Burton will get better, Flax should be DONE. Buford looked WAY better in that spot today. Flax is just TOO SLOW to be effective.
Open Practice
- Thread starter TuckyFB
- Start date
Here are my takes from the practice:
Positives:
1- Dane Key is the best player on offense.....the guy just has vacuum cleaner for hands and his ball skills are impeccable. I can't tell if he has improved blocking but he's the truth as a WR.
2. Deone Walker just eats up the interior run game.....he is top player on D.
3. Lovett is going to be the impact at safety since Mike Edwards. He got the pick today but he's just all over the place and has an edge about him. He's probably the vocal leader of the D.
4. Dee Bechwith can move the pile....He ripped off a few good runs in limited snaps. I won't say he's better than Ray Davis but he is superior to LaVell Wright....easy to see.
5. Dre Phillips is ready to be a starting CB in SEC. Whacked Anthony Brown a good one.
6. UK has great safety talent. Childress, Lovett and Afari....Bufano has done a good job back there
7. Even with windy day....Leary just throws a crisp and accurate ball.
8. Anthony Brown is built and quick....I bet he pushes for more WR balls than we imagine. He looks like a slot WR.
Negatives:
1. We don't look like we can run the ball.....maybe we have a D that is hard to run at....but I just don't see the Oline much better. Cox will be solid probably. But Flax....I just shake my head he's still running 1st team, Burton...I don't know if he's the answer inside. And Yenser has major questions as a teacher.
2. Who is CB2...Hairston was thrown at a good bit
3. We don't have a future QB1 on the roster IMO. Sheron looks like a similar version of Gunner Hoak to me....So Leary needs to play all the games IMO.
4. Chance Poore was all ove the place kicking before the scrimmage.
Positives:
1- Dane Key is the best player on offense.....the guy just has vacuum cleaner for hands and his ball skills are impeccable. I can't tell if he has improved blocking but he's the truth as a WR.
2. Deone Walker just eats up the interior run game.....he is top player on D.
3. Lovett is going to be the impact at safety since Mike Edwards. He got the pick today but he's just all over the place and has an edge about him. He's probably the vocal leader of the D.
4. Dee Bechwith can move the pile....He ripped off a few good runs in limited snaps. I won't say he's better than Ray Davis but he is superior to LaVell Wright....easy to see.
5. Dre Phillips is ready to be a starting CB in SEC. Whacked Anthony Brown a good one.
6. UK has great safety talent. Childress, Lovett and Afari....Bufano has done a good job back there
7. Even with windy day....Leary just throws a crisp and accurate ball.
8. Anthony Brown is built and quick....I bet he pushes for more WR balls than we imagine. He looks like a slot WR.
Negatives:
1. We don't look like we can run the ball.....maybe we have a D that is hard to run at....but I just don't see the Oline much better. Cox will be solid probably. But Flax....I just shake my head he's still running 1st team, Burton...I don't know if he's the answer inside. And Yenser has major questions as a teacher.
2. Who is CB2...Hairston was thrown at a good bit
3. We don't have a future QB1 on the roster IMO. Sheron looks like a similar version of Gunner Hoak to me....So Leary needs to play all the games IMO.
4. Chance Poore was all ove the place kicking before the scrimmage.
Beckwith is a very intriguing RB, we haven't had someone in the backfield with basically TE size & height before
I don't know if he caught that TD pass yesterday out of the backfield or from a slot position? Anyone?
He looked good.
Decent arm strength and accurate.
Our DB’s had a good day, though, as there was never any real separation by the receivers.
He did catch rhe TD. It was a play that he was flanked to the side of Qb and it was where all the receivers ran in routes to that same side and cleared out for an easy throw and catch
Can’t take much I would assume if the wind was like what it was up here. Of course the open practice was on a day of tornado-like winds.
I feel like he was constantly falling down last year. Bad feet/weak lower body/ bad coaching.
Hard to get a great read on passing with 40MPH winds but leary looks confident and I have no worries there.....but folks.....let me tell you....physically this defense looks incredible, and at all three levels. Who is #28 that was running as first string corner back? Sheesh he looked to be every bit of 6'4 and over 200lbs.
I think the hope was Skank's scheme was so complicated that the line didn't know who to block and that Coen's scheme will be much easier to learn. But the OL last year was beyond awful so I don't know if you can lay all the blame at Skank. Yenser's lines were awful at KU also.
Sounds like Jordan Robinson, who RS last year after transferring from a small college. Came in very raw but has the physical tools to be a good one down the road.
Man…we threw away last year good defense and Levi’s last year
If we screw another season of really good D and Leary with this Wr core with Coen back and the Oline messes it all up….going to be pissed
Yenser does not look like he can coach. I hope Liam knows what he’s doing keeping Yenser
Or finishing the play standing, looking back at the guy that just ran past him or that he ran past making the tackle.
Jager wasn't ready last year either. For whatever reason, this staff is going to roll him out there one way or another. I get it but I don't get it. We'll see if he holds that spot all year.
I was surprised to hear he was so effective in the scrimmage. Last year he ran high and looked really tight
Given the "one and done" recent history of UK basketball, some of our fans have become excessively impatient in labeling our football players. In college football, time in the gym and accrual of playing experience typically make a big difference. In the case of offensive linemen, getting stronger and learning the proper way to use hands and feet require several years of development. These guys succeeded in hs because they were so much larger than everyone else. In college, they have to learn new nuances of their craft under competitive conditions. For these reasons, fans who have given up on Flax and Burton are just showing their level of college football comprehension. These same fans are usually hypnotized with star ratings. Well, Flax, Burton, and Bowles were 4 stars.
In Flax's case, 2022 was his first season of extensive play. Flax has the desired strength and length, but is still learning nuances of footwork and pad level on the edge of the offense. It may or may not happen, but we should be able to expect significant improvement by Flax in his second season as a starter, if he actually is the 2023 starter (remains to be seen). These skills typically take time to master. We could still see one more inbound transfer at RT.
In Burton's case, he was forced into extensive action a year earlier than the coaches preferred because Horsey had to be moved outside. Since last year, Burton has added about 12# of good weight. Our coaches say he is our most athletic offensive lineman. The move inside to C is a wildcard, but Coach Coen sees something there. I believe Burton will eventually be an outstanding SEC football player, but I can't guarantee the timeline.
I still don't believe Dee Beckwith is an SEC RB. He got into the late part of the scrimmage because Coen was only using McClain and Wright that day. Beckwith is built like Khamari Anderson. There is a good reason we don't see 6'5" RBs. A spread offense is especially ill-suited for a 6'5" RB. Tall RBs can't run low enough in traffic. One March scrimmage doesn't change the history of offensive football. Beckwith should have been an edge defender but doesn't want to play defense. As an offensive player, he is a receiver. We don't have enough tall receivers.
In Flax's case, 2022 was his first season of extensive play. Flax has the desired strength and length, but is still learning nuances of footwork and pad level on the edge of the offense. It may or may not happen, but we should be able to expect significant improvement by Flax in his second season as a starter, if he actually is the 2023 starter (remains to be seen). These skills typically take time to master. We could still see one more inbound transfer at RT.
In Burton's case, he was forced into extensive action a year earlier than the coaches preferred because Horsey had to be moved outside. Since last year, Burton has added about 12# of good weight. Our coaches say he is our most athletic offensive lineman. The move inside to C is a wildcard, but Coach Coen sees something there. I believe Burton will eventually be an outstanding SEC football player, but I can't guarantee the timeline.
I still don't believe Dee Beckwith is an SEC RB. He got into the late part of the scrimmage because Coen was only using McClain and Wright that day. Beckwith is built like Khamari Anderson. There is a good reason we don't see 6'5" RBs. A spread offense is especially ill-suited for a 6'5" RB. Tall RBs can't run low enough in traffic. One March scrimmage doesn't change the history of offensive football. Beckwith should have been an edge defender but doesn't want to play defense. As an offensive player, he is a receiver. We don't have enough tall receivers.
I think other than the starter , they rotate the other qbs position to equal out reps.
Man...it isn't impatient to see a RS Jr in Flax to be solid in 2022....and he was terrible. Heck, he was slated to be starting RT in 2021 and then Rosenthal falls into our laps. We got an extra year to develop Flax and he still bombed.
Spring is a tiny sample size....so we'll see how it plays out. But to see him running out there again as starter and we struggle again to run the ball in this one spring game....just feels like dejavu. Moving Horsey to guard had us with bad guard play and poor tackle play. Not a good idea in retropsect by Yenser/Scang/Stoops.
I still don't get Yenser and his decision making last year we poor. But there is zero excuse as Horsey and Cox are back at guards....which they were good players in 2021. Marques Cox in a natural LT and we go lucky to get him. So 3 of the 5 Oline spots have no reason to not be good prduction. And it boils down to Burton and Flax who were both far and away the bottom two players last year. Are we going to repeat it another year? We'll get to see.
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Re OL, Goodwin's flopping clearly hurt. Nik Hall missing ST hurts, Bingham will hopefully will step up soon. True freshman OC Keenum with shout-out today.
As for Beckwith....don't expect much from him. Apparently had a nice run Sat as well as uncontested TD on last play of scrimmage but those were against 3rd/4th teamers. Pretty good athlete with no position, anything they can get from him would be gravy.
As for Beckwith....don't expect much from him. Apparently had a nice run Sat as well as uncontested TD on last play of scrimmage but those were against 3rd/4th teamers. Pretty good athlete with no position, anything they can get from him would be gravy.
For reasons already discussed, I disagree. As already explained, it is common for a college football player to show improvement in his second year as a starter. Often, our fans seem to rule out a reasonable likelihood of offseason improvement, but that is not realistic thinking. I am not debating Flax's 2022 performance here. I am saying our fans should not assume Flax will not improve. Most likely, he will, for reasons given. He has strength and length. His footwork and leverage need to improve, but that is why we have coaches. But we can also expect Coach Stoops to look at the portal in May with the possibility that he might bring in one more OT to stiffen the competition in August. IMO, if they don't take one more transfer, it either means that they are satisfied with Flax's spring improvent or else that they can't find the right guy in the portal. If the latter, we still have Deonte Buford, Nik Hall, and Josh Jones, all three of whom had impressive offer sheets. I don't think all those coaching staffs were wrong. Our OL will improve next fall. How much? IDK. But there will be improvement.
No starter has been named at RT. The only sure things (barring injury) are that Marques Cox and Kenneth Horsey will start on the left side, and Eli Cox will start somewhere.
The opposite is true. Horsey has a history as one of the better LGs in the SEC. So did you mean to say moving Horsey to OT? That was done out of necessity when Buford, Wohlabaugh, and Goodwin couldn't handle the starting LT job last September. lt obviously wasn't the preferred plan. Again, we are not talking here about replaying 2022. The issue is what will happen next fall. In the meantime, I trust our coaches. I discussed why the book is still out on Yenser. But Coen is all over this, and I trust him. He is being paid to move the chains and win games, and he obviously wants to get it done.
Again, you seem to be thinking our players are unlikely to improve. But, as discussed, it is common for college football players to improve in their second season as a starter. Flax and Burton were 4 star signees, and I know from some of your prior comments that you place importance in star ratings. So let's allow everyone to do their jobs and wait until next fall to assess the result. I will say this once more. Yenser is still unproven. I think Yenser needs some positive player development results this year or else it is difficult for me to see how he lasts here. But that doesn't mean it won't happen. Having Coen here makes a difference.
I think in the portal coming up we will add an OL for sure and a receiver and maybe even a #2 QB. Right?
It is being reported on another website that we have 83 full scholarships and 2 more available now under the NCAA's 85 scholarship rule. I haven't counted scholarships in a couple of weeks. I think the 83 count is very close to being correct, but can't vouch if it is exactly right. Even if it is, we know from prior experience that some players always leave the team after spring practice for better playing opportunities elsewhere or sometimes for health reasons. So there will be some scholarships available when the May transfer window opens. My guess would be that Coach Stoops' priority list for May transfers will look something like this, in descending order of recruiting priority-
one ILB
one athletic QB with multiple years of eligibility
one long RT with good footwork
one S
one PK
I don't see the need for another WR. Not that it wouldn't be helpful. It might. But the other positions above are higher priorities, and there are only so many available scholarships. In the long run, I still think Dee Beckwith is a receiver.
Rembrandt90....you're a positive poster and patient fan. But....
1. To argue patient is needed on a RS Jr in Flax who stunk up the joint in 2022 and we need to show more patience in his RS Sr year. I am sorry man. The kid either solidly wins the job or put him on the depth chart and give Buford the run. Buford was better than him in 2022 IMO and he can improve more as he's younger.
2. Yenser made dumb decisions in 2022 to move Horsey to tackle and he wasn't a very good tackle (hell he was a mess in Iowa Citrus bowl in 2021...you had all the tape you needed to make a better decision)...and the guard that replaced him (Burton) was about as bad as Flax. So Yenser's decisions made 2 spots worse. He also moved Eli Cox to C and that wasn't a good move either. Personally, I'm not as down that our players can't improve...I don't think Yenser can coach very well. We still couldn't handle a simple DE/DT twist at end of last year. That is not the most complex Oline pickup and MAC teams were embarrassing us and he never was able to coach the scheme up very well.
The decision to play around with this outside zone scheme for yet another year is very iffy decision making IMO. This is as much Coen as anybody. You have to trust Coen but if Yenser puts out a poor OLine with 3 4 Srs and a So in the starting 5.....this is make or break for Yenser. Also, no mention of rotating Oline like we've heard all talk no walk from Yenser.
That spring practice from the Oline was bad. I'll give you Deonne Walker is stud. But Trybka and Hayes are probably not NFL dudes and we couldn't move the LOS for crap.
I don’t think Yenser had a choice. The lesser of all evils seemed to be to bite the bullet and move Horsey there.
We don’t have insight into daily personnel nuances, but it may be telling that Stoops retained Yenser.
Don't think you can put moving Horsey on Yenser, probably had no choice. I imagine coaches met, question was raised: "Who's the best OL?" Answer was Horsey and he was moved. Fully expect they knew it was a longshot but somebody had to fill in.
As for Trybka/Hayes....they don't have to be "NFL dudes." Just be good college players and hopefully with OO, Saunders, Dinkins and maybe Silver they can make plays and win games.
He's saying Flax should see improvement, but how significant remains to be seen. And the outside zone, Coen used it effectively a few games when he was here. It's not like it was entirely scrapped his first year here. Some games it will be there, some it won't
Again, a starter has not been named. Someone must win the starting job. It won't just be given. That will happen next August. Meanwhile, to argue against patience is just not realistic. Coach Coen knows what he is doing.
I remember things differently. Burton, a former 4 star with an incredible offer sheet, was a redshirt freshman who was not in their original plans for 2022. They wanted Burton to have another year of development. But after Buford, Wohlabaugh, and Goodwin failed to win the starting LT job, Yenser was out of options and was forced to move Horsey outside. You call that "dumb". I have already told you that I am not all the way sold on Yenser yet. But with you arguing against patience here and calling our coach dumb, I just simply don't agree with your spring conclusions. Don't worry. I could be wrong. We won't know that until next fall.
You could be right about Yenser. I am not ready to pass judgment because I am more patient, but I am not sold either. Being patient allows me to see more data points. You and I don't have access to all the information our coaches have.
You are making this too mechanical and simplistic. There are certain players who usually win their matchups. IA's and GA's defenses were among the best in the country. BTW nobody else played GA as tough as we did. We dominated UL in the trenches. But, again, I already said 2022 was an outlier season for the BBW and that horse is out of the barn now. The issue here is how much our OL will improve in 2023. You sound like you have already formed your conclusion about 2023 largely based on one open practice in March. I have not yet formed any conclusions about 2023, but I trust Coach Coen. There, you and I simply disagree.
Over a long time, I have learned that football players tend to improve with experience and development. I trust our coaching staff. I understand how the game of football is taught and schemed, but it is not in my nature to expect poor outcomes and worry about things that aren't written in stone. Mark Stoops has done a historically outstanding job here, and I look for improvement in 2023. I might be wrong. I have given the matter a good deal of thought, but there are still some unknowns. So we shall see.
Over the last 5 seasons, I recall UK's football team went 40-23 and produced a handful of All Americans. Statistically UK has one of the best defenses in the country and was #2 in the SEC in total defense in 2022. Coach Coen is back. We have a new special teams coach. Devin Leary was the consensus #1 QB in the portal. Our 2022 recruiting class was the best in school history. So I have no problem believing that 2023 will be a positive, improved season for UK football. That's what the evidence is telling me. If others disagree, they can believe what they prefer. But we don't have to keep kicking a dead horse here. The demonstrable facts are what they are, guys. Football is a team sport, and we have a good football team.
Based on Coen's comments today Sheron is #2 QB, and it isn't close
I said it was dumb to play Horsey at tackle before last season as it hurt two spots….and given Horsey was poor at tackle in citrus bowl the year before …..turned out to be true. And moving cox around was also proven to be a bad idea. Did you think Buford was better then Flax last year?
Saying a simple Dline twist from Youngstown state is overly simplistic to judge….it’s ok to say Yenser stunk it up last year…..that wasn’t the 85 bears we faced …those were bad defenses and Yenser was a dear in headlights
Yenser was awful last year and we already have flax up and running first team again. I get all spots are not final until September….but when we get a depth chart post spring…..it’s a pretty good sign of where things are trending
I’m going to let off the Yenser stuff until game one….but if ray Davis is averaging 3 yards a carry after we play rhr non conference teams…the season will be a wash
He is, in fact, listed at 6’ 4”, and 202 pounds.
Have we found another tall, rangy corner in the mold of Chris Westry, etc., etc.?
I just listened to Coen’s press conference.
Asked what group he was most impressed with, he said, “Jagger Burton,” then mentioned Cox, Horsey and the tackle transfer.
He was actually upbeat on the O-line, saying that many of the short gains were QB’s running TB’s into “bad boxes.”
We don’t have any other CB’s with his size but Stoops likes the bigger CB’s because we play so much zone and it’s obviously harder for QB’s to throw overtop the zone with taller DB’s. Plus the bigger CB’s don’t have to be as shifty or fast if they’re not playing a lot of man to man coverage.
