No one talking about the UHC CEO murder?

[cole854]

This a dangerous train of thought to follow to its logical end. It would allow healthcare claims to be denied for anyone except for the people who live a 100% healthy lifestyle. A few pounds overweight? Too bad, denied. Don't workout enough? Denied. Smoked back in high school? Denied. Live near a superfund sight? Denied.

People who actually need healthcare should get it, regardless of if their problem is "self induced" because often the reason it's "self induced" has very complicated causes.

You can dissect it any way you feel that fits your agenda, but my statement is fact: Much of our health issues are self induced....not the fault of the insurance company.

I never stated that someone should not be covered, but don't blame the system for prices on your meds if you are obese and continue to live off McD's and Twinkies. Why should Healthy Person A have to pay the same employer premiums as Person B who has numerous health problems that were self induced....obesity, smoker, for example.

 

[gobigblue812]

Luigi Mangione's hard turn from wealth and success to murder suspect

Luigi Nicholas Mangione was apparently living a charmed life: the grandson of a wealthy real estate developer, valedictorian of his elite Baltimore prep school and with degrees from one of the nation’s top private universities.

apnews.com

 

[gobigblue812]

The oddest part to me is why did he shoot him in the back? Did he not have the courage to shoot him face to face?

 

[Glenn's take]

The oddest part to me is why did he shoot him in the back? Did he not have the courage to shoot him face to face?

That's one thing I thought. Had he shot him and put the gun down and waited for the cops I might have had some respect for him.

 

[Irish Beck]

Can we just pin this to the political thread now? It's like a coffee break for the regulars in here.

Say what you want about his politics, motives, etc. People are talking about Healthcare and how we manage it here more than ever. I wish we could have had this conversation without someone being murdered on cold blood but it appears the message got through.

Nothing will come from it, people will go back to their echo chambers and life moves on.

Also, hella lol at blasting someone for getting info from the MSM, but listing X as a source of unbiased information.

Rudd was right, we're all doomed.

 

[WTF Cat]

Wasn't this guy supposed to testify about Congressional insider trading?

Maybe I misheard/misread/misremembered... but that seems like a more likely motive than "claim denied".

Guessing Hillary is involved lol.

 

[cole854]

Can we just pin this to the political thread now? It's like a coffee break for the regulars in here.

Say what you want about his politics, motives, etc. People are talking about Healthcare and how we manage it here more than ever. I wish we could have had this conversation without someone being murdered on cold blood but it appears the message got through.

Nothing will come from it, people will go back to their echo chambers and life moves on.

Also, hella lol at blasting someone for getting info from the MSM, but listing X as a source of unbiased information.

Rudd was right, we're all doomed.

Seems someone wants to take their ball and go home.

 

[Cold Stout Beer]

The oddest part to me is why did he shoot him in the back? Did he not have the courage to shoot him face to face?

Because he's a gutless coward and not a hero like deadbeat Liberals are shamelessly saying? Just a guess.....

 

[RunninRichie]

Came into this thread expecting a good debate on healthcare. Walked away with the same republicans beating their plates about "liberals". Please just put this thread out of its misery.

 

[IkeCat]

+1

 

[AustinTXCat]

I gotta chime in. Sorry.

 

[cole854]

Came into this thread expecting a good debate on healthcare. Walked away with the same republicans beating their plates about "liberals". Please just put this thread out of its misery.

Chin up, Karen....you'll have a chance again in 4 years.

 

[RunninRichie]

Chin up, Karen....you'll have a chance again in 4 years.

No one votes for the libertarian party, so nah.

 

[Hank Camacho]

Political posters ruining non-political threads is a constant problem with The Paddock.

Just because you want to gripe about liberals/MAGA/whatever, doesn't mean anyone else wants to read about it outside of the Political Thread.

 

[Irish Beck]

Seems someone wants to take their ball and go home.

From discussing a murder and potential implications? No. But listening to the same 14 clones drone on about the leftists, liberal pigs, scumbags and everything else under the sun kinda defeats the purpose, no?

People aren't even discussing the topic, but of course you missed that point because you get to sit on your fist reading a bunch of comments you can agree with and devour with glee.

 

[catlanta33]

I'm still not understanding this, it's bad he murdered the guy but it's good the HC discussion is going? Please, and I sincerely hope so, I got that completely wrong, didn't i?

 

[Irish Beck]

I'm still not understanding this, it's bad he murdered the guy but it's good the HC discussion is going? Please, and I sincerely hope so, I got that completely wrong, didn't i?

If you're referring to my post, no, that's not what I said (or not what I intended) . If you weren't referring to me, my bad. What I am saying is that if the guys intention was to start a revolution, he failed wildly. If he wanted people talking collaboratively about their insurance experiences and Healthcare at large, then I suppose it worked but that won't last or mean anything.

Also, there's a million better ways to do that without killing someone especially with his resources.

I was just guessing on his larger motives, because most of this story doesn't make sense. The dude was either crazy, on drugs or thought himself to be some kind of martyr he clearly isn't. Hopefully he rots in jail for the rest of his life.

 

[Hank Camacho]

Luigi's manifesto:

To the Feds, I'll keep this short, because I do respect what you do for our country. To save you a lengthy investigation, I state plainly that I wasn't working with anyone. This was fairly trivial: some elementary social engineering, basic CAD, a lot of patience. The spiral notebook, if present, has some straggling notes and To Do lists that illuminate the gist of it.

My tech is pretty locked down because I work in engineering so probably not much info there. I do apologize for any strife of traumas but it had to be done. Frankly, these parasites simply had it coming. A reminder: the US has the #1 most expensive healthcare system in the world, yet we rank roughly #42 in life expectancy. United is the [indecipherable] largest company in the US by market cap, behind only Apple, Google, Walmart. It has grown and grown, but as our life expectancy?

No the reality is, these [indecipherable] have simply gotten too powerful, and they continue to abuse our country for immense profit because the American public has allwed them to get away with it. Obviously the problem is more complex, but I do not have space, and frankly I do not pretend to be the most qualified person to lay out the full argument. But many have illuminated the corruption and greed (e.g.: Rosenthal, Moore), decades ago and the problems simply remain. It is not an issue of awareness at this point, but clearly power games at play. Evidently I am the first to face it with such brutal honesty.

Exclusive: Luigi's Manifesto

Read the manifesto the media refused to publish

www.kenklippenstein.com

A remarkable amount of intellectual humility for a miscreant who decided that his gripes with a regulated industry justified him becoming a vigilante executioner.

 

[Tskware]

Came into this thread expecting a good debate on healthcare. Walked away with the same republicans beating their plates about "liberals". Please just put this thread out of its misery.

Honestly, the debate has been better than most

 

[catlanta33]

If you're referring to my post, no, that's not what I said (or not what I intended) . If you weren't referring to me, my bad. What I am saying is that if the guys intention was to start a revolution, he failed wildly. If he wanted people talking collaboratively about their insurance experiences and Healthcare at large, then I suppose it worked but that won't last or mean anything.

Also, there's a million better ways to do that without killing someone especially with his resources.

I was just guessing on his larger motives, because most of this story doesn't make sense. The dude was either crazy, on drugs or thought himself to be some kind of martyr he clearly isn't. Hopefully he rots in jail for the rest of his life.

I was saying that in general. I just don't see that he provided any upside benefit to anyone and possibly just made things worse.

 

[Tskware]

I was saying that in general. I just don't see that he provided any upside benefit to anyone and possibly just made things worse.

That seems to be true of a lot of fanatics, they believe they alone have the answer and see their actions as being the solution to huge problems only they can solve or have the guts to resolve

 

[JumperJack]

Came into this thread expecting a good debate on healthcare. Walked away with the same republicans beating their plates about "liberals". Please just put this thread out of its misery.

 

[Bigmikeydelight]

I was saying that in general. I just don't see that he provided any upside benefit to anyone and possibly just made things worse.

He did a terrible thing and forever changed a family. If you want to shine a positive light on this tragedy, it has allowed for more discussion about healthcare and the problems with it. Generally speaking, seems like people on both sides of the spectrum want change.

 

[JumperJack]

Political posters ruining non-political threads is a constant problem with The Paddock.

Just because you want to gripe about liberals/MAGA/whatever, doesn't mean anyone else wants to read about it outside of the Political Thread.

If there’s a lens for discussing this event that’s not political, I’m open to hearing what it is.

I’ve said it for a while: the “take it to the political board” days are over. That’s because politics no longer runs in the background- it dominates most everything.

Moving past that will be quite a challenge in the age of manifestos.

 

[ukcatz12]

He did a terrible thing and forever changed a family.

I’m not saying this to absolve the shooter, but you can say this thing x1000 for the murdered CEO too. Every time his company denied a claim for needed medical care following policies he was ultimately responsible for so United could make more money he changed families for the worse. Sometimes people died, sometimes they suffered while they delayed needed care, sometimes they went bankrupt.

I’m really struggling to see why we’re demonizing the murderer (probably rightfully so) but refuse to even acknowledge that Thompson himself has made profit chasing decisions that have killed many more people.

 

[Bigmikeydelight]

I’m not saying this to absolve the shooter, but you can say this thing x1000 for the murdered CEO too. Every time his company denied a claim for needed medical care following policies he was ultimately responsible for so United could make more money he changed families for the worse. Sometimes people died, sometimes they suffered while they delayed needed care, sometimes they went bankrupt.

I’m really struggling to see why we’re demonizing the murderer (probably rightfully so) but refuse to even acknowledge that Thompson himself has made profit chasing decisions that have killed many more people.

Great point. 40% of bankruptcies are because of medical debt. I’m just glad the talk is happening more broadly and despite a handful here ready to vilify one side, both sides in the real world are engaged and ready to fix this problem.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Well if there was ever a chance to fix the health care/insurance system, now’s the time. Stars will never align like they have now with a perfect combination of right wing populists focused on chronic disease and concepts of a plan to replace Obamacare, coupled with left wing mentally ill focused on assassinating insurance company executives.

Maybe we can at least start with making health insurance fully tax deductible for individuals (not just businesses and self employed) rather than tying insurance to employment during this round of tax reform. He’ll make medical expenses fully deductible with no AGI floor.

(I know that’s not going to happen)

 

[Hank Camacho]

If there’s a lens for discussing this event that’s not political, I’m open to hearing what it is.

Turn off whatever partisan political media you routinely consume for a month and I bet you will find it much easier.

It is almost magic that for political posters every issue, if they actually dig in deep enough, is always the fault of whatever side they oppose. It is annoying for others to read and frankly, intellectually stifling.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

SIAP but you see the gun used was entirely made from a 3D printer, using a template/blueprint that is widely available to be used? Effectively making gun bans and restrictions in 2024 almost entirely useless?

Some anti-gun person just dropped to their knees in a Whole Foods..

 

[hmt5000]

Dude killed the insurance guy because his dr botched his surgery. There is the headline. I heard that surgery has a 90% fail rate. Dr's need to be taught better and we need better standards of care. Something just isn't the same as when I was a kid or in my 20's. Going to the hospital used to be pretty simple and the dr's seemed really competent.

 

[hmt5000]

Years ago my sister got Lasik surgery for $2200/eye. I got mine done a year later for $1500/eye. Last I saw they were doing that surgery for $650/eye. No insurance involved.

Or look at veterinarians... They can do pretty wild surgeries for less than $10K yet the surgery on a human would be over $60k minimum.

I do believe AI will do it's largest benefit in health and medicine.

 

[hmt5000]

Can we just pin this to the political thread now? It's like a coffee break for the regulars in here.

Say what you want about his politics, motives, etc. People are talking about Healthcare and how we manage it here more than ever. I wish we could have had this conversation without someone being murdered on cold blood but it appears the message got through.

Nothing will come from it, people will go back to their echo chambers and life moves on.

Also, hella lol at blasting someone for getting info from the MSM, but listing X as a source of unbiased information.

Rudd was right, we're all doomed.

The thread is about the murder....

 

[WTF Cat]

View embedded media

Dude killed the insurance guy because his dr botched his surgery. There is the headline.

If true, then no politics, no other issues to be discussed... liberals just lost their hero: just straight up murder.

Should get the death penalty, quick and simple.

 

[hmt5000]

If there’s a lens for discussing this event that’s not political, I’m open to hearing what it is.

I’ve said it for a while: the “take it to the political board” days are over. That’s because politics no longer runs in the background- it dominates most everything.

Moving past that will be quite a challenge in the age of manifestos.

Plus ignoring the why isn't going to help solve the what. People burying their heads in the sand will appear shocked when this keeps happening more and more.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

View embedded media

Dude killed the insurance guy because his dr botched his surgery. There is the headline. I heard that surgery has a 90% fail rate. Dr's need to be taught better and we need better standards of care. Something just isn't the same as when I was a kid or in my 20's. Going to the hospital used to be pretty simple and the dr's seemed really competent.

I think COVID (not the disease it self, but what it did to society) has done damage in ways that we will never fully know or realize. One of the many examples is that aging doctors just up and retired in droves when COVID hit, to what some say might be 1 in every 5... either because they didn't want to get sick, or had a "dose of realty" that it was time to enjoy life and family. You simply can't lose 20% of doctors during a time when healthcare has been expanded to millions.

Can anyone here actually say that going to see a doctor, whether it's your PCP or a specialist, is easier/quicker now than it was in 2018? or in 2008?

 

[hmt5000]

I’m not saying this to absolve the shooter, but you can say this thing x1000 for the murdered CEO too. Every time his company denied a claim for needed medical care following policies he was ultimately responsible for so United could make more money he changed families for the worse. Sometimes people died, sometimes they suffered while they delayed needed care, sometimes they went bankrupt.

I’m really struggling to see why we’re demonizing the murderer (probably rightfully so) but refuse to even acknowledge that Thompson himself has made profit chasing decisions that have killed many more people.

I get what you're saying but now do people in government... Look at Fauci alone. How many deaths from aids was Fauci responsible for and he just kept on keeping on. My biggest WTF is how people don't even know anything about the CEO but assume all this evil just because of his job title. I don't know either but maybe he was trying to work on ways to cover as much as possibe without going bankrupt?? Before we cheer a murder I'd like to at least see some emails or public statements of him being the asshole some are labeling him.

 

[KAB Cats]

What I have always found interesting about healthcare debates is that very few people understand healthcare holistically. It's more straight forward to understand & research the mechanics of nuclear fusion than the American healthcare system. Yet, many people have strong views on the subject often rooted in party politics and punditry.

What is indisputable is that the American health care system is one of the most expensive in the world, while our life expectancy trails nearly all first world countries. So, it's incredibly difficult to argue for the status quo objectively.

 

[Cold Stout Beer]

His roommate in Hawaii was on Jesse Watters and said he introduced him to the book written by the Unabomber by suggesting they read it in a book club.

Two doofus liberals reading radical garbage at a book club and one decided to be like the unabomber.

What a world.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

What I have always found interesting about healthcare debates is that very few people understand healthcare holistically. It's more straight forward to understand & research the mechanics of nuclear fusion than the American healthcare system. Yet, many people have strong views on the subject often rooted in party politics and punditry.

What is indisputable is that the American health care system is one of the most expensive in the world, while our life expectancy trails nearly all first world countries. So, it's incredibly difficult to argue for the status quo objectively.

I'd be curious to know what the US life expectancy would be without two things that seem to hit America more than most other developed countries: 1. our opioid and drug epidemic and 2. inner city violence and poverty. Not saying we can just fully excuse these, they are problems, and the drug crisis can certainly hit any one of our families... But, something tells me that people living in Vermont and not on Fentanyl are living just fine.

Of course our obesity rates are certainly holding us back. That has to be addressed.

 

[Get Bucket$]

What is indisputable is that the American health care system is one of the most expensive in the world, while our life expectancy trails nearly all first world countries.

Trails by how much? How does our eating and exercise compare to nearly all first world countries? Honest questions, I don’t know.