Official Steph Curry is GOAT thread
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To be GOAT, a player has to be elite at both ends of the court. Stephen Curry isn't an elite defender like all the other names in the GOAT discussion.
The thread title needs to be changed. Curry isn't and never will be, even IN the GOAT conversation.
He may go down as the greatest shooter of all time, sure. But we all know Golden State is facing a wealth redistribution. It will be interesting to see if he's ever stuck on a middling team where he actually has to do more than iso a bit and then shoot jumpers.
5-6 in the last 11 games. Durant goes down in the 2nd half and you mean to tell me Curry and 3 other all-stars can't beat the Suns, one of NBA's worst teams, at home? Not my GOAT.
I think it might be time to revive this thread; I just can't help but post about Steph's greatness. He had a 53 point night; in the last three FULL quarters (3rd quarter of Houston game and the 1st and 3rd quarters of tonight's game against Denver), he had 62 points on 27 shots (!). He had seven (and counting) consecutive 30-point nights, often shooting over 60%, and is the Warriors' all-time leading scorer, and he did it in Steph-like fashion (needed 19 points, and got 21 in the first quarter). Steph is getting better; I know it's hard to believe. Even Jordan couldn't touch this level of offensive greatness. This is his third 53+ point night this year. Additionally, he had his fourth 30-point half; his 10th 25-point half, and is playing as well as he ever has. Unfortunately, the rest of his team is trash, so he won't win MVP, but he should be almost unanimous MVP (Lebron's out, Jokic got owned tonight, Giannis is OK, Doncic is far less efficient that Steph, and the list goes on and on). I don't worship Steph, but this is a basketball board. Steph is gonna be up there with Gretzky, Brady, Babe Ruth, Jordan, and Tiger. Like with Brady, we need to cherish this greatness because we won't see this again once Steph retires.
The Steph pain train goes to OKC on Wednesday, and I can't wait to see him drop about 60 on Cleveland. Sorry, LineSki.
The Steph pain train goes to OKC on Wednesday, and I can't wait to see him drop about 60 on Cleveland. Sorry, LineSki.
Jordan didn’t play in a soft ass league. He would have absolutely crushed it offensively even more than he did against people that were trying to decapitate him.
With that being said I’m a big steph fan and he is fun as hell to watch. I hope Klay comes back healthy and they look like the splash bros again
With that being said I’m a big steph fan and he is fun as hell to watch. I hope Klay comes back healthy and they look like the splash bros again
Curry is not an elite defender. The GOAT must be outstanding on both ends of the floor like Jordan or James. The Warriors have a losing record this year even though they have a fair amount of talent (Greene, Wiggins, Wiseman, Oubre) around Curry. He is NOT the GOAT.
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He's definitely attempting to put the team on his back, that's for sure. I've been impressed this season.
.. but they're the 10th seed.. and his team isn't ALL that bad. He still has Draymond Green, Still has Oubre, Still has (had) the #2 pick. And the West isn't what it once was.. where 10th means 6th in the East.
All the more proof that what James Harden did was TRULY special. DURING his poor defensive years, he STILL took a far worse team to a 3rd in the WCF in 2016-17... added CP3 and still took a so-so team to 65 wins.. did it again for 50+ wins... replaced CP3 with Westbrook (another guard that was kind of a redundant add) still got his team to 4th.
.. but they're the 10th seed.. and his team isn't ALL that bad. He still has Draymond Green, Still has Oubre, Still has (had) the #2 pick. And the West isn't what it once was.. where 10th means 6th in the East.
All the more proof that what James Harden did was TRULY special. DURING his poor defensive years, he STILL took a far worse team to a 3rd in the WCF in 2016-17... added CP3 and still took a so-so team to 65 wins.. did it again for 50+ wins... replaced CP3 with Westbrook (another guard that was kind of a redundant add) still got his team to 4th.
And this deserves it's own post:
Curry is not, nor ever will be the GOAT. This season is proving that while he's a great talent, he needs pieces around him.. and a lot of them.. to win.
How the hell can we even say that 10th place Steph has surpassed Lebron on the GOAT list in the last two years? How?
Curry is not, nor ever will be the GOAT. This season is proving that while he's a great talent, he needs pieces around him.. and a lot of them.. to win.
How the hell can we even say that 10th place Steph has surpassed Lebron on the GOAT list in the last two years? How?
Steph isn't even top 5 in the league right now. somewhere 6-10 maybe. If you were starting a team right now you could name a number of players you would take over him.
No way Steph could put the team LeBron had in his first Cavs championship appearance on his shoulders and take them to the championship series. No way.
I have to respectfully disagree. Who would you put above Steph other than maybe Lebron (when he feels like playing)?
Jordan, LeBron and Kobe are all better than Curry as GOAT. That is just in the 3 point era. Curry is an average defender where as Jordan, Kobe and LeBron were elite defenders.
Lebron, Harden, Durant, Embiid, Giannis, Kawhi, A.D.
Steph is a great shooter, a really good point guard. He was never clutch in the championship runs. Iguodala hit the big shots. The last 5 minutes of game 7 against Lebron, the year Golden State lost, Steph was completely absent. Then came K.D, He has basically a negative effect on the defensive end.
I would put him right after those guys which still isn't bad. Bring up injuries with some of these but he is just as fragile. Harden does the same things except in a much bigger frame and is better getting to the rim. Luka isn't far from passing him up on this list either.
When who feels like playing, exactly? I hope that's not aimed at Lebron who is on his 18th season, coming off the bubble. You realize he only missed ONE game this season before his injury a few weeks ago?
The big one for me is Harden. There was a debate in recent years because Harden had the stats but Curry had the hardware... an argument I never liked (rings). Always felt that Harden was better, and this year proves it. Harden gets his team, still puts up 25/12/9, tied for 1st in the East (Nets also had their season long injuries), 2nd on MVP list. Curry's 1st full season with a mediocre-to-subpar team, and while he scores 30 points, he does nothing else extremely well, and his team is 10th. Tells me everything I need to know. Curry is a better shooter, Harden is better at literally everything else.
AND he fancies slapping asses at the strip clubs, while Curry is at home making cooking shows with that solid 4, Ayesha. Harden all day.
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Do you really think Lebron goes all out all the time? He might be playing, but he plays at like 60% effort unless it's a big game or if it's the playoffs. Harden is no where near as efficient as Steph is. Harden gets calls that Steph does not get. I mean, who likes watching a guy go 5-20 from the three, or 1-17 from the three, but gets 20-25 free-throws to make it look like he had a great game? If Steph got to shoot as much as Harden did, he might average 40 per game (Harden isn't shooting as much now, since they have the superteam). As far as Harden being better than Steph at "literally everything other than shooting", I strongly disagree.
Shooting: Steph >>>>>> Harden
Passing: Steph >> Harden
Rebounding: Push, but slight edge to Harden
Finishing at the rim: Push - slight edge to Steph
Leadership: Steph >>>>>>>>>>>>> Harden
Defense: Steph > Harden
Head to Head in the Playoffs: Steph 4, Harden 0 (Steph has knocked out Harden 4 of the last six playoffs - In 2017, Rockets lose by 39 at home to the Kawhi-less Spurs in Game 6, and in 2020, Rockets lose in five to Lakers).
Steph owns Harden in every facet other than triple-doubles (but Westbrook does that too, so......)
Harden's supporting cast when he was with Rockets > Steph's supporting cast. Harden whined and cried and got out. In 2018, when he had homecourt, they shot 7-44 from three (Game Seven), while Steph hit seven threes in one-third the attempts. In 2019, Durant was hurt and Steph stole his soul in the fourth quarter (Game six). Steph is gonna win the play-in and will win at least two games in the main playoff round. You know that someone's great when you are disappointed with "just" a 35-point game. Put some respect on Steph's name!
And as far as slapping butts: Steph is a family man who cares about the well-being of his wife and children. Steph could pull in a "10" if he wanted to, but he has some degree of integrity; I'm not saying Harden doesn't, but saying that Steph is doing cooking shows with a "solid 4" is disingenuous at best.
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Lebron (maybe), Harden (far less efficient shooter, hunts stats, chokes in the playoffs, gets destroyed by Steph everytime they meet in the playoffs), Durant (maybe, but is he after the Achilles' injury?), Embiid (Is he doing what Steph is doing? He's good, but I wouldn't rank him above Steph), Giannis (should put up big numbers, chokes when it matters), Kawhi (maybe so, but I still put Steph above him; Kawhi could be the best in the league, but I don't think he had that personality), AD (seriously? I know he played for UK, but it's hard to be great when you play 50% of the time). Luka (Steph is a better shooter, turns it over less, and is a better defensive player). I'm surprised that you didn't throw Dame and Booker in here (although I still think Steph is better than any of them).
lmfao.
Why should Lebron be wasting 100% of his energy on meaningless games in April? The dude has played 18 seasons, and is the best in the world.. you don't play for April when you're Lebron, you play for the finals.
The calls lol. Acting like Steph doesn't get star treatment. It's been said and explained many times, Harden's stepback/gather step is completely legal. He knows how to draw contact. Despite all that, take a look at how far his FTA drop in the playoffs compared to his elite peers. He clearly doesn't get the same calls in the playoffs, and the argument can be made Harden's game is completely hamstrung by the way the officials officiate in the playoffs.
Supporting cast? It was CP3 and Westbrook (not even at the same time).. two guys that more or less play the same position. They were redundant and desperation adds to keep up with GSW's super team. Clint Capela, Ryan Anderson, Eric Gordon? Please. Harden never had guys like Klay or Dray, who were perfect compliment pieces for a pure-shooter like Curry, nor did he have the insane bench of Iggy, Lee, Livingston, etc. And don't even get me started with skirting the salary cap to grab Kevin Durant. Look where Houston is without Harden.. They've set franchise and NBA records for consecutive losses and are a half game out of dead-last.
You're quoting Curry's media remarks about being "disappointed" with 35 points? lol. Is that you, Ayesha?
Harden is going for MVP, Curry is 10th in the West.. it's that simple.
I added some to my post earlier, but you seem to be chomping at the bit with all of the Curry hate (but I don't win any prizes either). I was alluding to the supporting casts this year. Did you know that when Curry was out, the Warriors had one of the worst records in the league? Likely for the same reason that the Rockets are terrible. I don't get the infatuation with Harden.
I added this:
As far as Harden being better than Steph at "literally everything other than shooting", I strongly disagree.
Shooting: Steph >>>>>> Harden
Passing: Steph >> Harden
Rebounding: Push, but slight edge to Harden
Finishing at the rim: Push - slight edge to Steph
Leadership: Steph >>>>>>>>>>>>> Harden
Defense: Steph > Harden
Head to Head in the Playoffs: Steph 4, Harden 0 (Steph has knocked out Harden 4 of the last six playoffs - In 2017, Rockets lose by 39 at home to the Kawhi-less Spurs in Game 6, and in 2020, Rockets lose in five to Lakers).
Steph owns Harden in every facet other than triple-doubles (but Westbrook does that too, so......)
And this was my response to the "solid 4" comment:
And as far as slapping butts: Steph is a family man who cares about the well-being of his wife and children. Steph could pull in a "10" if he wanted to, but he has some degree of integrity; I'm not saying Harden doesn't, but saying that Steph is doing cooking shows with a "solid 4" is disingenuous at best.
Why do you hate Steph Curry so much? And if I were Ayesha, I wouldn't be on here........
I saw Curry, LeBron, and Durant all go at it in the NBA Finals. LeBron and Durant were clearly the best players on the court. Curry wasn't at that level.
Steph is the greatest shooter I've ever seen and probably will go down as the greatest shooter in NBA history, but he's not the overall player those guys are or obviously many of the other all time greats.
Steph is the greatest shooter I've ever seen and probably will go down as the greatest shooter in NBA history, but he's not the overall player those guys are or obviously many of the other all time greats.
Curry is not a better passer than Harden. Harden led the league in assists one year and has three years where he averaged over 10 assists per game. Curry has never gotten close to that.
For his career, Hardin makes 7.5 free throws per game blowing away Curry's average of 3.8. Harden's career scoring average is 25.2 PPG vs. 23.9 for Curry.
Harden is the better career rebounder (5.5 vs. 4.6), shot blocker (0.5/game vs. 0.2) and steals are very close (1.6/game vs. 1.7/game). So I am not sure who is the better defender. Neither player has made the all defensive team in their careers.
I think that Curry is the better player but it is much closer than you presented.
Draymond is useless as a shooter/scorer, Wiggins is all stats no impact, Wiseman is a somewhat raw rookie, Oubre is an average player.
But Draymond and company fit Curry extremely well.. especially Klay, even though we can't count him because he's been out for a while. Curry has great complimentary pieces that worked together.
It does seem Draymond has been exposed a bit and his better days are behind him.. but when you're a scorer like Curry.. having 3 or 4 of the better-than-average to great defenders helps tremendously.
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Literally Colin Cowherd was just singing the defensive praises of the GSW complimentary pieces. Not that Cowherd's word is gospel by any stretch..
They then said how Brooklyn, basically got 1st in the East with Harden, a handful of games from Irving, and no KD.
Curry is the better shooter.. better attitude and leadership (although I want to give Harden some time to distance himself from HOU).. but Harden is the better overall player. He IS the better passer, rebounder, finisher, defender, and just overall scorer. We're seeing it as we speak.
They then said how Brooklyn, basically got 1st in the East with Harden, a handful of games from Irving, and no KD.
Curry is the better shooter.. better attitude and leadership (although I want to give Harden some time to distance himself from HOU).. but Harden is the better overall player. He IS the better passer, rebounder, finisher, defender, and just overall scorer. We're seeing it as we speak.
There are like three good teams in the East though. And Joe Harris would the second best player on the Warriors. Wiggins was the #1 or #2 player his entire career with the TWolves and they were always trash no matter how good he was individually.
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Still a lot better of a conference than what it was since the 2000's. And it's not like Brooklyn didn't get to 1st place by only playing teams in the East. They are one of the top3-4 teams, unquestionably.. and can likely make a case for #1, IF they can get one of their other big 3 to actually play.
I'm more talking about Hardens teams when he was with Houston, not Brooklyn. Of course the Nets have more talent than GSW. As for Wiggins, he has improved a good deal since leaving the Twolves. His averages are done, but his defense is much better and so is shot selection and percentages.
You are pretty harsh in your evaluation of a three time All Star (Green) and two guys chosen as the second overall picks in their draft years (Wiggins and Wiseman). Wiggins has been good for 18-20 PPG over most of his career and is chipping in a block and a steal per contest this year. I don't see how that is not impactful. It is not like he is just generating stats in garbage time.
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Curry isn't the GOAT, nor will he even end up in the top 10. But this is honestly one of the most ridiculous, asinine posts I've ever seen since I've been posting here over 20 years.
There's absolutely no way you actually watch Steph Curry play and think his game is "iso a bit and then shoot jumpers." You are an absolute dumbass and should be banned forever.
Lol ban me.
Not a top finisher. Poor defender. Not a great rebounder. Decent passer.
His game is predicated on the 3. He's quite the one dimensional player for someone even being mentioned in the GOAT category.. dumbass.
If Wiggins is so good, why were the Twolves always trash with him as one of their two best players? The only decent year they had was when Jimmy Butler dragged them to a winning season. Every other year they never once finished within 10 games of .500 nor higher than 11th in the West. The best year he had statistically was 2017, they won 31 games. For his career, his teams are 2.4 points per 100 possessions worse with him on the court and 1.9 points better per 100 possessions with him off the court.
And Draymond hasn’t been an all-star in three years.
LineSki, this has to be some of the craziest things I have read on this board. I know you hate Steph; I have no idea why, but you admitted to hating him. You lost all creditability when you referred to him as a "one-dimensional player". Steph isn't an amazing defender, but don't tell me that Harden is and Steph isn't. Steph did lead the league in steals (I don't use stats to determine who is better, but someone else did, so hey, why not?). Steph is a better ball-handler; he's a better passer (Harden's usage rate is like 95%), and shoots like 75% in the paint. He shoots over 50% inside the three-point line. Does Harden do that?
I think they are a bad organization though. Is it possible they've been the worst drafting team this century? Certainly since the Ricky Rubio 3-guard draft debacle. They never seem to have a decent starting 5. I also don't know what to make of KAT. He does seem like a guy who might not have a championship mentality.
Not being an all-star doesn't mean you're bad tho. GSW is not a good team, for sure. But I dont think they are bas as what someone made them out to be. Take away every teams top player.. (because we are comparing supporting roles).. there's still a good deal of teams with less talent than GSW. It's not like Curry has no one around him to work with. Great players get it done sub par teams. Curry hasnt.. and tbats kind of to my point that he's one dimensional.
You didn't address the part where you said Curry was literally better than Harden in every category except almost-a-tie on one.
Perfect. We can go back to 5 minutes ago. What a quickie.
Curry's best three season averages for assists per game are 8.5, 7.7 and 6.9. Harden's are 11.2, 11.0 and 10.4. Harden is the superior passer and its not a close call.
What now? Another 11 threes for Steph; another 25 point quarter. He got 42 points on 14-20 shooting and 11-16 threes (including six straight threes) in three quarters! That's 29-49 from the three in the last three games. I know OKC is tanking (If I didn't know SGA, I would be hard-pressed to name three players on OKC's active roster), and didn't play any defense, but Steph is on a roll that we've never seen before. I have to ask, will he get to 50-45-90? Cleveland is another bad defensive team; he might get 60 if the game is close enough. What's Harden doing?
Harden's injured you dummy. And despite that, he's still 2nd in MVP voting.
Curry's night tonight proves everything I've been saying.. He's one of the greatest shooters of all time.. and yet, still kind of a one-dimensional player. He didn't get his first FT until late in the 3rd quarter, and what was it.. like 75% of his points were from 3's? And not for nothing, did you see Draymond's stat line? A 16 assist triple double on 50% shooting with 3 steals and 2 blocks.. Pretty good for such a washed up player.
No one is saying he isn't a great player. He's just not the GOAT, nor is he even near it.
Also, I would think Curry might rest tomorrow, as he has done quite often as of late, plus with a game like this, which was one for the books, a player might be given the day. On the other hand.. still need to win for the playoffs. But it's no given that Curry plays tomorrow.
Curry's night tonight proves everything I've been saying.. He's one of the greatest shooters of all time.. and yet, still kind of a one-dimensional player. He didn't get his first FT until late in the 3rd quarter, and what was it.. like 75% of his points were from 3's? And not for nothing, did you see Draymond's stat line? A 16 assist triple double on 50% shooting with 3 steals and 2 blocks.. Pretty good for such a washed up player.
No one is saying he isn't a great player. He's just not the GOAT, nor is he even near it.
Also, I would think Curry might rest tomorrow, as he has done quite often as of late, plus with a game like this, which was one for the books, a player might be given the day. On the other hand.. still need to win for the playoffs. But it's no given that Curry plays tomorrow.
He's playing tomorrow; they need all the wins they can get. He probably should have sat out tonight if he was going to, as I literally had zero idea who played for OKC until I looked at the boxscore. Cleveland will probably throw the game, so I look for Curry to have his THIRD STRAIGHT double-digit three game, and another 40 point (he's gonna get 60) night. Murray had 50 points with no free-throws (only time in NBA history) on 21-25 shooting, and Gary Trent Jr dropped 44 on 17-19 in Cleveland. Imagine the GOAT shooter. I was hoping that this game was closer; I was looking for a broken record (still needed four threes, but with the way he was shooting and the way OKC was guarding (not at all), why not?). The only three players that I knew played for OKC, Horford, SGA, and Dort - all three sat out tonight's game. Steph deserves MVP, but his team is worse than Lebron's in 2007. Steph could average about 5.5-6 threes per game when it's all said and done this year. MVP indeed.
He does not deserve MVP right now, and saying such things shows just as much bias you have FOR Curry as what I may have against him. Players that don't make the playoffs don't win MVP, nor should they. Only happened once.
They are not worse than either of the 2007 Cleveland years, starting or finishing that year. Again, this is a lunatic statement that's clearly coming from a biased Curry fanboy. By the way, both those Cavs teams made the playoffs, 2nd and 6th seed. (edit, due to Lebron. The team without Lebron was substantially worse than this GSW team without Curry. The difference? Lebron)
I do think if Curry can keep this going AND get his team on a playoff run, he could win MVP. I also think Curry was on his way to breaking records tonight.
I also know that the OKC team on the floor tonight would probably be one of the worst rosters in recent years. They are the 5th worst team in the NBA that DIDN'T have it's top 3 players. That's a bad team. You can say Curry only played 3 quarters.. but he likely doesn't have those 3 quarters and a 40pt lead if OKC didn't have scrubs tonight.
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