it. My problem is and always will be in these situations is the "good" Muslims are too scared to fight their own and stand up for what's right. It's a joke that it basically has to become a religious war instead of just a war. Anyone against this BS is Christian and wrong for wanting to end it, and anyone saying maybe we should t fight is a Muslim.

It's honestly horrible when you start to think "just wipe them all out" because in reality that's not a real solution. What is though is having a president that is on one side or the other and willing to make a stand. If you polled every AMERICAN in the U.S. I bet you'd maybe have 25% confident in his ability to lead over this time. You can not be on both sides of this fence, just can't and that's exactly what he is trying to do because he is so scared of the bad image it may portray on his people.

 

[qwesley]

Obama is a Democratic President who is and has pushed largely Democratic/Progressive policies. How is that not doing his job? Or are you arguing that Democrats by default can't do the job just because you don't agree with them?

wow...this mindset of "winning" as success not the impact of policy is why we are where we are.
And if the GOP suggested changes to the list to add due process but also linked it to another issue they wanted attention on, would he negotiate and compromise or would he just stump on demonizing the GOP for not doing what he wanted while accusing them of helping ISIS?

 

[qwesley]

The NYT was against terror watch lists last year as they thought it was mean towards foreigners.

The Opinion Pages | EDITORIAL
Terror Watch Lists Run Amok
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/19/opinion/terror-watch-lists-run-amok.html?_r=0&referer=

 

[wkycatfan]

Here's what people don't understand. We are fighting an ideology, not a nation.

This is absolutely no different than the Nazi ideology that wiped out 6 million Jews.

People hate Nazis, people should hate muslims. Same intensity of shitty, violent ideology.

Willie, I know what you are trying to say, and I agree somewhat. However, there are are muslims who are beginning to see what true Islam is, and are leaving it. The die is cast for the radicals, and death is the only way to stop them. I know many here, like yourself, hate religion of all kinds, but I have empathy for the moderates, as they are in a counterfeit religion. The ones who have left Islam for Christianity, for example, are able to speak very truthfully about what Islam is really about, and what it will lead people into.

 

[Willy4UK]

Willie, I know what you are trying to say, and I agree somewhat. However, there are are muslims who are beginning to see what true Islam is, and are leaving it. The die is cast for the radicals, and death is the only way to stop them. I know many here, like yourself, hate religion of all kinds, but I have empathy for the moderates, as they are in a counterfeit religion. The ones who have left Islam for Christianity, for example, are able to speak very truthfully about what Islam is really about, and what it will lead people into.

You notice your last sentence? That its in a nut shell. Until they leave that ideology, there is no hope for them.

You don't think there were Nazi sympathizers? Plenty of Nazis who helped Jews during that horrid time. But yet, still when boot came to shove, what did those Nazis do? They followed command.

To me no difference.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

If you guys think there are issues with the list then why not argue improving the list and making it more reliable? The concept of having a list of people who are suspicious and shouldn't have guns is a pretty good concept considering we know there are terrorist, both foreign and domestic, who wish to do this country harm.

The no fly list is a great idea, in theory. However in practice it gives some mysterious group of people the ability to remove rights from american citizens without due process of law. Wanting to add guns to the rights removed just makes a bad process worse.

I dont think most americans would be so hesitant had this administration not clearly and repeatedly shown its propensity for using branches of the government to launch attacks against political enemies. The EPA was used to attack coal and the IRS was used to attack conservative groups. So the concern is well founded.

Even if you dont account for Obama's use of government against political enemies, theres still cause for concern. The NSA listens and watches basically everything we do. Yet they STILL failed to stop terrorist attacks in Boston, Chattanooga, San Bernadino; and the attacks on military bases.

They dont need more power over the populace. They have all they need to keep us safe, and then some. They need to completely rework how they analyze the data they have. Because its clear that what theyre doing isnt working.

Here's what people don't understand. We are fighting an ideology, not a nation.

This is absolutely no different than the Nazi ideology that wiped out 6 million Jews.

People hate Nazis, people should hate muslims. Same intensity of shitty, violent ideology.

This is why its so hard. These people are hidden amongst innocents, so you cant just bomb their country into oblivion. Even when you kill 100 of them, the cause uses that as motivation to radicalize 200 more. Now theyve shown the ability to hide in plan sight and attack soft targets. How do you combat this? Especially given that at least some of the domestic terrorists have civil rights?

The only real way to defeat them is to cut off their money. That wont entirely defeat them in the short term, but at least that will reduce their threat and growth. Obama has stood idly by while this group has grown into a formidable foe. I remember only a year or so ago the first ISIS beheading video made its rounds, and we were told it was no big deal, because they were lead by a failed rapper who lived in his parents basement. So much for that.

 

[qwesley]

 

[Willy4UK]

This is why its so hard. These people are hidden amongst innocents, so you cant just bomb their country into oblivion. Even when you kill 100 of them, the cause uses that as motivation to radicalize 200 more. Now theyve shown the ability to hide in plan sight and attack soft targets. How do you combat this? Especially given that at least some of the domestic terrorists have civil rights?

The only real way to defeat them is to cut off their money. That wont entirely defeat them in the short term, but at least that will reduce their threat and growth. Obama has stood idly by while this group has grown into a formidable foe. I remember only a year or so ago the first ISIS beheading video made its rounds, and we were told it was no big deal, because they were lead by a failed rapper who lived in his parents basement. So much for that.

You said it waaay better than me. Great post.

 

[WSU/UKfan]

wow...this mindset of "winning" as success not the impact of policy is why we are where we are.
And if the GOP suggested changes to the list to add due process but also linked it to another issue they wanted attention on, would he negotiate and compromise or would he just stump on demonizing the GOP for not doing what he wanted while accusing them of helping ISIS?

I didn't say anything about him winning as an automatic impact of success. The guy made a point that Obama isn't doing his job and I pointed out that he is a Democratic president who has pushed Democratic policies throughout his presidency, which is doing his job.

If politicians, GOP or Democrats, both agreed on adding due process to the watch list but one side decided to attach something else for political reasons, than that side deserves to get demonized. Republican or Democrat.

 

[Mojocat]

This is absolutely no different than the Nazi ideology that wiped out 6 million Jews.

Nazis had a uniform. Big difference, evidently. I think Ernest T Bass was on to something, ahead of his time......

 

[Deeeefense]

You notice your last sentence? That its in a nut shell. Until they leave that ideology, there is no hope for them.

You don't think there were Nazi sympathizers? Plenty of Nazis who helped Jews during that horrid time. But yet, still when boot came to shove, what did those Nazis do? They followed command.

To me no difference.

Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi recently married a German girl, so maybe you're onto something there.

 

[WSU/UKfan]

WSU/UKFAN: You clearly do not understand what is going on.

1. I am talking about people assimilating into our culture and not trying to change it when they come here.

2. Obama said he wants to Fundamentally change America. Told Republicans not long after being elected POTUS that we won the election deal with it. Suggesting that about half of the nation did not matter and has basically governed that way.

3. No, not everyone is armed and protected as you wrongfully suggest. Many states make it harder than others to conceal carry and that was her suggestion. Some people do not want to go through the hassle for it. You were either being disingenous, or did not comprehend her message which I think is probably the case given the other points in your post.

1. I know. And I'm asking you to be more specific. What does assimilating to our culture look like to you? What are examples of people trying to change our culture?

2. Obama never suggested that half the country doesn't matter. " And to those Americans whose support I have yet to earn, I may not have your vote, but I hear your voices, I need your help, and I will be your President too." He did win the election and the republicans who were mad about it did have to deal with it. That's just the facts.

3. I didn't say EVERYONE was armed already. My point was that our society is already arming themselves. She says get a gun and for the last several years Americans have been getting guns at increasing rates to the point where it's silly to hear her tell people to get one.

Here's what people don't understand. We are fighting an ideology, not a nation.

This is absolutely no different than the Nazi ideology that wiped out 6 million Jews.

People hate Nazis, people should hate muslims. Same intensity of shitty, violent ideology.

People should hate radical Muslims, not all of them. How many other Nazis did Nazis kill, because Radical Muslims kill more Muslims than they do anyone else.

 

[qwesley]

I didn't say anything about him winning as an automatic impact of success. The guy made a point that Obama isn't doing his job and I pointed out that he is a Democratic president who has pushed Democratic policies throughout his presidency, which is doing his job.

If politicians, GOP or Democrats, both agreed on adding due process to the watch list but one side decided to attach something else for political reasons, than that side deserves to get demonized. Republican or Democrat.

His job is to make good policies, not ones that garner his party more power. Again, you are cheerleading.
Where have they agreed on what due process should be added..link? Perhaps the left has completely poisoned the well of this debate by doing nothing but demonizing and clearly signalling that their goal is to repeal the 2nd amendment. Keep cheering though.

 

[WSU/UKfan]

His job is to make good policies, not ones that garner his party more power. Again, you are cheerleading.
Where have they agree on what due process should be added..link? Perhaps the left has completely poisoned the well of this debate by doing nothing but demonizing and clearly signalling that their goal is repeal the 2nd amendment. Keep cheering though.

I'm not cheerleading anything. My point isnt " Obamas policies are good because he's a Democrat pushing progressive policies", my point, in response to someone saying that Obama isn't doing his job, is that he is doing his job. He ran as a democrat. He got elected based on democratic policies and he got into office he implemented those policies. Whether you agree with the policies or not, what part of that is not doing your job?

I didn't says they agreed, I was responding to the hypothetical you proposed of them agreeing on it but then the GOP attaching something else to a bill.

 

[qwesley]

I'm not cheerleading anything. My point isnt " Obamas policies are good because he's a Democrat pushing progressive policies", my point, in response to someone saying that Obama isn't doing his job, is that he is doing his job. He ran as a democrat. He got elected based on democrati policies and he got into office he implemented those policies. Whether you agree with the policies or not, what part of that is not doing your job.

That is not his job. That silly simplification of his job is pure cheerleading driven...the only way a grown adult can justify that as his role. Goodness. The exit polling of his voters was hardly support of his policies, so no that is not why he was elected. Not to mention many of his "wins" have come against public opinion.

Leading is the primary job of the POTUS and he has failed miserably. Is he leading on gun issues or campaining? The GOP was given historical gains in 2010 and 2014 should they take the same one-sided stance?