Taylor may be more than a depth piece, DL coach said this week he's currently the most consistent DL they have.
At 280 Carter's undersized to be a SEC DT. Obviously he has time to grow/add weight but not sure they'd move him.
Paschal and the 3-4...
- Thread starter WildCard
- Start date
At 280 Carter's undersized to be a SEC DT. Obviously he has time to grow/add weight but not sure they'd move him.
Why not, I can read, even if you think people that live outside Lexington don't have that ability. You don't think he is a good poster?
I even like your info, just sometimes wonder if you get a lot of your facts because you have mitch's secretary to look up a lot of details for you. And I even share your optimism about the program NOW, weird alliance you have with Slugger.
And people think I spend too much time on here, I'm retired and a widower, aren't you still working, and do you have a wife that demands a small portion of your time? Almost sounds like a full time job with you, it takes a lot of time to look up all those names and facts.
And you have ONE big agenda, excuses for mitch starving the program into oblivion for ten years-----until the strike.
Come in, attack in 5. 4, 3,------
I assume he was sitting behind Boogie and others, but he must have some athleticism if they were trying to find a way to get him into the field at TE. Morrow has said that Rigg is also a potential pro at TE. They must have wanted Bannerman to learn the spot to provide depth and a field presence when they lose Conrad and Rigg.
I don’t count Bannerman out on defense. I just think depth was creating barriers, but that does not mean he cannot work his way up.
I think Paschal and Taylor will gobble up the snaps at defensive end and upgrade the position. Your assessment of Carter might be true if our players were not subject to development. Carter is young, and has plenty of room in his big frame to play at 300+. His strengths and limitations might be better suited for the tackle position, and he might be useful there as an understudy and eventual successor to Middleton.
We had an overabundance of talented edge linebackers, but that has been resolved to a certain extent by Alex King’s move to Mike and Paschal’s move to defensive end. I think Bannerman has enough length and talent to work his way into the playing rotation on the edge eventually. Maybe or maybe not in 2018.
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Carter could use a redshirt year and get stronger if we had enough depth.
That’s true. Unless there is an injury, it’s rare for a player who played as a true freshman to get a redshirt later. But that opportunity could exist for Carter in 2018, since Paschal and Taylor can handle the defensive end duties. If Paschal becomes our starting defensive end through 2020, then Carter should move to tackle.
Paschal was listed as 255# as a commit, listed as 270# on the roster now, I guess 290# or more is quite possible. Bohanna has gained a lot more, before the season and since then both. Not much talk about the strength program lately, but that is impressive, I don't think either one slowed down one bit.
As I said, Carter has time to grow.
One player not mentioned who could help if the light comes on is Looney.
Looney and Carter have come under some offseason criticism from Coach Stoops about their focus. So, we have the move of Paschal to defensive end, the improvement of Taylor, and the need to groom a successor at tackle for Middleton. Since McCall seems slotted as a nose tackle, the only other newcomers I could see impacting Middleton's position In the foreseeable future might be Mahone or Hawkins, who looks more like an end than a tackle at this point. I add all of that up, and I see Carter possibly moving over to tackle where he and Looney could benefit from more competition. So, Middleton, Looney, Carter, Mahone at tackle. Paschal, Taylor, Daniel, Hawkins at end. Maybe. Just guessing.
Thought I saw where Daniel was moved to Jack. Don't forget Hoskins on the DL too.
Daniel has moved back and forth between defensive end and Jack linebacker several times. He can play both, and he should contribute this year. The move of Paschal to defensive end shifts current needs for some of the backups, but unforeseen injuries and other developments will probably shift them again. As for Hoskins, I haven't forgotten him but I still have to be convinced he is a significant factor. Same for Dubose. Right now, both are backup nose tackles who will have to fend off Marquan McCall. Whatever we get from them is gravy, but neither will figure as a future successor to current starters. And if Hoskins displaces Looney on our playing chart, I would regard that as a bad sign for the future.
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Hoskins drew praise the last few games/bowl for seemingly making a move for more PT. Just have to see what unfolds this spring.
Carter is shown at 265 now, wonder where Hoskins fits, haven’t seen his name in coaches’ comments?
I see multiple "roster" references in this thread. The Rivals roster and the UKAA roster are in conflict. Is there a current, up to date, 2018 spring practice roster? (And, yes, I realize some guys get position flipped at spring practice).
Peace
EDIT: Never mind; just found it (needed to select 2018 on UKAA Football site).
Peace
EDIT: Never mind; just found it (needed to select 2018 on UKAA Football site).
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I noticed Daniel's weight is listed down on the new roster although he never looked like he weighed the listed 260. 235 is what he is listed now I believe so they may have different plans for him this year.
Using that "new" 2018 football roster on the UKAA site (and going back to my question about DL positions) we find....
Ignoring FR for the moment...
• Well stocked (5 at 295#+) at "classic DT" position (4/4i technique)
• Thin in numbers (only Bohanna) for "classic NG" position (0/1 technique)
• Other than Paschal, very small at "DE position" (best I can figure 4/4i technique to field side). FWIW, Paschal is so quick off the ball (terrific DE prospect in a 4 man line) I think he can "get it done" but, even at 280#, I think he is giving up a lot as a B gap defender. JMO
Peace
DE #35 Denzil Ware 240# (+5# from 2017)
DE #90 T.J. Carter 265# (-15# from 2017)
DL #97 Chris Whitaker 227# (-33# from 2017)
DT #59 Kordell Looney 297# (+4# from 2017)
DT #60 Calvin Taylor 300# (-5 from 2017)
DT #92 Phil Hoskins 306# (+26# from 2017)
DT #96 Abule Abadi-Fitzgerald 281# (+21# from 2017)
DT #98 Tymere Dubose 315# (-5# from 2017)
DT #99 Adrian Middleton 298# (+23 # from 2017)
NG #95 Quinton Bohanna 340# (+20# from 2017)
OLB #4 Joshua Paschal 278# (+8 from 2017)
#20 K. Daniel (235#) now at OLB not DE (-25# from 2017)
DE #90 T.J. Carter 265# (-15# from 2017)
DL #97 Chris Whitaker 227# (-33# from 2017)
DT #59 Kordell Looney 297# (+4# from 2017)
DT #60 Calvin Taylor 300# (-5 from 2017)
DT #92 Phil Hoskins 306# (+26# from 2017)
DT #96 Abule Abadi-Fitzgerald 281# (+21# from 2017)
DT #98 Tymere Dubose 315# (-5# from 2017)
DT #99 Adrian Middleton 298# (+23 # from 2017)
NG #95 Quinton Bohanna 340# (+20# from 2017)
OLB #4 Joshua Paschal 278# (+8 from 2017)
#20 K. Daniel (235#) now at OLB not DE (-25# from 2017)
Ignoring FR for the moment...
• Well stocked (5 at 295#+) at "classic DT" position (4/4i technique)
• Thin in numbers (only Bohanna) for "classic NG" position (0/1 technique)
• Other than Paschal, very small at "DE position" (best I can figure 4/4i technique to field side). FWIW, Paschal is so quick off the ball (terrific DE prospect in a 4 man line) I think he can "get it done" but, even at 280#, I think he is giving up a lot as a B gap defender. JMO
Peace
Probably right. There are a lot of contemplated position changes, but that is typical for spring football. Getting our best players on the field, and getting each player positioned for his optimal development, are what spring is for. I think the development of Taylor late in 2017 and the move of Paschal to end will have a domino effect on a lot of other players. Carter and Daniel in particular. Something to watch for this month is positioning of a younger tackle as Middleton’s heir apparent. From what Stoops recently said, I think they want the heir apparent to be Looney, but they aren’t sure about him yet.
Depending on the particular scheme and responsibilities of each position, there isn't a need for the 3 down linemen to be 300+.or even the huge guy playing NG, in fact teams have actually gone away from the monster NG the last few years. UGA will have 1 DL playing the 1 technique who is 300+, another playing a 5 who is 300+ and the 3rd playing a 6-7 280 and probably less. The OLB are usually taller guys in the 245-250 range which UK has that fit perfectly into a 3-4 and smaller quicker inside guys, which fits Jones perfectly if he is over his shoulder issues. From the list you have, UK looks to be in good shape to run a similar scheme depth wise with 6 guys right at 300+, 2 guys for the outside guy and Ware with his hand in the dirt on passing downs/
Bama's guy playing the 1 was in the 310 range last year, so was UGA's, at least that was his listed weight and he was a good bit older than most college kids after a year at prep school and a RS at UGA. This year UGA's will be near the same, signed a huge frosh at 340 but most are expecting him to redshirt
All true. But if you are going to line up in a 4 technique you are staring straight at a 320# OT. Obviously if you line up wider than a 5 tech a smaller guy has a an edge rush advantage. But schematically the wider he plays, the wider the B gap for the ILB even if your nose is shaded to that side.
I just believe if you are playing as a down lineman in a 3 man front you got to have some size. Note that the largest of the 2 DEs I listed was 265#. If that ends up being the case for UK I am inclined to think GA is going to run at that gap just about every play.
![[winking]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/wink.r191677.gif "Winking [winking]")
Peace
All true. But if you are going to line up in a 4 technique you are staring straight at a 320# OT. Obviously if you line up wider than a 5 tech a smaller guy has a an edge rush advantage. But schematically the wider he plays, the wider the B gap for the ILB even if your nose is shaded to that side.
I just believe if you are playing as a down lineman in a 3 man front you got to have some size. Note that the largest of the 2 DEs I listed was 265#. If that ends up being the case for UK I am inclined to think GA is going to run at that gap just about every play.
Peace
I am really not following what you are saying, they better defenses in 17 who ran a 3-4 didn't trot 3 300lb guys out on the field, it was 2, one played a 1 and the other played in a 3 or 5, the smaller guy played in a 6 or 7. Of course they have to be fairly athletic, but not many teams are relying on a power running game anymore, defenses are getting lighter and faster to combat the spread and dual threat RB, just can't have a guy out there to plug the middle and end up playing 10 on 11.
Wildcard,
I think a slight change to your lineup does answer the question a little:
Down Lineman
DE #4 Joshua Paschal 278# (+8 from 2017)
DE #60 Calvin Taylor 300# (-5 from 2017)
DE #90 T.J. Carter 265# (-15# from 2017) ; he has been 280 plus since he began playing, so I wonder if that isn't a typo on the website. If not, it seems a little strange for him to have lost so much weight
DE Davaon Hawkins 250+ as an incoming freshmen - will be surprised if he doesn't bulk up to the 280-290 range
NG #95 Quinton Bohanna 340# (+20# from 2017)
NG #98 Tymere Dubose 315# (-5# from 2017); I think he has played almost exclusively at NG even though he is listed as a DT on the site
NG Marquan McCall 343#; every fan would love to see linemen redshirt, but he will play if he is good enough (as we saw with Bohanna in 2017)
NG Jerquavion Mahone 300# as an incoming freshmen - will be surprised if he doesn't bulk up to the 310 range pretty quickly
DT #92 Phil Hoskins 306# (+26# from 2017) - I think he played some NG but primarily on passing downs
DT #99 Adrian Middleton 298# (+23 # from 2017)
DT #59 Kordell Looney 297# (+4# from 2017)
DT #96 Abule Abadi-Fitzgerald 281# (+21# from 2017); considering he has gained over 40 lbs since he signed in Feb 2017, it wouldn't be a surprise to see him gain another 10 lbs or so by the time he is really neede
Now, I agree nobody will confuse that with BAMA or UGA's DL, but I cannot remember the last time UK had that many guys on the DL that have made significant contributions...even down to 2nd/3rd string guys like Taylor, Dubose. Those guys haven't made huge contributions, but they've made plays here and there, which is good to see from "depth" guys.
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Once you get into the definite passing situations, you can add the OLB positions b/c UK played a lot more 4-3 looks.
I know some of these guys will be Jack and some SLB, but I am just listing all OLB.
OLB #35 Denzil Ware 6'2 240# (+5# from 2017)
OLB #97 Chris Whitaker 6'3 227# (-33# from 2017)
OLB #20 Kengera Daniel 6'5 235#
OLB #41 Josh Allen 6'5 252
OLB #15 Jordan Wright 6'5 236
OLB #31 Boogie Watson 6'3 234
That's as deep of a collection of athletic pass rushers that I can remember seeing at UK. Now - here's to hoping to more 3rd and longs so these guys can be utilitized more.
I know some of these guys will be Jack and some SLB, but I am just listing all OLB.
OLB #35 Denzil Ware 6'2 240# (+5# from 2017)
OLB #97 Chris Whitaker 6'3 227# (-33# from 2017)
OLB #20 Kengera Daniel 6'5 235#
OLB #41 Josh Allen 6'5 252
OLB #15 Jordan Wright 6'5 236
OLB #31 Boogie Watson 6'3 234
That's as deep of a collection of athletic pass rushers that I can remember seeing at UK. Now - here's to hoping to more 3rd and longs so these guys can be utilitized more.
I suspect you are close. Some roles may change in the next several weeks. I think our nose guards will be Bohanna, Dubose, McCall, with McCall eventually climbing the chart once he is in optimal shape. Tackles could be Middleton, Hoskins, Looney. Ends could be Paschal, Taylor, Abadi-Fitzgerald. Abadi-Fitzgerald has a long frame and probably isn’t a tackle. Our coaches can evaluate Carter’s future and decide whether to redshirt him in 2018. Carter has the frame of a tackle, but needs development that was missed by not redshirting. If Carter plays in 2018, he might be an end or a tackle, depending on development and need. If they move him inside, he has all summer to add good weight. And if they redshirt him, he has a year to do that. They have that luxury if best for the player. In past years, Hawkins and Mahone would have played as true freshmen. But we have a deeper roster now. Even if Mahone and Hawkins redshirt, either could become heir apparent to Middleton unless Looney turns it up.
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Agree with that. The next several weeks should get interesting. Jack - Ware, Wright, KeDaniel. Mike - KaDaniel, King. Will - Jones, Davis. Sam - Allen, Watson, Whittaker. Watson can play all 4 positions. Wright, Davis, King should be the biggest positive surprises, but I honestly believe Kash Daniel will be a very effective Mike linebacker. I think Oats, Square, Pierre redshirt. But if Jones gets injured again, then Oats probably plays.
If Jordan Jones gets injured, I wonder if the coaches would slide Boogie into his spot just to have more experience there, which would allow Oats to keep his RS while Boogie/Davis to hold down the spot.
How great would it be for other players to step up enough to allow Carter to get that RS year back? I'm not saying he would necessarily want to do so, either. However, given he has been such a key contributor the last 2 years, it would be a great indicator the defensive line has improved going into 2018.
Actually that isn't much different than UGA's DL. We just signed a 340lb in Feb. but most everyone is expecting him to RS. Right now if we were opening this weekend we would look something like this, starters at top
DT-305 NG- 305 DE 280
305 310 270
300 305 265
We have 5-6 more DL that haven't found a spot on the depth chart or are looking at a RS year but our DL isn't huge nor was it last year, Bama's wasn't much bigger than ours but a little and some 1st rounders on it, dont think we have any that will go that high, but all but 2 of those were soph last year so maybe if they stay 2 more years hopefully they could be.
I imagine that’s a possibility, depending on how much playing time Watson is getting at the time at other linebacker positions. Oats is very lanky, and would obviously benefit from a redshirt if that can be accomplished. I saw Oats play in high school, and the athletic attributes that contributed to his player rankings are real. But he isn’t currently strong enough to play football in the SEC. Oats is physically similar in build to Jamin Davis, but Davis got his redshirt and used it well for physical development.
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Carter needs a redshirt. Without it, he probably won’t reach his performance ceiling. With Taylor’s development and Paschal’s move to end this spring, they have enough talent to redshirt Carter. I hope that is the coaches’ thinking.
Grumpy and I have been having a little chalk talk about what is necessary for the DLs in a 3 down front. By and large, in any scheme, except for the oversized NGs desired by many, DLs have generally been "smaller and quicker" than the OLs blocking them. The question is how small can you go? And I'm talking regular down/distance situations, not "special" situational packages.
I will concede that a "lighter" DL can play inside of a 5 tech in a 1 gap front but I think it takes exceptional athletic ability (i.e., speed, strength, position techniques) to effectively do so against "decent" OL talent. IOW, a "smallish" guy can line up full time between the OTs but he has to be good. To that point, the GAs, ALs, tOSUs, Clemsons and a few others always do better than the rest of us in acquiring those hardest to acquire recruits, i.e., "big men that can run".
And yes, the current "spread the field" offenses have placed even more value on quickness and speed everywhere including your D line.
But back to the point of this thread UK's currently listed DEs are 240# (Ware), 265# (Carter) and 278# (Paschal). Will that get the job done against "average to better than average OLs"? IDK, but other than Paschal that seems smallish to me. Personally I would love to see some 1s v. 1s spring work but that ain't gonna happen (at least I'm not going to see it).
The weights and positions I cited were from the current UKAA 2018 on line roster. Spring practice frequently changes specific positions within the OLs and DLs. As UKSanders suggests I would not be surprised to see an addition or 2 to the current "DE" position.
Peace
I will concede that a "lighter" DL can play inside of a 5 tech in a 1 gap front but I think it takes exceptional athletic ability (i.e., speed, strength, position techniques) to effectively do so against "decent" OL talent. IOW, a "smallish" guy can line up full time between the OTs but he has to be good. To that point, the GAs, ALs, tOSUs, Clemsons and a few others always do better than the rest of us in acquiring those hardest to acquire recruits, i.e., "big men that can run".
And yes, the current "spread the field" offenses have placed even more value on quickness and speed everywhere including your D line.
But back to the point of this thread UK's currently listed DEs are 240# (Ware), 265# (Carter) and 278# (Paschal). Will that get the job done against "average to better than average OLs"? IDK, but other than Paschal that seems smallish to me. Personally I would love to see some 1s v. 1s spring work but that ain't gonna happen (at least I'm not going to see it
).The weights and positions I cited were from the current UKAA 2018 on line roster. Spring practice frequently changes specific positions within the OLs and DLs. As UKSanders suggests I would not be surprised to see an addition or 2 to the current "DE" position.
Peace
Grumpy and I have been having a little chalk talk about what is necessary for the DLs in a 3 down front. By and large, in any scheme, except for the oversized NGs desired by many, DLs have generally been "smaller and quicker" than the OLs blocking them. The question is how small can you go? And I'm talking regular down/distance situations, not "special" situational packages.
I will concede that a "lighter" DL can play inside of a 5 tech in a 1 gap front but I think it takes exceptional athletic ability (i.e., speed, strength, position techniques) to effectively do so against "decent" OL talent. IOW, a "smallish" guy can line up full time between the OTs but he has to be good. To that point, the GAs, ALs, tOSUs, Clemsons and a few others always do better than the rest of us in acquiring those hardest to acquire recruits, i.e., "big men that can run".
And yes, the current "spread the field" offenses have placed even more value on quickness and speed everywhere including your D line.
But back to the point of this thread UK's currently listed DEs are 240# (Ware), 265# (Carter) and 278# (Paschal). Will that get the job done against "average to better than average OLs"? IDK, but other than Paschal that seems smallish to me. Personally I would love to see some 1s v. 1s spring work but that ain't gonna happen (at least I'm not going to see it
The weights and positions I cited were from the current UKAA 2018 on line roster. Spring practice frequently changes specific positions within the OLs and DLs. As UKSanders suggests I would not be surprised to see an addition or 2 to the current "DE" position.
Peace
I don't disagree with your premise of how small is too small, but that's why I tried to clarify your position groups b/c I think that incorrect information may be skewing your view of UKs DL. Again, look at the guys below, and then ask the same question. Also take into account Paschal had been TRYING to stay below 280, so I think the coaches expect him to be closer to 290 by the fall.
Down Lineman
DE #4 Joshua Paschal 278# (+8 from 2017)
DE #60 Calvin Taylor 300# (-5 from 2017)
DE #90 T.J. Carter 265# (-15# from 2017) ; he has been 280 plus since he began playing, so I wonder if that isn't a typo on the website. If not, it seems a little strange for him to have lost so much weight
DE Davaon Hawkins 250+ as an incoming freshmen - will be surprised if he doesn't bulk up to the 280-290 range
So, with guys at 290, 300, 270, would you still ask the same question?
No issue whatsoever regarding that size for the "DE" position (regardless of where he aligns
). Like I said, I was only going by what was on the UKAA site. It may have errors but even so there will almost certainly be position changes before the first game. FWIW, Paschal does look like one of those "freak" big men that usually sign with the football elite.
Peace
"That's as deep of a collection of athletic pass rushers that I can remember seeing at UK."
Couldn't you say that about almost any position on the field since Stoops (and cohorts) took over recruiting and they got some recruiting facilities not from the dark ages?
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Sort of, but I think the OLBs seem to be above the rest b/c it's the one unit that has major proven playmakers in Ware/Allen with so much apparent talent behind them (Wright, Boogie, Whitaker, Oats).
I think it may stand out more b/c I have seen the Cats with some offensive talent, but to see this much on the D side of the ball is more unusual.
True... after the amazing performance of the defense this past season including sacks/TFLs, my post was a bit prophetic, which is hilarious when you consider how minuscule my football knowledge is.
